how does timing affect a motor????????

[speediskey]

What does timing do does it help speed or torque in any way??and if so what would be the correct timing for a 9x1 motor?

[Top End]

If you advance (go up) the timing it will increase the motor's top end rpm's. If you retard (go down) the timing it will increase power.

Advance = higher top end/less torque
Retard = lower top end/more torque

Hope this helps. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[JP]

If you retard the timing, your brakes will go up. Increse the timing, a lot faster but less brakes and less acceleration.

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[R_C_MAN]

Increase the timing and your motor will be faster and will drain the battery faster.

[JoeTheShmoe]

I dont think it is a real good idea to run it retarted.. It makes it run hotter and decreases preformance..

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win:1.To achive victory or finish first in a competetion. 2.To achive sucsess in an effort.
Lose:1.To be unable to find. 2. To be deprived of. 3. To be unable to maintain or keep. 4. To fail to win; be defeated. 5. To fail to take advantage of. 6. To let (oneself) become engrossed. 7. To rid oneself. 8 To cause loss of. 9. To suffer loss.


What do you do?

[lil_general_lee]

I'm just posting this since nobody mentioned it. Counterclockwise rotation of the endbell advances the timing while turning the endbell clockwise rerards the timing...Don't go to far in either direction or you risk ruining the motor. You can always set the timing back to 0 if you lose your mark by making sure the brushes are directly over the center of the magnets. Good Luck.

[ovalnator]

Ive been racing for ten years and know a lot of secrets. More timing=more power. I am one of few people who know how to advance the timing on a stock motor(roar legal too). I am not joking. I know a little secret that will advance the motors timing and make the motor run like a mod. Been doin it for a while now. Maybe if you ask nice i will tell you. HEHE.

[hpiguy]

1. Never use retarded timing. A tleast according to all motor makers and tuners.

2. It's pathetic that someone has to CHEAT in the stock motor class. Great role model. No wonder this hobby is dying. the newbies can't even depend on fair racing in stock classes.

[Throtl Hapie]

He probably does cheat, but there is also a chance that he really doesn't know anything about doing that kind of stuff.

[Top End]

Its not hard to alter the timing on a stock motor, but as you guys said, it is cheating and who wants to race with the lowest form of life?

[Twisted Fate]

Cheating is for people that can't drive.

Making us ask for "secret" information is a sign of a fragile ego.

Just my 1/50 of a dollar.


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Twisted Fate
What do you mean 4 feet in the air is not what you meant by "off-road"?

[ovalnator]

Hey guys, call it cheating if you want, but it is all in the brush cut. Maybe you should know the WHOLE story before you go off syaing I cheat r dont know anything at all. And just in case anyone wonders, they are not Trinity or BRp timed brushes; I use race prep "R" brushes and just cut them in a special way to advance the timing. As I said, all you have to do is ask and I will show and tell.

[ovalnator]

Oh, and as I said before, it is ROAR legal. So is that cheating? And as a matter of fact, I tell everyone that races at my track this little secret. It has nothing to do with a fragile ego or anything of the sort. Also, it would be nice to know how much interest there is in this little brush cut.

[I R Racer]

Not much interest ovalnator, thanks for offering us your little cheater secret though!

[hpiguy]

That's why STOCK racing is anything but.

They should have STOCK brushes, springs, etc. to eliminate guys like this from having the brush of the week or whatever.

It really is sad that R/C has come to this at your track.

No motor mods should be allowed for any Stock or Spec classes under any reasons.

You are just the type of thing R/C doesn't want or need. Mr. WIN AT ALL COSTS.

[ovalnator]

You know HPIGUY, this is what some people have to do to stay competitive with the sponsored guys. And it doesnt have anything to do with the brush of the week; it works with all brushes. I do agree with you on the fact that stock motors shouldnt be tampered with in anyway, but unfortunately its not that way. I usially dont run stock class anymore anyways; I run stock motors w/ my specially cut brushes in the mod class. Because the motor runs like a mod, it wears like a mod, and stock armatures are much cheaper than mod arms. If you still thinks it is cheating, then read the roar rule book and PROVE it.

[hpiguy]

Then maybe YOU should take the initiative at your track and start a motion to stop this kind of stuff.

Maybe you could write ROAR and try to get something done about it.

You're scaring more people out of your beloved oval racing than you are helping.

I tried sticking up for you guys on your oval thread, but if this is how you guys "race", I can see why your segment is dying off.

[ovalnator]

Heres a question for you, HPIGUY. Do you run 2400's or 3000's? I dont; I own 3 2000's and 6 1700's (the black ones) This is what kills the hobby; new batteries, cars and motors coming out left and right. And yes, there is a brush rule at my track--Race prep R brushes are the only brush allowed in stock; You cant keep people from cutting them though(Do you want to check 100 motors 4 times during the course of the day?). No, I will not write to roar because the dropped dirt oval and when I wrote them when that happened, I got nothing but attitude. Believe me, after looking back at how much money Ive spent on my cars, I wish spec classes were the only ones around. Unfortunately, thats not the case.

[hpiguy]

If ROAR ignores you, then why always quote their rules, or even use any of their stuff at your track?

As for inspecting all those motors, there's no need to.

Did my DI inspect all the foot lockers at lights out? Nope. He checked two or three and the fear of being of of the "checked" kept us all in line.

You can do the same at your track.

Everybody's name in a bucket and draw ten names or whatever. Those guys get inspected carefully. It will make the others fear being one of the inspected and the cheating will stop. Or at least diminish.

And it's not hard to tell who's cutting any way. If he's pulling away from similar cars from shear power, then just ask to see his motor. If he refuses to let you guys even check the brushes, then he's cheating.

I've had many track officials ask to check my car in the past at races years ago, and I have always let them look all they want, as I had nothing to hide.

[hpiguy]

Oh and I almost forgot.

NO I do not run 2200s, 2400s or 3000s. And I won't until they become RELIABLE, DURABLE, and easier to maintain.

[ovalnator]

Yeah, those 3000s are ridiculas. My friend bought 2 for the clevland indoor race last november, and 1 got a little to warm and he ended up losing 90 seconds of run time! Thats terrible. As far as teching motors, because i dont own the hobby shop, all I can do is request this, which i have on several occasions. I run 3-4 classes each week, and if I had the time, i would do it myself. I think this hobby is starting to get to political; everybody is complaining about something. Up here in the northeast, we have the never ending EDM body argument. Its one thing after another. If I could, I would move south and run TC's; they make you a better driver, and when you have a few guys running real close, its a lot of fun. Isnt that what this hobby is supposed to be?

[Uk Racer]

Hi, I would like to know whether any of you can tell me how to get my stock motor running alot faster, I know what your saying about by advancing the timing using a technique of brush cutting or otherwise is cheating, but How do you intend to keep up with the top sponsered drivers or anyone else who somehow gets there motors very very fast, In my opinion as long as you dont break the rules then you do what you can to compete.

If anyone can offer any advise on this it would appreciated. thanx

[tadium54]

5....

5 year old thread lol.

uk racer-clean and cut comm, best brush and spring combo for the track, proper gearing and overall cleaning are the best ways to stay fast

[highroller]

Altering the timing on modified motors is done to achieve one of two things increase the performance of motor but still obtain sufficient runtime. All as to been done to balance the final results. The maxium timing is usually right at 36 degrees beyond that the soldering the wires (hard wiring) to motor gets hard as endbell is way off center. If vehicle doesn't seem to accelerate properly either the gearing or timing can be used to changed the power curve a little. If you use timing as the method to increase acceleration (related to rpm levels) then the normal solution is to drop one tooth on the pinion to counter the change in motors power output and when retarding timing go up a tooth depending on runtime issues.

Cut brushes don't always alter the timing but does change the RPM output depending on type and style of cut. The surface area brush has, either puts more pressure on comm thereby decreasing the rpm while a brush with less surface area and also a lighter spring tension increases the rpm levels anywhere from 1,500 to 5,000 rpm. Then all that that is doing is altering how long one segment of the comm stays energized or when it gets energized but doesn't actually atler the timing as much as cranking on the armature shaft which is the best method of increasing or decreasing timing. With locked comms it is almost impossible to change the timing without ruining the armature but before the days of locked comms it was the method used -one company made a tool that held the armature shaft while the other allowed you to turn the armature stack -rotating the position of the comm segment - the old method was to hold put an allen wrench between oneof the armature stacks, then use vise grips and rotate it to increase timing. That method was used with the early Chameleon motors that did not have the locking mechanism installed on the armature so guys were cranking timing into those.

For die hard racing the best setup is always selecting the right brush that make the most power, finding the right spring tension that reduces arcing without effecting power then gearing - any finally following a maintenance routine to keep motor running ideally and trying to duplicate that level with other motors.

[Uk Racer]

Hey I know its an old thread but thanks for answering the question anyway lol, cheers for the help.

[guver]

does anyone run a staggered timing?

[highroller]

For every type of use there is a area where the timing is ideal or extreme. Motor tuners will normally set the timing where motor produces the best output of RPM and Torque which can be to high for certain uses or too low for others. Depending on motor configuration used standard or large comm, flat wire or round wire, 2 or 4 magnet, standup vs laydown brush configuration you may see motors set a different timing.
Normally you never see zero degrees, but 6-24 degrees of advanced timing and only in oval racing is timing set above 28degrees.

[guver]

I was wondering about different timing for + and -?
I doubt anyone does this.

[TBone77]

Ive been racing for ten years and know a lot of secrets. More timing=more power. I am one of few people who know how to advance the timing on a stock motor(roar legal too). I am not joking. I know a little secret that will advance the motors timing and make the motor run like a mod. Been doin it for a while now. Maybe if you ask nice i will tell you. HEHE.

In other news, cutting your comm every now and then is good.

:p

[topelement]

Is 0* of timing exactly in between the magnets? I have a 19 turn motor that seems kind of slow, and wondering if it's the timing. There are 4 notches on the endbell egde, which i'm guessing is the timing marks?
The screws that hold the enbell to the can are positioned at the first notch. I currently have that lined up with the mark on the can which is exactly between the 2 magnets. So I'm running 0 degrees of timing? What would be an optimum timing setting for a 19 turn sedan motor geared at 6.8:1?

[boroef]

^ 0 degrees of timing is probably right. 6.8:1 seems to be a bit high. maybe gear it lower like 7.2:1 with more advanced timing. u might get the same top end, but better punch while your at it with the timing advance!

[highroller]

There are two ways to locate the center of magnet (Zero Degree) location.
1. the point between the two mounting screw holes
2. motor can usually has an indention engraved in it parallel to each other.
For oval racing must motors are setup with timing of 24degrees, then advanced or retarded based on track issues. Normally it may only be adjusted in in either direction with only 2 degree increments.
With any motor is depends on what you are doing with it, bashing I stick with 12-18 degrees to reduce wear and get a little more runtime - for me fast should be on the track. 19 turns are a different issue, SPEC 19turn are fixed at 24degrees - to gain speed for racing selecting a brush that's make better power (Reedy 767) spring tension -could be anything from a Red/Green, to a Purple/Red, and finally the gearing that best suits it. The 19turn mods - those motors using mod can, hand wound armatures the small setup leads to speed (brushes, spring, gearing) but also timing can be used - pinion should be decreased by one tooth though. In oval racing where most racers either use a spec or mod 19turn with the 19turn mods some use 24degrees, while others use 36degrees so the actual rollout or gearing with vary by a few teeth.