Staying competitive ??

[erock1331]

I know lately that this sport has gotten way out of hand with the cost to stay competitive. But here is my story.

I race on a carpet oval track. We run pan cars, mostly Associated L3O's, Hyperdrives and Carpet Pros. We have 2 classes, Busch and Winston. The Busch class is restricted to running 2400 mah, Stock motor, Spec tires, and not allowed to cut the back of the body out and no wing.

I was progressing pretty easily though the Busch class. You have to get 50 laps to get an automatic move up to Winston. The problem is I have been stuck at 49 for like 4 months now. So 2 weeks ago I go out and get the Quantum Competition ESC, a new coreless, BB servo, a new Green Machine 3 and rebuild my car from the ground up. I turned 49 laps again. Then last week I turned 48 laps with no wrecks.
I have an Integy 16x2 charger, not the best but has worked so far.
My batteries have good numbers compared to my competition. I get my motor's re-cut and put new brushes about every 5 runs or so. Then I have them dyno'd and the numbers are really good. My gearing is set to the correct roll-out for the track and the car handles great, and I am one of the best drivers in my class.
Any suggestions from all you die-hard racers out there? Am I missing something? I dont know that a better charger would help or not?
Any suggestions? NEED SPEED HELP, lol

[jdm3849]

sorry there is no selling of narcotics on this forum, got to the buy/sell/trade:D


-mike

[erock1331]

Ha ha
I guess I do sound like someone in search of a good drug binge.

[Crazy Canuck]

Weight would be the next big thing to look at. Anywhere you can lose weight, you will make the car faster.

Other than that, take a while to get adjusted to the new top speed you have. It is harder to control a faster car, but afetr a few weeks, it will come to you.

If that doesnt help, try getting someone with a competition charger to repeak your batteries for you.

[FrankW]

Might wanna see if you can shave a little down around the bottom of the body and mount the body just a little bit lower. Also, try to get weight down as low as possible, every gram helps. For example: remove the case from the reciever and put it in shrink wrap, drill a few holes in the servo (hey, it adds up!). Get the wires as short as possible.

Also, you might want to try and get a sheet of lexan and cut it to fit the ouline of the bottom of your body, then mount it undernieth your chassis (carpet tape or servo tape). This "undertray" will increase aerodynamics and could make you just fast enough to get into the Winston series.

You obviously already have the equiptment and the skill... you just need a few tricks.

-Frank

[Mongoose420]

conerspeed and the fast line. Are you running a banked or flat oval? On flat oval expecialy the fast guys can get in and out the corners quick but might not have the best of the best equipment and beat cars that are slightly faster cars down the straits. You tracks has a trasponder system correct? Check your lap times and try diffrent lines. Try going a little wider going into the corner and pick up some corner speed to set you up for the straits. Do this for a couple a weeks, commit to a line for a full heat race(if your track doesnt run a organized prastice with transponders) and check and write down your lap times. Do this for every heat and main and you should see in your log( fastest lap, average lap, and number of laps) after a couple a weeks or even the first couple a heats what the fastest way your car and you style gets around the track. Try all kinds a diffrent lines, and diffrent set ups and keep a log, thats the best way to figure out if what your doing works.

The only other thing i can think of is check your gearing, idealy you want your car up to top speed 1/2 to 3/4 down the straits, not at the end of the strait. All that time you wasted geting up to that speed only to hold it for the last couple a feet before the turn you could have gained by going a little slower but maintaing a faster speed(not to mention with a slightly lower ratio you will come outa the corner alot harder). Again gearing all depends on the line and you driving style. Sometimes you have to go slower to really see whats faster.

[erock1331]

Thanks guys for the responses. As far as the weight thing, I actually have to add weight to make the car legal at 2 pounds 6 ounces. I run at about 2.62 to be safe. Since we run spec tires and lately they are hard to come by we normally just run them at stock height which is about 2.45 inches in diameter and let them wear down. This could be a problem too that my tires are too large in diameter. We run on banked oval I think around 15 degrees all the way around. I was running the car originally with the long wheel base setting, but recently switched to the short wheelbase because it seemed that's what all the guys were doing. I turned the same amount of laps with both settings, so I don't think that is a factor. I will have to try running different lines and see what that does.

[InspGadgt]

Good racing lines are important and often overlooked. In 1/12th I used to win with 1700mah batteries and a 2 year old worn out motor over guys with new motors and 2000mah batteries...why?...Not crashing and racing a better line.

Also keep in mind that tire diameter affects your gearing as well. As your tires wear down you will gain acceleration but loose top speed. Newer tires will have more top speed but less acceleration. If your going to use the roll out method to find your gear ratio then tire diameter is really important. My former race buddies who used that system would recalculate their rollout after every run because of the change in tire diameter.

Frank brings up a good point with aerodynamic drag. When I went banked oval racing we found some bodies to have less drag than others but also less downforce to keep the car stable. You might want to take a look at other body styles and see if you can eeek out that extra lap there. Hot Bodies I believe used to make undertrays for pan cars to cut down drag as well. Though most people didn't use them because of how difficult it was to straping tape in your batteries. If they won't let you cut the back out see if they will let you drill some holes in the back. Anything to help lessen the parachute effect of that rear bumper.

[Casper]

Reducing the rotating mass of the car is a big deal. I am not an oval racer but I do know that reducing the rotating mass will help you accelerate better. Small tires will help with this. Larger heavier tires will make the car accelerate slower. Try different gearing. It never hurts to experiement. Takeing a little top end out to get up to speed again out of the corners might help. Everything is a trade off. It is all about finding the best compromise. Try running looser springs on your motor to let it spool up faster. Try slotted or brushes with a hole in them. This will reduce drag in the motor and give it more RPM. It sounds like you are one of the faster guys but watch the Winston drivers and see the line they take around the track and do your best to follow it. In practice race with them as much as possible to see where they go. If they already made it to the next level they should know where the fast line is.

[InspGadgt]

Good point...rotating mass...a good way to reduce this IF you have enough traction allready is to narrow the tires on a truer if your rules allow for that. It's all a big balancing act.

[erock1331]

I have heard of some guys narrowing their tires but unfortunately we are not allowed to since we have to run spec tires. Also we cannot drill holes in the back end of the body it must remain in tack. Right now I run a Protoform Tarus lightweight body. Everyone pretty much runs the Tarus, Monte Carlo or Dodge body.
The track we run on is home to 3 past Oval Nats winners so it is pretty competitive racing week in and week out. Maybe I will let them take a look at my car and see if they can help me out or notice anything wrong in my setup.
One guy said my car is losing speed in the corner, but it seemed to me that my car has been running quick through the corner. I think I am losing it down the straights.
I will see how she runs tomorrow and try some different things. I will keep you guys posted of my progress. Thanks for all the tips, you guys are great.

Thinking of buying a comm lathe anyone recommend a good one and a price range? willing to spend up to $200 on one.

Thanks
Eric

[InspGadgt]

Which Monte? The 2000 or the 2002? One of them is a high downforce body so it will have more drag than the Taurus or the Intrepid. Back when I raced oval the Thunderbird was the king of the high speed tracks and the Monte was the short tracker body.

[erock1331]

i think they are all 2002 bodies

[InspGadgt]

That's something to look at too then. The 2002 is listed as a high down force body but the 2000 Monte, Taurus, and the Intrepid are not. Keep in mind though that while switching to a body that has less drag will make your car quicker it will also make it not stick as well in the corners.

[Casper]

Norrowing tires is one way but since you are running foams running smaller diameter rear tires will help a lot also. Also if you can find maybe an aftermarket drive axle out of graphite or a lighter spur gear or SiNi diff balls all can make a difference. If a pro is telling you your car is loosing speed in a corner it probably is. If you are oversteering to get through the corner the car may feel like it is handling ok but if the front is scrubbing you are loosing speed. You need to make sure it rolls through the corners as well as possible. You will find that it is not the guy that makes it to the end of the straight the fastest but the guy that makes it in and out of the corner the fastest and most consistantly that wins. I was racing one afternoon and I thought my car worked pretty well but it had a small push. I drove my buddies car that had a lot more steering but still was stable and was going much faster since I did not have to slow down to complensate for the push. I think this is why they say loose is fast. The problem is you still have to be able to control it. If you are scrubbing speed change your setup to get some more steering and see how things change.

[Mongoose420]

Oval racing is all about corner speed and the line that will get you in and out of the corner at that speed. Anyone can have a fast car down the strait but the cars that win go fast through the corner. The loose is fast club of people are fast but tend to be less consistant because there always behind there car. I set my car up with a slight push exiting the corner. This does scrub speed but your lap times will be much more consitant. I race on a extremely short flat oval so to be fast here its all about the corners. On a banked oval i would be in the loose is fast group. On tracks that alot of laps are turned in a race, Like my local track we run 75-78 laps. I set my car up with a little push and keep my lap times consistant and just try and aviod wrechs. Where fewer laps are run, lets say 45 or so or less i'll set my car up loose because i dont have to chase my car as much and as often.

Rotating mass is something to think of. I would look into a Irrgang rear axle and aluminum hubs. The axle is fiberglass so its a little heavier than graphite but doesnt break as easily and the hubs are really light and perfectly true!


GL

[rcruv]

I'm not a pan car racer though here's what I think also contribute to running faster.

I would go for better charger, a decent discharger, tray, and quality matched cells like from SMC, Team Orion, etc.
Pro tuned stock motor like from Fantom racing or others.

Do you use aluminum pinion gear?

If you can, work with different tires, inserts, wheels combo.

Just my 2 cents. :D

[Cosmo]

Well, this is why I got out of oval racing. I had to just about buy anothe rmotor every week, and about once a month I was buying batteries. I had some really good cells, or so I thought. Then some of the team drivers came down and I compared mine to theirs, and theirs smoked mine.

Also, try gearing it up. I know you have the "correct" gear, but on some tracks, I used to go up a tooth or two on the motor and just make sure I ran clean lines. You don't have much out of the corners so on flat tracks it wouldn't work, but on a banked track it just might. I was running P2K's and gearing them to the moon. I have found that they can take overgearing pretty well. I tried just about all the motors available at the time (the P2K2 wasn't out yet) and had the best results with the P2K. Just because everyone else runs something, doesn't mean it's right.

What brushes and springs are you running in the motor? I ran Reedy 767's or Putnam Greens with a red spring on both sides. Also, I ran a receiver pack in my car. I made one out of 2/3AAA cells. I don't know if your rules allow it, but it helped my car to stay strong throughout the whole race. I was getting about 5½ minutes of run time with the receiver pack, with not much noticable dumping. Without the pack, I was starting to dump about 30-40 seconds before the end of the race. Another good thing is that with the receiver pack I didn't have to add weight.

[highroller]

Don't know if this was mentioned or not. But setup is very important. If you are getting off the throttle for the corners, try a setup that allows you to stay on the throttle. Changing bodies can also help fine tune your handling, I tend to like the Protoform Gran Prix 2000 body seems to be neutral while the others Monte Carlo, Taurus, Dodge tend to have either more front or rear traction. Try changing the way you charge/discharge your batteries use a 6amp charge, 30 amp discharge this should give you a few 10ths. Another thing that seems to help is running smaller diameter tires I use to use 2.45 (as they came), but started cuting them down to 2.20 car sticks better and less weight. Now the motor and connectors (hard wire if possible) use high silver brushes and try a different gearing somewhere in the 2.20 rollout area for a track with 185 to 275 ft. Check bearings (bad ones can slow you down), polish your kingpins and front axles. Little overlooked areas can mean the difference in lowering lap times.