Novak's brushless motor

[rvrrun]

I was just looking at an add for it and was wondering what the impact of the new motor will be. Will it obsolete brushed motors or will we have Stock, Mod and Brushless classes?

I was thinking about purchasing a new comm lathe and other related parts but it might be better to wait.

Any thoghts?

MS

[HauntedMyst]

Hard to say. Most of the other motor companies will probably try to make it illegal for racing so they can keep their dominance in the market place.

[rvrrun]

I guess I should clarify more. I dont think that certain companies would or could make a product illegal to keep their dominance. The only way to be dominant in a free market (Bill Gates excluded) is to stay ahead of the curve and innovate. Thats what Novak is trying to do. All others in the marketplace will either have to follow suit, fold or cater to niche markets.

The question I was trying to ask was wheather or not the brush motor would be used along side the brushless or no longer used at all. I know this wont happen overnight and that brushless motors have been around for a while already, but this is the first one designed for use in cars/trucks and, as such, will probably have an impact.

Just a speculative question to pass the time.

MS

[XXXER]

WELL, i will be waitning a loooong time before that major cash transaction comes up, and i will need to see it go at the track, I will still be running brushed, plus, you HAVE to get a new ESC, that is the part that gets me, it better be good, if it is gonna take over the Brushed system which has been with us since the beggining. As for how good it will be? it depends who is asking, and we need to see it first.

[HauntedMyst]

I think it will have a huge impact. Novak is making it and their products tend to be excellent. For those new to the hobby, why wouldn't they just start out with a brushless motor and esc? When combined they won't be more expensive than a good racing esc and a competition motor. LHS and Parking lot clubs will let them race, but I am sure the other motor companies will be lobbying to make them illegal. You don't think Mike Reedy and Ernie Provetti have the pull in the RC industry that Bill Gates has in the computer industry? My understanding is that brushless motors are already illegal in sanctioned racing. I could be wrong.

Do you tend to be an early adopter of technology? If not then invest in a lathe.

[joeRS4MT]

I'm ready for brushless, even if they can't be raced. I think it would be great for backyard bashing, I would love to not have to clean the comm, replace brushes, cutt comm, oil comm or don't oil comm.
As far as buying a new ESC goes, I'm hoping someone will come up with "a little black box" inline with the motor leads, as an addon to the ESC you already have. I don't see why this would be so difficult, all it has to do is receive the signal from the motor, and switch + and - back and forth. The only problem would be major heat build up.
Anyone else have any input on this?
-joe

[Oyster]

The motors are going to have to meet ROAR rules, right? ROAR rules are quite strict. For one, a stock motor cannot exceed 40 dollars retail, and a modified cannot exceed 95 dollars retail. I wonder on the price of the Novak, eh?

[PeterV]

JoeRS4, I don't believe a converter could be made operable, but it would be great if it could be that easy.

If brushless motors do catch on, I think the high-performance play crowd will be the first to adopt it; you know, the guys who put Super Roosters and hand-wound mods in their Clodbusters, that sort of thing.

Racing is another story; historically, ROAR rules have (in general) been written with an eye toward keeping racing fair and controlling costs, not inhibiting innovation or thwarting individual companies. If brushless motors will present a technological advantage that brushed motors cannot meet, and cost prevents the average guy from purchasing the brushless systems, you can bet they will remain illegal for ROAR competition. But, if enough people buy brushless and start complaining that they want to race the motors, you could see the rules ammended to include brushless motor specs. Just my thoughts--I'm certainly not speaking on ROAR's behalf.


It all comes down to the consumers--that's you! If you buy brushless, the technology will stay. If you don't, it will fade away. No matter what, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

[Nairb]

OH, now I'm ticked! I just wrote a novel-size reply and it disappeared on me! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/mad.gif

[mrfyrehawk]

There used to be a company called Aveox(sp) that used to make a brushless motor/ESC system. The Insane Speed Run pan car guys would use them to get their cars well over 100mph. The draw backs of the system were it's size, the ESC was HUGE and cost, the basic kit started at $600. Those reasons pretty much killed the company I think. I haven't seen an ad for them in ages.
Now 100mph sounds impressive and it is... the only problem the pan car racers faced was that while the car could get up to those speeds easily, the capped tires they used couldn't handle the extreme centrifigul forces and usually ripped right off the rim just as easily.
I don't know if brushless motors will catch on this time. They didn't last time. Too cost prohibitive.

[rvrrun]

Nairb,

You saved it word when you spell checked, right?

The inadequacy of electronic communication rears its ugly head.

MS

[Nairb]

I don't know if I can pour out my heart so well again, but here we go...

I, for one, am VERY excited about the advent of Novak Brushless motors. Novak is working hard to keep their motor within ROAR specs, so I think they have a very good chance of becoming legal. I have faith in Novak that they will make a superior product that can and will revolutionize the R/C car industry. These babies will have so many benefits, I can't imagine anyone not wanting to adopt and embrace them fully. First, with no brush/commutator system to wear out, we'll save tons of money, time, and worries because we won't have to cut commutators regularly, but expensive lathes, replace brushes, or clean out the waste produced by these things. The only thing we will have to think about keeping smooth are the bearings. Second, these motor will reach much higher RPMs much more quickly because there is no friction for the SMALL armature to overcome. The armature is basically a small cylindrical magnet on a shaft; that means less rotational inertia and no special winding procedures needed to get optimum balance. Hey, if your magnet seems weaker, all you need to do is take out the armature and get it zapped, then boom, you've got a brand new motor with fully restored performance. Basically, because of all the improved mechanical features, this baby will be able to spin higher RPMs with more torque. All this extra performance, and zero maintenance? Count me in! Guys, we would be STUPID not to adopt this brushless motor system. One motor will last for YEARS. Can you believe it? You better believe it because it's going to happen.

[Nairb]

I didn't spell check. I looked away for a second, bumped Esc and somethin else (I think) and it all disappeared. I tried pasting, but it wasn't there. Ctrl + Z didn't work either. It's all because of these web browser forms, they don't have all the features of a word processor.


I think with all the control that ESCs will have over these motors will make Novak decide to impliment major tweaking possibilities in the ESCs. I imagine so much more than a Cyclone can do. We might have RPM limiters to allow us to get used to the speed before we raise it up a notch. One motor could possibly work for all applications. Just use the ESC to adjust the RPMs and torque to match its performance to your application or track. These kinds of things are definitely possible and I don't doubt Novak will impliment them. I'm not sure about more than one brushless class (like stock and modified), but it is possible with regulations on ESC settings. There are so many possibilities, it's almost endless. We just need people with good ideas to set some standards.

BTW, if you want to learn more about these pocket rockets, go to Novak's website and visit their "Orange Room" forums. They have one dedicated to Brushless motors, as well as every other type of product they make. Technical support guys from Novak are always there helping out us visitors.

I say BRING IT ON! I'm ready!

[Nixx1]

i have talked with a few people in the biz about this and the price point to start with is going to be someware between $180-$300
i feel that s a bit to much for a motor

Nixx

[Nairb]

I feel that +/- $200 is a GREAT price for a high performance motor and ESC that will last for YEARS (literally). Such a small price to pay for high performance, convenience and zero maintenance, for years to come IMHO.

[rvrrun]

The original question still remains, will the performance, lack of a need for maintenance, and near limitless tunability (through the ESC like Nairb stated) seal the brushed motors fate...

...or will another class of racing be instated to harbor those who purchase and use them instead of conventional motor/ESC combos?

I agree with Nairb, when all factors are considered the cost difference between brushed and brushless should not be great. I just started getting back into the hobby and after purchasing a lathe, brushes, springs, ESC and all of the other little things (that I wanted and not necessarily needed) the dollars missing from my wallet is increasing rapidly.

MS

[BL]

hey guys - check out this site for info....
http://www.modeltech.co.uk

Bud.

[ILv2Xlr8]

FYI, I looked up prices on Modeltech (www.modeltech.co.uk) brushless motors.
Pro-Race forward and proportional brakes, Brushless Motor Controller: £160.00
Pro-Spec Torque IN-DOOR Kv. 4,500 rpm/volt 84% - 89% Eff: £139.00
UK £ Total: £299.00
Rate: 0.88
US $ Total: $339.75