View Full Version : Project Team Associated TR3 (TC3 truggy) 56k warning
There is the bj4 , tc3"0" ,and a couple of other people have made tc3 buggys .I like the 4wd buggys mainly the body and the fact that it is 4wd. I don't like their low ground clearance which is not the best for bashing.I want the ground clearance of a staduim truck and the stability , but the traction ,ease of driving, and the looks of a 4wd buggy. SO I am making a TR3 ( tc3 truggy)a ultimate basher.It will be as wide or wider then a typical stadium truck,have 2.2 wheels and tires,be as long or longer then a stadium truck.But in my eyes a really truggy deserves a buggy body so to top it of I will put a xxx-4 body on it.I started this project awhile ago and its almost complete here is a alist of parts that are on it:
t3 rear a-arms
t3 turnbuckles
t3 shocks
t3 servo saver
t3 rear hinge pins
t3 rear shock tower in the front and the rear
t3 cvds
masher 2k2's on t3 rear wheels
ntc3 diffs
tc3 drive shaft
xxx-4 body
hpi rs4 mt c-hubs and hub carriers
t3 rear a-arm mounts
Custom Lexan upper and lower deck chassis
t3 rear shock mounts
t3 rear shock tower mount
tc3 "0" slipper
t3 rear shock tower mount
I still need to drill holes in everything and cut a motor mount,chassis stand offs, the a-arms to replace the t3 ones, the shock towers to replace the t3 ones, and other small parts.Here are so pics. Let me know what you guys think. If you would like to view my building process and my updates over the last couple of weeks you can visit my website at www.freewebs.com/eds24/
If you would like to view more pics you can go here.http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/ Peace Ethan
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/12-27-06244.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/12-27-06245.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/sidetr3.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/fronttr3two.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/12-27-06243.jpg
balang_479
01-27-2007, 04:29 AM
looks cool. ..
XXWoodmanXX
01-27-2007, 08:03 AM
Meh. The oversized tires look a little stressing on the motor. Too much rotating mass. I say stick with the standard 1.9" T4 mini-pin tires and go from there.
Yea. I probaly won't be running that motor in there. I will eventually run pin tires for raceing but for now I have ot use these. There all I got. Peace Etahn
hijacker
01-27-2007, 02:18 PM
I think with the final gear ratio that the stock diff gives you, you are gonna run into problems with truck tires. Otherwise it looks really cool!
Even if I run a t4 spur gear and a slipper? Its not shown in the pics but thats what I would be useing. Peace Ethan
XXWoodmanXX
01-27-2007, 03:56 PM
Even if I run a t4 spur gear and a slipper? Its not shown in the pics but thats what I would be useing. Peace Ethan
Even with the stock diff. slipper "breaking" with a loose setting, it will still be applying LOADS of current to the motor, equalling LOTS of heat. I would definitely recommend dropping the diameter of the tires you plan on using. Other than that, I'd LOVE to see a long-arm version of the TC3.
I did the same thing with a Tamiya TA02 sedan chassis. :)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/roy_woody/S10Wide.jpg
'Stang = stock TA02 and S-10 = TA02 w/ Manta Ray long-arms ;)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/roy_woody/TA02herd.jpg
I am actually useing a slipper clutch made for the TC3 "0" I will just have to see when I get a esc and the motor. Peace Ethan
http://rcproductdesigns.com/images/DC-031.JPG
z-man280
01-27-2007, 04:50 PM
looking good...
i seen you stated the tires were only for mock-up. My suggestion would be the Pro-line Evil Twin 2 buggy 2.2's...on all four corners, go big on the spur, and try it. Geared at the extreme end, smallest pinion, largest spur, you will have a good basline to see if you can gear up, which i bet you can.
Yea right now I don't have money for tires and wheels. I really want to be able to run these m2k's so I will see about gearing when I get the titan 12t and the streak esc. Idk becuase I don't see it won't work with like 87t since the tc3 buggys use about a 64t. Ofcouse I don't know much about gear ratios though. Peace Ethan
z-man280
01-27-2007, 05:16 PM
87 from a 64??? yeah, you should be just fine.
hijacker
01-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Ron, you don't think those huge tires will put too much load on that motor and possibly damage the esc?
Ethan - what esc are you going to run? Does it have unlimited motor capacity?
Chad
my bad ont he spur. Its 78t on the tc3 "0" i think and i would be useing s 87-90t one. I would be useing a duratrax streak with a titan 12t motor. I might have to use a regular titan 550? Since of the bigger tires. The Streak is rated at 12t. I will be running 8 cells also. Peace Ethan
balang_479
01-27-2007, 06:58 PM
Woodman that truck is awesome...
hijacker
01-27-2007, 08:03 PM
Ethan - I think if you run that esc at its limit with those monster tires on the truck, you are gonna fry the esc. It will just be too much load on it. I avoid running a limited esc at it's limit even with ordinary touring car tires on it, just too much risk of smoking it.
how much for the truck body?
Hijacker-Since the titan 12t is 550 size its actually equal to a 15t 540 motor.
Ezm- huh? Do you want to buy somebodies truck body? Are you talking to me or Woodman?
Peace Ethan
ElectricThunder
01-27-2007, 11:28 PM
Ethan - I think if you run that esc at its limit with those monster tires on the truck, you are gonna fry the esc. It will just be too much load on it. I avoid running a limited esc at it's limit even with ordinary touring car tires on it, just too much risk of smoking it.
The streak is pretty robust in my experiences (overvolted a 17 turn motor geared to the moon and it still survived just fine). And as already mentioned, a 12t 550 is not like a 12t 540, so amperage draw is not going to be near as bad as a 12t 540 sized motor. Higher voltage and a higher FDR (IE- small pinion and/or large spur) should help out with the amperage issue as well while still providing plenty of speed.
I think it'll all work out fine with the titan and streak on 8 cells TBH. Lookin' good EDS. I was following this project over at URC.:D
Yea It can handle like 10 cells or something. Yea I hope it works out. Its just something temparay until I can get a mamba max...Thanks man. Yea lol Peace Ethan
ElectricThunder
01-28-2007, 01:02 AM
It's rated for 10; I've run 12 on a 17 turn.:D Take THAT duratrax warranty! ;)
Wow man lol yea actually my exsperiance with my last streak wasn't all that great but ofcourse it was my first esc and well.... I have blowen up ALOT of escs and chargers. Peace Ethan
Tomarrow I will be cutting the a-arms,shock towers,motor mount,and chassis stand offs. On tuesday I should be drilling the holes. Peace Ethan
fasterthanspeed
01-30-2007, 10:13 AM
I think the body should cover the front diff. Also, since your gonna need a longer drive shaft, get one of the carbon fiber ones. take the ends off, get a carbon fiber shaft with the same inner diameter, cut to length, and epoxy it in there. (sorry for bad grammar)
The body is too short for that and I can't make the car shorter becuase the drive shaft. I don't need alonger driveshaft. The Slipper clutch takes up the room in between the rear diff and the regualt drive shaft.Peace Ethan
Today I Drilled holes in the chassis,mounted the servo and steerring assebly,mount the diffs. I also cut out a new cleaner rear shock tower and some a-arms. I have a question about gearing. The biggest spur gear I can find that will fit is the 87t the smallest pinion is a 12t. I was wondering which pinion you guys reccomend with the stinger motor or co27 ,8-10 cells, and the mashers?
Oh yea sorry guys for the lack of pictures. I don't have a Camera so I have to use my moms and she gets grumpy when I use it. Also all through this project I have worried and struggled with how to mount the a-arms close enough to the diffs so that the cvds will be long enough. I fixed the problem in the rear queit easily because the rea hub carriers keep the cvds inward. I did have to drill new holes in the a-arms alittle bit inward to make it all fit though. With the front I cut down the rear arm mounts and tried to mount them as close to the diffs as i could. The rs4 mt hubs bring the cvds way to far out though. I even drilled new holes 1/2 inch inward from where the stock hing pins or our on the outside and it still wasn't long enough. This was a major problem. So last night as I was thinking in my bed I came up with an idea. How about I use a a-arm mount set-up similar to the t4 and the touring cars? This would inable me to move the a-arms inward towards the diffs as much as possible. It also gives me the ability to make mutiple mounting holes to change width.This idea is looking like it will work really nicely. I won't be able to use t3 rear a-arms anymore though.
Peace Ethan
Today I wnet searching for the bearings to fit in rs4 mt hub carriers. I went to two hobby shops niether had them. I did find out that there is a new hobby shop only like 5 minutes form my house so I can ride my bike to it. I was looking at the front suspension today and I worried about the durablilty of these lexan arms. Fortunatly I have 2 extra sets of frotn a-arms which I discovered will fit with the new touring car type of hinge pin block set up. So now I will have 1 full set of lexan a-arms,4 replacement t3 a-arms for the rear,and 4 replacement t3 a-arms for the front.Sometime soon In the next day or so ordering a duratrax streak esc,bearings,and pinion gear. That should complete everything. Peace Ethan
Good ol' Duck tape! I was thinking about ordering the bearings for the hpi rs4 mt carriers from towerhobbies but i need them to get here before lik sunday and I don't want to take the chance so I was like screw that.I need money for v-day for my gf. So I broke out the duct tape and made some ghetto bearings. I look some 5x8 bearins and took a thin strip of duct tape and wrapped that around the out side. Then I took the bearings and forced it into the carrier with a hammer.It looks like it will work great until I can get the bearings! Atleast just to be there to hold the car together. I won't be able to run the car until I get the streak anyway. Peace Ethan
I went in yesterday and got the chassis stand offs cut and mounted. The motor mount cut and mounted.The Rear shock tower cut and mounted. I also mounted the wing mount and the wing. I also did the rest of cutting of the a-arms. I got the Front shock tower cut too. Its looking real nice. Today I will be going in again to finish makeing finishing cuts and drilling the rest of the holes. Should be done by tonight. Hopefully I will have pics up by tonight or tomarrow. Peace Ethan
Well I got it put together. I decided not to use lexan rear a-arms and only use front ones.Its about 95% done. Its not completley ready to run yet. But its in the state done enough to take it to the race with me to get it signed. Check it out and let me know what you think.Sorry that some of the pics are blurry. Peace Ethan
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4046.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4062.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4059.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4048.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4050.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4052.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4053.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4057.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4055.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4061.jpg
ElectricThunder
02-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Looks great! Definitely looks pretty potent. It's going to be a monster, that's for sure. How thick is the lexan you're using, and why no "normal" arms up front?
(BTW, your shocks look way out of wack. Maybe it's just the angle of the picture though.)
jamesbernatchez
02-10-2007, 07:42 PM
Looks good but like Electric said, why no regular arms and what is with the shocks? Both the front and rear dont look like they are the same on each side which would severly limit the truck while driving.
J
Thanks I am not useing regualr front a-rms because the front t3 a-arms that I have make the cvds tilted back until strait out. The things the with shocks umm I am pretty sure the shocks are right I am looking it as now and i can really tell I think it must just be the pics. It also may look that way cause the body leans alittle to the right. In the rear it may look wierd cuase the wing is a bit bent.oh yea I am useing 1/4 inch lexan. Peace Ethan
Today I went to the race and got travis to sign the chassis and the body it looks sweet. I also go the bearings I needed.I am working on trying to fit a orange t3 body on it too. Some guys have been saying it will look better so I am trying it. Its a bit to short though. Also I have decided for a motor that I will probaly use Team Orion Revolution 13-10 turn motor what turn do you guys think I should use? For the esc I am looking at either a Duratrax Streak or a Used novak 410-m5 does anybody know the turn limit on the novak I have heard it has none? Peace Ethan
balang_479
02-12-2007, 12:28 PM
Looks cool, im interested to see how it handles with good truck racing rubber on it.. probably better than any truck...
Thanks yea I am interested too I hope it handles better then most trucks but doubt it becuase engineers spend years getting the suspension geometery right and I have no clue how ot set all that up. Peace Ethan
ElectricThunder
02-12-2007, 09:15 PM
I think the 410m5 has no motor limit, but I'm not sure. Novak still has archives of SOME of their ESC manuals, so check that out and see if you can find its manual.
Personally, with mashers and 8 cells, you need to go with a higher turn motor. Something like a 15 turn to 19 turn spec on 8 cells geared properly with mashers should be good. I don't think the gearing options and gearboxes allow a high enough FDR for mashers and such a low turn motor on higher cell counts (more voltage...more amperage... more amperage means more heat, more heat means efficiency takes a crap, things over heat, and you end up doing more maintenance for not as much power as you could be getting with a "proper" set up... This is, of course, if you don't compensate with gearing; which I don't think you'll be able to do with your current spur and pinions combined with the large mashers....not sure though!).
If I where to run a lower turn motor I would problay be useing a 6 cell. Would that work better? I might also run smaller tires if I have too but not smaller then reg 2.2 truck tires. Yea I checked the manual and it said 4-10 cells on any mod or stock motor so i gues that means no limit. Peace Ethan
Demon-TC3
02-13-2007, 08:09 AM
Looks very impressive, i was considering doing such a project not so long ago but didnt have the time...
That said i was going to machine from aluminum mostly my own parts and new chassis etc...
What i would have done for shock tower tho is bolted plate on top of the std tc3 towers...would have been easier.
ElectricThunder
02-13-2007, 03:38 PM
If I where to run a lower turn motor I would problay be useing a 6 cell. Would that work better? I might also run smaller tires if I have too but not smaller then reg 2.2 truck tires. Yea I checked the manual and it said 4-10 cells on any mod or stock motor so i gues that means no limit. Peace Ethan
A higher turn motor and more voltage is going to be the more efficient route. The lower turn motor with only 6 cells is probably going to get hotter and is most certainly going to pull higher amperage. Even if you go to smaller tires, I'd say higher voltage and a higher turn motor are the way to go provided you use a higher FDR.
GearheadXNT2
02-13-2007, 06:26 PM
ethan if you got the bank, you could go with a lipo& brushless setup and make that thing blow the doors off any car at your track.
Demon-TC3
02-14-2007, 04:30 AM
A higher turn motor and more voltage is going to be the more efficient route. The lower turn motor with only 6 cells is probably going to get hotter and is most certainly going to pull higher amperage. Even if you go to smaller tires, I'd say higher voltage and a higher turn motor are the way to go provided you use a higher FDR.
Actually i would go more cells and spec 19 turn, since they have more torque than a stock motor, gearred right they should be ideal for an economical solutio.
Demon- thanks!Yea that would have been easier oh well if this system breaks I might do that. But I would probaly just go wiht the t3 shock towers.ok well this is what I need it to do on a medium sized track I need it to be fast enough to hang with the 2wd nitros.What about something alil faster like a 17 or 15t?
Gearhead- Eventually I plan on putting a mamba max and maxamp lipos in it. The brushed set up is just going to be used until I get enough money for that which maybe a while.....
Eletric ok. I just need it to be fast enough to keep up with the 2wd nitros. Any recommendations on a set up that would meet that goal?
Peace Ethan
Demon-TC3
02-14-2007, 05:43 PM
problem is after 19 turn the torque of the motors goes down allot more than the revs go up, your best bet is a 19 turn brushed...OR go brushless!
Get yourself a Mamba max 6800 (is it 6800?) well the midle one and it should be good. Problem with running something as low as a 15 turn is that it wont have the torque to run efficiently, untill the point where ur spur gear is HUGE and then you wont have any top end.
So try it with a 19 turn and see how it goes...
If you went 19 turn with about 8 or 9 cells you will be doin some good speed.
ok what about the 550 motors? They would have more torque. And what aobut the titan 12t 550?
Yea the middle ones are ht 5700 and the 6900.
Ok I will try to find a 19t any recommendations on a 19t? Thanks Ethan
Demon-TC3
02-14-2007, 07:26 PM
Just look for a Spec 19 turn motor...
The 550 motors (like the titans) are very cheaply produced motors and have low efficiency - they are indestructable however.
your much better off with a spec 19 turn., plenty of torque and performance.
Yea I like the fact that they are indestructable I rahter have it be less efficeint then have to change brushes and cut comms. Peace Ethan
Hey Guys people have been saying a truck body would look better ont his so I put a T3 body on it and this is how it came out. Also there are pics of the auto graphs I got from Travis Amezcua. Peace Ethan
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4079.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4080.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4078.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4077.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4081.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4086.jpg
Demon-TC3
02-16-2007, 04:23 AM
yea i see, but remember if you can gear it properly you wouldnt need to skim it that often, a spec 19 turn at its worse is still better than a Titan at its worse!
How often do you think i would have to skm it?
Demon-TC3
02-16-2007, 04:33 AM
really depends on how many cells you run and how you gear it...oh and what motor you chose.
I know that the V2 enbell motors dont need to be skimmed / maintained as often so if you want something cheap the orion Formula 19 turn would be good if you have the cash go for the machined endbell variant.
Personally when i use my stock motors in racing, i skim them proior to each meeting because i find they perform well after being skimmed (so after about 5 or 6 runs) obviously if your a basher you wont need to skim as often.
Another reason iskim is because i gaer to get everything out of my motor and set the car accordingly, if your a little more mild with set up i dont see why you cant for a month without skimming...
I will be painting the body tomarrow hopefully I will be able to get pics up. Peace Ethan
Got the body painted. The masks didn't work that well but oh well this body is goign to get thrashed anyway. Peace EThan
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4119.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4114.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4122.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4109.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4107.jpg
I love my room lol
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_4116.jpg
Demon-TC3
02-20-2007, 04:55 AM
wow looks very nice. excellent job.
Thanks Demon. I was looking at the pics and once again the shocks look jacked up. Oh yea in the top view I noticed that the tire is wide then the rear one . They are the same width jsut the forn wasn't on all the way. Peace Ethan
Demon-TC3
02-21-2007, 05:33 AM
hehe just noticed that in one of the pics from the top it looks like u got no A-arms on the front.
I think if i wanted to start a project (after machining some new a arms for my TC4) i want to make a brushless 1/8 bugy or truggy...well we can all hope :(
Eli the rc guy
02-21-2007, 09:41 AM
Great job. I still don't like the over sized tires.
Demon-TC3
02-23-2007, 11:52 AM
I think its works with the scale, makes it look like an ST rather than a buggy so i gota say i like it.
As long as you can gear it right and keep the temps down!
Good luck with it.
I still need help on motors. 550 trinity monster motor vs 550 titan 12t vs 19t spec motor vs 17-15 turn vs 12-10 turn. I really need help on this I will be needing to buy a motor soon.I am leaning towards the 19t but thinking the trinity monster would give me the torque i need and would be able to handle the power better. Peace Ethan
What esc, with six decent cells and the mashers you need a final drive ratio of about 15:1 before you can use low turn motors, if you can't get to 15:1 then you should go 19 turn IMO. If you can hit 15:1 fdr then
the titan 12 turn is going to last longer than other 12 turns, downside is is about 70-80% of the power of a a "normal" 12 turn mod motor ($20-35) and about 50-60% of the power of a "good" racing 12 turn($59.99 and up)
Before I got the mamba 5700 my buggy/truggy I used 7 cells with a 13 turn triple sv2 pro bb so that may be an option if you can run 7 cells
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJAJ2&P=7
or get a $17 method 12 turn to experiment with in case you melt the endbell off :eek:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJBX3&P=7
or the r version for $19
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJBY4&P=7
Brushless will save you money in the end. Almost forgot, the trinity monster motors eat brushes, I always used them in an emaxx so that might be it but boy the power was noticibility declining in just a five or six runs so I would stay away, it might also be because we always had to have the "wild" version, not sure on the "mild" version to be fair.
How can I find if I hit 15:1 ? I will eventually be going mamba it just will take me forever to save up $180 right now so i need something until I can buy a brushless.As far as a 12t. I like how it will last longer. I would be able to buy a nice orion revolution though used for cheap.Yea the monster motor woudl be a 18t. Thanks for the info. Peace Ethan
Demon-TC3
02-23-2007, 07:43 PM
OK if your after cells, go for the Maxamps 4.4K NIMH cells, you wont regret it! they are awsome cells.
As for a motor, go spec 19 turn and if you can a V2 endbell. i think the Peak Dynasty is about right...Modified motors just dont have the torque a 19 does...
AS for a monster stock motor, you would have very little speed (for offroad) and the torque is still less than a 19 turn.
The monster i am referring to is the trinity monster motor. Its 550 size and not 27t. Ok
To get your fdr you need to know your cars internal ratio, you get this by dividing the number of teeth on the ring gear by the pinion in the diff then you can plug the numbers in here
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/gearwizard.cfm
the mashers are 4.9 inches tall, my internal ratio is 2.6:1, I use an 84 tooth spur and 15 tooth pinion for 14.56:1, gear wizard would indicate 15.39 is best for the mashers,
so I am a little low but with the mamba I think I am going to be okay, but once summer hits and its 100 degrees I may have to switch to a 14 tooth pinion which is 15:60 a touch high but may be required once summer hits and its 100 degrees outside.
Well after much calculating I came out with a fdr of 15.54 on a 14t pinion and 87t spur. my roll out .991... so does that mean its a good set up or not? You told me that i needed a fdr or 1:15 and its 15.54 and I have heard that a roll out needs to be less then 1. With a 15t pinion the fdr is 14.5 but the roll out is 1.062. Which I have heard would over heat my esc and motor.......... Peace Ethan
Went to the lhs today I got a 12t pinion and a 15t pinion. I have decided to try a 19t motor in a kr can its supposed to be pretty fast. I am also going to try a trinity monster max 17t motor. See how it goes and then if i need something more then I will save up for a lower turn motor. I also decided to go with a old novak esc that can handle up to 10 cells and has no motor limit.Oh yea they say you can tell if your over geared if the motor is too hot but how do you know your undergeared? Peace Ethan
the mashers would indicate 15.39 so 15.54 is fine, you could play around with the wizard and different spur sizes to get perfect but that would be ok in my book especially with the 19t, you will have good power and decent speed with six cells, try the trinity with eight cells, that should be pretty sweet, since you can make this deep of a gear you should be good for any motor you want down to 12 turns or so IMO.
Ok thanks I will try the 19t when I get it and see how it goes.My Tech teacher wants to see it run so it should be fun ripping it down the hallways at school lol. I will start out with the 19t runneing on 8 cells and see how thats goes. I was thinking though if I have that small of a pinion (12t) wouldn't I need a faster motor to make it go faster if the fdr is right? Seems like it would be under geared. What happens when the fdr goes up? Does this make it under geared? And when the fdr goes down its over geared? it was funny while I was at the hobby shop asking this guy about the formula and gear ratios he was like " I know there is a formula I just don't know it and I don't think anybody here does" (he was sitting right in front of a computer btw) Its like why should I even ask the LHS guys? Looking like I know more then some of them lol ANd they're to lazy to find it on the internet .lolPeace Ethan
Demon-TC3
02-28-2007, 05:13 AM
If you find the car is slow and the motor is warm (not hot) you can gear up...i personaly wouldnt change motor as 19Turn motors have allot more torque than mod motors...allot more...
Maybe if you got a good 17 or 16 turn and retarded the timing allot...dunno never had the problem myself.
With the proper gearing you would gain very little going from 19 to 17 unless you went from a $20 motor to a $60 motor but a $60 19t would feel stronger than the $20 one. I have always used the term overgeared when the fdr is greater than needed and undergeared when the fdr is less than needed but I have been corrected by at least one rc guy that thought it was opposite, most of my basher buddies are nitro lovers so they don't worry about it as much as we electric guys do so I guess I just always used the term the way I wanted, if this rig is just a basher and you know you will be runnig the mashers all the time you can experiment with going up on the pinion size until the motor starts to get hot, it will go across the grass and stuff better than the buggy ever did so you will need to remember to treat it like a nitro not more than 5 seconds full throttle to be safe as with a large backyard or area you may be able to run the car full throttle for the entire pack which get things way to hot. Unless its not fast enough for you should be fine, the 19t will run cooler than pretty much any other mod motor so you can get away with more gearing wise, I ran the mashers with only a 12.87 fdr and a 19t on seven cells but it was stinking burning hot at the end of a run so I would suggest you stay above 13. fdr for sure but I am far from an expert I have 7 or 8 motor cans sitting around without endbells which melted off to prove it lol.
I think its the other way around on the fdr. Cuase I was playing with the gear charts and as I geared down the fdr went up and as I geared up the fdr went down.I got the motor and esc today. The motor is a reedy quad mag 19t spec motor. I have heard its a good bashing 19t. The esc is a novak m5. I am working on wireing it all up and mounting it right now. Unfortunatly though I would be able to run it until I get the slipper back. Hopefully sometime next week.Peace Ethan
I am going to probaly mill out the chassis so I was wondering what you guys suggest I do with milling it out (designs ,shapes ,holes ,etc) So i can keep the strenth and stiffness. I might have a trick up my sleeve.....
Peace Ethan
you can get a cheap hole saw set at Harbor Freight for $6, it will have six or seven sizes to cut cirles into the chassis but this will sacrifice some stiffness and may end up eating spur gears if you get the chassis to flexy. Dremels are okay to cut with but hard to make look good, the hole saw is easy to make look good, just use your drill and you get a perfect circle every time from 3/4 inch up to like 2.5 inches around.
Yea idk I don't really like the look of circles.....I can cut it our of a scroll saw too.Peace Ethan
I am trying to work on the suspension and steering geometry. I don't know about it much. I know chamber,toe,etc but When I compress the suspension and stuff what am I shooting for to make it have good geometry? What makes good suspension geometry? Also how do I accomplish this? Same with steering right now when I turn it all the way to either side the inside wheel at a sharp angle and the outside wheel is not as sharp is this normal? If not how do I fix this? and what am I shooting for with steering geometry? Sorry about all the questions but any help would be great. Thanks Ethan
dirtybirdjr
03-07-2007, 09:55 PM
hey looks like a cool project, keep it up..
nice car bed, you should get your roomates to hook up with some wheels and a car alram. by roomates i mean your parents ;) ;)
thanks .........yea lol i don't bring freinds over to my house anymore. Well atleast not to my bedroom.....Yea maybe I could find some spinners for it.....I don't like its too small lol my feet lay on the hood when I lay down . I think maybe its my parents way of keeping girls out of my bed until I am married lol Peace Ethan
masterchief06
03-08-2007, 11:03 PM
Even with the stock diff. slipper "breaking" with a loose setting, it will still be applying LOADS of current to the motor, equalling LOTS of heat. I would definitely recommend dropping the diameter of the tires you plan on using. Other than that, I'd LOVE to see a long-arm version of the TC3.
I did the same thing with a Tamiya TA02 sedan chassis. :)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/roy_woody/S10Wide.jpg
'Stang = stock TA02 and S-10 = TA02 w/ Manta Ray long-arms ;)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/roy_woody/TA02herd.jpg
IS THAT A SLOT CAR TRACK? Looks awesome! Pics!
XXWoodmanXX
03-08-2007, 11:13 PM
PM sent
Well I still haven’t gotten the slipper clutch back yet. The guy said he would build it yesterday so I have no clue when it will get here. For milling the chassis I wanted to keep the idea a secret until I did it. But idk if its that great of an idea. I am afraid that it will weaken and make the chassis too flexible. My idea is too mill out a rectangle in the middle of the chassis big enough for the battery to fit in. Then make a thin lexan battery door on the bottom. This would put the battery in the middle of the chassis or close to the middle dramatically dropping the center of gravity and making the chassis more balanced. From my measurements it looks like there is enough room under the center shaft to put the batteries. I would have to make new stand offs for the chassis. Do you guys think this would make the chassis to flexible and weaken it? I would still have the upper deck so that makes me think it would keep it stiff.Peace Ethan
Well I got an email today from Rcproductdesigns saying that the slipper was shipped out today grr. He said he would put it together last monday so I assumed he woudl send it out sometime last week. Obviously not. At the earliest it could be here by wed. but it may take a whole nother week grr. Peace Ethan
Well I got the slipper and put it all together with some difficulty. I ran it for the first time today. It didn't go so well.I stilll have some bigs to get rid of. I foudn out my batteries suck and are pretty much dead. I also was haveing odd problems with the servo. When I would push the throttle the motor would turn slowly and the servo would tun? Any ideas of whats wrong? Also I kept haveing problems with the front steering blocks and the bearings in them. The axles I have are 4mm and the inside of the bearing is 5mm. On top of that I can't get it so that the axles will stop popping out.So I am thinking I might have to get new steering blocks and c-hubs. Oh yea I also broke one of the front hinge pin braces...goign to have to strenthen thoughs but I had an extra. Its also not as fast as I would like it to be.So I have some bugs to work out but I am goign to stay with this project until I am satifisfied. Peace Ethan
Wow! I am one lucky guy. I put the tc3 steering blocks on the truggy and with some spacers they work great. They fixed both problems I had witht he axles coemign out and them being whiggly. On top of that they push the wheels out ot the maximum that my cvds with handle its almost 14 inches wide now.I want to get some t-maxx shocks for bashing and raise this thing up.While I was at it I tried to put the tc3 rear hub carriers that came witht he fronts on the truggy. With some mods they fit very nicely. Well you may be wondering why switch form the t3 to tc3 hub carriers in the rear. Well the tc3 ones hold the turnbuckle higher and it also raises the cvds. So now the turnbuckles are flat and the cvds are flat makeing for some nice suspension geometry.(less movement of the end of the cvd in the outdrive,more consistent tow angle as the suspension compresses). I ran it tonight and it runs MUCH better. I am haveing problems with the steering though. Hopefully its an easy fix. Also I ran a battery back through it with the gearing of 15/87 and when I was done the motor wasn't hot at all. The battery was smokeing hot but not the motor ofcourse it was about 40 degrees or less. It feels as if its under geared slighty so after I test it in 70-80 degree weather I might buy a bigger pinion. Oh yea I was not useing the fan that i have on it. It still seems to be very heavy though. So I think this week I will go into the shop and cut some shapes out of the a-arms and chassis.Peace Ethan
Ok maybe I am not a very lucky guy. I finally got everything work like it should and I tried to jump it for the first time to day and that was a disaster. I set up a jump about 1.5' high. I got a good run at it and it flew pretty good but the landing was not good. The truggy flew farther then I thought it would and a real car blocked my line of sight to see the landing. But it definatly did not land it. I saw it tumble down the street with a front tire behind it. I go to check out the damage. Worse then I thought. I broke a steering turnbuckles,my new tc3 hub carrier,and the rs4 mt c-hub grrrr.My lexan parts held up but thats like $15 worth of damage. It won't be runneing for awhile. Peace EThan
I have taken it apart and I plan on going in next week to make it lighter. Any ideas of a total weight that i should shoot for? Peace Ethan
I have to get tc3 steering blocks and rs4 c-hubs to fix this thing up. Do you guys think I should get aluminum tc3 steering block ($15) or plastic ones ($9)? I can't find any aluminum rs4 c-hubs . I foudn some but there purpel and $40. But I might switch to tc3 steering blocks if I want aluminum. With way shoudl I go aluminum on these parts?Peace Ethan
Associated-08
04-07-2007, 09:22 PM
Nice...
Well guys I have been really busy with school and soccer and such so I havne't gotten much done. I still have no money so I can't buy the front in parts. But I am goign to try really hard to get into the shop this week to cut some parts and lighten some.All my same questions still apply...any ideas of target weight I should be shooting for? Should I get aluminum or plastic hubs? Also ideas on how to lighten the chassis with out sacrificing lots of stiffness and strength? Thanks Ethan
Well I went in to day to lighten the chassis. I was only able to do the bottom chassis cuase I kept breaking the blades but... I weighed it and the top adn bottom chassis equalled 288g before I cut it and about 220g after.I re built it and I glued the the hubs together with cement and super glue for a temperary fix so that I can show my Tech ed teacher it running. Went in today....The glue broke within a minute or two. SO I will just have to save up to replace the parts. I will keep you guys updated with anything.peace Ethan
Wow its been awhile but I have some money laying around now to put into this thing. I will finally be able to get replacement parts. Maybe racing tires or figue out a better a-arm system. Peace Ethan
Well Guys I FINALLY got the parts that I broke. So I put it all back together tonight. Tomarrow I will be going to the track to bash it.I might even be able to get updated pics. I guess I am going to call this v1 because I have some plans ahead for it. There is one more thing that I would like to do before I deam the project 100% done. So for now its 90% done. Peace Ethan
ki smoke
06-15-2007, 03:23 AM
good luck
Thanks I needed it. Well it didn't go as well as I would have liked it. The batteries kept dumping early and I forgot to bring the tape for the battery so it kept coming out. Also one of the rear cvds kept falling out. Once I got home I ran it again and landed on the rear off a jump int he grass and a week spot in the chassis broke. So I will need to make another chassis.Today I will go and get what I need to complete v1. Though for v2 I am thinking maybe g10/g11 for the next chassis. There are definatly some things I can do to improve it. Current plans I have on the drawing board include: G10/G11 chassis , inboard shock set up,and New a-arm mounting system with some type of RPM a-arms. So pretty much going over the whole car again. But these upgrades will be gradual as I don't have much money at the moment... but my b-day is coming up soon. Peace Ethan
theGhostMouse
06-25-2007, 06:05 PM
I'd love to see what you come up with for the inboard mounted shocks. Keep us posted. Also, make sure to get a vid of it running when complete. :cool:
I actually got some teaser vids. They suck cuase it was with a digital camera and my driving sucked cuase I was trying out a stick radio instead of a pistol and it was my first tiem driving sticks so you can imagine...oh yea ignore my mom lol I will have a some much better ones eventually.
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/?action=view¤t=SoccerTourni035.flv
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/?action=view¤t=SoccerTourni029.flv
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/?action=view¤t=SoccerTourni030.flv
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/?action=view¤t=SoccerTourni028.flv
Well I was able to snap a few pics today. I wasn't able to get what I wanted to complete v1 so that will also have to wait for V2. For now though V1 is complete!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR36.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/Tr35.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR33.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR37.jpg
I have been working on designing the new a-arm and mount system. It sounds like the closer together the a-arms are the better handling. So thats exactly what I did I put the a-arms as close to each other as I could get them. I came up with this idea around 3am lol This Version 2 will have lots of innovation.The a-arms and mounts will be made out of 1/4" lexan. The hinge pins are in red and the lexan a-arm mounts are in orange. With the a-arm mounts there willl be multiple hinge pin holes to accomidate for shorter a-arms.This is so that I can put shorter a-arms on for any high traction tracks.The same design will be used in the front as well. Also my parents let me put a 6ft table in my room and this is the design workshop. All the cutting and drilling will happen in the garage. But I love this new set up. Now I have music and computer . Plus my bed is only a few feet away for thoughs late night design ideas. Please let me know wat you think of the a-arm/a-arm mount system. Thanks Ethan
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/grill0132.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/grill009.jpg
ElectricThunder
07-04-2007, 10:39 PM
Well I was able to snap a few pics today. I wasn't able to get what I wanted to complete v1 so that will also have to wait for V2. For now though V1 is complete!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR36.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/Tr35.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR33.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR37.jpg
That looks very well built. I can't wait to see V2.
balang_479
07-05-2007, 10:15 AM
yeah i like transparecency. (SP)..... wing not on properly?
chewie
07-05-2007, 01:06 PM
man tighten that slipper clutch..
it was barking almost constantly
why dont you put stadium truck tires on it.. it will look better and youll have more tread selection for different tracks. but youll still get the truggy look..
XXWoodmanXX
07-05-2007, 01:21 PM
I def. agree with Chewie. Reduce your tire's diameter, and gear accordingly. And tighten that slipper clutch a bit. You're going to glaze your slipper disk REAL quick
Balang- Yea its not on right I forgot the body clips for it
Chewie/xx woodmanxx- Yea I am trying to get a hold of some step pins or bowties but geez tires and wheels are $$$ these days so I am trying to find used ones. The thing is that I won't be able to race much so why buy racing tires. Though I guess step pins wouldn't be that bad for some dirt bashing. Ok I will make sure to tighten the slipper... I just remeber what happened last time I tried adjusting it ...my last one snapped in have.
I was thinking of the possibility of making the TR3 longer for V2. I looked I can put a longer drive shaft and it will make it 3/4" longer. Right now its 13 1/2" wide and has a wheelbase of 11 3/8" . With the 3/4" it would have a wheelbase of
12" 1/8. I was wondering if I should do this or not? Or keep it at 11 1/2"? Thanks Ethan
chewie
07-06-2007, 11:15 AM
no keep it how it is..
now.. when you tighten it .. dont go all donkey kong and put the wraith of god into it.. just snug it up.. hold your finger on the spur and try and roll it forward and see if it slips?.. or if you have a buddy there.. hold the back wheels.. and have your buddy hit the throttle just a little bit. it should start to go up and then slip a bit once you get near parrallell with the ground..
sorry if i was unclear..
lol I like the metaphor. Yea I decided to keep the TR3 at the length it is at. I was able to tighten the slipper really easily. Though I am wondering if this thing needs a new name becuase I can't really have it called "Team Associated" since its a copyrighted name, and if I put a truck body on it then in order to make it a Truggy I would have to put a big Wing on which I am not sure I want. So any ideas for a name? Thanks Ethan
I have contiued work on the V2. I have all the a-arms all cut out along with the mounts. I mounted a proto rear set up on a piece of lexan cut out in the shape of the rear part of the chassis and it came out excellant. Estimated max ground clearance is 3" with mashers. The a-arms are the longest on a 1/10th truck or buggy ( I don't consider monster trucks as 1/10th) They are 120mm long. The longest factory a-arms are the jato's at about 113mm. I am very impressed with the a-arm and mount design and it looks to be solid and strong. Tomarrow I will be ordering everything I need to finish V2. Maybe just maybe I will order a little surprise to put on this thing too.... I am VERY excited at this point .I can promise you a very sick truggy when I am through. Peace Ethan
I got the suspension parts in yesterday along with tires ,and some random parts and my top secret surprise lol . I have the suspension all planned out. I also finished the a-arms and painted them. They look good. The bad news is that I had to purchase a book for school so I wasn't able to order the G10 though I ordered it today.
Well here's the story about the g10. I ordered some .125" (1/8th" or 3mm) sheet 12"x18" I wait a week and pay $18 for shipping which was a bit crazy. It gets here and its .188" (5mm) thick. Way too heavy and thick for a double deck chassis. So I call them and they said they would send me another sheet. So I waited another week and it came today. I soon was faced with the reality of how hard this stuff is to cut. I put in my thicker blades on the scroll saw and I start cutting it. I get about 1 or 2 inchs in and the blade becomes dull enough where it won't cut anymore... errr. I exspected this but I didn't think it would be this bad. I thought maybe every 6 inchs I would have to switch blades. So I started cutting with a circular saw and that is not very easy to cut with at all. But I think for most of the bottom chassis I can use it. Its going to be hard but Idk how else to cut it. The problem is ,is that I have no clue how I will be able to cut the upper deck.. becuase I can't use the circular saw much. Any ideas??
I have cut both .125 and .250 G10 with a variable speed jig saw, make sure its variable speed as a normal jig saw runs to fast and kind of melts the material, I started with a "tool shop" brand from menards or home depot, like $15.99, it worked fine but eventually burnt up cutting aluminum, I found slow speed and very small high tooth count blades worked best. A nice Dewalt will run $79-139 depending on model if you only want to buy it once.
Yea I used a single speed jigsaw today. I first tried medium tooth count . I guess it would be a regular blade and it worked well for a little but then the blade got melted and dull so dull that where it cuts the teeth where flat and smooth lol. So I tried a very small high tooth count and it worked better and the blade hasn't gone dull yet. I just have to get used to using a jigsaw. It's alittle harder to use then a scroll saw. I cut the bottom chassis out and its still abit rough so I will try to make it better tomarrow. Then I drill holes and mount stuff and then start drawing the upper deck.
Haven't updated much though I have been working alot on it. I cut a lower chassis out and spent alot of time sanded it all down all to find out that in the rear where the spur gear goes through it I cut it too thin. After some thinking time I decided to take a chance and use the rest of my G10 to make another chassis. I made that today and it came out great. I have offically fallen in love with my Jigsaw. The blades last FOREVER. I mean I cut 2 whole chassis's and a upper deck with one blade. I also never knew it could cut so well and easily. I also cut a top deck for it today and I barely touched my scroll saw. I gave the upper deck a sorta sharp gothic look. Right now I have the diffs mounted on the chassis and the upper deck on.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Tr3chas.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/tr3chas3.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Tr3a-arms.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Tr3chassarms.jpg
I am far from done and the list of to do's stands
-Make Chassis Stand offs
-Make motor mount
-Make new a-arm mounts
-Drill holes
-Finish battery strap system and slots and standoffs.
-Make Rocker mounts
-Make shock mounts
-Buy and install Push Rods
-Make Bumper mount
-Make Body mounts
-Mount everything
-Paint lexan
-Dye wheels?
-Take Pics
-Install Electronics
-Take Pics
-Make Video
Wow I have alot to do and school starts this week and I have soccer everyday. Hopefully by the end of the week I will have it all finished. Maybe by next sunday and not sure when I will get the video done. But I will keep you all updated.
Also I have a clue for the special surprise I have for you all:
"I like it inside out,not outside in"
Peace Ethan
Wow its been almost 4 months since I last updated this thread. Unfortunatly beucase of the lack of funding I have yet to make any major progress on this project. Though lately I have been trying to sell some stuff ,so as soon as that sells I will be able to return to make regular fast pace progress. Also Christmas is coming up so maybe I will get some help there.
Over the last 3 months I haven't gotten much done but recently I have started to draw out designs for small stuff like chassis stand offs,motor mount, battery stand offs, mostly small stuff. Then ofcourse at the wee hours of the morning I was thinking about this project and I came up with a very good idea to replace my current suspension set up....
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/grill0132.jpg
The current problem with it is that I don't have a drill press or mill. So its very hard to make straight accurate holes for the hinge pins through 5 layers of lexan so that they match all up. Also I have always hated bent hinge pins and e-clips. I could have come up with a way to eliminate the e-clips like on the T4/B4. Instead I just decided to get rid of the hinge pins all at once. The design I have come up with uses no hinge pins. Instead it uses Pivot Balls. This reduces resitence and friction. Also this set up will always me to make sure that the a-arms mount up nicely with out having to worry about hinge pins binding and holes not matching up. This is a picture of the rough design that I decided to draw up. It is ofcourse a rough drawing but it should be able to give you an idea of what I am thinking...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Pinless.jpg
I can't decide on a certain design until I get the Pivot balls and other parts. I am pretty sure though that I will be using Nitro Tc3 Pivot ball Hub carriers regardless of if I use this system. I just thought it would be nice to put this design up to get opinions and thoughts on it. As you can see I am the kind of guy that loves trying something new and innovative. I rather try this and fail then try something proven and succeed.I will try to get the project rolling again as I am still very excited to finish.
Peace,
Ethan
Team Kassanova
I was bored so I decided to draw a full chassis picture of the TR3 using Microsoft Paint(Its not the most accurate but its about the best I can do with paint). This will give you'll a rough idea of what it will look like in the end.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/TR3tires2.jpg
XXWoodmanXX
12-14-2007, 09:39 PM
Revo-style cantilever suspension I take it?
You are correct Woodman.The picture above will probaly turn into a red x by tomarrow and I can't edit that post so here is the picture again...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3tires2.jpg
Finally a update.A quiet major one at that! I also know its a very long update. You don't have to read it all ...it would be nice if you look at the pictures though For Christmas I made off with $200 all at my disposal to put in this machine. Or as a inside joke between my family its my "girlfriend" since its very loyal and will always be there for me unlike my past real girlfreind. lol The last three days I have been working basically all day on the car.
Day 1: I broke out 2 new packages of scroll saw blades and started with the chassis mounts. I finished the middle and rear chassis mounts. I also got the battery strap posts and battery barriers done.
Day 2: Finished all the above parts mounted them. I also decided on the motor mount system and got the servo saver/rack mounted. Then I started on the rocker mounts in the rear. This was by far the most difficult parts so far. I had to make atleast 2 or 3 of them to get the angles correct. Also mentle note rocker posts are very hard to thread in to lexan : ( . I finished the rear and was able to mount the shocks.
Day 3: Basically I made the front rocker mounts and got it all mounted up.
The rockers and shocks are a bit higher then I would have liked but I had to have room under to put turnbuckles in the rear and upper arm on the front. This is what it turned out like...its not perfect becuase like I have said before I am no CNC ...also I haven't sanded or put finishing touches on everything. Also right now I have just a bunch of mock up screws in it and haven't started countersinking anything.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3016.jpg
Rear
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3011.jpg
Front
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3012.jpg
Side
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3022.jpg
Tomarrow I think I will be cutting a motor cooling hole in the chassis and also finishing the motor mount and getting that mounted. Also I will probaly start sanding everything. In a few days I will be ordering the nitro tc3 hub carriers and pivot balls off of ebay. If ofcourse I win the auction. Until those come I can't really do anything else. Once they come though I will be able to figue out the suspension and figue out what I need to complete the suspension. I am pretty set on the hing-pinless design unless it proves to be weak or undo-able.I am also trying to decide between lexan or delrin for the new a-arms. My old version 2's will no longer be used, unfortunatly.
You may ask why I am going with the laydown type of suspension. When I was making the rocker mounts I was asking myself the same question. But there are advantages.
1. Lower Center of Gravity
2. Less bent shock shafts
3. In my opinion more durable
4. Progressive suspension
5. Its unique
The following picture should give you and idea of the most noticable advantage ; the lower center of gravity. The lexan shock tower is from my version one and is showen at about the same height as it was mounted on the last version
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3023.jpg
I figued for the heck of it I would put some mock up arms on it and just lay the arms on to get and idea of what it will look like..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3031.jpg
The recent cold weather has forced me to move the rest of my workshop inside which includes my scroll saw Here is the new set up which I love
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3030.jpg
Hmmm and finally another hint to my surprise that I have planned for this...It should be obvious this time..
Clue 2 : I lurk in the lens
Peace,
Ethan
XXWoodmanXX
12-30-2007, 07:58 AM
Why not just buy yourself a B44 and call it a day? :p
j/k Not bad so far.
Well the B44 is pretty exspensive as is, no laydown shocks,low ground clearance. Plus it would last a week or two and then break.I would just keep putting money it it for a short amount of driving time. This project has kept me occupied for over 2 years.., oh yea and when you take a B44 to the track or LHS people don't come up to and are like "what the hell!?!" :) It would be nice to get a B44 and convert it though.
Thanks
Since of a recent sponsorship deal with a new company/racing team.The TR3's new name is Team Kassanova TR3. I will be working with them to make hop-up parts for various vehicles.
chewie
01-02-2008, 02:27 AM
Finally a update.A quiet major one at that! I also know its a very long update. You don't have to read it all ...it would be nice if you look at the pictures though For Christmas I made off with $200 all at my disposal to put in this machine. Or as a inside joke between my family its my "girlfriend" since its very loyal and will always be there for me unlike my past real girlfreind. lol The last three days I have been working basically all day on the car.
Day 1: I broke out 2 new packages of scroll saw blades and started with the chassis mounts. I finished the middle and rear chassis mounts. I also got the battery strap posts and battery barriers done.
Day 2: Finished all the above parts mounted them. I also decided on the motor mount system and got the servo saver/rack mounted. Then I started on the rocker mounts in the rear. This was by far the most difficult parts so far. I had to make atleast 2 or 3 of them to get the angles correct. Also mentle note rocker posts are very hard to thread in to lexan : ( . I finished the rear and was able to mount the shocks.
Day 3: Basically I made the front rocker mounts and got it all mounted up.
The rockers and shocks are a bit higher then I would have liked but I had to have room under to put turnbuckles in the rear and upper arm on the front. This is what it turned out like...its not perfect becuase like I have said before I am no CNC ...also I haven't sanded or put finishing touches on everything. Also right now I have just a bunch of mock up screws in it and haven't started countersinking anything.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3016.jpg
Rear
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3011.jpg
Front
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3012.jpg
Side
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3022.jpg
Tomarrow I think I will be cutting a motor cooling hole in the chassis and also finishing the motor mount and getting that mounted. Also I will probaly start sanding everything. In a few days I will be ordering the nitro tc3 hub carriers and pivot balls off of ebay. If ofcourse I win the auction. Until those come I can't really do anything else. Once they come though I will be able to figue out the suspension and figue out what I need to complete the suspension. I am pretty set on the hing-pinless design unless it proves to be weak or undo-able.I am also trying to decide between lexan or delrin for the new a-arms. My old version 2's will no longer be used, unfortunatly.
You may ask why I am going with the laydown type of suspension. When I was making the rocker mounts I was asking myself the same question. But there are advantages.
1. Lower Center of Gravity
2. Less bent shock shafts
3. In my opinion more durable
4. Progressive suspension
5. Its unique
The following picture should give you and idea of the most noticable advantage ; the lower center of gravity. The lexan shock tower is from my version one and is showen at about the same height as it was mounted on the last version
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3023.jpg
I figued for the heck of it I would put some mock up arms on it and just lay the arms on to get and idea of what it will look like..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3031.jpg
The recent cold weather has forced me to move the rest of my workshop inside which includes my scroll saw Here is the new set up which I love
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/TR3030.jpg
Hmmm and finally another hint to my surprise that I have planned for this...It should be obvious this time..
Clue 2 : I lurk in the lens
Peace,
Ethan
you finally got stadium truck tires ?
Yes sir I picked up a set of Step pins. But thats not the surprise if thats what you where thinking...
A small up date today I worked more on the 8 piece rollcage. I will tell you guys more about that when its finished. I also took it apart and cut a motor hole and did some sanding on the chassis.Oh yea and countersunk all the holes ghetto style.
Ethan
Teamkassanova.com
balang_479
01-06-2008, 09:51 AM
Wow, some detailed work going into this... love the cantelever suspension. Nice1
Awesome build, some real innovation right there. It's nice that you got sponsored too, good job! :D
balang,Gtx: Thanks. I think that alot of people enjoy, and want innovation in R/C. I think that the hobby needs it. I am also the kind of guy that rather try something new and fail at it and keep working on it to make it work, than do something that is proven and succeed at first. Yes quiet abit of detailed work going into it and we aren't even to the good stuff.( The suspension ) :) Yea its cool being sponsored and working for hte company. Soon we hope to maybe make a production version...that means everything cnc'ed....:cool: I think that recently with the high powered brushless and lipo systems on the market today that there is some demand for a shaft driven 4wd electric truck. It would be perfect for the lipo/brushless set up and this kind of vehicle would be perfect for longer a-mains on blown out 1/8th tracks because of the ground clearance and long a-arms.. It also should be one of the easiest cars to handle with the power since of 4wd.
I put some bids on ebay for ntc3 front/rear hub carriers, pivot balls,and some blue wheel nuts. The auction only came with one set of hub carriers and pivot balls but I needed an extra set of pivot balls for the inside mounts so I just bought another package with hub carriers so I will have extra's. These parts should be in by Saturday and then I can start designing the a-arms. Still trying to figue out a material to use. Delrin looks to be a bit exspensive at $40 for 12"x12" so I was thinking about getting some 3/8" lexan instead but I am still trying to decide.I think 5/16" lexan would be the perfect thickness but I can't find any. I also may have the a-arms cnc'ed by the companyies machinist instead of hand cutting them. Thats another decision I have to make. I would sorta like to have this version be my own with everything cut by me. So that I can truely say that I designed,fabricated,and built it.
Peace Ethan
The ntc3 parts came in today and WOW i am not used to working with such beefy parts. I think I will have a hard time breaking these. They look like they will work better than exspected. As I was taking them apart I figued out another thing about the pivot ball supspension you can use it as a VLA or variable length .Like the technology used on the losi trucks/buggies. You can basically tune the length of the a-arms by screwing or unscrewing the pivot balls with out changing width. By putting spacers in the axles it keeps the same width. This also helps me becuase I can turn two pivot balls on each hub and it makes it so that the hub is brought close to the center making it so that the cvd is pushed farther into the outdrive so that I can have maximum clearance for bashing and then when i want to race I can make it so that I can go back to the max width with level a-arms, by unscrewing the pivot balls. I will be designing the a-arms over the weekend and hopefully buying some material soon if the money is there.
Bad news... I sent the lower chassis and some pivot ball parts and a few drawings to a friend of mine so that he could make me some aluminum pivot ball a-arm mounts. He got the chassis and parts yesterday and tells me that the chassis broke in shipping. With no insurance I can't get any money from the post office but The chassis broke in the same area around where the spur gear is and where the rear of the chassis hooks on. I figue that if the chassis in a padded envelope couldn't handle USPS then it probaly couldn't handle brushless power and 10 ft jumps. Though I had a aluminum brace to go on the chassis in the works. Now I have to make a new chassis or have one machined by the company machinist. I don't have anymore g10 so the first decision is what material to use?
1.G10
or
2. Alloy
The second thing I have to worry about is fixing the design to add material to the back. I am not sure a aluminum brace would make it strong enough. Also with the pivot ball mount design I can't cut the chassis any different to make that area stronger. So I came up with a few ideas...
1. Put 3/16" spacers under the rear diff case so that I don't have to have a spur gear hole.
Advantages: Easy,cheap,light, still keep pivot ballsupsension
Disadvantages: Raises CG and also increases the angle that the cvds slope down to the hubs which would increase cvd plunge and decrease ground clearance
2. Scrap the inner pivot ball "hingepinless" idea and go with a much more simple set up such as something similar to the tc4,t4,b4 hinge pin design just on the chassis but keep the pivot ball hubs.
Advantages: Simple, Cheap,Lowers cg,strong, can be used with t4/gt2 a-arms when useing tc3 rear hubs and tc3 front hubs.
Disadvanteges: Calls for shorter a-arm,less clearance,more traditional and not innovative, more friction.
3. Modifiy the slipper clutch, add dogbones, move to a mid motor mounted set up such as a b44 or bj4 WE. Use either the pivot ball or t4 suspension.
Advantages: More balanced,Can lower the diff cases to lower Cg and decrease cvd plunge, no spur gear hole on the rear, can use either type of suspension, can extend the truggy by useing longer dogbones.
Disadvantages: Saddle packs, most exspensive, have to redesign top/bottom chassis.
The last thing is if I should get the chassis cnc'ed or hand make it. I sorta wanted this version to be a prototype which most of the parts where hand made by me. But if I have to buy a whole nother sheet of g10 or a alloy sheet it seems smart that I would just have it cnc'ed. Especially since I am tired of g10 affecting my lungs and the cncing would be close to free.
I am having a hard time making these decisions , I am naturally a bad decision maker... so all the help would be appreciated. I am pretty sure I don't want to do option one though.
Thanks Ethan
Team Kassanova
Its been awhile since I have updated you guys. Lately I haven't been able to make a new chassis but I have been doing alot of thinking,brainstorming, and designing.Basically everything that I have done for Version 2 has to be redesigned and re-cut.I Took one step forward and it sent me 10 back with the last chassis getting broken.. It sort of frustrates me but at the same time it forced me to look at the TR3 in a new way and come up with solutions to the problems and it is helping me to design and build a even better and more innovative truck.
Just thought I would mention that after much thought I have decided to cut a new chassis. This chassis will let me have the option of having a mid motor set up like a B44,BJ4WE,D4,etc or I can switch to a regular set up like a tc3 or BJ4 with a sidexside down one side and the motor and electronics on the other. I won't have to switch the chassis or upper deck if I want to switch back and forth.I will also be able to use the same slipper clutch for both layouts. Also with this chassis I can use either my hingepinless design or it is capadible with a suspension type like a T4. Using T4 a-arms and regular hubs that can be bought off the shelf. SO there will be alot of options built into the chassis.
atm92484_3
03-27-2008, 06:25 PM
Nice looking project.
If you're jumping and beating on it, I'd defiently go for an aluminum chassis - I think it will end up a lot more durable. If you're worried about CG height and assuming the G10 is lighter than the aluminum, the aluminum chassis will actually lower the car's CG.
I didn't read this enitre post in detail so my appologies in advance if you already mentioned it, but it looks like those bellcranks are going to overcenter on the shocks when you go into full bump and not allow the wheels to rebound.
Thanks, I have been considering doing a aluminum lower chassis and a G10 upper chassis. Not sure yet. One of the things I am worried about is the wieght of the aluminum.
What do you mean by the bellcranks overcentering? And them not allowing the wheel to rebound? Do you mean the rockers?
atm92484_3
04-02-2008, 10:23 PM
Yup rockers = bellcranks.
When the linkage over centers, the point where the bottom of the shock attaches to the rocker moves past the line between where the shock mounts to the frame and the point the rocker pivots about (see the picture; its gotta be less confusing than that explanation). When it reaches this point, the spring causes the wheel to remain in full bump instead of going back down.
Then again your bellcranks may hit and that would prevent it from happening.
Ohh I see now. I looked it over it and it does look like the rockers will hit. If not I will put some kind of post there to stop the rockers. Thanks for pointing that out its definatly something to watch for.
Ofcourse..I haven't ordered the G10 yet.. :/ I don't have enough money for shipping lol and everybody keeps backing out of my deals. But I thought I would stop buy and show you a drawing that I did and also the touring car shocks that I picked up (thanks to FasterthanSpeed). Alot of people have been recommending touring car shocks to me.Also I have included a picture of the rear hub set up (notice the Proline Step Pins also, no more huge mashers). With the rear hubs I made slight modification to the pivot ball holes so that they would allow for more travel. I also filed down the top of the hubs where the turnbuckle screws in to make it flat instead of having it be slanted down. I won't be using traditional ball cup turnbuckle ends but instead screw in types. I just hate having to pop on and off the ball cups. I also hate when they pop off in the middle of a bash session or a race.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/random007.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/random010.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Associated%20TR3/random011.jpg
XXWoodmanXX
05-11-2008, 09:59 AM
I still say get a TC3 "O" and call it a day. :p Good progress tho. Liking the concept.
haha. If I where to get a car and then convert it to a truck it would definatly be a B44. Unfortunatly it would take me awhile to save up the money to buy one. So instead I like making slow progress on this. I wish I could make more progress , Just its getting to the end of the school year and I have finals and I still haven't found a job. Eventually though I would like to buy a b44 and convert it. Maybe get the parts CNC'ed and sell a conversion.
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