Gee Bee Model "D" Sportster

[PipesCS]

The PT-19 project was enjoyable to the point I went ahead and started developing a kit for a sport Gee Bee. Having had my fill of heavy, high wing loaded kits that are out there I started looking on drawings to use the best of the PT-19 charictaristics to keep it light and use the same power system that worked.

I ended up increasing the size enough that I thought it would be prudent to make room for the E-Flite 480 just in case the power was needed later.

As with the PT-19 I did the drawings in AutoCAD and had Top Notch Product cut the kit. This one came out at twice the price for the cut parts as I got a little crazy.

The kit came today and of course I see changes needed right away but they are in the details of the cut order and we are off and running.

The D model was a one of a kind Gee Bee with an in line Minasco 4 cyl engine

Here is the best print I have found to date.

[PipesCS]

This is the first assembly. It is the battery hatch.

The hatch on the PT-19 had given me fits and this is the final improvement

The base and frames are 1/8 balsa with the skin 1/16 The stringers are 1/8 x 1/16 to reinforse the skin near the cut out for the cockpit.

[PipesCS]

I am at the point I need to ask the community at large for help. I am not good at graphics and need help with the panther graphics on the fuselage. Does anyone have a clear photograph of it.

[PipesCS]

Using the the PT-19 as experience I decided to build up the nose with ducting for cooling air to the motor. Also knowing I was going to have more weight I enlarged the nose to take the E Flite 480 BL

With this larger motor needing more current I also invested in a 25 amp speed control. All this generates heat so this brought about using the scale inlets to route air around the motor.

This was accomplished by putting the ducts into the laminations used to build up the nose block with a blank off plate added last. This forces the air up and around the motor.

[cosmicpossum]

Here's one you might be able to do something with

http://modelairplanenews.com/ma/images/onlinearticles/geebee/6.jpg

[PipesCS]

Thanks

I am starting a file of photos and it looks like I may try to do somthing in Microsoft Paint to produce a decal

I might be able to paint one on one side but the other would never match. I also have to work up the graphics on the tail


Last night I was able to get started on the main fuselage getting both sides done and joined up to the nose. Total time to date is under an hour.

I have managed to print the draft drawings into a PDF format should anyone want a copy. They are about 700K so they can be e mailed. The will print them at kinkos for about .75 cents a square foot. They are 3 X 6 foot

Haveing had the short kit laser cut, I am building the first prototype and am sure the drawings will get a few changes. Although I am getting better I have yet to get it right the first time.

Should anyone want a copy e mail me thru this site.

[PipesCS]

This is a JPEG conversion of a PDF conversion of an AutoCAD. I don't know if this will be good enough to see but here goes

[Gerryy]

Hey PipesCS, the Gee Bee looks great keep taking photos (high res if you can), if it flies well, maybe you would like to publish it as a construction article for MAN or Backyard Flyer. Let me know, I can give you details if you're interested.
GY

[PipesCS]

I am expecting good things as to its flight ability.

I took the best parts of the PT-19 and moved them onto a screen then moving the outline of the Gee Bee around it. The areas of concern is the longer nose and shorter tail. This is going to cause the battery to possibly go aft for CG. Also the weight is going to climb while the wing area is staying the same. On the good side is the fact that the original design of the PT 19 was done by Bob Somers who powered it with a .10 and a weight of 30 oz with an empty fuel tank. The electric PT 19 came in at 23 oz with a E Flite 450/20 amp speed control/1650ma Common Sense RC Li PO.

Both gas and electric are extremly stable with plenty of power. I would hope to bring the Gee Bee in at 30 oz as I am using the E Flite 480/25 amp speed control/2100ma pack.

[PipesCS]

Do you have a boiler plate of what you would expect for an article?

[Gerryy]

The best Boiler plate / template you can use, is a current issue of the magazine. s you will see, the text is about 1200 to 1500 words long, with intro, basic description of construction technique (no glue part A to part B,) some highlights of the equipment used, a basic specs chart and an In the Air Section.
We can use about 10 to 12 photos not including a good static or flight shot opener.

Just check out the last few issues and you'll see it all basically the same. The format is different from columns and product reviews.

just email me with any other questions at: Gerryy@airage.com
GY

[PipesCS]

Specs I am building to

Wing Span.............................................. .........43.5"
Wing Area.............................................. .300 sq. in.
Length............................................ ................27 in.
Weight............................................ .........26-30 oz.
Wing Loading.............................12.5-14.5 oz. / sq. ft.
Radio Required....................................4 channel
Motor Used..E Flight Park 480 Brushless Outrunner
Speed Control Used.................................25 Amp
Battery.........................1320-2100 3S li-poly (10C)
Propeller Used................APC 10 X 7 Electric

[PipesCS]

As you may have noticed I am jumping around on this thread. Many of the concepts on this model are carried over from the PT-19 and were proven ideas. The main hatch was one that had given me fits. I tried to make the first skin out of 3/32 balsa which was too hard to bend. Second I tried the 1/64th ply route which was too thin and would not hold a good shape around the cockpit openings. I ended up with 1/16 ply over 3 frames with stringers to support the cut areas. This has worked great on the Gee Bee.
The nose block cooling ports were another late revelation on the PT-19 that I wanted to use.

Tonights project has been to assemble one of the wheel pants. A lot of newer modelers only know ABS or Fiberglass and would not dream of carving a set.

It has driven the cost of the kit up some but I decided to cut out all the parts to make them up. This added 22 parts to the cut order but after the last hour of work I now feel it was worth it.

If these photos don't cause your heart to speed up a little you are following the wrong thread as there is nothing in aviation history sexier than the wheel pants of the 1930 Gee Bee's.

I will try to walk thru the assembly process in the next few frames.

[PipesCS]

The concept I am using is to first bend the wire as close to the plan as possible.

Then the gear is temp mounted to the wing.

The concept is to mount one half the fairing assembly to the wire gear and then add the other half traping the gear within the wooden fairing. The gear wire is bent so that the tire comes off on the inboard side of the wheelpant where there will be a 1/64 ply cover to gain access.

This is a photo of the first side showing the cutouts for the gear wire. It is the 1/8 inch core pieces glued to 1/4 inch outer laminations. Once glued to the wire the 1/4 inch layers will be added to the other side. Of coarse the gear will have to come back off the wing to do the final shaping and finishing.

[PipesCS]

Las nights project was to add the turtle pack framing and to start rounding the nose blocks. I was also able to add the blocks that make up the forward motor hatch.

I will say that this and the PT 19 depend on the shaping of blocks and then hollowing them out for lightness. This is a dated process but one that is easy to master.

Tools use to date are an exacto knife, Razor Saw, sanding block, Micro plane and a balsa striper or small saw to cut the strip wood. I would recommend the wood striper if you do not have a small saw as it will greatly reduce cost if you can by sheet wood and cut your own strips.


The design for the wheel pants also was changed today to a simpler method of attaching them so that the wheel can be removed and replaced without major work to get inside the wheel pant.

I have started looking at ways to cut the cost of the short kit from Top Notch Products as I went a little over board on the number of cut parts.

I am looking hard at the thicker ply pieces that I had him cut for the patterns to laminate up the tail and wingtip bows. I believe the average builder can lay them up using only the plans and straight pins. More on that later.

Well I give up on uploading photos tonight as my system is too slow.

[PipesCS]

I managed to get a little time on the fuselage yesterday with most of the work being on the nose blocks and turtleback area.

The flat plate across the top of the turtle back is to lock the tail into and to give you a flat plane to place the carved head rest.

I still continue to work on the weight issues as I am determined to bring this model in under 30 oz.

The fuselage along with the landing gear are my major areas of concern and while the constucton of the tail looks light is in fact a well proven strong way to build.

The assembly with the holes along the top of the turtle back is actually the cut pieces that make up the base of the horiz and Vert Stabilizers.

[PipesCS]

Trial fitted the motor and found that I had positiond the holes inthe motor mount based on the E-Flite 370 to 450 motors I am use to. When I recieved the 480 the holes while being spaced the same actually are off 90 degrees putting the wires in a different location than my clearance cut. Thinking it over I have decided to add holes for both types. If possible to bring the weight in under 30 oz the 450 may infact be the better motor for it. The 480 is quite a bit heavier and the power may not be needed.

This is the test fitting of the 480 motor.

[PipesCS]

Still looking for graphics of the Panther logo on the D model should anyone have anything.

[PipesCS]

Project for today has been the vertical Stab along with the left wing panel.

The stab is built up by laminating layers of 1/16" balsa around a pattern using wood workers glue and allowing it to set over night. once you take it off the pattern it will hold its shape.

I used plywood to cut out a panel as I intend to build more than this one prototype as I work out and test all the changes to the kit. I try to build at least two before I move on to my next project.

A simpler method to do this if you are only building one is to place your plans and wax paper on your building board (I use a ceiling tile 2'x4'). I then make a mold by placing model pins around the inside line of the laminations spacing them about 1/4 inch apart.

This give you a surface to bend the laminations around. You hold the layers up against this row of pins with another row on the out side. I built up the tail of the Gee Bee with 3 layers.

The laser cut base piece is tabbed so that it can be set into the horiz stab and the turtle back base.

[PipesCS]

Before I go any farther I need to give a note of recognition where it is needed.

I am not even sure how I came across John Valentine of Top Notch Products a few years ago and have yet to lay eyes on him yet.

My first serious set of plans in AutoCAD were cut by him for a qtr scale model after much time spent on the phone with him as he walked me first thru the process of drawing a plan and then the art of laying out the parts on to cut sheets and all that goes with that. I continue to learn from him every time we talk

He is the provider of short kits for the PT 19 and this Gee Bee along with all other projects. As these are my designs and I do the lay up work he only charges for the materiel he provides along with his laser cut time. He has consistantly shipped with in the week I email him my drawings. Besides working with rank beginners such as me, He also caries shortkits from the major designers

He can be reached at

Top Notch Products Company
PO Box 1051
Goodletsville, TN 37070
Phone 615-866-4327
www.topnotchkits.com
email: tnproducts@cs.com


If you are new to drawing in autocad I highly recommend him.

[Gerryy]

Oh, I know John valentine! Really nice guy and excellent laser cut parts! He cut some Depron foam for an indoor profile GB-Z model that I am building. See elsewhere in the Radiocontrolzone to see details. John's a great model designer too! He published a construction article of a Lear fan pusher several months ago in MAN. I think he sells a kit of it as well!
GY

[PipesCS]

Gerryy

I have decided to take you up on the challange of writing an article.

My original thought was "Yea Right"

Then over the next few days I realized I may be in danger of becoming somewhat of a hypocrite. I may have slipped into that group of old modelers who bash magazines saying they are nothing more than product reviews- selling the wonders of the ARF and without any real meat in them.

It is very easy to look back at my copies from the nineteen fifties and sixties and use them to beat up on the same publications today.

What we tend to forget is that in the past we “had” to make every piece we needed and that most of the kits on the market back then were really just a box of wood and that might not always match what the plans showed. The good old days really weren’t all they are sometimes cracked up to be.

So, with this in mind, I realized that if you don’t care for the ARF-packed issues and someone happens to ask you to write an article on your project, then you might be a little hypocritical if you say no.

Who knows maybe we can bring new modelers to the scratch building world.

Of course This also puts a burden on me to build a better finished model than I usually do and to also provide a true evaluation of its true performance.

So I will write it and need you to clean it up as I am no writer.

Actually it is not really important if it does get published, just that I tried.

[PipesCS]

For those who have never layed up laminated wing tips or tails here is a photo of a plywood piece I used for the Gee Bee Wings. If you are only doing one model you can do the same thing with pins around the inside of the shape.

[PipesCS]

Todays project has been the wing and the turtleback

The wing is a traditional wing contruction very much like the Sig 4 star design. It is not fancy with D box or anything special. It can be built up in an afternoon. The only thing I am trying new is to produce a set of cut parts to make the landing gear blocks up without the need for a small table saw to slot them

They are built up of 1/8" Balsa already drilled for the 1/8" wire.

[PipesCS]

The turtle back design firmed up in my head around 0400 this morning.

I add add these pieces to the laser cut shortkit with out a lot of cost. I have taken 7 plywood pieces out to cut cost as they are slow to cut and you pay by the minute.

The turtle back is basicly vertical laminations sanded to shape.

This is still very much in the ruff stage. The light blue is the paper I used to make templets with. It is rubber cemented to the balsa and removed before gluing.

[PipesCS]

On the landing gear I have been cosidering that the 1/8th gear wire may be heavy. I had used this on the PT 19 as it was unbraced. Any experience with this area?

[PipesCS]

Last night not a thing was accomplished as life got in the way. I am building a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby Track for the local Den.

The work on the wing is coming along and having built the same wing for the PT-19 I have no excuse as the only thing different is the tips and added brace for the landing gear

The wings are actually interchangable in how they mount as I did a simple cut and paste using AutoCAD of the entire center section of the model. The Fuselage is a little wider to meet the needs of the Gee Bee so the radio and Batteries will have more room to work with.

A what if Picture of the Gee Bee with the PT 19 wing in Army markings

The horiz stab is the plywood pattern I cut to form the laminated stab edges around.

[PipesCS]

The wing can be built in a day if you have the dedicated time. Not much of that around my house.

[PipesCS]

Here are some not so great quality photos I was able to come up with on the original

Paint Scheme is Bahama Blue on Cream with Red Pinstripe.

When I look at the model even though I am building it as a sport electric (Standoff Scale) I feel it is awful boxy in shape. But looking more at the photos I am finding it really was a stuby small plane

[PipesCS]

3/4 Frontal

[PipesCS]

For those who might like to build this model but don't care for the Blue on Cream there was also a conversion on the one and only Model C version that brought it up to a Model D done back at the Gee Bee factory. It was in the more accepted Red on White.

[PipesCS]

Managed to get quite a lot of work ont he wing last night

The center section is only going to be planked out to R-1 on this prototype. Once again I am fighting weight. For this same reason there is no D Box structure.

I was also able to fit the Shear Webbing last night.

[Gerryy]

looking real nice! SHould be a great looking model when you are done! I don't know where you are located, but Henry "Mr.Gee Bee" Haffke, will be talking at the WRAM show this Feb. 23 - 25. He knows all the colors and logos by heart. If you want to contact him, here's his address, which he said was OK to give out to Gee Bee lovers.

Henry Haffke
2560 Route 9 Lot 48A
Malta, NY 12020-4298

He's a real nice guy and very helpful when it comes to documenting any of the Gee Bee aircraft.
GY

[PipesCS]

Can you provide an e mail address?

[Gerryy]

Oh Henry is too much of a traditionalist to have email! I wish he did, but no such luck!
GY

[PipesCS]

I am located in Northern Alabama Just south of the Tennessee border in a little town called Lester.

I will get him a letter off in the mail tomorrow. Thanks for the address.

I am growing concerned that I have not been able to get any input from my fellow scratch builders out there. I have never met a group of modelers that didn't have anything to say on how to do something different.

Oh well

I changed the plans today to show planking out to the ends of R-2.

Only reason was that it looks better. The wing flies nice on the PT-19 but needed a little more sheeting as the Gee Bee has a wider fuselage. The photo above shows this prototype. As I get to the point of covering I am going to order another kit with all the changes to the cut parts and have a friend at work build it to look for last minute changes.

I am also still sanding on the nose blocks as I don't care for the look yet.

[PipesCS]

Last night I made a decision to give up on Iron on Coverings. I have reached the saturation point on the subject of wrinkles after letting a model set in the sun.

This is the PT 19 after flying the day before yesterday.

I just cant see building a nice model and then having to deal with this.

Based on this I made up my mind to try something I have not done in 30 years.

Silkspan being lighter than silk was the covering of choice in my 1960s childhood.

Last night I covered a rudder off the PT 19 second prototype with it and this is it after two cotes of nitrate dope and one coat of sanding sealer.

[Gerryy]

When ever I post a build along, I usually go to the other forums and drop a note to tell others that the string exists. Sometimes it stays and traffic comes to check out the progress. While other forums such as RCU, have deleted my notices saying they do not want the traffic deverted away from their pages. This happened recently when I was just trying to answer someone's question with a "How To" I posted here on RCZone. Oh well, we are trying to grow our forum but it will take time. Most think Model Airplane News having its own forum space is a good thing.

GY

PS: I have heard that if you spray a light coat of "AquaNet" hair spray onto a model, it will make iron-on material stick better. I haven't tried it yet, but might make a test panel to see if it works.

[PipesCS]

I am enjoying it. I Beleive RC Scale is for the serious scale projects so I shied away from it.

By now most people following this should have realized I am not some great modeler. Just a normal guy who wants my models to at least look like something and fly well.

This Forum has driven me to do nicer work and of course I feel the need to have a nicer finish than usual.

[Gerryy]

Don't sell yourself short! Too many people out there who are too happy to do this all the time! I find that taking photos and keeping a forum build-along going keeps me on track and I actually get projects done a bit quicker! THough I have not been burning up with the bristol Scout D project. I was hoping to have it ready for the WRAM show at the end of February, but this is in question! I will have it assembled and complete, but I doubt I will have it covered and detailed by then!
We'll see!
GY

[PipesCS]

Managed to get some sanding on the wing done and started mounting the hatch magnet holddowns last night. I am hoping to finish the wing this week end and have it ready for covering.

[PipesCS]

I am using rare earth magnets from Radio Shack for hatch hold downs. They are a carry over from the PT-19. I am looking for a supplier that sells them in larger quantities as Radio Shack gets 2.00 for a pair. A little on the pricey side but work well

[PipesCS]

These are those photos you take from time to time to keep your motivation up.

I figure the female pilot figure will be appropriat as more than one lady pilot set records or won races in various Gee Bee models. Maud Tate being the most famous. I thought she might be a little large but I am ok with it as the original Model D is only 17 feet long.

I am still torn on the covering issue.

[PipesCS]

Well I am going to have to take a break.

Tomorrow I have to fly to San Diego for a week of work and this next weekend take the wife on a trip to see a play at her old school

I did get a little time today to start the covering. I could not bring myself to cover it in any type of iron on. I am taking the time I have in the hotel at night to make all the corrections to the short kit and hope to order another short kit from John at Topnotch Products this next week to let a friend build a proof model before closing out the plans effort.

[PipesCS]

This is a frontal shot showing the gear in the scale position. I left the landing gear blocks long as they were on the PT-19 so you could opt to move the gear outboard to a wider track in desired

Naomi the Pilot figure looks about right when you consider the real plane was 17 feet long

[PipesCS]

The art of silk span must not be dead. I found Rocket City Hobbies my local hobby shop carries it in stock along with all the Sig Products to use it.

I am putting it on with nitrate dope using two cotes on the bare wood and then one over the silkspan. I have mixed up sanding sealer and plan on two light coats of that. I am not going to be looking for a high gloss heavy finish but plan on trying to airbrush on the cream and blue using latex which I have had good luck with.

[PipesCS]

I am on travel today but was able to locate another photo of the Model D from the Port Side. This photo really shows the small size of the original and the Panther Logo.

This photo makes me realise I don't have enough rake to the angle of the front cowl. Not a problem it just means I need to take it back to my bench sander again.

[tandemairbike]

Fine job and beautiful airplane.

[PipesCS]

Thank you

It is coming together and on the side I am writing a how to step by step that i will hopefully be able to post. We go home tomorrow but the wife has plans for me all weekend .. Maybe monday night I can get on with mounting the gear.

[PipesCS]

I have designed the gear to be glued internal to the wheel pant upper fairing with the inside wheel pant to be removable to give access to the wheels.

This requires accurate bending of the gear to fit within the trough that the laser cut inner pieces develop.

The inboard side fairing will be glued over the wire traping it inside. I am planning to use goop or silicon glue to glue the wire to the wood.

[PipesCS]

I have finally went with the outdated use of silkspan and dope for the finish.

Managed to get the rudder and tail covered today.

[tandemairbike]

Greetings Mr. Pipes;

Would you please take a minute and drop down one thread in this forum to "Organ donor". and advise if my weight and wing area are okay for the motor I am using and if my cooling looks okay.
I would greatly appreciate it.
Tandy

[tandemairbike]

Probably the reason no one has offered any alternatives to your methods is that you are doing everything right!!!

[holderdd]

Here is a good website for magnets. I bought a few from here for the same purpose.
http://www.engconcepts.net/List_Of_Disc_Magnets.asp

I would love a set of PT-19 and GB plans. They both look great.

[PipesCS]

Managed to get into the shop a little tonight and get the thing on the scales. I am at 26 oz rightnow with the ailerons and elevators along with covering and paint. It will be close to get it to come in at 30 oz

I am still trying to get as much extra weight off as possible.

Will try to post photos tomorrow.

[PipesCS]

Well I would like to say the wheel wires went perfect and that the laser cut wheel pants dropped right in place. While this is true of the first gear I did not get my bends perfect (Like it ever happened before) and had to do a little tweeking on the angles to get the model to set level wing tip to wingtip.

All it took on the wheel pant was to open up the 1/8" wire slot in the wood with an xacto knife to get the angle correcte on the pant.

On of the mods I have made thanks to input from Greg Perscell was to have alignment pins so that the inside half of the wheel pant is removable. This helped alot in holding the pants together during ruff sanding prior to mounting the gear.

[PipesCS]

Here is a motivation shot I took this morning to keep me going.

The shaping on the wheelpants is going to have to wait a few days as I am going to tackle the pushrod for the elevators and rudder. Then I will be able to finish up the fuselage and start its final covering. As you can tell there is a lot of sanding left to do. The headrest and turtleback area still need block work.

The last large projects are the windscreen shape, ailerons and the two elevators . I also noticed in the photos I need to finish bracing the wing tips.

As with all models the weight is going up too fast for me and in all the wrong places. I need tail weight so I may make the two elevators solid although I dread the final weight. I am also kicking around building up the ailerons instead of the solid ones I used on the PT-19

The goal is to fly during March if there is a break in the weather.

[PipesCS]

Well weight is driving me crazy. I know the PT 19 original gas version flies well with an empty weight of 29 oz and takes off with 4 oz of fuel.

I had a personnel goal on the Gee Bee of 30 oz and it looks like I may miss it on this first prototype. I put everything in it and it is coming out at 28 oz tonight with solid elevators and ailerons to put weight aft. I still need to cover it and some fairing blocks are needed on the tail

As to the nose being heavy I have already moved the servos on the plans aft .5 inches and am looking at a way to add strength to the motor block with stringers and cut down on the hollowed hatch blocks. I may be able to remove a little more by going to smaller landing gear wire as they are the heaviest things on the model.

To get me up to speed I have added 7 oz of lead to the electric PT-19 bringing it to 30 oz. It has the same wing as the Gee Bee actually less area as the ailerons and wingtips are larger on the GB. I figure a little test flying at the higher weight cant hurt.

[Gerryy]

The Gee Bee is looking pretty good! Weight is a tricky part of the equasion. My 38 inch Bristol so far, while weighing everything seperately and adding it all up, including motor system, drive battery, radio gear and hardware, (not including covering,) is now at 14 oz. So I think I can come in at the my estimated 16 to 18 oz. ready to fly weight. the laser cut wood supplied by my friend was very light to begin with anyway!
GY

[PipesCS]

My work is continuing to get in the way.

I have managed to get all the major components built and started getting everything covered in silkspan. I managed to do the elevators last night so most of the tail section is now covered.

Project for the week end is to finish hooking up the flight controls to the servos and then start the final covering on the fuselage.

The wing tip braces and mounting the servo and linkages is the last things to do before the wing is finish sanded and covered.


If the wind here in Northern Alabama ever stops blowing I plan to fly the PT-19 with the extra 7oz of lead to see how it handles. It will be my warm up bird to get me up to speed before the first test flights on the Gee Bee.

I will be in Maryland next week working so I will be able to finish the plan changes to finalize the drawings.

One thing I am looking into is trying to lighten the landing gear. Each gear/wheel/fairing weighs around 2.5 oz by it self adding 5 oz total to the model. They are the greatest weight gain over the PT 19

I am looking at reducing the wire to 3/32 from 1/8 and making some of the laminations 3/16 vice 1/4. As you can see they won't be that much thinner.

If I was really serious I guess I could make a vacuformer here in the shop to make the pants out of plastic. head rest too for that matter.

[PipesCS]

:) :) Once again there is peace in the universe

I was able to get out this afternoon and fly the loaded down PT-19 off the grass over at a friends house.

I left the 450 E Flite motor along with a 1650ma LiPo 3cell battery set up as it was originally with the airframe at 30oz. It took 7 oz of lead to bring it up to that weight. At the end of all three flights the motor was luke warm and the battery showed no heat at all.

It took off and climbed with no problems and the only noticable difference was that the vertical performance was not what it had been at the lesser weight. Needless to say that was expected. As to handling it was rock steady with plenty of power. The stall was normal and on landing approaches it was as steady as ever without a lot of speed build up.

If anything the weight helped it handle what little wind we had.

So with that problem off my mind I can finish the Gee Bee knowing it will fly at that weight.

Of course it will have the 480 motor which can handle quite a bit more amps to give it more power. The 450 is limited to 14 continuous amps where the 480 can take 22 amps.

For the test I had it limited to around 11 amps static. I am sure it unloaded in flight as the motor was no where near as warm as it would be at that current.

[PipesCS]

I mention the Pt-19 from time to time so here is a photo of it setting next to the GB. It has slightly less wing area due to tips and aileron but is in fact the same wing with slightly different gear mounts.

It flies with a 450 which is over kill as a 400 would pull it fine. I limit my battery current to 7C after talking to the people at Thunder Power on how to extend the life of the LiPo batterys This puts the current at around 9 amps in the PT-19. I am looking at using 2100ma batteries in the GB But will do the test hops with the 1650s I have on hand now.

[PipesCS]

:)

Managed to get some silkspan on the fuselage today and only got one complaint out of the wife over the smell. I called it quits today before I end up on the couch.

Tried to rig up the rudder, speedcontrol, reciever and motor for a taxi test to descover I had a bad reciever, and speedcontrol. Forgot the reciever was bad last year and made the mistake of putting it back on the shelf instead of throwing it out.

Off to Maryland next week for work but hope to save enough to get new speed control and ESC to replace the bad one.

The wind shield turned out easy and I now have it drawn in on the plans. I cut one from the side of a 2 liter Dr. Pepper bottle and it looks as though it will work.

I continue to hope that everyone by know realizes I am no master builder. I just reviewed a web site were a guy in Germany is building a 3.5 meter long SU 27 Jet. He has 72 pages of photos of a total work of art. I on the other hand build them to fly knowing I will end up crashing them.

There are only two kinds of airplanes. Those that have crashed and those that eventually will...

If you are in this hobby you need to know that and always be building one to get you over the last one.

[tandemairbike]

I totally subscribe to your concept of back-up aircraft.
Your asessment of either has crashed or eventually will crash is undisputed. I know of only one exception to this rule. That was my Kwik-Fli III that I built from a Graupner kit back in 1974 that finally succumbed to oil soak (despite thorough epoxy treatment of engine and ful tank compartments) in the summer of '06. I can't complain. 32 years is a long time to keep a regular Sunday flyer.
Over the winter I have built or assembled seven airplanes not counting the electric experiment I am currently dealing with. It will be interesting to see how many planes I have left next fall.

Don't beat yourself up sir. You are a very good designer and builder.
I am not as good as I used to be when I was younger and my eyes were better and my hands steadier but what I build still flies good enough for me and that's what the hobby is all about.

[PipesCS]

The trip is not turning into a total waste. I have managed to get a lot of changes into the plans that have worked out during the building of the prototype.

The changes have mostly centered around cutting weight on the landing gear along with making them more user friendly. I have realized the 1/8" gear wire is over kill and dropped back to 3/32"

I also flipped the servos to the rudder and elevator over to get straighter runs back to the control surfaces. They had been mounted upside down in the PT 19 for space reasons.

Here is a new shot of the plans. I will be ordering a new kit tomorrow to do a second prototype in he markings of the C model that was converted to a D configuration. It has the standard red and white paint job that everyone associates with GB aircraft

[Gerryy]

nicely drawn

[PipesCS]

Ordered a second kit with all the changes in it from the first prototype.

One thing you have to love about TopNotch is that I ordered yesterday and got the notice it shipped today. Should see it on Monday.

[tandemairbike]

Hi Pipes SC;
Did you manage to avoid the tornados in your neck of the woods?
My wife and I remember the victims in our prayers.

Could Top Notch cut a kit for the westwind from the drawing you sent me?

Tandy.

[PipesCS]

Tandemairbike

He would but you would have to pay for his time to do the work ups.

I can work up the cut order for you.

I entails taking each piece of the project and lifting it off the drawing to transfer it to another drawing which is in effect what the computer will use to cut each piece with.

Let me look at the original work I did for you and see what it will take.

I belive it would cost you about 30.00 or less for him to provide the materiel and cut out all the parts.

[PipesCS]

Well I can tell by the look in the wifes eyes that it is time to close up the can of nitrate dope.

I have the wing covered in silkspan and only have the two wheel pants and ailerons left to cover.

I am going to cover the wheel pants in 1/2 oz cloth and the ailerons in silkspan.

I guess monocote and other iron on coverings were developed by modelers wives.

I must say I am enjoying the process of silkspan as it takes me back to the 1960s which was the last time I used it. I believe it must have been 1968 as that was when I was in the eighth grade and built some control line combat wings.

Will try to post updated photos and weights tomorrow.


I have also decided to do the second prototype in the red and white scheme that was on the only other Model D built. It was infact a Model C that came back to the Granville factory to be converted to a Model D. This required the changing of the tail and wheel pants.

[tandemairbike]

That would be great.
30 bucks is a bargain since my hands aren't as steady as they used to be.
I've reached the point where I cut each part a little oversize and then use the sanding block to bring it into the line. This isn't easy on some shapes.

I would appreciate it if you could work it up and email me his address so I may send him a check when it's done.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

The wind screen worked out well and is now on the plans sheet. I cut the original from a Dr Pepper 2 liter bottle but it will also be provided by John at Top Notch Products. It will be cut from .050 plastic I believe.

The silk span is coming along and I only need to spray on about 2 more cotes over everything.

Final sanding on the wheel pants is dragging along.

[PipesCS]

I have been lax on adding photos lately

Here is the Servo mount for the Aileron. It is a dry fit done just prior to putting the Silkspan on.

[PipesCS]

The next few post I make will be a little on the Regressive side as I am going to start the second prototype and take a better set of photos to document a how to paper I am developing to go with the plans.

I need to take a moment and give an atta boy to John Valentine at Top Notch Products on this recent order. I placed the order last Thursday and recieved and e mail that night that the kit would ship on Friday. It would have been to the house on Saturday exept our mail lady in Lester Alabama could not fit the box in her car that day. It arrived today after she called and said she would leave it on the back porch. Good thing John packs them right as I found the box up against the far fence where the wind had deposited it.

Here is how he packs them.

The short kit gives you a little over 90 parts

[PipesCS]

I would also advise all people new to AutoCAD that are learning the process of laying out parts and working with the offsets required to work with laser cutting to contact John as he is an excellent teacher.

By working up your own plans and cut orders you are not charged for his time other than the materiels and actual laser time.

[PipesCS]

Last but not least I found out you cannot by Nitrate dope in spray cans.

This means I have to set up a spray gun on the porch as the wife is not going to buy the smell in the house.

If this thread suddenly stops I may have gone too far...

[PipesCS]

For those of you who might be interested the final bill just arrived from John on the laser cut short kit.

Materiels were $15.00, Laser time was $39.84 with overnight shipping being $5.00 bringing the total to $59.84.

He does not print copies of the plans at this time.

I am going to start the second kit tonight to see if my weight savings can get an ounce or two off the total weight.

One of the things I have been talking about with John is the laser cutting of the monocote sheets to include all the scalloping and N numbers for the all red paint scheme.

[PipesCS]

To all those people that say a doped silkspan covering is lighter that an iron finish I beg to differ.

I am about half way through sealing the silkspan and the wing is already 1oz heaverier than the PT 19 wing which is done in a light version of Monocote.

Looks like I will come in about 5 oz over my originl weight which while may not make it a bad flyer will still argrevate the tar out of me.

The second prototype will easly com in under 30 oz with the iron on finish..

[tandemairbike]

Have you used Balsarite under your iron on covering to prevent bubbling and lifting? I find it works to some degree with most coverings but not worth a darn with Black Baron 21st Century fabric which won't stay tight no matter what I do.
Usualy only one coat does the trick which doesn't add much weught.

I swapped a vintage Homelite chainsaw for a Great Planes J-3 Cub ARF covered with the 21st century fabric over the weekend. What a mess.
It looked like a yellow prune when I got it and the wrinkles would not all come out with either the iron or the gun. Actually the quality of the whole plane seemed lacking compared to the two Phoenix Models ARFs that I recently finished. No wrinkles there. The landing gear firings on this cub are a bad joke as are the wing struts. Only reason I swapped for this thing is the OS FS70 that came with it.

You may be increasing the weight with the silkspan or silk and dope but you also have a stronger airplane than one covered with film.

My wife's objection to the smell of dope is the only reason I went over from silk and dope to iron on film.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

I managed to get the last cote of dope on the wing last night (Needs more but I am calling it quits due to weight) and started the number 2 prototype landing gear which have been lightened by going to smaller wire and thinner wood on one of the layers.

One thing about the second prototype shortkit. By changing how some of the parts were cut and removing some of the plywood parts I brought the short kit price from 78.00 to 59.00 This includes Johns shipping and handling.

One of the changes I made was to add marks on the wheel pant farings to be alignment marks in making up the pant. It gives you reference as to were the 3/32" parts glue to the fairing.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU MAKE A LEFT AND RIGHT LANDING GEAR

IF YOU DON'T WHILE IT WILL NOT BE A CATASTROPHY IT WILL CAUSE YOU TO HAVE THE REMOVABLE PARTS OF THE PANT ON THE WRONG SIDE OF ONE OF THE PANTS.

What you are looking at is the troughs made up for the 3/32 landing gear wire to fit into. I am hoping by going to the lighter wire to cut an ounce off the total gear weight.

PS THE LOWER LEFT PIECE IS NOT MARKED BUT ACTUALLY GLUED UP FROM TWO PIECES TO DO AWAY WITH THE COST OF BUYING 4 INCH WIDE BALSA STOCK ON THE CUT ORDER. IT WAS ONE OF THE WAYS I BROUGHT THE COST DOWN.

[PipesCS]

After gluing the 3/32 pieces to the fairing it is a simple task to use a 1/4 inch dowl to align the pieces when glueing up the pant.

These two photos show the first 3/16 lamination (It is notched to clear the fairing) and then the second layer. The outer layer is not drilled for alignment as it is sanded to the final shape.


I have already made up my mind to use this lighter set of gear on the first prototype that is silkspan and doped to cut its weight.

The nice thing about working with Top Notch is that you can reorder seperate sheets for another set of wheel pants.

PS DOWLS ARE NOT GLUED IN AT THIS POINT!!!!!

[JumpMarine]

Looks good Charlie! You just had to tell me about this tonight...now I've got the itch to build something.

[PipesCS]

Is that you Ryan?

[PipesCS]

Last night I spent most of the time putting coats of sanding sealer on the fuselage but took the time to weigh the motor and flight pack.

The 480 E-Flite Motor, 25 amp ESC, 3 HS 81 Servos, Hitec Micro 55S reciever, and 1650ma battery weighed 12 oz with the same set up and the 450 E Flite motor with a 15 amp ESC weighing one oz less.

I have been flying the 450 with a 10X5E prop which maxes out at 11.5 amps in the PT-19 on a static ground run. I checked this with an Astroflight wattmeter.

The 450 is rated at a constant 14 amp max.

The 480 I have yet to use is rated at 22 amps constant. I will fly the test hop with an 11x7E APC prop

[PipesCS]

Tandemairbike

I have completed the drawings for the Westwind wing and am starting onthe tail section. do you want me to go ahead and draw in an elevator system? The original was single channel with a fixed elevator.

[JumpMarine]

Is that you Ryan?
Yes sir.....

I had to tell Dad and Lyle about it this morning at the coffee shop. They are both interested in watching your progress. Lyle still has that L5 in restoration in his shop. It's about 85% complete. As old as he is getting, I'm not sure if he will finish it or not. I think that when you last saw it, it was about 30 or 40% finished.

[PipesCS]

If you look at the scratch building section of this forum you will see the first electric I co-designed with a friend. It uses the same wing with different tips. I can be build a little easier than this one.

[tandemairbike]

Charlie;
you can draw in the elevator if you like but it is not really necesary. There are no stab parts that have to be lazer cut. The only thing that has any shape is the tips and they're simple enough to do by hand. Everything back there is straight sticks including the stab/elvator seperation line.
You can go ahead and do what you want to do. I will be satisfied with the result I am sure.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

In between sanding and adding coates of dope to the Gee Bee I have started Gee Bee Number 2. Here is a shot of the lightend Landing gear fairings. I also managed to get the fuselage going on it also.
The pant on the left is the new one being somewhat narrower. It will also use 3/32 wire instead of 1/8th.

[PipesCS]

Put it all together to check weight and to do a power check. Came in at 32 oz with all the dope on it. I will put on very light coats of latex for the blue and cream. a friend has recommended a lighter reciever and wheels.


The silkspan looks nice but is in fact as fragile as ever.

On the power check I decided to limit the power to 15 amps for the first flights

16 amps would be 10 C on the battery I have. It looks like power is not going to be a problem as it wants to pull away vertically out of your hand at the 16 amps. Might have to pick up the 2100ma early just to see what they weigh

[PipesCS]

As the dope is drying long enough to let me shoot the latex color coats on I am starting to find things I missed and am unhappy with.

the head rest needs more shaping and the aileron linkage needs more work.

The second prototype fuselage is framed up along with the battery hatch and wheel pants. I will try to start its wing this week also.

Mean time stillworking onthe small details of Gee Bee One.

This the fuselage and hatch of the Gee Bee two.

I did not make any changes here.

[PipesCS]

In the quest for weight reduction I am trying a new receiver and Electronic Speed Control.

I purchased a Castle Creation's Microstamp 4L full range receiver. It comes recommended by Rick at RC Hobby Barn of Huntsville (My local shop) along with a Venom V Series 25 amp Speed Control. Both are stripped down without hard cases and are quite a bit lighter.

The Castle Creation receiver is 4 grams and will replace a 25 gram Hitec 555.

The Venom weighs 22 grams replacing an Eflite 25 amp unit that weighs 30 grams.

Total weight savings will be 1oz

This sounds trivial if you are use to 6 to 20 pound gas models but in the electric world every gram counts. This is one more oz I can put into a battery or paint weight.

[PipesCS]

I have also just had a discussion on the cost of the laser cut kit from Top Notch.

Yes $60.00 will by you a completed ARF and in some cases will get you a ready to fly complete with radio.

It is a given that a model builder cannot possibly build a model cheaper or faster than another person can assemble an ARF. But the two different task are a world apart. The extra cost in tools alone would buy many nice ARF model. Come to think of it I have yet to accomplish the finish on a project that appoaches the quality you can buy today. (OK I admit I have had 3 ARF,s myself and all looked great and flew nicely. Well may be not the two Gee Bee's by Kyosho. Although beautiful they needed more expertice than I possess to fly them constistanly.

Don't get me wrong as I feel in many ways the ARF industry along with the rise in popularity of the Electrics has changed the face of the modeling industry by bringing the masses to modeling.

But as a modeler develops having started at the ARF level he has two choices. Stay in the ARF or RTF level (Nothing wrong with this) or he may develop into a builder. Usually come kits and eventually Scratch Building if the Bug bites deep enough.

Some serious modelers feel it is not scratch building if you buy a short kit and that your must cut all your own parts.

To this I guess I would say "Is it really scratch building if you did not cut your own balsa tree down and saw out the planks."

So with that said I am reviewing the plans to ensure I have drawn all the parts to a degree that a builder could cut his own from sheet wood if he doesn't want to fork over the cash to buy the 90 precut parts from Top Notch.

[PipesCS]

Putting the skin on the hatch. The skin comes in two pieces that are joined and then added to the frame work. I did it dry although I am told wetting the top side of the sheet will make it easer to bend.

I did it on the edge of a table as the sheet is slightly large to allow extra.

The cutout for the cockpit is marked on the surface of the skin to aid in cutting out later. It was not cut thru to ensure the wood would be strong enough to bend.

This is acomplished by use of the color magenta on the cut order. the cutter uses colors in its software to control strength of the beam so part numbers do not burn all the way thru.

[Gerryy]

$60 is a very reasonable price. As for the definition of scratch-building, That old arguement is still kicking around. If I design and draw the plans (on CAD) then send to a laser-cutter for the pieces, I still scratchbuilt the design. At least that's what I think. Snob builders will argue just for the sake of the arguement
GY

[tandemairbike]

If there was some place to send the plans to for laser cutting 30 years ago I would have scratch built alot more than I did.
As for those who claim purism, well maybe their true hobby is nitpicking rather than modeling.
My .02
Tandy

[tandemairbike]

CHARLIE;
Watch your mailbox.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

This is a photo of the new receiver and ESC that will replace my old stand by equipment. Total weight savings is 1oz which interestingly enough is the same amount of weight I am gaining going from a 1650 battery to a 2000 ma.

[PipesCS]

Gee Bee 2

Managed top get the turtle back finished and the headrest base on

[PipesCS]

Started painting the wheelpants with cream along with the fuselage.

[JumpMarine]

Happy Birthday Charlie!

[PipesCS]

Hope you are feeling better.

[PipesCS]

Still painting. Lot to be said for iron on finishes at this point...

[PipesCS]

OK

New photos tonight Travis.

It looks pretty bland at this point as it is all cream colored.

I have been advised to get all the cream done and to let it set for at least a week prior to masking for the Bahama Blue and red pinstipe.

Any modelers out there care to talk painting with Latex??

[tspoon]

Letting it set is a good idea, I didnt let the pitts set but a couple days at most,although I didnt have any major problems it did pull up the base coat in a couple of small places, luckily for me I was able to hide them with pin striping.

[tspoon]

The F4B-4 is at Gregs house waiting for me to get time to paint it. I plan on putting the base coat on all in one day then letting it set for a week or so then painting fuselage stripe to avoid the same mistake.
Travis

[PipesCS]

Ok this is looking a little scary

I know everyone on this post exept for Terry in Maine and Gerry at MAN.

I guess Gee Bee builders are getting quiet.

[PipesCS]

Well here are the photos I promissed on the cream colored latex paint. I am shooting it with an airbrush

It is Sherwin Williams best indoor simi gloss thinned with Blue windshield wiper fluid (it was recommended by Model Airplane News and really did not alter the color) along with Flotrol to help it spread.

The finish was two cotes of nitrate dope on the wood. The heavy weight silkspan from Sig was applied wet painting nitrate dope thru it to glue it to the wood. I understand the new coat softens the under layer setting up the bond. After the silkspan dried I put on two more coats of nitrate dope and 2 coats of sanding sealer. The latex took 3 powder coats to cover.

I only knowed 4 holes in the wings while going thru the covering process and have become quite good at patching it.

The wheel pants are the only thing not covered in silkspan. It would not make the curves. I used .06 oz glass cloth which also filled with the same number of coats.

[PipesCS]

This is the Castle Creation Receiver that is taking the place of my reliable old Hitec 555. It is 3/4 oz lighter and is billed as a full range unit.

I am writing a how to that will accompany the plans.

I will be on travel this next week for 6 days in Maryland with my work.

The plan it to finish the plans, an article for publication on the subject and an illustrated how to do it.

I am ready to get closure on this one and move on to a Model Z. I would like to use the same wing, slightly modified wheel pants, horizontal tail and power system. It will be a slightly advanced model for me as the fuselage will be full round using stringers on the sides.

Interestingly enough I have found the Z model with its 450 horsepower engine was infact smaller than the D model.

[PipesCS]

It has been a good day then a bad day then a good day and finally a bad day. So over all its been a normal day at my house.

I took the Gee Bee out for a taxi test which went well. The total weight finally came to 32 oz which I am happy with. All systems checked good in the driveway but while bending over it some change in my shirt pocket fell out and punched a hole in the silkspan making the 5 patch I have needed to do. On the way back into the house I bumped the back door with it making another hole.

I decided that enough is enough, I started to strip the whole airframe and decided to cover the model with something else. This is just too much hassle.

At that point I decided why not fly it before I tear it down. So off to Greggs house for the test hop. Oh yea I should mention the wind was 10 to 12 today.

Checked the Cg, control throws and decided to do the first take off on the grass.


The Gee Bee was up instantly telling me power is not an issue. I had too much elevator and almost snapped it in on the first turn.

Once I settled down I ended up with a few clicks of left aileron and that was about it. I would say I am going to have to take out about half of the elevator travel as it will snap on a dime at full elevator.

Managed a 5-7 min or so first flight that proved it is not the PT-19 that is decended from. while it tracks and flies as smooth as the PT-19 it is quite a bit more powerfull It had no problems in the higher wind than I would normally have flown it in. It will loop and roll with no problems from level flight which was flown for the most part at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.
I managed to slow it down to a walk up high and while it is not as sweet as the 19 it will still float.

I would like to discribe the landing but we never got to that. I had not properly secured the battery and it and the hatch left the model at about 50 feet up. Interestingly enough there was not one hole in the wing silkspan after the crash. I ended up with some broken glue joints where the tail joins the fuselage sides.

I have started pulling all the silkspan off the model and repairing some glue joints that failed.

I am now looking for information on the lite vesions of covering that I can use on it and the second prototype.

Overall exept for the hard nose down landing that has cracked the fuselage in places I had a great day.

I always hate a crash but h aving proved it flies and flies well I am now hot to put all the improvements into the second prototype.

[tandemairbike]

Charlie;
For a tough, light covering film you might check out Coverite 21st century Microlite film. Large choice of colors, low heat,0.6 oz/sq.yd.
It's designed for electric powered planes.
I used it on a vintage Sig Scamp that I bought on ebay. I used Balsarite on the balsa surfaces under this film and it never bubbled. The film covered the foam wing without melting the surface of the foam.
See the Tower catalog page106 for further info.

Coverite also has a film called Coverlite tissue. This is as light as doped *** tissue but stronger.
It is listed on the same page as the Microlite.

Hope this info is helpful.
Keep up the good work.
Tandy

[PipesCS]

Well having let myself relax with the family and having re-lived the first flight over and assessing the damage altogether today was not as bad as it first seemed. I was able to repair most of the damage to the fuselage in about 30 minutes. It still needs a few small pieces fixed but still not more than an hours work total. The wing came out with out a scratch (Not one hole in the silkspan) along with no damage to the wheel pants.

First thing on the agenda is to clean up the work bench to recover it on and to keep working on the Gee Bee II.

At first I thought I might push thru on the Gee Bee II and use the Gee Bee I wing to get it finished. Decided tonight to repair the first and finish the second for the articile as planned.

As to the covering I have some Coverite Lite here that requires you brush on the adhesive prior to ironing it on. It will be my first attempt and I have also been recommended Solor Tex which I will see in Maryland next week.

In reviewing the test hop I realise now what happened. Gregg ask me to make a low pass so he could get a head on shot and I decided to pitch over to bring it in at shoulder height. At the pitch over point the hatch left the model and I made the comment I was going around to bring it in. I never really had control as I went into the turn to go down wind and heard Gregg say the battery was hanging out of the battery compartment. At this point is was going from a high nose up stall and with any correction it dove. I finally cut power as it headed straight down. Reason for the crash.... Battery was not held down, I had only built a box to keep it from shifting around... Never dreamed I could flip it out of the model. After the flight Gregg bought me lunch.

After being told some where around 12 times that it would not have happened If I had just used something like a rubberband to hold it down I have come to the conclusion that Gregg is not going to be able to let this go...

Gregg has a photo or two of the flight but I have yet to see them.

I will post what he has.

Over all I was supper happy with the flight. (Not the end) It is no Park Flier that is for sure. Definitly a nice flying electric sport that is quick with plenty of power.

Slowing it down up high I did feel the landings were not going to be an issue. While not as sweet as the PT-19 at 23 oz it is a nice flyer which at 32 oz and having twice the power is fun ....

[PipesCS]

Well enough whining about the first test hop.

All the damage to the Gee Bee I is reparied and I am in the process of sanding all the silkspan off and getting down to the wood to put on an Iron on finish.

I went to the hobby shop and purchased Solar Lite in cream, blue (too dark for scale but the only shade they carry) red and white.

This evening I managed to get the wing panels built up on the Gee Bee II.

One of the steps is to notch the leading and trailing edge for the 1/16" ribs. To do this you can use a hand saw but an easier method is to use a 1/16" kerf saw blade set 1/16" high on a small model table saw.

I pin all the strips together and cut them all at the same time.

The saw I use is by Byrns Model Machines along with a thickness sander he makes.

http://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/sander.html?id_mm=0322MM539850 is the address.

[PipesCS]

One last note.

I have seen many build alongs that peter out after the author has a bad first flight. You never here about the repairs and find out later they gave up and moved on to a new project

We are in this for the long haul...Scratch building means repairing also..

Back to sanding on the Gee Bee I

[PipesCS]

Th9s is one of the new mods that came about after building the Gee Bee I.

I added materiel on the sides of the built up landing gear blocks as the originals were too narrow to put in the screws for the gear straps. I could have made the blocks larger but want to keep the weight down. The vertical blocks are built up of 3 layers of ply and are tabbed into R-1.

These are shots of last nights work which amounted to building the wing structure and laying up one wing tip bow.

I managed to make the blocks this morning before my Honey Do list got started.
As to why the blocks are built up. When I drew up the PT-19 I had hard wood blocks that you had to make on a small table saw as they are not a standard size. I realize the average modeler today that builds kit or ARFS probably hasn't got access to a small saw so I redrew the plans for a built up part. They are in the short kit.

[PipesCS]

This photo is not too flattering as the covering is still being removed but I am posting it to show the Gee Bee I is still going strong.

Back to sanding...

[tandemairbike]

It seems that in this hobby we are constantly reminded that repairing is as much a part of it as building.

.02

[PipesCS]

Well in our rush to fly once again only one photo was usable. I have elisted the services of a professional photograper to catch the next attempt.

Have to travel next week but did get some test covering on the hatch of Gee Bee I Not usre I like it. Bob is going to show me some different covering next week..

[PipesCS]

I will say looking at this photo complaring it to the one above on the taxi test is hard on a guy. Oh Well.m

Off to the sons soccer practice. Taking the wing to sand on it...

This will be the best sanding finish I have ever done.

[tandemairbike]

I sure miss the days of silk, dope and rubbing compound to put on a finish you can be proud of.
Silk and dope are had to find nowadays and when you do you have to take a second mortgage to pay for it.

[PipesCS]

I have found the best way to get the silkspan off is to sand it till you get to the paper and then use laquer thinner to soak it off.

Probably should say something about fresh air and gloves for protection at this point.

[PipesCS]

Having to leave on the job for a week (Hope to get Tandemairbikes kit finished and the Gee Bee Drawings done on my lap top.)

I have managed to strip the majority of the Gee Bee I using the laquer thinner. Only have the tail feathers to do. decided it would be quicker to make new ailerons and elevators vice stripping to old ones.

On the Gee Bee II the wing is framed up needing tips, sheer webbs and final shapping of the leading and trailing edges. Started laminating the bows for the wings and tails..

Managed to glue up the nose blocks for the top motor hatch. I set my table saw to cut the right length of 1/4" balsa to laminate up a nose block. It is too much trouble to work from one block. I get a good fit on the first layer and then run off 10 on the saw to stack up.

[ghee-grose]

Ok Charlie, I had to get on this thread and check out your work. VERY nice build you got there! I could only dream of doing something like that. :D

Gary

[PipesCS]

Managed to find a sample of solartex up here in Maryland. I have ordered a color called linen that matches the cream I want. It is light enough that the freeflight people are using it. I ordered a 2 meter roll and will paint the scalloping on with the blue latex.

[tandemairbike]

Tried to open your message.
Clicked on link and got only a list of forum members.
Found yours and clicked on it and got access to your profile.
How do I open your message?

Tandy

[tandemairbike]

Still getting used to this new email account.
I didn't scroll down far enough first time.
Your message was there in front of me but I couldn't see it for the trees.
Tried to email you back through Radio Control Zone but got a message that you don't allow emails that way.
Cost is okay. Go for it when your ready.
Thanks.
Tandy

[PipesCS]

Terry I spoke with John at Topnotch Products and he should get the project out to you today. You probably wont see it till Monday...

I had him go ahead and print you a copy of the plans which was 10.00 as he is now having to charge a 50.00 minimum on small orders.

Going home today.

[tandemairbike]

Thank you Charlie!
I appreciate you doing this for me.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

Well I am back home and after a couple of Honey doos I am back to work.

Tonights work has been to finish adding the blocks to the nose of Gee Bee II and working on the sanding of the Gee Bee II wing getting it ready for the solartex I have ordered.

These are the photos of hollowing out the nose blocks on the Gee Bee II

Saw some samples of it in Maryland and while is is not as light as the silkspan I am going to give it a try. I am going to use a color called linen which is a good shade of cream. Planning to airbrush the blue using the latex I had mixed up earlier.

As the wheel pants may be a little ruff to iron the fabric around I am tempted to try to match the paint to the new fabric and just spray them...

[PipesCS]

Waiting on the covering to come in.

Most repairs on the Gee Bee I are done and the Gee Bee II is coming along.

[PipesCS]

Still no covering. Getting depressing.

Had a really nice phone conversation with Henry Hafkke today. We talked for some time on his designs and the colors involved with the D model. The colors are Bahama Blue over Tucson Cream with a red pinstripe. I believe the color chart is the Randalph color chips.

I had shown the tips being glued up around a plywood former previously but on the Gee Bee II made a change to the plans so the original formers didnt work. (Found out after glueing up two tips.)

This is the quick and dirty method that works just as well. You cover the plans with wax paper and then line the inside curve with straightpins to bend to and then hold the laminations tight with pins o the out side till the strips dry. Then take them apart and apply woodworkers glue for the final glue up.

[tandemairbike]

Charlie;
The Westwind kit arrived about fifteen minutes ago.
Outstanding work by both you and Topnotch.
Thank you much for this project. :wave:

[PipesCS]

Boy that was fast as he said it went out of Tennesse yesterday morning.

I did not have the same luck with the covering from Balsa USA. I called this morning to find their system had no record of the order. I was irratated and wanted to fuss but the young lady was so nice and got it corrected and is express shipping it at no extra charge. I sometimes hate it when people are nice and you can't yell.

By the way I am also carring this discussion on the RC groups site also. Interestingly I am getting feed back from a few different folks. I will recommend to the builders to come to this site also.

[PipesCS]

post photos of the westwind kit as I didn't order one and am curious how it turned out. You should start a thread.

[PipesCS]

Still no covering

Putting the wingtips on the Gee Bee II along with laying up the laminations for the tail group.

At this rate the Gee Bee II will be ready for covering at the same time as the Gee Bee I

[PipesCS]

Still not Solartex..

The Gee Bee II will be built by the time it gets here.

Managed to add the Sheer Webbing, wingtip bows, build the vert and horiz tail and am sanding on a wheel pant today.

It is Easter though so looks like the work has to come to a stop as the food is coming out at the motherinlaws.

[tandemairbike]

post photos of the westwind kit as I didn't order one and am curious how it turned out. You should start a thread.

I lost the photos of the laid out kit in my computer somewhere. Have not been able to retrieve them.
Here are photos of wing parts and progress on fuselage. Fuse parts slid together flawlessly.
I made some minor modifications. Decided on built up fin instead of plywood unit.
Opened rear three bulkheads to clear pushrods and relieved F-2 to fit Sullivan round 1 OZ. tank.
Still waiting for the engine to arrive. Should have been here by now.

Thickness guage and servo mounts a nice touch.

[tandemairbike]

Trying photos again!

[tandemairbike]

Don't know what's wrong. All of a sudden my photos will not upload. :mad:

[tandemairbike]

looks mlike I might have it now.

[tandemairbike]

My engine is not coming.
It seems that the person who listed it on Ebay did not own it. Pay pal should refund my money but that still leaves me without an engine.
The Norvels are no longer in production, I'm told.

[PipesCS]

How do you like the thickness guage he includes with the kit.

You don't appear to be half stepping on the construction.

Did the tabs and slots on the fuselage side work out?

[PipesCS]

How about going with a 370 size out runner in it. You could make the area just in front of the cockpit removable to make it easy to put the battery in it.

[PipesCS]

Hope to get home today to find the covering on the porch that I ordered

[Gerryy]

Hey, here's that Gee bee repair article you were looking for!

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/onlinearticles/res_bplane.asp

[tandemairbike]

How do you like the thickness guage he includes with the kit.

You don't appear to be half stepping on the construction.

Did the tabs and slots on the fuselage side work out?

The thickness guage and servo mounts that were included are awesome.

All the tabs fit smoothly into all the slots.

Whenever I can, I retreat to my little workroom in the basement and once I start working I get carried away and keep going until I have to quit for some reason or another,( honeydo, bedtime etc.) Because I am building this for myself and not for publication, only occasionally does it dawn on me to take a picture here and there to post. I had five nice shots of the fuselage parts laid out and of the fuselage sides after glueing the doublers in place and one of the first three bulkheads installed. There was also a shot of the relief I made in no.2 bulkhead to clear the fuel tank and The alteration to the rear bulkheads to clear the pushrods. Somehow my fat fingers hit a wrong key somewhere and I lost the photos before I could post them. Unfortunately I had already deleted them from my camera. Lesson learned there. These computers are not as forgiving as a Cub.

I am going ahead with glow power as originally planned on this model. I am thinking I might go with EP on a second copy depending on how successful I am with my experimental EP which for no good reason I will be calling the "Watts This?"

One of the guys in the club says he has a Wen Mac .049 with an exhaust throttle and if he can find it he'll donate it.

Weather still too lousy to maiden the Watts This. 15 to 25 MPH winds around the clock. We're underneath a stalled upper air low so the coditions are not going to change real soon.

[PipesCS]

Covering came in and with luck I can start the process.

[PipesCS]

Tandem

Is that Ambroid I see in the back ground?

[PipesCS]

Life is getting in the way of modeling again. I got the covering last night but was unable to do anything with it. Maybe not till this weekend. Plan is to do the Gee Bee I wing so I can experiment with my airbrush painting the blue scallops.

Hope to post photos soon.

[tandemairbike]

Tandem

Is that Ambroid I see in the back ground?


No . It is SIG -MENT. It is an acetone-celluloid glue similar to Ambroid. I use it for laminatig balsa. It gives me even more time to correctly position parts than thick CA, and guarantees complete surface coverage. I have had some parts glued with thick CA that delaminated because the glue did not leech completely.

Next to it is my little CA bottle holder. Even when full, these bottles are top heavy and are forever falling over. This little holder cures that problem.

[PipesCS]

Hey Austrailia are you out there?

[tandemairbike]

Hey Austrailia are you out there?


Pssssst! Only one i in Australia :teacher: LOL

[PipesCS]

Actually I was trying to spell Austria as in where Vienna is.

I was born in Texas and learned to spell in the Marines.

[PipesCS]

The solartex came and as people have said appears to be a little on the heavy side. Its going on nice as I have done the vert and one horiz stabilizer. It is a good cream color.
It is looking like I want it so I will need to save all the weight I can in other places to make up for the gain.

Pictures tonight.

[PipesCS]

Managed to start the covering last night.

I am not totally happy about the weight of the covering but it looks great.

The turtle back on the Gee Bee I having been damaged by the crash does not look as good as I would like.

It was designed to be covered prior to glueing on the head rest and that is not doable after the removal of the silkspan.

I plan to cover the Gee Bee I first and see what the total weight is prior to doing the Gee Bee II

[tandemairbike]

Actually I was trying to spell Austria as in where Vienna is.

I was born in Texas and learned to spell in the Marines.

Nuff said!

[PipesCS]

Im back

Have not been able to post photos as I can no longer access this site from work. Uncle Sam has decided al forums are security risk.

My dial up at home makes this slow.

Here are the photos of tonights work. I have the wing covered and a few panels on the fuselage.

Due to the covering coming off after the first incident I had to improvise the seam where the headrest meets the turtleback. Not too happy with this.

The plan is to recover the Gee Bee I to get a feel for the weight of the covering . The first Gee Bee flight with silkspan weighed 32 oz. I will put it back as it was to see how much the solar tex is going to add.

I am off to the paint store to get a new qt of cream mixed up.

I have the Randolph Paint chips I ordered so I will also buy a new qt of blue as I was off quite a bit. The plan is to paint the wheel pants in a cream to match the linen colored covering so that I do not have to try to get the covering around all those curves.

[PipesCS]

I am not sure how this will look as I had to shrink it for this site.

It is the graphics a friend worked up after looking at Henry Haffke's book. I will send it to anyone that is interested.

He did it in various sizes to help me with the scale.



It is a JPEG

I have to recheck the photos in the book but I think the panther is reversed on the right side of the fuselage to be looking forward.

[PipesCS]

Manfred I will send the Panther to you in tomorrows photos.

[PipesCS]

I was wrong. The panther faces aft on the right side of the plane. It is clearly shown in Haffke's book in the section on the D model.

[PipesCS]

Un an running again.

After covering the Gee Bee I with solartex I now remember why I went with silkspan first.

I cannot cover for ^$^%$^%$. If I am going to do things like this I need to partner with someone I can mail the model to and get it back finished.

HMMM, sounds like I should go to ARFS or RTF.


These two photos wont impress many people but if you had been standing there last month when it was sticking out of the ground in a corn field you would understand.

The wheel pants are still in the original cream I used. I went by the paint store and had them mix me a qt of latex so I can paint them to match. With a whole qt it looks like I need to build Haffke's qtr scale next.

[tandemairbike]

Looks OK to me, Charlie.

Before you go feeling too bad about it, just remember what Jonathan Livingston Seagull went through before he achieved perfection.

Just keep plugging and it will turn out alright.

Here's a couple of photos of the Westwind, Partialy rough sanded. Nose blocks partially roughed in. I will not be enclosing the engine to the extent shown on the plan as I am using a two line fuel system and will need access to the fuel line at the engine to fill the tank. The Wen Mac .049 is installed. I had to extend the firewall to clear the nose. This engine has a shorter than average shaft length.I have the right hand wing panel framed up ready for L.E planking.
Will post some more photos soon :)

[PipesCS]

Awsume

considering I had the kit cut last month you are moving right along.

I assume from your writing you built this out of the magazine back in 1958.

You really should have made this a stand alone thread to show the new guys out there how much can be accomplished from old designs that are out there in thousands of old magazines.

Any complaints or improvments to add to the short kit?

[PipesCS]

The wife let me play in the shop for most of the day and late into the evening after taking the kids to the movie.


I was able to get the paint out and work with it a while. The wheel pants are painted to match.

I mix the latex with a product called Flowtrol that slows the drying time and thin it with windshild wiper fluid to make it flow better.

I used a non scientific method of laying out the scallops which by the way I must admit to pirating the shape off of Mr Haffke's Y model plans

[tandemairbike]

I would not change anything with either the kit or the plans except for a full size template for the top half of the fuselage sides. I carbon copied the sides as shown on the plan and forgot to allow for the slant toward the top of the fuse. No problem behind the cockpit but I fell short on height in front where the angle is sharper and cut filler strips rather than make new sides. Waste not want not.
I will post a new thread detailing this project sometime this weekend.
I was thinking what a nice plane this would be if it could be blown up to 150% for a .46 to .60 engine, flat wing and semi or full symetrical airfoil.

carry on,
Tandy

[PipesCS]

We can do that. Which do you prefer? I have a .52 four cylcle that would go nicely in it.

[tandemairbike]

I guess everything will be on hold for a while. This monster storm we are experiencing has flooded my basement and it is going to be a major clean-up which will begin after the storm is over. What a @*&%+@ mess.

It's expected to keep up until tuesday PM.

[PipesCS]

Sorry to hear the bad news

Look forward to your photos of the Westwind.

[PipesCS]

Weighed the Gee Bee I and came in at around 33 plus onces. Trying to find another place to cut weight. The Gee Bee II with its lighter landing gear should come in better.

[PipesCS]

Recieved Mr Haffke's plans today for the Model D and Z in qtr scale.

Must put them away and not be distracted. It is pulling me already....

[tandemairbike]

Just like the 1/4 scale GEE BEE, we must put the 150% Westwind away for now. Just not too far away, perhaps.
By the way, how do I find your thread on RC groups?

[PipesCS]

It is a repeat of this one. It is under scale electric

[tandemairbike]

Yesterday, Friday the 19th was a beautiful spring day and, in spite of the 15 to20 MPH winds that were predicted, It was almost dead calm. Hoping that today would be the same, I charged up the radio batteries in my Lanier "Indicator" and sure enough I was at the ballfield at 7:00am and it was 40 degrees and climbing and dead calm. I managed to get in six flights before the little league showed up for practice and displaced me.
We are in a temporarily stable weather pattern for the next couple days so I am returnung to the ballfield tomorrow with a cameraman to practice filming the indicator and downlaoding it to the computer to post in the form of still photos.
This practice is being done with the Indicator so, hopefully, we will know what we are doing when it comes time to maiden "Watts This" and "Westwind" .
This is a photo of the "Indicator".

[PipesCS]

Work takes me to San Diego Ca tomorrow so I will be away from the bench for a few days.

The painting is coming along.

As I look at my capabilities after looking at other modelers work on this forum I wish I could say this was below average work for me, but to tell the truth this is the best Ive ever done from scratch.

Usually I get tired of waiting and fly it before I am finished. Wait. I already did that on this one didnt I.

I was hoping to be able to weigh it tonight but am out of time.

[PipesCS]

Have decided to go with the red and white scheme on the Gee Bee II.

It was a Gee Bee Model C that carried the number 855Y. The owner brought it back to the Granville brothers to have it converted to a D model getting the larger tail and sprung landing gear and wheel pants. The Number become NR855Y after that I an can find nothing to suggest it did not keep its red and white paint scheme.

I also have found information that the Blue and Cream was changed to Green and Cream prior to the loss of the aircraft. No idea on the shade.

[tandemairbike]

Here are some trial photos as mentioned in my last post. This is the Lanier
" Indicator". We took videos and captured still shots from them and came up with this:

[tandemairbike]

Here are more pix.

[tandemairbike]

Work takes me to San Diego Ca tomorrow so I will be away from the bench for a few days.

The painting is coming along.

As I look at my capabilities after looking at other modelers work on this forum I wish I could say this was below average work for me, but to tell the truth this is the best Ive ever done from scratch.

Usually I get tired of waiting and fly it before I am finished. Wait. I already did that on this one didnt I.

I was hoping to be able to weigh it tonight but am out of time.

For Pete's sake charlie. This is a hobby, not a craftsman's contest. Do the best you can and do it to satisfy you and only you. I used to wish I could be a better builder until I attended the1974 AMA nationals at Westover AFB in Chicopee mass.
In the R/C scale lineup I saw a few examples that I could have done better and fewer that were way beyond my capability. If you had commercial sponsorship and did nothing but build and fly all day every day then it would be upon you to be a superbuilder.
It's a hobby, my friend, as in: "enjoy what you are doing solely for your enjoyment."
If someone criticizes my building methods or skills I just tell them " If you don't like the way I do it, don't do it that way"

Your building skill as I have seen it is above average.I am sure the only one that's knocking it is you. Keep up the good work.

Flood's all cleaned up. Work on the Westwind will resume tomorrow evening.

[PipesCS]

Manfred

Have you received your short kit and plans yet?

[PipesCS]

Managed to get back to work today.

I spent my morning on the computer developing the graphics to make the decals. I decided to take the quick way out and print the decals using a ink jet printer paper sold by Testers. It comes in white and clear.

I printed the Panther on the white paper with the logo and N numbers for the tail on clear. After you print them you must seal them with a over spray that is really nothing more than clear laquer.

The Decals are water transfer. As the pages are large I printed many copies to make sure I had spares.. Good thing as I messed up about half of them.

Next big project on the Gee Bee I is to lay out the N numbers so they can pe painted.

For pin striping I am using Great Planes 1/16" red trim tape.

I have layed out the decal sheets on a power point presentation and will
e mail them to anyone wanting them.

[PipesCS]

Anyone have recommedations on a waterbassed gloss clearcoat to use over latex?


The Gee Bee II will be white and red. I ordered the white solartex last week and hope to find it at my hobby shop.

[tandemairbike]

Looks awesome, Charlie. :D

[PipesCS]

Managed to get a little time on the Gee Bee II today. Worked on the Hatch and finished framing up the fuselage.

Need the roll of white solartex I ordered to continue on. The turtle back, vert and Horiz stabs are to be covered prior to mounting the head rest.

Decided to reinforce the 1/16th hatch planking with another layer glued around the opening on the inside. It is 1/8 inch wide.

Found two adventurous souls to help with the proving of the short kit and plans.

One short kit went to Washington State and the other to Austria. Internet is unreal in its power to reach people.

[PipesCS]

A little depressed on the Model C to D conversion. I had come to believe Mr. Haffke's book that stated the Model C was brought up to the D standard including the landing gear. I have since found a couple of other references that state while it was broght up to the D standard as far as the FCC was concerned, it did not have the same wheel pant modification. These two photos show that.

I do not believe I will go to the trouble of building a different set of gear and will instead paint the Gee Bee II in the same markings as the Gee Bee I.

One will end up on my den ceiling with other models that are special to me and will hopefully out live me.

Only 3 kinds of model airplanes.

Those that have crashed.

Those that will crash.
Display models.



Bought the Frisket to try the N numbers and wheel Pants. Plan is to do the Pants first.

[PipesCS]

Well enough about the C model... Ill Get over it.

Put the Gee Bee I together and started reinstalling the radio and motor system. Bought new electronic fish scales as the mother in law needed hers back as fishing season is beginning.

All up weight has turned out to be 33 and 1/2 oz. I still need to scallop the wheel pants and paint the N numbers on the wing. I am thinking I will also shoot a lite cote of Nelsons clear coat over it to seal in the fabric and decals. Should come in at around 32 Oz.

Starting Monday I will load up the PT 19 to 35 oz with lead and give it a shot at the local flying field until I am comfortable with landing it on the asphalt strip they have there. I had done this with 30 oz and noticed no bad habits only that the 450 outrunner in the PT 19 limited to 11 amps did not climb like it had which is to be understood going from 23 to 30 oz. I will change props and set it up for the max continuos current of 14 amps for the test.

[PipesCS]

Well one more picture of the C prior to its conversion to a D.

Looks like all they did was to increase the area of the vertical Stab and rudder to get it to pass its spin requirement to be certified.

[PipesCS]

The Frisket did not work out so I am masking off using 3 M tape after tracing the letters onto the wing.

Will be on travel next week end so the actual painting of the letters will have to hold till I get back.

Taxi tested everything yesterday and will try to fly by the end of the month.

With any luck the temporary rubberband set up will keep the battery in place.

[PipesCS]

I have not given up

I have had to travel with an illness in the family back in Texas.

I am back and trying to get the N numbers masked out with 3 M tape to spray them.

[PipesCS]

I am back after my mom had to have bi pass surgery in Texas

Have started the Numbers and will try to get photos posted

A modeler in Austria has started one and I will try to post his photos tomorrow.

[JumpMarine]

I'm assuming that your mom's ok? Dad's plugging away at the GB. I'll snap some pictures and post them as soon as I can.

[tandemairbike]

Best wishes for your Mom's quick recovery.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

Made myself come in and get on the N numbers tonight. I also managed to do a little pin striping.

I am using 1/16 inch red trim tape to do it with as my painting skills are not up to that yet.

I also covered the stab on the Gee Bee II.

[PipesCS]

I have to stop a moment and beat another persons drum as he is does not have the time to post his work.

I have been looking for some one to build the first short kit to get an idea of the number of mistakes I have made in the design process.

Manfred Bohm in Austria contacted John at Top Notch asking for a Gee Bee Model D short kit and plans. Considering the risk and shipping cost I am most greatful to him.

John sent him the whole package along with a new set of laminating patterns to help with the tail and wingtip build ups. These photos show his progress and the use of the plywood molds John provided.

I have also sent him a build along document I started in which I am trying to show my work step by step.

Like all good modelers Manfred can't build it without trying to improve it. He has lightened up the model in the nose area by building up the hatches from sheet wood where I had used carved blocks. He also reinforced the tail.



I will post his photos as he sends them to me.

[PipesCS]

We're back

While the forum was down I got busy on what I now call the Gingerbread work on the Gee Bee I

I have the radio in and set up having completed a few taxi test and have set the controls to TLAR standards (THAT LOOKS ABOUT RIGHT).

Managed to paint and trim a little and am surprised how it is coming to the end. There is still a lot of clean up and paint touch up to get through with this one and I am not going to fly it till all the photos are taken this time. I promised myself to also get a photographer to get in flight shots this time.

Considering the model went in nose first on its first flight due to the battery coming out I am very happy with the finish. I hope to make the Gee Bee II the showpiece that will get hung in the den.

[PipesCS]

Just looked in my mail to find Manfreds (Lives in Austria) Gee Bee which I call Gee Bee III as it has some modifications that I changed since starting the first two.

Mods he has made are:

He has added a small strip below the head rest to help with covering

He has also added some reinforcing to the tail areas.

He has built the head rest to a more rounded shape and has lightend it with holes in on the inner layers.

[PipesCS]

Today I also sent the graphics to Calli-Graphics to get an estimate for a set of decals.

[PipesCS]

Spoke with Calli at Calli Graphics today and made arrangements for her to cut me a set of vinyl decals for the Gee Bee II. Should see them next week sometime as she is going to mail them out tomorrow.

[Gerryy]

You'll be pleased with Callie's work. She's done decals for me in the past and is now working on 1/3-scale markings for the Howard Ike racer Henry Haffke and I are teaming with.
GY

[PipesCS]

At the last minute I have decided to add a little more cooling outlet. I had previously used the cockpit opening on the PT 19 but realized this model only has the one cockpit and it is blocked by the pilot figure.

So I simply took a piece of brass tubing and added two quick and dirty holes to let the air out. Not too pretty but quick. I promise to do better on the Gee Bee II.

If you are wondering about the stressing I am doing it is all Gerry's fault. I promised him an article complete with photos.

Let me tell you this really puts the stress on you. It is odd that the posting of photos on this thread have been very helpfull and if anything keep you motivated to stay on a project until it is finished.

The idea that someone may publish it is altogether different.

Anyway I have arranged for photos this time prior to flying it and to get flying shots this time out.

[PipesCS]

I am also reviewing the drawings and short kit as John at Topnotch has decided to post the short kit on his website.

Should the plans be published they will be available thru the publisher and the short kit thru Topnotch Products.

[PipesCS]

I am fast running out of reasons not to fly the Gee Bee I again.

I could keep working on it for a month or two more but a good friend told me last night that you never finish a scale model. You just quit working on it.

Did the touch paint for a photo shoot this week having arranged for a friends daughter to shoot the photos.

To get me up to speed I have added nine ounces to the PT 19 that was the project prior to the Gee Bee. The wing is identical exept for tip shape and aileron area. The Gee Bee has a little more area.

The plan is to warm up with the heavier PT-19 prior to the test hop on the Gee Bee. The PT 19 has a 450 E Flite set up at 10.5 amps and the Gee Bee has the 480 set up at 22 amps. the weight gain by the way with the heaveir motor and speedcontrol is one ounce.

[tandemairbike]

Looks like it's all coming together nicely, Charlie. Keep up the good work.

Was going to fly the Westwind today but got rained out and my photographer has a family emergency of some sort which he was reluctant to discuss in any detail.

Maybe next weekend.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

I am having the same problem. My photographer is 8 months pregnant and I am nervous about taking her to the field.

[tandemairbike]

No problem.
Just bring a chaise lounge, a baby blanket and a propane stove to boil water on.

[PipesCS]

Time to put my vanity aside and be truthfull.

The photo session went fantastic but alas not the test flight. I must admit to haveing to go home and make repairs.

When asked if it was the models fault all I could say was, Guns don't Kill, Spoons don't make you fat, and planes don't crash. It takes a pilot.

When all was said and done I had too much droop in both ailerons which caused the Gee Bee to nose over on take off causing me to put in up elevator which turned into a giant porpose act. Not figuring it out on the first flight I put in up elevator and tried it again. Things got worse. What finally gave it away was the fact that the porposing only was happening under power and as soon as I backed off the power it would settle down.

Having not had this problem on the first flight a few months ago I did not figure it out till after damage was done to the wheel pants and wing.

Everything is back home and the worst of the repairs are done. At first I thought I would simply fly out the test program on the patched up model and build the Gee Bee II as the nice one.

Can't bring myself to do it. Tonight starts the recovering and re painting of the wheelpants and center wing where I had to repair a spar.

The photo of the Gee Bee on its back was the effect of catching the edge of the runway and actually did most of the damage to the right wheel pant.

As to the flight it was a blast. The 480 makes the Gee Bee extremely fast compared to the 450 powed PT-19. It will climb like a rocket.

I can tell this is the airplane that is going to teach me to pay attention on takeoff.

[tandemairbike]

Charlie!
You're giving me the willies.
Maybe I'll find some excuse to not maiden the "Watts This" and the "Westwind" this upcoming weekend.
Maybe Saturday I'll have to go get a haircut and Sunday I might have to mow my weeds.
Maybe a friend will invite me to play golf even though I've never played golf in my life.
Then again, maybe I'll look through my last two issues of MAN and see all the fun those guys are having and go fly anyway.
You never know.
While I am sorry for your mishap, I am happy for you that you obviously learned more about these flying objects.
Tandy

[PipesCS]

Hey even a bad day flying models is better than golf. Although I would have loved a wonderfull test hop the thrill is working out the problems that prop up and getting thru them.

I was sanding a wheel pant when I saw your response and making my mind up to go ahead and finish up the repairs to finish up the test program.

I don't feel it would be fair to submit the article on the Gee Bee until I have flown it 10 flights with no mishaps. Will post more of Tara's photos alittle later. She took them in a 4 Meg size and they need to be downsized substantually. Boy they show every mistake in the covering.

[tandemairbike]

I have read about drooped ailerons in model publications but never tried it.

I always set all my control surfaces at dead neutral for the initial flight and as long as the CG was dead on I've never had any problems.

I had a seaplane once(a flying boat type) and it had a leak in the hull under the stabilizr that I did not know about. It never leaked in my bathtub, but the first time I put it in the lake it started leaking. Now I took great pains to be sure the CG was perfect. Then I put it in the water and spent considerable time taxiing it around to be sure the water rudder was working OK and because it looked so darned good taxiing around in the water (all the while taking water in).
I finally turned into the wind and rolled on the throttle after a nice smooth takeoff the darn thing stood on it's tail and climbed to about thirty feet, stalled and came splat back into the very hard water.
I guess you could say I had a hydraulicly operated variable CG.

That's the charm of this hobby, just about the time you think you are pretty good something throws a dose of reality at you.

[tandemairbike]

There is a solution to the mistakes in the covering. You either be like Dave Platt and don't make them or be like me and don't get the camera close enough to the airplane that they show.

In the flight shot she looked nice and stable in the crosswind.
Very pretty!

[PipesCS]

Well it was not as bad as it looked. All the repairs are done and a few improvements that I had put off. The weight is up to 34 3/4 oz.

Replaced bent motor shaft which cost $3.99 for the part which I must say my local hobby shop which is RC Barn of Huntsville had in stock. I went ahead and bought a spare and another spare for the two 450 out runners I have.

Repaired the broken wing spar using a strip of hardwood and some .014 carbon fiber tape. Recovered the entire left wing instead of trying to patch it.

Repaired the right wheel pant that really only needed a large patch of balsa replaced in the front.

Repaired the broken wing mount block.

Replaced the rudder horn that was snapped off.

Replaced the Prop.

Reset all the controls and took out the aileron droop.

Taxi checked everything to ensur it was still working. Checked CG one more time.

It is ready to fly again

As the wind will be up the next few days I wll start to repaint the scalloping on the left wing and repaint the wheel pant.

[PipesCS]

All repairs complet and ready for the test to continue.

If the winds continue to blow I will slide it into the paint shop to repaint the wing and wheel pant.

[PipesCS]

Winds Still high.

Started painting and the left wing is completed and the wheel pant back to tucson cream. Hope to lay out the scalloping this week.

I will have the revised plans and kit make up delivered to John at Top Notch Products late next week should anyone want to jump in.

[PipesCS]

Things are once again coming together at the Pipes house

The painting is finished with a small amount of work needed to pinstripe one wheel pant along with a change I want to make on the battery box to secure the battery.

This is the damaged wheel pant with most of the wood having been replace in the front when I clipped the runway and flipped it on its back.

[PipesCS]

Well the Gee Bee made it thru a day of test with out a crash.

I had the help of one of the resident pros at the RCRC field over in Huntsville Alabama. I see now why people let others test there models as they are not nearly as attached as the designer is.

Wayne Davis helped me set up all the throws and expo percentages and I must say the flight went really well exept for the dead stick at the end due to us not watching the clock. The resulting off field landing resulted in flip over on landing which damaged the wheelpant I just painted. such is life.

Well as I said the flight went well but I am unhappy with the takeoff attempts. I know the model is short coupled but I feel the Gee Bee is a little over sensitive on the asphalt. As I we sat and discussed it today I made the decision to redesign the gear.

The axle is currently 1 1/4" forward of the leading edge. I have redrawn the landing gear this afternoon and started bending a new set of gear to move the wheel one inch back putting it under the leading edge to see if it will help its ground handling.

I am interested in any comments other designers may have on this.

[PipesCS]

Test flew the new gear after relocating the wheel under the leading edge. This was about one inch aft the original position.

While I am at it, I must give credit where it is due. I looked at Mr. Henry Haffke's plans and noted his axles are directly under the wing leading edge.


This morning prior to church I slipped out to the local ball field (Too Small, Too many light post, and too many trees) for a quick test. Still being a little rushed I was able to keep it straight with little effort and had a perfect flight.


What did surprise me is the fact that it is quite a floater on approach.

The patterns have been sent to Top Notch to produce the replacement parts for the two kits I have and for the two other builders in Washington State and Austria. (Yes I am paying for the parts and will be shipping you guys’ replacement patterns for the wire bending along with them)

I will be on travel for a week or so and will have to continue the flight test when I return.

[tandemairbike]

Glad to see you are having such good success with the GeeBee.

I,ve been working 12 a day, six a week these last few weeks and hope to get a break to fly my two projcts. Maybe over the fourth holiday.


Keep up the good work.

Tandy

[PipesCS]

Still on travel to Maryland and not sure when I will be home.

Will hopfully mail out the replacement parts to Austria and Washington as soon as I get home

[PipesCS]

Managed to get home last night but will have to go back out on the road again next Sunday.

Hoping to get a series of test in this week at lunchtime. I am able to get over to the flying field in about 10 minutes and get a flight or two in.

Hopefully the weather will work with me.

I spoke with John at Top Notch last night and he is sending me the wheel pant parts this week also.


While on travel I do CAD work in the hotel at night and have started the drawings for a Model Y.

I have decided that this forum was so much motivation to finish the D that I would start one on the Y from the beginning to show what is involved.

[PipesCS]

Too rainy to fly this week but did get a note from Top Notch that the wheel pants shipped today.

[PipesCS]

Well Top Notch came thru again today

I now have the new wheel pant parts and will mail out Manfreds set tomorrow for Austria and Ryans set to Washington State.

I do not believe I will let people try my plans again until all the bugs are worked out.

I have the first pant glued up which took about 20 min and have started sanding it.

[PipesCS]

Well I am packing up to travel with my work again but am trying to get the wheel pants a little farther along before I have to leave Sunday

The parts came in and some people are wondering why I messed around with having the parts cut. If I was only building one I certainly would not mess with lazer cuttin the parts but since John Valentine is planning on selling the short kit for it an the other models I have done I would not want to let it out without some sort of finish test. Hopefully this is the last change to the Model D as I am starting to get into the Model Y.

I hope to have the short kit for the Model Y ordered by the end of next week so that I can start the proof model of it.

Here is the rough sanded wheel pant on the port side and the starboard is glued up and being sanded tonight. I hope by tomorrow to have them both roughed out enough to start glassing them

[PipesCS]

Manfred in Austria continues to work on the Model D he is working on.

He also continues to make improvements that I am trying to add to the plans and short kit.

He has added two short half ribs on the sides of the wing servo to support the planking ends.

[Clipwing]

HeY Pipes!
just finished reading all through your trials and tribulations with the Gee Bee D---excellent ! excellent! you tell a good story of the development of your D/and have already started looking at your model Y thread. Just came back from up-state NY last week and spent a wonderful afternoon with Henry H. talking airplanes and life (have known him for some 25 years-fabulous person , designer, and historian. ) I am Henrys foil-so to speak he does Gee Bees-I focused on Monocoupes/especially the Model 110special clipwings!
Keep at it with your model Y , I've just started in with e-scale -having built large 1/4 and 1/3rd for a number of years/and a couple of Henry's 40 sized kits that used to be Coverite products--still fly one regular-a model E.(my all time favorite!!)
Even with the crashes--(learning curve).. you do a mean set of drafts !!! and your little GB is very slick! keep at it , and if could ever be of assistance drop me a PM.(located in Auburn,AL)
Regards
A.L.Lockrow/ aka Clipwing

[PipesCS]

I just noticed you live in Auburn,Al. I am living in Athens, AL. My wife is an Auburn Graduate and she has been trying for years to get me to visit there.


I am going home today and hope to get the Gee Bee Model D painted for its last photo shoot and then on to general flying

[PipesCS]

I have the two new landing gear and wheel pant built and have put on a layer of .5 oz glass using dope.

I did this to only cover the grain, not so much as to give strength.

I put the first coat of sanding sealer on last night and the wife almost ran me out of the house. Looks like the last two coats will need to wait till I can go outside today. Sometimes I'm not sure she knows who the head of the household is.

Here are a few new shots of Manfred's Gee Bee. He continues to make improvments.

Must say his building gives me a better level to shoot for.

His model will be quiet a bit stronger built than the original and I am weighting for the final weight he comes in at.

[PipesCS]

I am painting my pants and Manfred is moving on up.

I have asked him what he is covering with and how he is doing the blue.

[PipesCS]

Manfred in Austria is getting close to his first flight. He told me today he is coming in at 27 oz where mine after putting a fabic covering and going back to Williams Brothers Wheels has crept up to 35 oz.

still not bad for a 43 inch span model.

I taxi tested the new wheel pants today and it tracked much better. I believe I have got it to the point where an average flier can take it off.

[PipesCS]

Looks like its time to call out the photographer. :confused: I hate flying in front of a photographer

[PipesCS]

My Model D is up and ready again having modified the wheel base and adding quite a buit of toe-in to help with the swing on take off.

Manfred is approching his first flight also and has further modified the gear by shortening it.

It amazes me how two modelers can who build from the same plans or kit can come up with two different finished products. When you show up at the field you have the only one like it.

This is a feeling that ARF fliers may never come to know.

[PipesCS]

:(Had trouble getting these to upload.

This is Manfreds and needless to say I am envious of his workmanship.

By the way he is still working on the paint and is not finished.

[PipesCS]

I am even more envious of the yard in the background.

[PipesCS]

Flew the Model D yesterday afternoon. Actually I took a mental health day from work and went to hide out at the flying field.

Very nice day with 4 good straight take offs. One landing in the grass ended in a nose over but the other two were on the asphalt. I did ground loop one landing but nailed the last one.

I am not getting the time off from hunny do's or work as I had wished this year so the Model Y is slowing down but is entering the covering an paint stage.

As a note I am going to call Callie of Callie's Graphics and add the wing numbers to the decal package. They will not match the Randolph paint chip for Bahama Blue but it will be nice to be able to match your paint to the decals vice painting the wing numbers. After all it is standoff scale.

[PipesCS]

Still looking to give these plans to anyone that ask.

Send me an email to charliepipes@bellsouth.net and I will email out a PDF version that you can have printed.

[andy120]

Do you think a Hacker A30 S28 will be suitable for a powerplant?

Thanks
Andy

[PipesCS]

I am unsure 0f what a Hacker A30 S28 is. I am one of those uneducated people that got into electrics quiet by accident and was lucky enough to have a hobby shop owner who made recommendations.

I started out with the E-Flite 450 in a Carl Goldburg Tiger 400 using 1320 ma 3 cell LiPos and then moved this motor into the PT-19 that is 43 inches wingspan with a weight of 23 oz. it pulls 10 amps with a APC 10x5E prop.

When I designed the Model D I took the same wing with different wing tips and ailerons. The increase in weight came about due to the increase in the fuselage size and the added wheel pants. For that reason I stepped it up to the E Flite 480 motor with a 2000ma 3cell Lipo by Common Sense Batteries.

The motor is rated at 22 amps constant and I have it set up for full throttle with an APC 11x5E prop to pull 20 amps.

What does the Hacker numbers look like?

Today I flew it on what I call the end of the test period. I have the trim right, throws are were the should be and I am able to do straight take offs on asphalt with consistancey. (That part came more from practice than design change)

With the 11x5 it moves much quicker than the PT-19 and flies like it is on rails.

I need to finish up the model Y as I feel it will fly better right off the bat as many of the changes that came about in the Model D are in it.

[PipesCS]

Well other than trying to find some photos of it in flight to post,this is the end of the line for the forum. Well that is unless some of the people that requested plans decide to add to it.

The original Prototype has made the last 10 flights without a glitch. Of course a lot of that came from me settling down and getting use to it.

WEIGHT:
The final weight of the prototype came to 36 oz. This being much higher than I wanted but I caused my own grief. Manfred has built his to 29 oz in Austria and I am sure it will fly even nicer than mine. The major increase in weight came about in that I went with a heavy wheel from Williams Brothers (They looked cool), I used an iron on pre-painted fabric called Solar-Tex for the basic cream color and then airbrushed the blue using Sherwin Williams Latex house paint. Again Manfred used a light film that while it did not match the Bahaman Blue it still looks great. A real dedicated modeler could use the carved wheel pants to make molds for the wheel pants taking even more weight off. The wood pants alone add 5 oz to the overall weight.

CONTROL THROWS:

Rudder……………………..1/2 inch left and right
Elevator…………………….3/8 inch up and down
Aileron…………………….. 3/8 inch up and down

Did not use dual rates.

CG: On the prototype mine is coming in at the leading edge of the spar. It might be a little nose heavy at this point and I will continue to play with it. At this point it is fairly stable and shows no bad control issues.

POWER:

It is powered with the E-Flite 480BL Outrunner rated at 1020 Kv. The motor was meant for models with a weight of 30 oz but I must say it pulls the extra 6 oz. on the Model D with no problems. I settled on an APC 11x5E prop that gives it excellent climb ability and plenty of speed. I limit the current to 22 amps full throttle static using the ATV function on the transmitter. It is very scale in flight spending most of the time at ¾ throttle.

The Speed control has been changed as I experimented from an E-Flite 25 amp to a generic 30 amp from china. (Both worked fine).

I built the battery compartment for quite a range of batteries but have been using a 10C, 2000 ma. 3 cell LiPo battery Manufactured by Common Sense Batteries. After my average 7 minute flights the battery and motor are only warm to the touch. I have yet to do a good timed flight and meter the charge to see how much I am actually using from the battery. A 10 min flight should be doable. Next move up is to a 15C battery.

TAKEOFF: After the original mod to move the wheels one inch back there was once again peace in the world. The model was totally unmanageable in its original configuration. All takeoffs since the change have been on asphalt and I have had no problem keeping it straight. If you can fly off very short grass it is even nicer. It is definitely not a good first airplane or first tail dragger trainer.

Flying: The Model D is by no means a rocket but it is faster than anything electric I have. I pulled the 11x7 off and replaced it with the 11x5 as it was faster than I needed. It climbs with authority and likes flying up to speed. Being short coupled it will spin nicely but has to be made to do it. I have yet to experience any kind of un-commanded snap when using elevator. The model flies best in winds under 5 to 6 mph. Loops from level flight are not a problem with plenty of excess power. It is not a 3d type and looks best doing rolls, large loops, spins and wing overs.

Landing: Landings are pleasant to say the least. The only note is that it prefers a long flat approach with a wheeled landing. I have tended to bounce it pretty high on my attempts at three pointing it. With the new wheel configuration it tracks straight on roll out.

Once again if you want the plans send me an email to charliepipes@bellsouth.net and I will send them no charge.

My concerted efforts are now going into the Model Y which has a lot of the changes from the Model D in it.

[PipesCS]

Just a short note. The Gee Bee has a few more flights and I thought I might add a few thoughts.

If I build another I will add a little right thrust to the motor as the short coupling needs all the help it can get. Takes a lot of rudder on climb out.

Talked to John Valentine at Top Notch Products and his cost on the short kit is $50.00 with a set of the plans printed off being $12.00. This is a good price on the plans as even if I email them to you it will cost you around .75 cents to a dollar a sq.ft. to print them at a local print shop. They are 3'x6' giving you 18 sq. ft.

The Model Y is slowly moving along. I started covering the tail section tonight but was immediately was interupted by a honey do...

[Gerryy]

Pipes, all your builds have been very enjoyable. You must need a break after all this building! John Valentine is a great guy and his quality is great!
GY

[windy city]

Pipes,
Guess I am in for a penny or a pound! :D
Just got the short kit and plans from Top Notch Products today.
I just gave it a quick look over, Man does John do some nice work!
All the parts look great and very clean!:cool:

I have one on the bench now (~90%) and one more kit in front of this one.
(I need some more building practice! LOL) But I should start on this one before the months end.
thanks for the effort!
windy city

[PipesCS]

Windy City

I started a new set of instructions to go along with the plans. I will send you a copy from my work as it will be a larger document. If you don't mind I will get you to proof it.

The Goal this year is to clean up the plans and input some corrections and suggestions from you guys that have been brave enough to try it.

I need to get some inflight shots this year also. Every time I hooked up with a photographer what I really needed was a kite.

[windy city]

Pipes,
Sounds good to me! I need all the info I can get for this one.
As I build and fly smaller planes. (5oz- 12oz)
This will be the BIG ONE! LOL
windy

[PipesCS]

Working on a new set of drawings to lengthen and improve the buildability

Also thinking of modifing it into one of these

[PipesCS]

Forgot the photo

This is a Model E at the Nationals. It is basicly a Model D with an engine change to a 125hp radial.

[PipesCS]

Trouble with photos this morning

[PipesCS]

This is the Model D at the same race. I scanned these at the National Archives Photo section earlier this year

[PipesCS]

:D:DI started the redraw on the plans to put in the changes that were recommended by other modelers to improve its contruction and flying

Fuselage is to be one inch longer with the fuselage more rounded on the bottom. Did away with the stick built fuselage and went with sheet wood.

Most of the changes are to make better use of the laser cutting so that less labor is required.:D:D

John at Top Notch will soon be offering it as a full kit with any luck.:wave::wave:

So far it the redraw has brought the parts count up to close to 300 laser cut parts which will make the wing all cut parts.

[PipesCS]

Ordered a new short kit from TopNotch. The new design has over 300 parts cut now on 15 sheets of wood.:teacher:

Started at noon today having to take time out to take care of two sick kids missing school today.:(

Build the tail feathers first as they are reworked in the MadRob method. I had them glued up in less than an hour. Quite an improvement from the laminated tail bows as far as time. :)

Started the fuselage and managed to get it to the motor blocks. I am trying a set of cowl sheets on the side of the fuselage that will sand out with the motor but leave a cowl line at the back. Mostly for looks.:)

Lastly the new decals also came today. I had Callie of Callie's graphics work up a complete set including the wing numbers this time. Initial cost with shipping was 20.00. Callie appologized due to the price hike. (two dollars more) Face it with the prices of everything shooting through the roof this is still cheap for the quality you get. Had them less than a week after I sent her the new designs. Can't beat it in price, quality and speed of service.:wave::wave::wave:

[CalmAir]

Looking good Pipes!

[PipesCS]

One change in the model has been to add detail to the nose. I have added the cowl lines to the hatch and nose. Not sure how this will turn out

Managed to build the tail, fuselage is framed, Hatch is framed up, one wing framed and tip installed, both ailerons built up.

Going to take the wheels off the first prototype which has been placed in the archives room hanging from the ceiling. I will replace them on the first prototype with the set that did not work as they were too far forward.

All this is to get this one in the air before winter sets in and it gets too bad to fly...

[PipesCS]

I have not taken all the photos I had wanted but have at least been able to get down to the shop.

The major items are framed up and the sanding started. I actually started covering the elevators tonight

Tomorrow I am off but am determined to go out with the Model Y in the morning before the wind gets up. Bad part is that I have no one to photograph it. You will either see a smiley face with a shot of a complete model or a frownie face with wreckage photos.