Is onroad population declining?

[PrimeAKF11]

At least in my local area (South Jersey), there was a sharp decline in the number of onroad racers last year compared to 2005 season. However, I'm not sure if it's an actual decline in the onroad industry or 'just' my local scene, which lost its previous high-profile location to race and had to move to an unfavorable one last year.

What's your view of this? Are onroad racers declining in your area too?

[SerpentCT4S]

I used to be into on-road but I couldnt see myself driving 40mins to the local outdoor track. The only on-road I drive now is my drifter. I sold my 2 on-road cars and have all ST's or MT's now.

[chestnut007]

hey that's pretty much the distance my dad has to drive me to the two tracks I go to, r/c vehicles are not popular around my area. To answer your question, yes I have been noticing a decrease in on-roaders because this one track I used to go to closed because not enough people were showing up (they did change the track to a TC style instead of an oval, maybe that's something to do with it).... but I will stay with on-road for an long as I'm into r/c, which will probably be a long time.

[rezenclowd3]

I have to drive 2-3 hours to get to a Pro track. I dont mind cause its like a mini vacation. I know that some guys travel far more than that. The closest track to me is about 40 min away, but I dont like that as its not maintained and has no onsite hobby shop.

[Eli the rc guy]

I see a pattern!!! People dont like to buy on-roads anymore becasue they arnt that fun without a track to go to and race. It is simply too far for most people to travel. Like me ofr instance. I got my XXX-S up on Ebay right now, and Im gunan use the money from it to buy an E-maxx. For the same reason most people have trucks, and nto on-roads. My track is about 8 miles away, I dont have the time ( neither dose my parents) to drive me there and wait... The most I do is just drift, but that is even hard becasue you gotta find a smooth surfas to run. To go onraod is to race, not alota bashing to be done with it, especialy now that they have become so concentrated on Racing.

[rustla]

iv kinda been wanting to getting into on road, but i live in the country, so if been a big offroad kid all my life, form dirtbikes, quads and doing dounuts in a field with a 4x4, just no place to onroad round here

[GHETTOTEACHER]

I just found out that Pottbellys in South Jersey and Horsham track in Pa are closing. I am a pure outdoor on road racer. My old primary race track in Delware county closed down due to the lack of people running there and politics of other racers. It was a shame, but it was great for the time it was running. I don't know if the nitro on road racing is declining, but the indoor tracks are closing everywhere.
Just as many of you guys have said, I have to travel to a quality on road track in order to race. During the Summer, I am at 301 for days. That is three hours away from my home. There is however more close off road tracks that I am starting to frequent just to keep the driving skills sharp. More and more on road guys are moving to off road because of the availbility of tracks.
I think indoor on road is dying though. sorry to say.

[PrimeAKF11]

I just found out that Pottbellys in South Jersey and Horsham track in Pa are closing. I am a pure outdoor on road racer. I don't know if the nitro on road racing is declining, but the indoor tracks are closing everywhere.
Just as many of you guys have said, I have to travel to a quality on road track in order to race. During the Summer, I am at 301 for days. That is three hours away from my home. There is however more close off road tracks that I am starting to frequent just to keep the driving skills sharp. More and more on road guys are moving to off road because of the availbility of tracks.
I think indoor on road is dying though. sorry to say.
Have you guys noticed that more off road tracks are becoming blue groove?

Hey you live in south jersey? We should race together sometime this summer... :) My cousin and I are hardcore(ok not really) nitro touring guys. What is this track 3 hours away? I only know of jackson and west chester as far as onroads go.


Back to the topic, there is supposdely a huge roar-grade onroad track opening in trenton between spring and summer. Hopefully it'll give a nice boost to onroad population.

[GHETTOTEACHER]

If there is a track in Trenton, I will be there....

The track that I race during the summer is 301 raceway in Maryland. The place is a dedicated on road race track. Fast as all h-ll!! Great competition and it will teach you to drive fast!

I live in the Philly area. Delaware county. I've run at Checkerboards and sometimes with the Six foot tiger crowd. Keep your eyes on Blue Diamond park in Delaware. The family that ownes the place loves RC off road racing. I race there. I come home from Maryland and stop over there during the midnight races during the summer. They are very interested in making a 8th scale quality track there.. But this is rumor so far.

[vroom vroom]

The reason indoor tracks are closing is because it takes so much to run the building.

[balang_479]

I see a pattern!!! People dont like to buy on-roads anymore becasue they arnt that fun without a track to go to and race. It is simply too far for most people to travel. Like me ofr instance. I got my XXX-S up on Ebay right now, and Im gunan use the money from it to buy an E-maxx. For the same reason most people have trucks, and nto on-roads. My track is about 8 miles away, I dont have the time ( neither dose my parents) to drive me there and wait... The most I do is just drift, but that is even hard becasue you gotta find a smooth surfas to run. To go onraod is to race, not alota bashing to be done with it, especialy now that they have become so concentrated on Racing.

Well, around here there are like 20 onraod tracks in a 2 hours radius but i dont like racing onroad purely because i find it boring, the tracks are plenty but off road is so much fun and less competitive in a way, plus its so good to look at a buggy or truggy accelerate thorugh the dirt and see the suspension work and the jumps.. well, the awesome, you dont get any of that on onroad... thanks the reason i believe

[Grizzbob]

I don't think the numbers are declining overall, just shifting, so it really depends on where you live. If you look at big race entries, the numbers entering them are still INCREDIBLY high(for example, the Novak US Touring Car Champs race a couple of weeks ago filled all 250 of its entry slots in about a week, faster than ever, & they've had to turn some people away the last few years, & I expect the Snowbirds race to be absolutely HUGE, around 700 or so). It's been pretty stable in my neck of the woods, & grown in a few places, but declined in others, so overall I don't believe it's changed much..... :cool:

[PrimeAKF11]

balang_479, I think that's irrelevant to this thread. Following your logic, how did the on road crowd ever exist and flourish then? Also I know plenty of people who prefer onroad because they find the slow offroad racing boring.


Plus, I don't believe indoor onroads are closing just because of rent. Rents don't just quadruple in a year http://www.3si.org/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif.


What I'm curious about is, is the trend in the industry shifting to offroad from onroad now, (Just like how it shifted from offroad to onroad couple years ago) or is it likely due to inconvenient location in my area?

[JDT]

Des Moines Iowa just got a new 24 X 50 carpet oval, don't seem to have the turnout the LHS dirt track does but many of the same faces, in the winter we were stuck with slot car racing before so this is a major improvement IMO.

[GHETTOTEACHER]

I'm in the middle of this argument. I love on-road but have had a blast with off roading. Back to topic. In my area, indoor on road is closing because of cost and sale of the property. Since I wrote last, I spoke to two people that used to sponsor out door on road and stopped. Both said that the turn out was dropping and the cost of renting space and prep of setting up the track with insurance was getting out of hand. It does make me question wheather or not to keep some of my on road and focus soley on Truggy. It would be a sad day if I sold my Serpents. If and when that day comes (hopefully not), I will continue to travel to Jersey, New York, Delaware and Maryland to get my on road fix.

[chestnut007]

I just found out that Pottbellys in South Jersey and Horsham track in Pa are closing.
Really? I wanted to check out Pottbellys one day...See I live in a town called Havertown which is in the suburbs of Philly and it's not that far and I have a raceable rc18mt. hmmm... it's also weird how Horsham is closing because I know pretty much everyone from the off-road track called the Hobby Hut race way go to Horsham, and that's a good amount of people. I think the main reason some people are getting out or on-road is because how important setting up your car is, it's intimidating at first but its easy to catch on, or at least it's catching on with me...

[Ghostface Buggy]

I've noticed a steady decline in the Midwest over the last 4 years.

1) MHOR in Denver cancelled their big summer race last year because they couldn't get enough people to sign up for it.

2) Many Hobbytown USA shops used to have parking lot races every weekend, but many of them quit doing it.

3) There's one nice indoor track 2 hours from where I live that does well in the summertime and there's 1 shabby indoor track 30 minutes from where I live that does well all year long except during the summertime so I guess you could combine the two and say there's only one on-road track available in a state that's known for producing many r/c enthusiasts.

Here's my speculation why this has happened:

1) If you were just getting into r/c, would you get one of those new school cheap RTR nitros or spend even more money on a touring car that can't take near as much of a beating as a RTR nitro?

2) There's been a huge tech boom in the last couple of years. From ipods to flat screens, there's a lot of other toys out there that are competing for r/c addicts' dollars.

3) Maybe a lot of people tried touring cars out when they were really popular several years ago and then figured out that off-road is cheaper, it's a lot easier to dial in an off-road car, on-road racers tend to be wound more tight than off-road racers, etc...

I used to race on-road and off-road, but I recently sold my TC3's and TC4's to raise some cash to buy the TC5. Now that I have a lot less TC stuff, I kind of like the idea of focusing on off-road instead of dividing my time equally between the two.

I've always enjoyed off-road more than on-road so maybe it's just me, but nothing compares to mod buggy. I think it's less exciting to race touring cars, but I'm sure there's many other people who would say racing off-road is boring. To each his own.

And to anyone who thinks you can't go fast on dirt, I'd like to ask them if they've ever seen a mod buggy race. Also, many pro and sponsored racers have told me that it takes more driving skill to be good at mod buggy than any other electric class, including mod sedan.

[NotWalkinBlind]

PrimeAKF11, drop by here and ask the same question in their onroad forums...

http://rctech.net/forum/index.php

[GHETTOTEACHER]

PrimeAKF11, here is the 301 raceway sight. This place is the best on road race track on the East Coast! This track has average top speeds on it back straight for 1/10 scale of the 55mph range. I clocked many 8th scales on the back straight at 70 mph during a race! This place will give you goose bumps. Everybody I've taken there wants to go back. I just wish there were more places like this nearby.

http://cwhits.com/rway01/index.php

Oh yea, Ghostface I have to agree with you on fast off road. I was at Checkerboard for the turkey race and was impressed on how fast these buggies were going. They sounded like 8th scale on roads or Formula one cars screaming by! Checkerboard has to be one of the fastest off road tracks around. That is in Jersey! He's not shutting down!

[Scattershot]

WOW... horsham and pottsbelly are closing????? I just read the potsbellys website in regards to this... wow.... I just read the horsham website and read no where that they are closing... I was/am looking to put an onroad track in Delaware... and still am.. I like to run onroad.. fast and sleek...

[Eli the rc guy]

Well, around here there are like 20 onraod tracks in a 2 hours radius but i dont like racing onroad purely because i find it boring, the tracks are plenty but off road is so much fun and less competitive in a way, plus its so good to look at a buggy or truggy accelerate thorugh the dirt and see the suspension work and the jumps.. well, the awesome, you dont get any of that on onroad... thanks the reason i believe

Hmm Yeah on road is a little more competitive, but I aslo think that people that do injoy on-roads is the realisum too?? and the racing I guess. Who realy knows, but as far as I know that people seem to have a hard time tryign to get to the track, =O so lucky, you like like 20 tracks !!!! I wish I did, and I wish I was 18 and own a car or something to get me places. I know a Of-road track around.. its I think mabe 2.5 hours away?? But yeah I dont see alota on-roads lattly.

[SVTcobra04]

Im moving towards off-road now...

[trailranger]

I predict that ON-ROAD is moving to the SMALLER SCALES like 1/12 and 1/18
due to the "Metro-Effect" where people who use public transist will happliy take a book-bag or duffle on a bus rather than lug everything for the larger scales.
Then add in the cost of land, to lease or buy. Smaller scales, mean smaller tracks, which mean lower cost.
Then add in disposible income and smaller scales use cheaper electronics, batteries and motors.

Now everywhere else, OFF-ROAD is going to rule. It has more fun appeal to it, some what easier to get into than off road, and when its all said and done mose RTR's end up as back-yard bashers or alley-way bandits. Something that a $400 T2 '007 will never do and you still have to toss in some electronics to get that baby to move.
As for tracks, finding dirt is way easier than trying to find a flat parking lot that is not sealed with that black and slick top coat of Vinyl or chucking out $$$$ for a real track.

Dirt is just easier to get into for both the racers and the businesses. Plus it has more appeal and forgivness to drive than the techincal ON-ROAD sceene.

[balang_479]

balang_479, I think that's irrelevant to this thread. Following your logic, how did the on road crowd ever exist and flourish then? Also I know plenty of people who prefer onroad because they find the slow offroad racing boring.


Plus, I don't believe indoor onroads are closing just because of rent. Rents don't just quadruple in a year http://www.3si.org/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif.


What I'm curious about is, is the trend in the industry shifting to offroad from onroad now, (Just like how it shifted from offroad to onroad couple years ago) or is it likely due to inconvenient location in my area?


i see your point, it all a matter of taste...

[balang_479]

I predict that ON-ROAD is moving to the SMALLER SCALES like 1/12 and 1/18
due to the "Metro-Effect" where people who use public transist will happliy take a book-bag or duffle on a bus rather than lug everything for the larger scales.
Then add in the cost of land, to lease or buy. Smaller scales, mean smaller tracks, which mean lower cost.
Then add in disposible income and smaller scales use cheaper electronics, batteries and motors.

Now everywhere else, OFF-ROAD is going to rule. It has more fun appeal to it, some what easier to get into than off road, and when its all said and done mose RTR's end up as back-yard bashers or alley-way bandits. Something that a $400 T2 '007 will never do and you still have to toss in some electronics to get that baby to move.
As for tracks, finding dirt is way easier than trying to find a flat parking lot that is not sealed with that black and slick top coat of Vinyl or chucking out $$$$ for a real track.

Dirt is just easier to get into for both the racers and the businesses. Plus it has more appeal and forgivness to drive than the techincal ON-ROAD sceene.

shouldnt that be the same for Offroad then?, the costs should be the same apart from the indoor tracks... I know onroad tracks are generally closer to the center than offroad tracks but it depends.. i just cant see your point there, :cool:

[Ed237]

The tracks and manufacturers and racers finally pushed the limits of on road racing too far. $500 cars running on $5000 120' x 80' pieces of ozite, sanding down $40 in foams that they barely last 1 weekend, burning up batteries, escs and motors in the process. End result: No new racers or grassroots tracks to keep it going.

I'm not sure why the guys who prefer off-road seem to think the decline on-road is some sort of victory for them. If they don't learn from the scenario described above, the same thing could happen to off-road.

No matter what, it's not good for the hobby.

[trailranger]

shouldnt that be the same for Offroad then?, the costs should be the same apart from the indoor tracks... I know onroad tracks are generally closer to the center than offroad tracks but it depends.. i just cant see your point there, :cool:

It is just eaiser for a business to open a Dirt track and get customers than to open a On-Road track for a few die-hards. Your customer base will be larger for an off-road crowd. Meaning higher inventory turn-over, more entry fees, more people to add to the racing atmosphere, meaning more profits to keep the doors open.

The cheapest indoor racing surface to race on is the bare floor, but for some reason Ozite is "required" for indoor racing. Concrete can be prepped with an acid wash to give it more traction. Rubber tires are cheaper in the long run for racers, but foams rule the classes. The manufactures are just not considering the average joe who just wants to race once or twice a week and not spend $$$ to keep pace with the leader. Then when racing classes allow Rubber Tires on Ozite, the carpet seems to wear twice as fast costing the hobby shop more. If drifting were to take place, count your carpet toast very fast.

On-Road just seems to be an Arm-Race to spend money for the guns to beat down the competition. Its time to get back to grassroots and Spec-Race in the parking lots.

[balang_479]

It is just eaiser for a business to open a Dirt track and get customers than to open a On-Road track for a few die-hards. Your customer base will be larger for an off-road crowd. Meaning higher inventory turn-over, more entry fees, more people to add to the racing atmosphere, meaning more profits to keep the doors open.

The cheapest indoor racing surface to race on is the bare floor, but for some reason Ozite is "required" for indoor racing. Concrete can be prepped with an acid wash to give it more traction. Rubber tires are cheaper in the long run for racers, but foams rule the classes. The manufactures are just not considering the average joe who just wants to race once or twice a week and not spend $$$ to keep pace with the leader. Then when racing classes allow Rubber Tires on Ozite, the carpet seems to wear twice as fast costing the hobby shop more. If drifting were to take place, count your carpet toast very fast.

On-Road just seems to be an Arm-Race to spend money for the guns to beat down the competition. Its time to get back to grassroots and Spec-Race in the parking lots.

Im with you there....

Well here we dont really race indoors, there a few but not many and in fact hardly anyone uses foams because all the races are outside on tarmac, which makes it easier to build and less expensive to maintain....

[GHETTOTEACHER]

On-Road just seems to be an Arm-Race to spend money for the guns to beat down the competition. Its time to get back to grassroots and Spec-Race in the parking lots.

I just found out another hobby shop indoor track is talking of shutting down in my area. That is three tracks shutting down in my area in the next three months!
A buddy of mine and I agreed to the same conclusion that there is a sort of arms race that is makeing a hobby get out of hand and way out of pocket! I think the survival to on road is going back to the parking lot style track. The cost is just getting too high for our hobby to continue to survive.

[pleaseletmeon34]

I don't know...I've been in this a while, both on and off road. The off road tracks are a lot more work for the owner/operator. And the "clay" everyone wants isn't cheep either. We have one track here that is extremely well maintained. Even though its only open one day a week, you can go there any day of the week and find the owner working on it. Even the track I run, the owner is always working on it.


Then we have Wagner...don't know what to say about this place. I just don't get it! It has three big advantages.

1) Its far away from houses, and has no one to complain (in this day, that means alot!)

2) Its on public ground. No mortgage, no rent, no property tax.

3) Its already there!!

But nobody wants to use it??? :confused:

[Ed237]

I do a little of both onroad & offroad and I'm not really an expert at either, but even I can see some of the same issues happing with with off-road:

$800 1/8 vehicles with $300 motors running on meticulously groomed 'claypet' tracks.

Its only a matter of time.

[GHETTOTEACHER]

I think Wagner may be used in the very near future. A buddy of mine mentioned West Chester..... by April. I hope he is very wrong. He was right about two other tracks.. :(

[trailranger]

I do a little of both onroad & offroad and I'm not really an expert at either, but even I can see some of the same issues happing with with off-road:

$800 1/8 vehicles with $300 motors running on meticulously groomed 'claypet' tracks.

Its only a matter of time.

Just a matter of time...

and the claypet (carpet) tracks will bring in the arms-race....oh god I hope this does not happen with real racing like the BAJA 1000 or the Off-road truck series. Might as well run F1 cars out there.

[PrimeAKF11]

I think Wagner may be used in the very near future. A buddy of mine mentioned West Chester..... by April. I hope he is very wrong. He was right about two other tracks.. :(

You gotta be kidding me. ARE YOU SAYING WEST CHESTER TRACK IS GONNA CLOSE? :( :( :(

its a frigging pvc parking lot track for god's sake...

[pleaseletmeon34]

There seems to be a lot of rumors floating around about most of the local tracks. I tried looking into this a little (without stirring the pot) and came up empty handed.
Unfortunately the rumors do more damage then you think.

Probably would be a good thing to keep them on the down low ;) , and support your local track! If the unfortunate happens, then we will look into alternatives.



But back to your original post Prime.

I’ve seen the trend sway from off-road, to on-road, back to off-road in this area. I don’t think you were in it when the RS4 came out. By the time the RS4II came out, we were booming. It’s when the T-Maxx came out it slowly started shifting back to off-road. Will it swing back to on-road?? Not sure what it will take to bring the crowds back to on-road.

[Dirt King]

Onroad around my area is dead, has been for a while. It started costing more so the turnout dropped which led to less classes which made it harder for any newer ppl to ever do well and they stopped showing up and pretty soon there's nobody left.

Offroad is getting harder and harder to find too. It's a lot easier to just go find a friend with a big yard and dig it all up and run savages and revos around in it then it is to tune up a race truck, spend lots of money and drive hours to a track and only race once or twice a month.

[Quinton]

I like on-road because the cars look more real compared to a MT or truggy so you can paint up a body and have a slick looking car. But if that's all I had, I wouldn't be into r/c's much. I like to have a variety so no matter what's going on I can go run them and have some fun for the day. No serious racing, just some safe fun for a guy thats not gettng any younger. :)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/279000-279999/279399_195_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/279000-279999/279399_194_full.jpg

Or I guess you could convert your sedan into a rally car with some heigth underneath it and go anywhere.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/279000-279999/279399_63_full.jpg

[GHETTOTEACHER]

I understand and will do what Pleaseletmeon says. The West Chester one was give to me by a phone call. Do not go by what I say or hear-say is telling you. I had to confirm a number of rumors in the past three weeks. Sad to say some are true, but please confirm on your own. I'm not gonna carry tales.

I still think that on road electric perminent tracks are declining. Parking lot tracks will continue to work better.