Brushless Motor Forum v4.0

[BJMFH1.01]

Originally posted by k_sw31
Today my hacker competition arrived.

I have had a lot of homework so it has not yet been setup. Tomorrow I should be able to get it up and running, but I need some help.

I will be running it in a T3 with 6 cells and a basic 5300, in the standard forward/brake setting.

I would like to know which timing mode, Switching Frequency and current limit that is best for the basic.

Thanks

I just went with what the manual said for running 2 pole BL motors. I left the timing, frequency and current limit alone. The only thing you might want to change would be the current limiter from 30 amps to 60 amps. You won't get any more top speed but your acceleration will be much better.

I also run a Hacker Competition in my T3. I don't know if it's a combination of restricted airflow thanks to the body or the larger tires, but things run alot hotter than in my TC3. I didn't need a fan when the controller was installed in my touring car.

You'll definately want to stop by Radio Shack and pick up a 12 volt CPU fan for your truck. I had my motor geared at 18/87 and the controller was shutting down. Ever since I installed the fan, I can gear higher and run back to back battery packs.

[k_sw31]

Well, luckily I had enough time to get everything all soldered up after my cross country meet. I went in and had dinner, and then came out and ran a pack. I ran as BJMFH suggested, stock everything, and the 30 amp limiter on.

Here is what I was running:

RC10 T3
JR XR3i radio
Sanyo 3000 hv's
Hacker master competition esc
lehner basic 5300
18/90 gearing....final drive ratio=12:1

Well, just so ya know, I was running in the dark, only with lights off my house, so it was hard to get a rough speed estimation and what not. I did notice from a dead start, it sorta bogged a little when the battery pack was 1/2 used, but its nothing I am really concerned about...for my uses anyways. With the 30 amp limiter on, the acceleration seemed a little less than a low turn mod, no wheelies, but very smooth throughout the entire power band. I think top speed was around 40 mph, its hard to tell because it was dark out.

I'd estimate my run time to be 7-9 minutes, but my pack was not fully charged to begin with (had been in storage with a charge on it, I just threw it on the charger).

Tomorrow I'll try a few things, first I'll try the 60 amp limit, and then unlimited (or whatever the next option up from 60 is). Then I'll try it out on my backyard track.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. :)

[NIC]

To vad:

It really comes down to how twitchy and technical your off-road track is. "Mr.Constructor" and I haven´t seen the off-road track that you are planing on using your equipment on. Maybe there isn´t a long smooth straight were you can reach that high speeds?

On the track were I run you will only reach speeds about 60-65 km/h because of the very technical layout. My car is TOOO fast even with 13T on that track, I would be better off using a B50 13S with 2800 rpms/V to get a little more torque and let it rev out on the straight. The torque with the 11S is enough as it is, far better then any nitro, but anyways it would suit that track better.

I also use my car for fooling around nearby my house on asfalt with the same type of tires that you have on a Landmax. And here the B50 11S is perfect with 13T gearing. But the 13S would have been the perfect motor for my needs anyways with 13T for offroad and 15T for tarmac bashing. But I wanted to have similar or abit more rpm then a nitro so I could outrun them with the same gearing in every aspect and therefore really impress the nitro guys.

I think your 10XL with 20T pinion in a 8th buggy on a really tight track is a pretty good choise if you can make it fit on the chassie.
But for your Landmax I think you will need higher gearing to get the best joy out of it. But as with the off-road track it all depends on the tracks overall layout or how big the area is were you just bash around.
On a big open parkinglot you will fall asleep and get bored pretty quick with 20T on the Landmax, but put up some cones near eachother (make a tight track) and you will have a blast :) !

Size REALLY matters in this case, you can say ;)

Thanks !

NIC

[vad]

Nic,
Below are some links to the tracks it currently race on, if you can download the videos you will have some what of an idea about the size of the track.


Onroad track racing, see video number 7 large file, but good idea how size of track (http://www.magnumrcracing.com/videopage.htm)

offroad track video (http://daytona-rc.homeip.net/tp1.htm)

[Mr. Constructor]

I watched the track vids, great track anyway !!
Now for your motor choice :
Maybe you will best suited with a good mid sized BL, choose a L version with around 2900 RPM, so youll have enough rpm to keep up with the nitros and enough power to gear a little more torque OR speed, depends on th egears then, not on the motor !!

(viewed at Hacker: B50 8L)
that will really suit this track and all needs you might have, the motor is tunable to handle high speed tracks, as extra torque gives better high gearing(11:1) possibilitys and when geared low, (meaning low from the figures (7:1)) then you´ll have plenty of torque for every situation !!

[gacjr0]

Hello all,
I have a question, sort of a technical challenge. Since brushless motors can't be hooked straight to a regular dyno, can you hook the brushless esc and motor together to a dyno to test it? Can you connect a brushed esc and motor to a dyno? I think you may have to also use a transmitter and receiver to make sure the esc is at full throttle. Different combinations would have to be tried to get a good baseline, all escs/motors being different designs and specs. I don't have the resources to even try it, and I don't recommend you try it unless you know no damage will be done to the dyno/esc/motor. But I am really really curious about this. I believe it may be the only way to get numbers on a dyno to do a comparison. Has anyone done this?
Thanks
Gary

[k_sw31]

Here's a pic of my T3...

http://www.******.net/media/DSC00472.jpg

I set the current limiter to 45 amps, acceleration is MUCH stronger, I may try 60 tomorrow, but right now I am really pleased with performance. :)

[Mr. Constructor]

To gacjr0:

hmm, good idea, but it is not possible for now, as the dynos i know, ALL have the esc built in, the they simulate a run with the car or some settled test datas and then giving you the result. they do not offer a output harness, where you can connect external esc´s or in this case a BL esc ! (this makes sence as the results are greatly influenced by these electronic parts too, one user makes his datas with product A and the other with product B, there are (sometimes Hughe) differences between these ESC´s !!!

There are only 2 ways left:
use a simprop esc (Car version not released yet, but in planning) this one has a computer interface with many readings the electronic gives you, the connection is also offered by simprop same with software (and on top: a small reading unit, that is portable and then you could watch the datas at your home pc (not have to work with a laptop at the race) and the best solution offered is the RC transmitting module, it sends the datas to the measuring unit via Radio waves)

as so far the best solution , as you might not wanna use the industries 3 phase motor checker (these machines will be the same than our dynos, but working with many more figures and are "slightly" bigger. these weight around 2 tons and will cost around 500.000 USD, NOT THAT practicable for us !! (the motor manufacturer for the industry wil have these machines!!)

[NIC]

To vad:

Nice track you´ve got there. After I looked at it, the track doesn´t seem that small at all with some higher-speed sections there also.
I agree with Mr C. here, a 8L or a 9L will be best for that track.

With the 8L you will have very high speeds even with 13T pinion, and the only way to go from a 13T pinion is UP, and that isn´t what you want, the speed will be enough anyway.

With the 9L you will have a little more gearing-options available to you:

With the 13T and a 9L you will have a car with lots of potential in the infield and with easy controllable speeds at the straight sections similar to the just below topnotch nitroengines. A good starting point.

With 14T you will be as fast as the very best nitros. Still with better driveability in the corners.

With 15T you will screem past them at the straights and be just as fast in the slower sections.
And a 9L with 15T will be faster then a 8L with 13T. Here you will be needing aditional cooling also.

With the 9L you can gear higher but with the 8L you are pretty much stuck with 13T.

I also think you should go with the Schulze 18.129. I have that one and I woulden´t ever dream of something less !

When I drove 3 packs with not much cooling down in between, the damn esc shut off in the middle of the third pack :mad: :mad:.
I´m really against mounting coolingfans on top of the esc but I hadn´t any choise here but to mount a 12V fan :mad:.
I bought it because it was the best controller Schulze could offer (except for that BIG 32.170) so I really thought I was safe with that, but in real topnotch racing-situations you HAVE to have a fan even on that one.

Thanks !

NIC

[Miha]

Lehner motors with controllers dyno results:

http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-motoren/d08index.htm

[NMT_RACER_BOY]

w00t!

all bow down to the brushless master miha!

:)

[NIC]

About the motordiagrams:

I have spent HOURS infront of thoose numbers, it can drive you crazy....
I say a new motorline there from Lehner, the 1511-series. It looks like it is a very high reving motor, a 17 turn at around 4500-4600/V under load. I don´t know if it´s usuable in a car-class though.
And the BASIC XL 85 :eek: hm......:).

NIC

[NIC]

No not an XL, wrong from me, just a regular BASIC.
But still.......

[Miha]

About those diagrams. You have to understand the basic theories behing motor masses, voltages, Kv, Ri, I0, etc. Then it's childs play. You can see that smaller lowerwind motors work at very good efficiencies at higher voltages.

Well, NIC and other mentioned this 32.170 controller. Yes, it's big and heavy compared to others. But once you think this expensive copper/silicon waffle can control very precisly (for little time) almost a whooping 11.5 horsepower, than it's not so big... ;)

Here a photo from the beast compared to my smallest car controller (Schulze slim 10Ce). :D

[Miha]

Well, if speaking of 32.170 ... I was told if this controller is not enough (for some reasons... :D ) Schulze can stack two of this plates together, giving one pound controller with capability of handling ... you know ;) Some can never have enough controller :p

[Mr. Constructor]

hmm, as for the diagrams:
be careful, they where only read out by a computer programm by using the lmt controller setup input, that might not be the best solution, as nothing under race conditions is simulated, but for a general overviwe, it´s a very good background to work with.
YES, the 32.170 THAT is the ESC at all, very huge but very stable !!
(my first chioce for 4th Monster trucks with 3KW or more electric motors (wich leads me to an idea . . . . ;-) )

I have seen some very good tires on a small hydraulic working platform, these might be the beginning (they´re of a diameter near to 0.5 meters !!!)
very good thinking !!!!
(OK, joke is over, this esc is really good, in any situation, but as nic said : in car conditions not, only in the boat (as Miha might use it or am i not right ??)

[k_sw31]

Well, it turns out my dad bought a garmin etrex gps for deer hunting last weekend! Needless to say, its sitting on my T3 right now.

I have done one run so far, with a mediocre 1900 pack (6 cells) and 17/90 gearing.

Here is the basic setup:
http://www.******.net/media/DSC00468.jpg

Top speed:

http://www.******.net/media/DSC00474.jpg
:)

[k_sw31]

I just tryed 7 cells, with the same 12:1 ratio.

Next I am going to try 6 cells on 10.8:1 (20/90), and then 7! :)

http://www.******.net/media/DSC00477.jpg
^^ 7cells, 12:1 FDR.

[[HPI]RS4SS]

Anyone has a video on a Brushless on a On Road car??

[gacjr0]

thanks Miha!

[OptimaMan]

Alright guys... I just bought a Garmin etrex whatever (the yellow one). I should be getting it soon - in about a week and I'll prove to you my speeds too!

The other day I bought a Bushnell radar gun, but my emaxx ran into it and smashed it!!!!!!!!! It was going 37 mph with 15/72 pinion/spur in my emaxx with 12 cells and basic 5300. With this gearing, the rpm of the motor is approximately 49,000.

OptimaMan

[OptimaMan]

43.4 mph with emaxx. 15/72 gearing, 12 cells, Lehner 1920 motor.

[yf22k]

Originally posted by OptimaMan
Alright guys... I just bought a Garmin etrex whatever (the yellow one). I should be getting it soon - in about a week and I'll prove to you my speeds too!

The other day I bought a Bushnell radar gun, but my emaxx ran into it and smashed it!!!!!!!!! It was going 37 mph with 15/72 pinion/spur in my emaxx with 12 cells and basic 5300. With this gearing, the rpm of the motor is approximately 49,000.

OptimaMan

hey how much was that gps device? and where did you get it?

Thanks,
Keith

[k_sw31]

Well, something annoying has happend....I stripped one of the motor mounting holes a long time ago, and I stripped another a few days ago on the second set.

BJMFH- If I remember correctly, you said a few pages back you destroyed your basic awhile ago, or something to where its not working right? Do you think I could buy the mounting plate off of you? email me at k_sw31@hotmail.com

I also have brain stormed a few ideas...

1) Pull apart the basic, take the mounting plate off and retap the holes for lager, beefier screws, the drawback to this is I have to drill out the motor plates on my cars.

2) OR...(if anyone who has pulled their basic apart can help me...) Could I drill/tap new mounting holes for motor screws?

3) Lastly, I could make a bracket that screws into my remaining two holes, countersink screws into the bracket for mounting on to the basic, and have holes in the bracket for the motor screws.

Does anyone have any other possible ideas, I REALLY want to avoid sending my motor back...it doesn't seem like engineering a fix would be too hard?

Any advice is appriciated. :)

[Mr. Constructor]

please do NOT even try the 2nd one !!
(the drilling will get small debris into the winding, that will destroy the motor really fast !!

the first one is not practicable enough, the holes will be down really fast too !!

the 3rd one is the best solution, as the power is transferred, the motor was better secured to the holder and the heat could be better cooled down, as you might get some ***** into the side that faces the motor holder.
try this solution, or :
use more screws to set your motor in, mine was striped out really fast too, use at least all 4 holes, will avoid the problem too (or it will occur even later)

(maybe you should look around at GM racing, they made a motor adapter for their BL Motors (wich have the same mounting hole diameter and width (16 mm or 19 mm and M2.5 (or even M3, doesn´t matter, both are available from GM !!)
Maybe this helped you a bit ??

[k_sw31]

Eh, I'm not sure if you picked it up, but, for the second I meant drill/tap new holes once the motor face is off.

But, I guess you are right, it seems best to do the third solution.

But, BJMFH (a really great guy) is sending me his basic, he beleives something is catching in it, so maybe I'll pull it apart and see what is up...

But drilling extra holes in my motor plate might be a good idea...

[OptimaMan]

I got the GPS on ebay for less than a hundred bucks brand new. Way better than radar gun.

Regarding the basic 5300 motor that is stripped: that is the one beef I have with Lehner - the screw mounts are really short where as in Hacker motors they're 6 mm long. That's why I've always said that for 2wd buggies or trucks (or rear mounted motors), I said Hacker motors are better. Where it's protected such as in 4wd sedans and buggies and monster trucks, Lehner motors are more powerful.

I think the best thing to do is remove the face plate and drill new holes - like 6 more! The lehner motors that are not the basic line have a ton of holes (I suppose they know we'll strip them or something).

-OptimaMan

[Bird_of_Fire]

Quick question about gearing - I just got a TC3 and the spur is the standard 72T. How should I gear it for use with a 5300 Lehner/7018 controller for 6 cells? 7 cells? I just installed a couple of PC fans as well, one on top of the controller, and one next to the motor (along with the blue heatsink) to keep things from getting too warm. Right now I'm using a 17T and it seems kind of undergeared, but I'm a little scared to go any bigger. Any suggestions? :confused:

[crono man]

OMG i just noticed that theres a brushless motor forum!!(i know i know i dont come around here very often:o )

Do you guys think this thread had anything to do with it??

[OptimaMan]

ksw31: I just took apart a Basic 4200 because there was something catching in it too. The motor face plate is screwed and also glued on so it's kinda tough to remove but possible. First clamp the motor can and turn the face plate counterclockwise when looking down at the face of the motor (standard screw). To turn the face plate, mount the motor into a spare aluminum plate or something so there is something to grab. Make sure the screws aren't too deep or else you'll cut those internal wires really quickly and make the motor useless. If you have trouble with it, post here and I'll email you.

-OptimaMan

[yf22k]

Hey Optimaman,

I have a 5300 that i've been wanting to open up to clean. I'm afraid to break something so can u e-mail me some tips. Also once its opened, do you have to glue it again once screwed back together?
Thanks,
Keith

[DualBL]

yf22k, when you clamp the can, be sure not to use to much pressure, as the can can easily be crushed.
just use some non-slip padding of some sort.

I've heard of people using a spur gear to screw onto the can to get a grip to turn it.

be sure whatever you use, to use ALL 4 holes, cause they're abit shallow, and may strip, if you only use 2 screws.

once you open it, and do what you need, just run some BLUE loctite on the threads, and firmly screw it back together.

shouldn't have a hard time, just like Optima said, don't screw to far into the holes.

-Nick

[yf22k]

thanks DualBL

I'm researching my next brushless setup and it seems no one sells lehner's 1920 series anymore. I can't fing it anywhere. I'm looking for a lower turn 1920. I'd get a 1925 but they're a little too long for my cars.

-Keith

[k_sw31]

Well, before it was posted, I already pulled my basic apart. I found out the magnet was slipping on my armature, so I took care of that with some jb weld.

On another note, BJMFH sent me his binding basic, it turns out there was a chip out of his armature, and was causing the binding.

[yf22k]

Yay i finally got my motor open. Thanks DualBL. it was a little dusty inside but the magnet was free of scratches or nicks. One thing i did notice. Probably from when i screwed my motor screws in too far, 2 strands of wire were split and a little burned. It runs fine still but does anyone see any potential problems? or suggestions.

I also noticed that one of the three motor leads is very loose where i bent it to so it fits my car better. I think it may have disconnected because i put it back in my car and it just stutters. what should i do? would it be ok to cut open the shrink wrap and solder it?

Thanks,
Keith

[OptimaMan]

YF22K: You can still get the 1920 series motors. But you'll have to special order it. chris at fine design can get them. Also, you'll be getting them in 4 mm (or was it 5?) pinion gear shafts so you'll need to special order pinion gears too.

Regarding the basic motor that stutters - looks like you might have cut off just too many wires. Getting those wires cut inside would definitely lead to less power handling. If the wrong or enough wires get cut, the motor won't work anymore. Looks like your 5300 might be outta commission - but keep it for spare parts! If you rotor is in good shape, you might just want to keep it or sell it off on ebay or something. If the front plate isn't stripped, you could probably get a few bucks for that on ebay too!

-OptimaMan

[yf22k]

well its only 2 strands inside the can but that's not the problem Its the motor leads that come out of the can. One of them is broken. I'm wondering if i should just solder it back on. If i keep the lead straight it still runs fine but if its bent, it wont' connect and the car will just stutter

[Mr. Constructor]

Do NOT even try to resolder them, the copper wires are insulated with some see-through paint (that is very flexible) and this paint is heat resistant (even up to 330 ° C !! (above the copper and the full armature will be broken, as the heat is too much !!

If you have broken a wire on your motor (esp the basic ones) hey´re useless !!!
Sorry to say it that hard, but there are ways to get it running, but these are not safe for your car and other people around, so i will not recommend them !!
(by the way, these "breaking" part storys are always lehner, did you notice that, mine was also broken, same thing than many others too, the magnet is too breaky, then some parts will be losened up, the motor is dead, and even if you pull them out, the brutal brake during driving (caused by the splitters will def. destroy some windings or get them shortened)

So if these Motors are worn in any case that has to do with the wiring please do yourself a favor and throw them away !! Imagine running your car on a street, the car was doing 40 Miles + and then the motor fails, there might be people hurt !! (and your wallet will be damaged too, as the car "only" hits some hard material)

Sorry for you, that was the reason for me to go away from LMT and only use Hackers, i haven´t had a problem yet !!

On mine the strands where also a little black and seems to be fairly good, the motor was pulling a LOT more amps, my esc was not melted, but it was close, this might occur any time, in some weeks ore some hours, do not use it any more (sorry but this is the truth !!)
To Bird_of_Fire:

I the Car is dialed and geared right, you normally will not need a Fan !!
(the propper gearing should around 18-20 Thoothed pinions, this should work, but keep an eye on the heat !!

[yf22k]

hmmm maybe i should start researching hacker instead of getting a 1920 then. what hacker motors compare to the lehner 5300, which are better or lower than it? I know how the lehner number system of motor names goes. I'm just wondering how hacker runs theirs. Also, are hackers sensorless?

Thanks for the info,
Keith

[Mr. Constructor]

Yes the hackers are sensorless, the best thing is the lower price and the better mounting holes, AND a normal 540er mounting hole Motor is also available (the c series)

Comparable to a Basic 5300 are :

B 40 8S (same rpm, little lower Torque, but very low weight !! ideal for 10th cars, i use this series only for 10th !!)

B 40 5L (little more RPM and same torque as the basic, but longer )

B 50 7S very much more torque than basic 5300, but more weight and slightly bigger)

C 40 8 S better mounting due to the same than 540er motors, better cooling due to heatsinks moldet into the housing, weights almost the same than standart motors, 1/8 inch shaft (as all Hackers, only the bigger B 50 series comes with 1/8 on request normally with 5 mm shaft (due to the huge power, it is better to go with 5 mm then)

As you might see, there are plenty models to choose from, a really good decision help will be if i knew your Car and other datas, then i could give you a more detailed answer !!

[yf22k]

Well i want to try to keep the speed that i have with my 5300 but want a little more torque. I'll be running with 6-12 cells. If the motor can't handle more than 6 that's ok because i'll mostly run wtih 6.

I'll be running with 6 cells in a 1/5th motorcycle, and a 1/10th tamiya f201. Gearing will be adjusted once i get the motor.

I'll be running 6 cells and once in a while if i feel like going wild 12 in a tamiya tv evolution II.

The basic 5300 gives me performance that satisfies me but i just wish i could get a little more torque on 6 cells. The performance is pretty much the same for all 3 vehicles.

Now that i think about it, I like Hacker's C4 motor designs better than lehner's. How flexible and durable are the 3 motor leads compared to lehner's? I only bent the lehner wires 3 times and 1 has already broken. I have no need to bend them anymore though because i have rearranged the electronic positions on all of my vehicles.

How wide is the diameter of the c40's with the heatsinks compared to a standard 540 motor? The motor length needs to be 50mm or less to fit in my vehicles. I'm checking out hacker's website but they don't seem to have much on dimensions for their motors. I read somewhere that the 3 motor leads need to be soldered directly to the speed control. Is this true? or can i use gold connectors like the lehners.

Would it be ok to use my schulze 18.61 with a hacker c4 series motor? I will eventually get a hacker controller probably. I'm just wondering how much current a c4 series can draw.

One last question(for this post): where can i find hacker products cheapest?

Thanks,
Keith

[DualBL]

Mr. Constructor:

Hacker B50 8s

http://www.dualbl.com/pics/tc3/death3.jpg

:(

-Nick

[OptimaMan]

Dual BL: regarding that 8s, how many cells were you using when the motor failed? What RPM was it at (approx?).

Regarding a motor like 5300 but from Hacker.... For 6 cell, get the C40 series motors. I had a C40 6 turn and it blew away the Lehner 5300. Not even close when it came to power!!! My XXX-S geared 23/90 had the same top speed as the Hacker C40 6 geared 18/90. But the Hacker had way more acceleration due to lower gearing and lighter rotor weight. Awesome motor... but not quite as awesome as Lehner 1920 5 turn...

-OptimaMan

[k_sw31]

OptimaMan-

I have had my eye on a C40 motor for a little while, I think if I were to buy another motor that would be it.

I am not sure which turn to get though, I have narrowed it down to a 9t through a 6t...

Basically, I want more speed than a 5300 (about 5mph more on 6 cells), a bit more torque, not insane torque though, and I want similar run times; its fine if it drops off by 2 minutes or so though.

I know the 6t would denfinatly out gun the lehner, but, I am afraid it will just drain the juice real fast, which would be a bummer. Please let me know on C40s turn recommendations...

PS, It would be run in 1/10th touring cars, stadium trucks and buggies, mostly on 6 cells.

[DualBL]

OptimaMan, when the rotor blew, it was spinning around 45k or less RPM...

-Nick

[RrR]

Originally posted by DualBL
OptimaMan, when the rotor blew, it was spinning around 45k or less RPM...

-Nick You have trader feed back....

[yf22k]

ok I think i have my eyes set on a c40. Not sure between a 6 or 7 turn though.
How long is the c40 and what's its diameter?

Also will it run ok using a schulze 18.61 controller. Can the motor leads use the gold bullet connectors associated with the lehner motors or does it have to be directly soldered to the controller?

thanks,
Keith

[OptimaMan]

The C40 has motor leads that you need to solder connectors to or solder directly to. The 6 turn will give you plenty of run time if you gear appropriately. When I used to race my XXX-S graphite with 3300 batteries, under full race conditions, I would get 8 minutes of run time easily. It was geared 15/90 though which was more than fast enough for me. Whatever motor you get, gearing is the key. The motor probably only draws 4 amps with no load and by gearing really low, you'll only draw on average probably 15-20 amps. Everything will run nice and cool too. I don't think you'll be disappointed with either a 7 or a 6 turn. I have heard some people blowing their controllers with the 6 turn though. Perhaps you'll be safer with the 7 turn and for insane speed runs you can go up to maybe 10 cells (you DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO RUN the 6 TURN WITH MORE THAN 8 CELLS! Probably blow up the motor!)

Like I've said in earlier posts, I think it's better to use higher voltages and lower amperage to power cars. My next experiment is to run my XXX-S with 11.1 volt lithium poly packs. I got 5 of them so in parallel, they capacity is 7,500 mah at 11.1 volts!!!!!

-OptimaMan

[OptimaMan]

Oh, the c40 is 540 sized, the motor mounts are standard 540 sized, and nice feature is that the motor mount screws can be up to 6 mm long! The motor is about the same or maybe 1mm longer than a standard 540 motor.

However, the diameter is misleading due to the cooling fins. The actual motor diameter is probably only about 1.0 inch so that puts this motor more on par with the Lehner 1520 series or b40 series motors. It has plenty of torque for buggies and sedans, but I don't think this motor is the motor of choice for monster trucks or any other vehicle that weigh in at over 5 pounds.

-OptimaMan

[yf22k]

optimaman,
You've got me hooked lol. I'll probalby go for a 6 turn because i pobalby wont' run with more than 6 cells if it runs as well as you say it does.

Would it be possible for you to give me a rough estimate of the length of the c40 in mm's? You said its about the length of a standard 540 motor do you mean something like the size of a speed gems motor or tamiya's 540 motors?

I guess i'll keep using my schulze 18.61 for a while because it handles 61 continuous amps and i think 80 peak or soemthing like that.

One last thing, where can i buy one cheapest?

Thanks,
Keith

[k_sw31]

Thanks for the info optimaman, I'll probably go with the 7s, now lets just let christmas come....:D

Or atleast wait a little while, I am buying a T4 next probably...

[RrR]

Originally posted by DualBL
OptimaMan, when the rotor blew, it was spinning around 45k or less RPM...

-Nick that will work and you have mail...

[DualBL]

Originally posted by RrR
that will work and you have mail...

thnx, can I get a new reply retracting your previous post?
thanks again
-Nick

[Mr. Constructor]

Here is the length for the C 40 S version:
Lenght: 53 mm
diameter:35,8mm
Shaft: 3,17 mm (1/8 inch)
weight: 147 gramms
for the C 40 L:
Length: 63 mm
diameter: 35,8 mm
Shaft: 3,17 mm (1/8 inch)
weight: 187 gramms

as for the Solder on these wires, use a 3.5 mm gold plug (same as lehner) to solder it directly to the wire, then youßll have no problem at all, the bending should not be that great, as the wire is the same thing than the basic, but normally it will withstand some bindings, but to be safe, keep it on a minimum.

As for the price here in germany i could only give you a good starting point:
its : 170 Euro for the S version and 180 for the L version, the L is for trucks up to 4.5 pounds, the s for 10th cars (2wd or 4wd, doesn´t matter until you get the power really to the ground ;-) )

To Dual BL:

OH **** DAMN, that pic was not nice !!
(it´s really hard to see, that much money going "poof" !!)
(what conditions have you had, before this "failure" occured ?? in wich car, setup, etc)
(The magnets are really sort of little "broky", when pushed too hard, my 1520 was even broken this way, it was way over heated in my case, the gear was jammed, so my background is clear, and this will not ever happen again, but what´s with your´s ??)

[DualBL]

well, that particular motor was in my Rustler for about 2 weeks, doing hard jumping and such.
but I remember, the 2nd to last time I ran it, I landed on the motor/mount hard. then I charged another batt, and ran it all the way through. then, took the motor out, put in my tc3, and hooked it up, and gave it some throttle w/ the wheels off the ground, and it jerked the car violently.
i was in shock...

toor it apart, and found that the rotor had split, and ripped the windings apart inside...

now, I can get it replaced by hacker for the low low price of $160! :D ... :rolleyes:

hacker still has it, but I don't know if I just wanna forget about it, or get another one.
cause I still have a good one in my rustler right now, and also a 3rd one, that has a bad bearing, which hacker told me would be $10 to replace.
so most likely, I'm gonna send the 3rd one in, get it fixed, and just forget about the 1st one.

then I'll have 2 Good B50 8s's for sale on ebay :)

-Nick

(ps, hope you understood all of that)

[k_sw31]

hey guys check my T3 out....

http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=17232

:)

[anothermbdusted]

dude that thing hauls freaking AZZ way sweet man i like it

[k_sw31]

I found a place online that has FAUP cells pretty fairly priced... 4.15$ a cell. I may order some, say 10 or so.

However, since the cells are a little shorter, and much narrower than a sub c cell, how should I build the packs?

[k_sw31]

Oh wait, actually, never mind. They have assembled packs for 5.10$ a cell.

I may order these tonight, I'm not sure. Either that or I will hold off till christmas.

[k_sw31]

On another note, after about a week I got a reply from RRH...asking about their new brushless motors.

Here's the reply...

Hello,



Yes we are working on new brushless systems. But it will be some time before we can release them. As you know product development and production time is not an overnight process. We do plan to have similar motors to the Basic 5300 and the price will be much more affordable. Probably in the $75 dollar range. But I do not know for sure yet. I’m sure it will be late Spring before they will be available!



Thanks for your interest…

Donnie

Rum Runner Hobbies

hmmm, 75$!!! A little more than a hot modified! Can't wait.

[RCmaniac324]

$75!!!!!! I sure can't wait for them to release those things...that could easily get even more people into brushless, with a motor cost THAT low.

Also, would you mind passing the link to that FAUP site along? I too am thinking of buying an assembled 8 cell pack of them to put in my B4 speed-demon. :D I found this site that sells FAUPs also in assembled packs. Just on the "cell type" pull-down, select "1950mAh NiMh", and that will be the FAUPs....their prices are similar to what your site sells them for too.

http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_battlepack_build.html

[k_sw31]

http://www.battlepack.com/packs.asp

and for the pack type select "flat" (side by side configuration).

:)

[RCmaniac324]

Thanx. I just found that site too last night. One question though: Do you have any idea what they use to assemble the side-by-side packs (bars, copper braid, sections of wire, etc.)??? I ask b/c my B4 will only fit the packs well if they use bars or something about the same size.

[NIC]

To RCmaniac324:

The FAUP:s will work great in your B4. With 8 of those you will get less weight (about 80 grams or 2,8 oz), more speed and less amp draw, due to a higher turn motor. A great package, with easy controllable speed and handling and little stress on the components.

The FAUP:s is a less powerfull cell than the GP:s, but using them in the right set-up they will outperform the GP:s in handling and speed.

You have found a great set-up there.
Wich motor ?

NIC

[RCmaniac324]

Yes, I am aware of these great benefits of the FAUPs (lighter, faster, lower CG, etc). That's why I want to get a pack of them. :) That and the fact that 8 of them will fit in the 6 cell tray of my B4 w/o having to make a hump pack, which would make me have to modify the battery strap.

I am going to be running the 8 FAUPs in my B4 with a Lehner Basic 5300 geared at a total of about 8.5 or 9:1. I have mounted a small 12V computer fan half-way over the controller and half-way over one side of the battery, so as to cool both, and it's been working great. Let me now if there are any changes I should make to my setup before running the FAUPs, or if it is fine. :)

[NIC]

To RCmaniac324:

Yes one thing :) ..........................Start out with LOWER gearing :eek: :eek: ! Start around 11:1 (19/81) and work your way up. Remember you have 50 000 rpms in your hands now with 8 cells.

NIC

[RCmaniac324]

Yea, I was gonna do my first few runs with my 20T pinion to make sure everything runs fine and get used to the extra power, then I would have started experimenting with gearing up.

Right now I am running 8.5:1 with 6 cells and I'm not having any problems....with the added fan, everything stays cool enough to touch indefinitely, and I get about 10-15 min. of runtime out of a 3000 pack...maybe I'm just lucky and have everything set up perfectly to be able to run this gearing?:confused:

[k_sw31]

Since you are in a buggy, 8-9:1 is fine. I run a 10:1 ratio (21/81 primary) on 6 cells with my basic in my B4. Speeds of around upper 30s low 40s, and everything runs coooooool. The motor is bairly warm to the touch. Talk about an efficient tranny! Not to mention, I have torque to spare, I am sure I could run a 23 tooth (9:1 ratio) or even lower with out a problem. :)

[NIC]

RCmaniac324 and K_sw31,

I was thinking about the speed and runtime with the FAUP:s when I recomended 19T pinion to start with.
Going from 6 to 8 cells is a HUGE leap forward, as a matter of fact 33 %. So for not messing up too much of the driving at the track I thought It would be good to stay with about the same topspeed that 6 cells and 25T (8,42:1) give.
A 33% decrease in in ratio means around 11,2:1, so 11,08 with the 19T should be a good choise.
Then use the EXTRA punch and overall lightness to make up time in and out of corners.
I´m also not that sure if it will make runtime with 8,5 or 9:1, and the speed will be nuts.
But only real tests will give the right answers.
I think though you will be REALLY happy with your cells.
We will see what the Li-poly batteries can give us, untill then FAUP:s works great for lighter loads.

NIC

[RCmaniac324]

k_sw31 --> Nice...I run a 25/81 primary ratio in my B4 with the Basic. With the addition of the small computer fan, everything stays lukewarm; I can touch the controller indefinitely. I have to agree with you on the efficient tranny comment. This thing puts the power to the ground with next to no noticeable loss! I love it. I'm hitting 45-48MPH with mine. I'm also running slightly taller tires: the proline Dirt Hawg I and IIIs. Great all terrain tire. :)

NIC --> Thanks for suggesting it thinking of that, but I don't race at a track yet, though I hope too sometime soon. So, experimenting with the higher gearing shouldn't be too bad....especially since I'm a speed freak at heart. :D :p For casual driving though I'd either gear down or lower the top-end speed using the Positive throttle ATV adjustment on my radio. Also, in regards to runtime, I'm making about 12-15 minutes of hard driving in the street on a single 3000mAh pack. So, I figure expecting 8-10 minutes out of the FAUPs wouldn't be unreasonable, considering they have about 2/3 the capacity of my current pack. Thanks for your help though. Now all I need is about $40 to buy the pack. :p

[Mr. Constructor]

Hm . . . .
I just thought of some other people trying or having made a conversion to BL in th ebig scale class (5th and 6th even maybe 4th??)

By the way, here is my latest project (started maybe 2,5 years ago, not yet thetime to complete it, but now i had the time . . . .

only 6 kgs ready and only 12 cells 6 pole motor, sensored !! esc (an older type that was used maybe 5 years ago or elder, but still hadn´t had the time to complete the car, the power is still enough even in todays power days !!

as you see, there is a very light "spaceframe" construction, everything is made out of special tough plastic (Trademark: Delrin)

and the thing you might not see, but that thing itself was the starting Shot for this Car: the fully functional steel vented disk brakes on the front wheels (back wheels might be covered too, but only after some testing as they´re not really cheap those brake kits !!)

Enyoy it !!
(hopefully there are some others out there with similar conversions from big scale, it´s rel. cheap (comp. to 8th maybe the same costs) and it really is a tech piece !!)

[Mr. Constructor]

Compared to a Schumacher Fireblade EVO 2 (10th buggy class)

[Mr. Constructor]

take a small peak under the hood:
front side first:

[Mr. Constructor]

And now the aft section:

See ya !!

[k_sw31]

Wow! :eek:

That is a peice of art.

Any chance you could get a video of that sucker?

[Mr. Constructor]

hm, not in the near future, as my receiver was still not delivered and the weather is not that good outside any more here in germany !!
(so at the worst case i´ll have to wait until next spring or even till summer to vid it, the test run in my house isn´t that big killer vid !! ;-) )

So i have to wait for the receiver first, maybe this is done this weekend, as a fair is in Hamburg/germany, so i might get the part there too, then I´ll have to wait for good weather to race this one (I´m really looking forward to it too, as the Car seems to be very good during the small home tests and every other test was done with ease too, seems to be pretty good Car.

Now the winter season (and though the constructing season has started here, I have some plkans yet, some Parts are still ordered, nothing to really show to anyone yet, nothing built, only some scetches and some CAD Drawings.

You´ll get the Vid as soon as i could make it (promised!!)

see ya !!
(and another one for watering your mouth ;-) )

[HiAmplidude]

Awesome!

[Kenny T]

I'm very pleased with the Novak brushless system now, got to fully test it today at a open space. Performed very well and nice looong runtimes. :D

One problem I have is that I don't notice a difference between SS and Sportman modes.

[NIC]

Hello everyone !

I have just done some short testing with the new Schulze U-force 75.
My first impressions are that it is really smooth with HUGE breaks, but the initial trottle is to high (you can´t crawl around or drive really slow). The throttle comes on at around 10%. This can maybe be fixed with some tweeks but this is the "standard" when you first install it.
I´m going to test it more tomorrow. I will let you all know how it performs.

NIC

[yf22k]

have you tried it with a brushed motor yet? also how much did it cost and where did you buy it?

-Keith

[NIC]

Why would I want to test it with a brushed .........;) :) !!!!
I payed around 270 Euros for it with the PC-connection.
I haven´t tried the PC-con. yet but it has some cool things that you can program, like rpm limit, from 5000 to 126000 and the thing I want to change; the initialtrottle (0-50%).
The rpm-limit could be good when you race with your friends to have the same rpm that they have and just let the drivingskills be the differens between winning and.....not winning.
And you could use it almost as a gearratio option and limit the topspeed of the car and make it more suitable for a specific track.

Just some thoughts. Real tests will give correct answers.

NIC

[Miha]

NIC, that is great to hear.

The thing that confuses me, that there are no instructions on Schulze site for U-force. I tought it is still not out yet.

Time to write Schulze :)

[NIC]

Hello !

I have done some real tests now with the U-force 75. The initaltrottle that I didn´t like is actually no big deal. When I tested it just indoors in my home it felt abit to fast due to the lack of space, but at a track it doesn´t matter, you will never ever go that slow anyway.
It actually feels alot like my Tekin G9 supersonic. That esc doesn´t have that really fine crawling caracteristics (sp?) like the top of the line LRP:s for example.
As for the temp of the esc, it didn´t break a sweat, you coulden´t feel any heat at all, good.
I drove it in the TF-2 with the trusty old B40 6L with 8 FAUP:s and 7,47:1.

The pros. of the esc is that it has awesome breaks. I drive it at 90% with my radio, cause 100% breaks is just like having the drivetrain completely locked.
It also looks like a esc "should" look with a plastic case and a white type of rubber/silicone seal around the BIG heatsink.
It also has removeable motorwires wich I like, wich are topmounted.
The cons. is that the lead to the receiver isn´t that long ( 10cm or 4 inces), that maybe can make the installation abit harder in some cars. It is a easy fixed "problem", but anyways.

There is no reason to stay with a regular brushed system anymore (for you guys who consider a bl-setup).
This controller and a Hacker C40S or L, because those motors are a direct drop-in, is better than anything the brushed systems can offer. And if you don´t like the bl-motors for some reason you can use this controller with your brushed motors because it can handle them too with NO motorlimit :eek: :) !

NIC

[Miha]

Great little report NIC. Makes me want Uforce even tough I don't have a car to try. :D

Should work also in boats very well. If only heatsink could be replacable so you can install watercooled heat sink instead ;)

[NIC]

Miha, the controller HAS a boat mode also :) !

A quote from the manual:

"If the neutral point is higher then 1.36ms, then the u-force works in Boat mode. In this mode the break is disabled, and full- trottle point is set to neutral point +0.6ms".

Those neutralpoints can be adjusted with the u-soft program along with theese parameters:

FullThrottle position 1.3...2.5ms
Fullbreak position 0.8...1.5ms
Deadstick travel forward 3...255us
Deadstick travelreverse 3...255us
Initial throttle...0-50%
Automatic break (off/initial percentage) 0-100%
Softstart time trottle (time from 0-100% trottle) 66ms...16.7s
Softstart time break (time from stop to full break) 66...16.7s
Low voltage limit 5.3...12V
Switching frequency 8,16,32 kHz
Rotational speed 5000...126000 rpm
Motor timing level 1,2,3,4
Breaklevel to switch to reverse gear 10...95% of full break
Delaytime to switch to reverse gear 66ms...5s
Softstart time to reverse gear (0-100%) 66ms...16.7
Current limit (fixed) 67A resp. 100A

NIC

[Miha]

Thanks NIC very much, I appreciate it a lot.

I read that the controller has boat mode also, but the thing is this baby needs to be water cooled in the boat no matter what. At least where I plan to use it.

That is a nice list of programming options. I especially like extremly wide ranges ...
Limit it to 5000 rpm, sofstart throttle on 16.7s and enjoy the easy ride. :D I wonder how much heat it would produce at these extreme settings.

[alana07]

hi NIC,
is there any cogging at the initial acceleration phase when u tested the u-force 75? is it necessary to get the PC connection in order to adjust the various parameters? will u be testing the u-force with brushed motors as well? any feedback will be appreciated, thanks.


alan

[modular_mustang]

I just finished building my new FT TC3 with a Novak SS BL system. After dealing with some of the ESC programing, I finally unleashed this beast. I was just using Orion V-MAXX packs out of my E-MAXX for setup and testing, and she was screaming. I'm running 22/72 pin and spur right now, which was suggested to me for run-time. I have 7 GP3300 mached cells that I've jigged already, but I can't imagine using all 7. The only issue I have ran into is my Radio settings. I'm using a Futaba 3PDF and have to back the throttle trim all the way to 60 just to keep in in nuetral. I'm not sure what I need to do to correct this. Any help would be appreciated seeing as I'm new to electric touring (nitro guy). I think I might be a setting on the ESC that I don't have right.

[NIC]

Alan, cogging to me sounds like big "chunks" of throttle pulses and I woulden´t use that word to describe the throttle feeling of my two Schulze:s (18.129 and U-force).
What you will hear and feel is tiny "tick, tick, ticks" the first carlenght if you try to CRAWL away. If your car is standing still and you pull full throttle it will just take of.
Depending of your gearing those small pulses can be felt more or less. If you are geared REALLY high (meaning INSANE) the pulses before the cars start rolling can be felt more. And so with low gearing you will not even detect it.
I think that pretty much all controllers does this the very first revs of a motor to detect were the armature is.

Don´t let that small "thing" keeping you from getting a bl-setup.
It´s such a tiny thing, and like I said you will only feel it when you from a standstill tries to just do some very precice movement. When you are up and running with your bl-esc you will not notice a differens between a bl-esc (my Schulzes anyway) and a top of the line brushed esc.

The factorysettings with the U-force is good as it is, so you will not need the PC-program.

I haven´t tried it with a brushed motor, you have to line up the wireing abit different with a brushed, and I don´t want to waste one more hour on a brushed motor. Besides I think the com. must be cut and the brushes replaced on the two motors I have left. I have gave all my other motors to the kids around my block.

NIC

[alana07]

hi NIC,
thanks for the feedback. the u-force has just landed here in singapore, but i think i'll be scared to buy 1 just yet though!!! anyway thanks again. and keep those feedbacks coming!!!

alan.

[yf22k]

is anyone selling the u-force in the US?

[NIC]

Hello !

New small test. Again with the U-force. Indoors at a 400m track and field track.

10 FAUP:s, 7,47:1, B406L, 61mm tires.

It did the 60 meters with flying start in 2,31 seconds (measured with speedtrap). Nothing special really, "only" 93.5 km/h or 58.1 mph. I thought it was actually slower then that, it felt so anyway. You are getting abit used to the speeds now I guess.
So I was abit surprised that it actually was that fast, so I counted backwards to see what how much the motor was spinning.

The result was 60748 rpm:s :eek:, pretty damn good I think !

It´s good considering the motor has a 5000 rpm/V. So at 12 Volts, it should be spinning at 60000. That means that the cells put out more then 1,2 Volts per cell under this load.

This test shows maybe the performance of the motor and batteries more then the esc.
The U-force by the way didn´t however bother that much with this set-up either. It was a little bit varm, just so you could feel it. The amp-draw coulden´t have been that high because of the gentle pull of the throttle (50-60 meters of acceleration).
The awesome breaks however of the U-force did come in handy because I had to stop within 30 meters.

I can´t wait to gear it up more, but I have to wait for the summer (at least 4 months), because the indoorarena can´t handle much higher speeds :mad: ;) !

NIC

[k_sw31]

NIC- Sounds awesome!

Can you try a direct sidebyside comparison of FAUPs vs full sub c cells? I'm curious if there is any difference between the capability of the smaller FAUP cells....I'm not sure if they can deliver as much current as sub c cells.

[NIC]

k_sw31, you could get some info here, it´s abit old but anyways:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=47559&perpage=15&highlight=hr4/5&pagenumber=3

I don´t have any sofisticated equipment for testing different cells, I only test them in my cars.
What I DO know is that they give enough amps for 1/10 sedans and similar size and weight cars. And I get better performace in every aspect in my cars using them.
The airplane dealer who I bought them from said they can handle 45 A continious with short bursts at 70 A for alot of discharges.
That was what made me try a pack.

For example:
You could most certainly pull out 800 hp from
a Subaru 2 litre Turbo-engine for a few seconds before it blows up.
And likewise you could maybe pull 100 A from FAUP:s but then their life will be reduced drasticly.

I have actually tested them in my Kanai buggy and they held up for 1 discharge anyway..... but they were really hot and the runtime was only 3-4 min max. The Kanai will eat them.

Bottomline is that they are the overall best choise for 1/10 sedans and buggys. They provide a "better" powersolution with regards to weight (and everything that comes with that), CG, easier for the esc and price if you can live with 5 min runtime.

Miha has for sure more info about them, since he uses alot of them in his boats. How they perform at high discharge rates and how well they hold up.

Didn´t you order a pack ? I have a slight memory that you did.

NIC

[k_sw31]

Yeah, I ordered 12 cells in all...a 7 cell pack, a three cell pack, and two loose cells.

This was I can run 7-12 cells in any config. that I like.

My main application is 1/10th trucks and buggies...with a basic 5300.

Unfortunatly...THE DAY BEFORE (note frustration ;)) I got the FAUPs, my hacker controller decided it wanted to malfunction. :(

Aside from that, school has been tough latley, and weather has been bad, I'm not even sure if I would have had time to test them by now. =\

Thanks for the info!

[NIC]

To everyone:

I wish all of you guys here at the forum a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !

I hope that santa is really nice to everyone and bring alot of bl-stuff for x-mas :) !
Then let´s make 2004 a really exciting and fun year with new rc-equipment.

Merry Christmas everyone !

NIC

[k_sw31]

Its not christmas for another 35 hours or so where I am....

But merry christmas!

I may be gettin some rc stuff this year, but we'll see.

On another note, I got my last pay check awhile ago from summer/fall work, and my parents don't let me buy anything when its a month or close to x-mas...so right now I have about 300$ lying around. :)

I will have to buy myself some good rc stuff sometime then. :)

[Mr. Constructor]

To NIC:

I´m really with you, good and peaceful (!!) xmas and a happy new year to all of us (and maybe a little Bl Stuff under the tree . . . . .;-) )

To k_sw31:

hopefully there WAS some Bl stuff in the bag !!

as for the money, why not trying to built a 8th buggy, the comunity is growing very fast !! (if i ever have the time to come to the US only for racing and having fun with cars, we should really all met and have a good 8th BL race !!!
(8th IS that much more fun than the smaller scales, only topable by 5th or 6th or even 4th !!!)

[k_sw31]

No BL stuff under the tree this year...

However!

I received a four rotor "dragonfly" helicopter with li-poly battery! Its a blast! :D

[OptimaMan]

Not in the right forum... but how's that dragonfly fly? I just got into helis also and can't fly mine worth... um.. excretions. I keep on crashing and my heli has the basic 4200 and castle creations 60 amp controller.

[k_sw31]

Well, I am new to flying RCs as well.

The heli took about 1-2 hrs to set up.

So far I have flown for about 15 minutes on the 12 ft tether cord. You have to start out getting used to four channels, working with pitch, yaw and a bunch of other stuff. The next step is getting off the ground, and mastering being able to hover. After about 5 minutes I was able to get it up in the air for about 10 seconds, I can now keep it up for 20-30 sometimes, its still very difficult, but at the same time quite easy.

I think it is just a matter of getting used to useing four channels.

[herbalist]

Is there anyone who has compared the HACKER COMP with the U-force?

I already have the hacker system

but the U-force seems to be much more tunable than Hacker

If U-force is even smoother than Hacker...... I'll considering to get one soon:D :D :D :D :D

[NIC]

Hello !

A short videoclip with sound of my 12 (!) cell Lazer ZX-RR with a Hacker C40 6L on a slippery winterroad. Speeds are in the 60:s with soft 64mm foamtires and 8,2:1 :) !

Thanks to Miha for uploading the movie.

http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=24240

If the link doesn´t work just put in "video" and "Lazer" in the searchboxes.

NIC

[Strike 4]

Man that's insane how do you have so much control!?

[Dr.Loomis]

Hey, Does anyone know if a pede had a Novak BL,CVD's,7cell batt,could compare to a Nitro Rustler in a race anyway,If I geard it high?:D

[NIC]

Strike 4

??!!! Controll ? I´m just going straight. It is suppose to go straight if I don´t turn the wheel. After the car is done spinning and have found grip it goes straight.
It´s 4wd if you didn´t know that though :) ;)

NIC

[Bob Ebophalus]

Link no worky:( put in some spaces somewhere between the www. and the .net.

[Signats]

Originally posted by Bob Ebophalus
Link no worky:( put in some spaces somewhere between the www. and the .net.

Try: r c p i c s after the WWW and before the .net (and without the spaces) :)

[mrgdbr]

How do you think the u-force compares to other schulze controlers? I want to run it in a T4 with a 4200 and possibly the new 6000 Li-po's when they hit.

[NIC]

mrgdbr:

Just buy it, you will not be disapointed I can promice you that. I have HIGH demands when it comes to RC-stuff and I can highly recomend it. It handles like the best LRP:s and other top of the line brushed esc out there. And the fact that it is shaped like a esc SHOULD be, makes the mounting of it a piece of cake.

When you drive at the highest level the feeling of the esc and servos are the most important thing. The ability to drive with high precision is vital in racing and for quick laptimes.
The car is suppose to feel like an extension of your nervsystem, were you just think of where you wanna place the car and it automaticaly goes there.
The U-force is like that, it just matches what your mind says. You don´t have to compensate for strange throttle or breakcurves with your finger.

The only thing I don´t like about it is the 5 Volt BEC (same I think for all Schulzes with BEC). The servos becomes a little slower, but It´s just a minor problem. You can reposition your linkage for a little quicker steering.

NIC

[mrgdbr]

How about the radio receiver combo. I have heard of people having some trouble with schulze controlers communicating with the receiver one inparticular the futaba HRS.

[NIC]

mrgdbr:

That I cannot comment about. I use the smaller R133F Futaba-receiver mostly without the high response system. But if you wanna know wich works and not, just post a question, I´m sure you will get answers here. If you don´t get answers here maybe the dealer from wich you buy your esc from might know.

NIC

[mrgdbr]

could you recomend where to buy a u-force? By the way do you run the 50 or the 75?

[NIC]

mrgdbr:

I run the 75 amp version.
I don´t know if I understood you correctly. Did you HAVE some dealers already and just wanted to know who has the best prices and service, or don´t you know where to get your UF from ?

If you know a dealer who sells Schulze esc:s, ask him if he could order the UF for you, he should be able to do that.
If you don´t know of a dealer near you, do some research for airplane dealers, they usually know about Schulze products.
I can´t really say were you can get yours since I have my dealer in Sweden and I live there too. He deals only with electric flights and is really big in that segment so he has ALL the stuff that comes with electrics.

Ok, I wish you good luck in finding your dealer, the controller is worth the money, effort and wait it sometimes takes to get what you want.

NIC

[Strike 4]

I am curious cant I use a HV-Maxx speed control on a SS5800 motor and run like 9 cells?

[alpinesky1]

NIC -

My question is would the U-Force (hooked to a C40 8T) run a full 8000mah. 7.4v Lipo pack in my RC10T3 without Thermaling (30-35mins.) ?

I had my eyes on the Hacker Car Master Comp. , cus it has 90amps conts. were the U-Force only has 75amps conts.:(

Im worried that ill themal, remember now i live down in Florida and have 90*F-100*F hot summer days (heck right now its 84*F).....:mad: .....

I know a fan would help, and i may add one, but i really want a controller that runs without a fan without thermaling.....

What i really want to do is run another Lipo Pack right after the other dies, and not wait too long for the car too cool
:cool:

Is there anything you can tell me about the controllerb about how hot it getts? Have you tryed running pack after pack after pack? Have you even themaled it yet? how warm is it where you live?

Thanks bro

[NIC]

alpinesky1:

I haven´t jumped on the Li-poly bandwagon yet so I haven´t got a direct answer to your question.
I think Craps had a similar set-up to yours but with a Hacker Master esc with that. Ask him how the Hacker handled that set-up.

But looking at your figures I would say it will stand the "force".
If your running a 8000 mAh battery for 30-35 min your not using much current.
I empty a 1950mAh pack in 5 min and the controller is cool with that. You can barely detect a little heat from it but it´s only around 35-40 Celsius or around 100 F. I run the esc in a sedan with 10 cells and a B40 6L geared pretty low at around 9:1.
I have gone through 3 packs without any problems, about 2-3 min to change them. That is only 15 min in total but I´m using abit more current then your set-up.

I don´t think the esc will have any problems with your set-up but I can´t give you a 100% answer since I haven´t run the excact same set-up.

Hope it helps a little.

NIC

[Craps]

Alpinesky1
Don't tell anybody, but the Schulze 18.61K is a better ESC than the Hacker Master Comp. If you gear it right, thermalling will not be a problem with either ESC and I have used a the C40 8 turn and both 4200 and 5300 Lehner motors with both ESCs. I perfer the Schulze over the Hacker due to it being smoother and radio adjustable with a 2 second reverse delay to allow you to use brakes where if you set the Hacker up with reverse and you try to brake easy it will go into reverse when all you need is brakes. The Hacker has an on/off like switch to the brakes and the throttle with no radio adjustment to either. The Schulze ESC will allow you to set up an ABS.

The only draw back to the Schulze is that you have to run a BEC or a reciever pack, but if you go over 8 cells on the Hacker you have the same problem. Also the Schulze is not compatible to Futaba's new HRS reciever, but just get the PPM or PCM reciever is fine.

Go read my "Lithium Poly Battery" thread from beginning to end for all of the information you are looking for. You have posted there before.

Good Luck!

PS. You can put too much motor in a stadium truck that you can't hook up all of the power to the ground. I suggest 2 motors for track conditions, 12 turn when it is loose and a 10 turn when it is tight with alot of bite. The Lehner 4200 is about equal to a 10-12 turn Hacker, but a little more than the Novak SS5800 where the Lehner 5300 is equal to an 8-6 turn Hacker. You need 4wd to hook up anything less than a 10 turn motor.

[Simen123]

NIC:
I have a little question about the Schulze u-force 75..
I read on the schulze site that you can set up the minimum brake as an automatic brake, if you have tried this, does it work similar to magnets slowing down a brushed motor after you let go off the throttle(which usually is very helpfull on on-road tracks..)?
How does this affect heat?

[alpinesky1]

Originally posted by Simen123
NIC:
I have a little question about the Schulze u-force 75..
I read on the schulze site that you can set up the minimum brake as an automatic brake, if you have tried this, does it work similar to magnets slowing down a brushed motor after you let go off the throttle(which usually is very helpfull on on-road tracks..)?
How does this affect heat?

NIC - this is something i was woundering too....

Have you set the controller too have drag brakes?
if not can you try them out , and tell us how they compare to a LRP/Novak Brushed esc., i use to use drag brakes alot since im a quadrapilegic, i use a 4ch/airplane controllers right joystick to gas steer and brake, cus i dont have use of my left hand.

Matter of fact i have changed my driveing style since going brushless(Aveox), i now mostly lock the rear and power slide 1/3rd into the turn, i then gas it.. took me a good month to learn to master, and now i feel im a better driver for it BUT now that BL controllers are getting more featers, i would love to have my drag brakes;)

[Craps]

I have noticed with the Schulze 18.97KWF ESC in my 1/8th buggy responds to my Futaba 3PK radios ABS set up and pulses the brakes through the Hacker motor. This can be adjusted set to adjust on one of the dails or buttons on the radio while running.

[vad]

Craps,
you can change your idle up to the abs feature. you will find it in the mode which has the fail safe option.

[Miha]

Originally posted by Simen123
NIC:
I have a little question about the Schulze u-force 75..
I read on the schulze site that you can set up the minimum brake as an automatic brake, if you have tried this, does it work similar to magnets slowing down a brushed motor after you let go off the throttle(which usually is very helpfull on on-road tracks..)?
How does this affect heat?

Simen, I found on my 11.20e which was used in Micro RS4 as well as Xray M18 that it has automatic brakes when I let off the trigger. Heating of the controller at such low power levels was almost none though.

[NIC]

Siemen123:

I haven´t tried the dragbreak yet, I will see if I have the time maybe later today to try it out.
I will report the feeling of it.

To alpinesky1 and all:

The nominal current value is measured differently on the UF compared to the 18.129 and 18.149.
On the 18.149 it´s the continuous current at full throttle at wich the esc can operate when connected to a 2Ah battery without forced cooling. But on the UF it´s a 3Ah battery.
I wonder why they tested differently on thoose controllers. Do they test with a 3Ah battery when the esc has coolingfins or what ? Or is it just because the capacity of the batteries has gone up and they decided to change their testing-method, cause not many people use 2Ah batteries anymore ?
Anyways I think you should use a esc with coolingfins for your application as the Schulzes without coolingfins don´t disapate heat as good.

I also wonder if Schulze just coppied that part in the manual for the 18.129 to the 18.149 because both have that 2Ah battery to determind the nominal current.
You would have thought that they changed to a 3Ah battery for the 149 cause it´s a brand new controller.
But I guess they just used the same measurements for the 18.149 as they did for the 18.129 because if they used a 3Ah battery on the 18.149 maybe it woulden´t have been a 149 amp controller :) !

NIC

[alpinesky1]

Thanks NIC.;)

Craps - i have a Hitec Flash 4x, and it doesnt have ABS, only transmitters with ABS are pistal grips(i think) , remember i can only drive with a 4channel(the right joystick), i ware a wrist brace cus i cant move my fingers or wrist, and put my hand in a U shaped metal peace.......

Check out my HandyCap Van That i drive, it cost $65,000 to moddify. And i drive by JoyStick :p :D :cool:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/484000-484999/484602_33_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/484000-484999/484602_34_full.jpg

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http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/484000-484999/484602_46_full.jpg

[Mr. Constructor]

Hey, what a conversion, really a good thing, but you didn´t do that on your own or did ya, THAT would be really a bang on the head !!
(by the way, how does that happened to your legs, a crash ??)

damn bad to be only around with these electric helpers (some of our modellers around here in Hamburg do have similar conversions for their real Cars, and they´re very fast at the race track, even if it is not the easiest for them to use all areas of the track, as some are not yet made for electric chairs.

hopefully we hear another good project (meaning an RC project this time !! ;-) )

see ya, greetings from Germany !!

[alpinesky1]

No a componey did the conversion , that the state payed for(thank god).

When i was 13, i jumped off my trampoline and dived into my pool, broke my C4-5-6 vertibrays in my neck....

Anyhow it is amazeing what technoligy is out there, i really want to get a used system or make my own for my mustang so i can drive/drag race it.....

Yeah all the tracks i know arent (eletric wheelchair accesable)..
One of the tracks that is is Tampa Lake Park, (e.i. where they hold the winter nationals) , and if you have ever been there or seen pics of there drivers stand the ramp is almost stright up, like a 45* angale, my cusin has to stand behind the chair so i dont flip back and a friend holds the front of my chair down too, while going up..... Going down is even harder my chair starts slideing down and it takes 2/3 people to hold it or i would go tumbleing down:( ........... And the other track i go to has no ramp and the driver stand is 15 feet high:mad: ........

My cusin and i plan to make a 3-5ft. high driver stand on my dads old trailer, that way i can bring it to any track and move it inplace rite next too the drivers stand......:)

But what ticks me off is im not the only wheelchair guy at some tracks , What Are they spose too doo:(

[Mr. Constructor]

Damn thing to break your neck C 4-6 !!

**** thing, but be honored, many people here in germany DO have the same problems in getting to these Car stands too, but i finally (maybe) found a good solution wich lets you crawl even a small (not 45° angled, maybe 30°) step !!
Try to look at the tank builders at www.bigtanks.de, they are prudcing a 6th "Maus", the base frame should be able to take a wheelchai (maybe only the seat) and then take some really big capacity batterys and a good BL system (why not use modern technology for these purposes, if there is a safety switch that disconnects all circuitry from the batterys it is even safe if anything iw damaged (wich should not happen, as the Products are really good and if choosen right, nothing should fail!!

Maybe this gets you on some ideas, these tanks weight near by 100-110 Kg when ready, so a human shouldn´t be the problem at all, why not driving arround on tracks ??

(OK in the real car conversion you might have to use the original wheelchair, as this thing might be too long, but otherwise it might be a good solution??)

[Craps]

Alpinesky
I sometimes race at a track in Easley, SC that has a long ramp up to a landing about 5' above the track for wheelchair access and then stairs up another 4' higher to the driver's stand. This is the only track I know of in my area that has this kind of access and there is a guy who is in wheelchair also that comes to the track to help us that I think deep down wants to race too, but doesn't think he can get high enough to see. We were thinking about building something for him also to get about 4' higher.

I don't know where you live, but if you are anywhere near Easley, SC, come on by and let me know you are coming. I'll try my best to be there to meet you. Here is the track web site in Easley, SC: www.carolinarc.com

[Mr. Constructor]

Great Track, and the vids are really cool, esp. the sound of the 4tzh cars comes very close to the other (real)Cars !!

Hopefully i could have the time in the next few years to come to America again, i live in Germany in Hamburg, so the distance is VERY high, but thanks anyway for this great offer, if I´m ever in your area, i will try to come to this track, the RCCarAction (wich i do have in a subscription way) shows many Tracks in their directory, so i think i will find them out if i´m there !! (gps in the car does the rest !! ;-) )

Hopefully you find a better way to "Climb" this thing and have fun on other tracks too !! (you really have many many tracks there in America, really a good thing to know, wherever you´re there is a race track only a few Auto minutes away !!

[Soya v1.1]

Ahh, alive and well :)

[DualBL]

wow, looong time no see soya! welcome back
-Nick

[Soya v1.1]

And there was much rejoicing *unenthusiastic yaaaay*

[TeamMishap]

Anyone have any experience running a Hacker B50-12S and a C50-MAXX? I'm wondering if it's worth it to go to the MAXX, but I think they are essentially the same motor, just that the MAXX has a better can design

[glassdoctor]

Yeah, it's the same motor besides the can design. The one thing I don't like about the C50 is that it is so big... that gearing choices are limited when mounted on a stock plate. The can hits the tranny case with a 20 tooth pinion, so you can't go smaller without an aftermarket chassis/plate setup.

It would be nice to just drop a couple teeth, but I can't. So I had to buy some larger RRP spurs etc.

The big finned can has to be good for cooling though.... and it can't pop the end off like a B50.

[Simen123]

Has anyone tried the Plettenberg "Shadow" motor? I e-mailed a guy from Schulze, and he meant that this motor had lots of rpm and more torque than a C40-6t.. How much difference would it be because of the 4-pole design?
thanks :)

[Mr. Constructor]

The torque is not 2 times the torque than on a c40, but due to the 4 pole design and the little bigger but shorter rotor it is around 1,5-1,8x the torque, wich really is good, but not really needed in those small lightweight 10th cars, as the esc has to handle these motors (that should be a Schulze, Hacker Car, or a Kontronik JAZZ) these 4 pole motors do not run that high in RPM compared to those 2 pole motors, so the advantage of higher torque might be lost, because of lower RPM.
In general it could be said, that the maypr factors that generate Torque is the total design of all parts, so only a huge tprque doesn´t make sense, the torque is generated by high RPM normally, the Plettenberg (named "Pletti" in Germany) is a good motor, but overall, the other manufacturers do offer the same power, but they reach it through different ways in their construction.

If you could get a Pletti really for a good price why not go with it, their quality is legendary here in Europe (for almost near 20 Years now, they are a big name when it comes to power, quality but also on price, they´re mostly not that cheap !! ) so you´ll not be disappointed!!

[Simen123]

Thanks for the answer.
The thing is that I have a c40-6t, and I would like something with more torque, but not much less rpm.
I thought about the 1920/5t, but then the guy from Schulze recommended the Shadow.
What is your opinion on the 1920/5t?

[Mr. Constructor]

as for the 1920/5Turn: go with it, it has plenty of torque, but if you plan it on using it in a 8th conversion, try to select a 1940 (or even longer) and then re-calculate the RPM/V as you might use 12 cells, but for 10th and 6 cells this Motor will give you more tha enough power, maybe too much !!
Go for it, or the Hacker B50 series wich will have more smooth power, but little less (maybe the B50 6S will be almost similar to it ??
(depends on availability and price and (off course) your favorites !!)

the choice will be excellent anyway !!

[Simen123]

thanks,
I think I will put an order on one of those :D

[Chase023]

I am thinking of using the Schulze 18.97KWF with a Plettenberg Bigmaxximum motor.. Should I use 16 or 18 cells with this config?? I know the Controller cell range is from 6-18 I believe..

Any Suggestions?

[Mr. Constructor]

Cell choosing depends on the will to built new special packs, if you wanna put 3 6 cell packs in series (giving 18 cells with 3300 mAh) then you could use them easy on all other cars too, if you plan on running it on 16 cells you will not be able to use the full cell range in all cars (2x 6 cell and one 4 cell pack (wich could be used in 12th on road if you drive that too !!)

as for the power to weight ratio, maybe there are 12 cells enough, i´m using 18 in my 5th´s, and they do have enough power, so in any smaller car 18 might be too heavy and undriveable due to the sheer Power !!

but the esc can handle up to 18 cells, so you could even use it to that, but keep everytime an eye (even with 16 cells) on the temp. if it rises fast and goes high, there is something wrong with the gearing or even the full motor wasn´t a good select !!
If you really wanna use 18 cells and don´t find the car overpowered (have you seen the vids with someone doing 24 cells in an emaxx, this car was totally undriveable !!) then go for it !!!