Weird front engined 1/8 buggy...

[balang_479]

i saw this on Neo-buggy.net at its a poster of the RCMag race... but if you look at the 3rd down picture in the middle of that pink/purple buggy with n. 7 on it you will notice that the engine is place towards the front of the car it has to be facing backwards...

does any one know what this is??

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k133/Lamouche_2006/rcmagcup.jpg

[FXstrongSide]

i saw this on Neo-buggy.net at its a poster of the RCMag race... but if you look at the 3rd down picture in the middle of that pink/purple buggy with n. 7 on it you will notice that the engine is place towards the front of the car it has to be facing backwards...

does any one know what this is??

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k133/Lamouche_2006/rcmagcup.jpg
I can't say that I know what buggy it is, but I can see that there would be one benefit from that. You would have greater front traction.

[blktransam]

pretty wicked looking

[cosmicpossum]

The orange Number 4 buggy has that same engine placement so it almost HAS to be a kit of some kind.

[LD3Furious]

I tired checking the website, rcmag, but didn't find anything. Lemme post the link here over on the S-Grid...I think I know a few people there that might be able to offer some insight.

[choops]

go to rcmag.com
click TT 1/8 4x2 in magazine section menu.
looks like they run 1/8 two wheel drive over there.
Those cars are front wheel drive. There are videos also.
http://www.rcmag.com/reviews/categorie/4x2/pilotes/tractionseb04/philippe2

Steve

[Neon_Dave]

:eek: That is really unusual.... but cool :D

[RC10racer89]

I would think that they might have some problems with push, especially when the track starts to try out. That is by far the weirdest looking buggy I have ever seen...but I agree with Dave. Certainly different, but kinda cool.

[choops]

This one looks more modern

http://www.rcmag.com/reviews/categorie/4x2/pilotes/2005/s3traction05/voitures/IMG_1558.jpg

Steve

[Neon_Dave]

:D That one still looks cool - but I think the bumper is what makes it look so weird - It looks to me like it's a peice of foam attached to the front end with some sort of plastic wrapped around it all.

Otherwise that one just looks like a modern buggy with the chassis flipped around and rear dogbones and stuff taken out.

Pretty cool custom machines. It may be just me, but I'm not that much of a fan of FF cars because I like to be able to turn while braking :p They are lots of fun to drive because they are less prone to spinning out as compared to RWD's or some 4WD's

[LD3Furious]

The "new" TTR S3 perhaps? I ran the buggy the first summer it came out. From this pic, it looks very much the same. Shocks through the front arms, red ano'd towers, center diff top brace, radio tray set up, etc etc.

[choops]

Reciever pack is inside the bumper.

Been surfing that web site. Some neat stuff there.
Check out the retro section. Rc cars have come a long way.

Steve

[4DMNYC]

The buggy in the first pic looks like a mess. The buggy in the second pic looks like it's put together rather nicely. But FWD only? I don't see the benefit of this in an 8th buggy on a track, or even to bash for that matter. I would think you need control of the rear wheels more than the front while racing. Someone please enlighten me, as I don't race buggies. Also, if you don't have control of the rear wheels, how does the buggy respond to in air throttle, brake input? I hope I don't sound too newbish, but FWD only is already sounding overrated. I mean, these are race cars, not Hyundai's. :huh: I only see a slight benefit for on road racers.

[Demon-TC3]

the buggy in the first pic is actually pretty cool looking...i love the rear arms on that thing, they look totally awsome!

oh if the guy actually spent some time keepin it clean i bet it would look cool...anyone else noticed the remenence of a body shell used to widen the chassis?

[4DMNYC]

anyone else noticed the remenence of a body shell used to widen the chassis?

haha, yeah that yellow & white/black & red paint?, to the left of the chassis.

What front tires are those on the buggy in the second pic?

[balang_479]

This one looks more modern

http://www.rcmag.com/reviews/categorie/4x2/pilotes/2005/s3traction05/voitures/IMG_1558.jpg

Steve

that looks like the one... it also has PCM on it.

[balang_479]

It looks like a TT S3 but with the contents of the chassis bein reversed... very ingenuative... (SP.)


another opservations is that the chassis looks custom made, its out of sheet aluminuim and doesnt have a side kickup, very custom looking..

Wonder what advantages there are..

And the first one yeah, very strange, but having 2wd means that you can have a lighter buggy, if you look at the IFMAR 1/8 buggy regulations, but id rather it being rwd, than fwd.

[Dan H]

Wow, its like engineering gone backwards.

What next? FWD F1 cars??

[MattHiggins]

go to rcmag.com
click TT 1/8 4x2 in magazine section menu.
looks like they run 1/8 two wheel drive over there.
Those cars are front wheel drive. There are videos also.
http://www.rcmag.com/reviews/categorie/4x2/pilotes/tractionseb04/philippe2

SteveYou didn't hear me say it, but that thing looks like RC road kill.

[evst 360]

These buggies would be good for tight, curvy tracks. The FWD will pull the cars around the turns, making them corner better.

[Dirt King]

That rear trailing arm suspension is pretty cool. I wonder how it handles.

[balang_479]

The front suspension is part 7.5 sports and the rest looks hand built..

FWD may pull it around corners but there a reason why in the WRC FWd cars are at the dead bottom (or not used)...
but would be awesome to see it go.. also wouldnt the front wheels be in a continuous spin from the power?

[Demon-TC3]

im not so sure it is hand built..i think theres just allot there crammed into a small space which does give that impression. because of the design of the rear arms they dont have as much space to work with.

Still i do quite like it,

[RC10racer89]

These buggies would be good for tight, curvy tracks. The FWD will pull the cars around the turns, making them corner better.

I can't say that I'd agree with you there...

Tires only have limited traction. In a front wheel drive car you are steering, breaking, and accelerating all with the front tires. As a result front wheel drive cars usually have slower turn in than rear wheel drive or four wheel drive cars. Also if you get on the power too early coming out of the corner and spin the front tires you obviously won't have any traction in order to steer. This usually results in horrendous understeer.

It is certainly a different racing class. It looks like they have done a good job of putting the weight on this cars up front. Look at where the rx packs, engine, etc, are to help combat the problems I mentioned above by putting more weight on the front tires.

[badboy2]

whats the purpose of doin this?the owners are prolly bored..

[atm92484_3]

whats the purpose of doin this?the owners are prolly bored..

Its probably a class. In the U.S., we have 4wd 1/8 buggy and thats it; over seas, theres defiently a rwd class as well and from the looks of it, likely a fwd class.

[balang_479]

I can't say that I'd agree with you there...

Tires only have limited traction. In a front wheel drive car you are steering, breaking, and accelerating all with the front tires. As a result front wheel drive cars usually have slower turn in than rear wheel drive or four wheel drive cars. Also if you get on the power too early coming out of the corner and spin the front tires you obviously won't have any traction in order to steer. This usually results in horrendous understeer.

It is certainly a different racing class. It looks like they have done a good job of putting the weight on this cars up front. Look at where the rx packs, engine, etc, are to help combat the problems I mentioned above by putting more weight on the front tires.

No No its defenately the same racing class..... i read on that site that they race in the 1/8 buggy class because thats what they are. but being 2wd your allowed different rules, such as a lighter car (as light as you want, while 4wd is down to 3.2kg) so you could have a super light car which is almost as good as the 4wd theoretically... FWd must have some advantages.,otherwise why race it.

Look at The IFMAR 1/8 buggy rules and their also for 2wd vehicles that race in that class.

[rccardude04]

FWD would give a lot more weight on the front end of the car. This would make for some killer off-power steering. ALL KINDS of turn-in (if you aren't hard on the brakes anyway) but would also produce a VERY stable on-power car. I couldn't imagine it'd be super stable down the straights unless you had a bunch of downforce, but it'd sure turn in like crazy and would welcome FAST throttle application to yank out of a turn without the risk of the back end breaking loose.
I'd like to try driving one.
-Eric

[rccardude04]

Google translation has this to say about the funny looking transmission in the center of that first car ...
"The originality also lies in its transmission. A clever mechanism acts as anti-ice-skating. It is composed of a slipper (clutch with slip). If there is detection of ice-skating, the slipper makes turn a kind of endless screw (via an oil bath). This screw then will make turn a cam which will make decrease gases. It is a superb mechanics of precision. "
Sounds like if the rpm of the drivetrain doesn't match that of the amount of throttle being applied, that little arm will only allow the carb to open as far as it should for the drivetrain RPM. This would reduce wheelspin.
Very interesting...
-Eric

[Dan H]

I don't think it'd turn in like crazy because FWD cars naturally understeer on power, even if the weight is all up in the front. Fast throttle application wouldn't mean anything if a 4WD car can get down the power to the ground easier for better acceleration out of the turns.

And judging from those converted FWD buggies, they don't have rear brakes so braking performance would be much worse.

[rccardude04]

You didn't read did you? :p
I said turn in like crazy. If you're going INTO a turn on-power, you're not going to make it regardless of what you're driving.
I find myself a lot smoother and faster if I drive without using much if any brake at all. It makes you let off a little sooner so you're not going gun-ho into a turn.
-Eric

[balang_479]

You didn't read did you? :p
I said turn in like crazy. If you're going INTO a turn on-power, you're not going to make it regardless of what you're driving.
I find myself a lot smoother and faster if I drive without using much if any brake at all. It makes you let off a little sooner so you're not going gun-ho into a turn.
-Eric

I see what you mean, i also drive with as little as braking as possible, its keeps my driving more controlled, because as soon as i start braking hard, i 1. over shoot corners due to understeer, and 2 automatically hypothesis that i can accelerate for longer, which is wrong..

You will be turn in on a FWD but also significant understeer.. but 4wd is better in anycase, not saying FWd is bad.

[rccardude04]

I think the FWD would give you a very odd advantage during a race as well as probably a few more disadvantages. The turn-in would mean higher initial cornering speeds, so if you're good at blocking ... REALLY good at blocking, you could have an advantage there. However, I do know that the acceleration wouldn't be quite as good.
We also haven't mentioned here that the current 4wd 1/8 buggies aren't really a TRUE 4wd. The center differential gives way more than half the power to the front tires anyway. The reason I can't stand driving 1/8 is the horrendous lack of steering. I drove a buddy's Losi 8ight after he had it dialed in and I couldn't get the darn thing to turn. I know it is an awesome handling car, but 1/8 buggies in general just don't turn enough for me. I think the extra weight on the front with my driving style would be awesome off-power. On-power it'd be nice to have all four clawing, but if there's enough weight on the front, it'd make for a very nice car for a point-and-shoot driving style.
-Eric

[balang_479]

yeah coming out of a corner, teh FWd will really struggle to put down power, and the lack of the rear wheels pushing it will really put it at a disadvantage.

I dont understand when you mean 1/8 buggies down turn enough...on offroad they are the best handling machine there is (you cant compare it to on-road that for sure) so i dont understand what youre saying there.

[trxcrazy345]

looks wierd but efficent

[Dan H]

That Losi 8ight needs to be setup for less understeer then. I had no problems getting my Mugen XR to turn in the dirt. In fact, it had a bit too much oversteer.

[rccardude04]

I just always found that 1/8 buggies push. My GT is set up so on the edge that brakes put it into a loop. I've always found that truggies push like crazy too. I'm just saying that the FWD might have more (read "enough") bite going into a turn for some drivers.

The 8ight I drove was actually set up really well from what everybody thought. The guy driving it had it to his liking and it appeared to turn for him. I just don't seem to have the proper driving style I guess...
-Eric

[RCMadMatt]

Kyosho tried a front-wheel drive kit back in the early 90's with the Maxxum (I think that's the correct name), and the disadvantages of the ff layout (problems with putting power down out of a corner, jumping) outweighed its advantages (lighter weight, fewer moving parts).
It's still innovative, but would probably be a handful to get around a track smoothly.

Matt

[balang_479]

http://guenthers-hobby.de/IMAG0064.JPG

yeah this one... it looks weird.

Yeah there are many disadvantages with FW

[RC10racer89]

No No its defenately the same racing class..... i read on that site that they race in the 1/8 buggy class because thats what they are. but being 2wd your allowed different rules, such as a lighter car (as light as you want, while 4wd is down to 3.2kg) so you could have a super light car which is almost as good as the 4wd theoretically... FWd must have some advantages.,otherwise why race it.

Look at The IFMAR 1/8 buggy rules and their also for 2wd vehicles that race in that class.


My bad thanks for the additional info. (Well info that I missed anyway :p )

[Cicada]

Google translation has this to say about the funny looking transmission in the center of that first car ...
"The originality also lies in its transmission. A clever mechanism acts as anti-ice-skating. It is composed of a slipper (clutch with slip). If there is detection of ice-skating, the slipper makes turn a kind of endless screw (via an oil bath). This screw then will make turn a cam which will make decrease gases. It is a superb mechanics of precision. "
Sounds like if the rpm of the drivetrain doesn't match that of the amount of throttle being applied, that little arm will only allow the carb to open as far as it should for the drivetrain RPM. This would reduce wheelspin.
Very interesting...
-Eric
traction control! that's Genius!