New To RC......Need Opinions - nitro on road!!!

[Wardy24]

Hey Now!!! I am new to this whole RC world and i have narrowed down that i want to get involved in nitro and it has to be on road. first, i am not sure what the huge difference between touring and street is. they both seem like on road to me. i also want to start eventually getting involved with some competitve form of racing so i want a car that allows for me to add on hop ups in order to accomplish this. i know there are alot of RTR kits but from what i understand, they may not be the best for this sort of use. i have built a few nitro cars for my nephew so i am not intimidated by this but i want some suggestions on what would be best for my wants. i was interested last year in the HPI Proceed but i understand that it is discontinued....also, considering the Traxxas 4tec....so, feedback is welcome please

[WheelNut]

Basically touring cars are 4wd and 1/10th scale. Any 2wd on road car with foam tires is a track only car, and 1/8th nitro on roads are not a good way to get started, they are way to expensive and difficult to drive. If you want to race don't totally cheap out on your equipment, you don't have to spend a fortune, but don't get some mega cheap budget car because after a few races you'll be left wanting. The best thing to do really is to goto your local track and talk to racers there, they will be able to tell you what cars are popular and why (also getting a common car will make getting setup help easier). How easy it is to get parts is also important, if the local store doesn't carry parts for it you will have to wait for parts, EVEY time, which sucks! Probably something like the OFNA CD3 pro kit would be a good starting car. You should really consider a kit to build, that way you will learn how your car works, plus building it is fun! So basically I would really find out what is popular in your area first, goto the local hobby shop and the local track, those are your best resources.

btw- Even if right now the only track open is the indoor carpet track go there anyways, it will be all electric racing, but lots of those guys race nitro too, so they will be able to help you. You may also find that an electric car is the best way for you to get started in the hobby (they are really cool too!).

[Wardy24]

thanks for the info........some good tips and clarification on the 3 types of cars......what is your opinion on the Ofna and the Traxxas i mentioned above? i know the traxxas is supposed to be a well built car but is RTR. like i said, i have built a few cars for my nephew so i already have an idea about make up of the cars

[Eli the rc guy]

About the building thing that WheelNut Told u about, its not about general Nitro's Its Ur Own nitro, so u get to know ur own car more. I wouldnt Go with the the 4tec just becasue it is way,way too powerful for a local hobby track or anywere. For begining I'ed Stick to HIP. They have lots of hop-ups for their cars and U can find parts for them anywere. Spacificly a rs4 3-evo RTR. Its not the fastest, but I've hurd some great things about it. Should be a good experience. Good Luck.

[z-man280]

i think a nitro TC3 would be a great starter, and I happen to know where there is one at a great price! :D



popcorn

[Wardy24]

I have heard a few people say the 4tec is really super fast and hard to control......who makes the nitrotc3?

[z-man280]

i can get you a CEN CT5 ( worlds fastest rtr) for a great price...

[Wardy24]

can you send me a link to view the car please?

[z-man280]

www.cenracing.com look for the CT5 kit... site is slow right now...sorry.

[Wardy24]

what is the price on a kit like that?

[z-man280]

i will send you a pm

[Demon-TC3]

hmm...presonally i would reccomend starting electric and going nitro at a later date...reason is taht nitros need much more maintenance than electric in order to keep em running PERIOD! electrics are not AS maintenance demanding but still need it from time to time but not as much....that said the most competative guys will rebuild their cars every couple of races ( Me for instance :p)

Nitro does requiere much more than electric because, not only is the engine a pain to maintain and tune (will need minor tuning pretty much every time you run it) but its also very messy and the components in general need more maintenane.

Not stopping you from buying one, its great to see more people in teh RC world, but just reccomend you think twice before you go Nitro.

[Wardy24]

i have consideredn electric. not sure if that has the speed i am looking for. but i did hear that the new thing in electris is using brushless motors....what is the difference with those in comparison to regular electric?

[z-man280]

by comparison, the electric 4-tec will hit 24 mph., the 2.5 nitro, 60+, the 3.3, 70+. yes, its true, electric is much , much easier, plug-n-play, and you dont have to woory about much. Nitro has bexome much mroe reliable as of late, a good tune on a engine will hold for a very long time, and ran with proper car, will last long as well.

Brushless electric?? with a GOOD battery, and a brushless set-up, you can hit some speeds as fast, and faster than nitro,..but at a cost. figure the kit, plus approx. $300 MORE.....not including charger, ect.

[Demon-TC3]

Yea sure a stock electric is slower...but shove a 15 turn motor in most cars and youll have plenty of speed!

if you spend as much on an electric as on a nitro youll have a pretty fast electric which required much less maintenance!

And its much easier to increase the speed of an electric tahn a nitro...mainly because they weigh allot less...ever wonder why the worlds fastest record was set by a BL car rather than a huge nitro engine? cos it weighs very little!

[notofast]

Electric hum??????!!!!!

All you need is your car and about 3-5 battery packs :D and after your batteries are dead you will need to take a brake :roll2: till you recharge your batteries

Nitro.

You just need your car and nitro gas. And the time that you will need to refill your tank is about 30 seconds plus you can run your car longest you want, longest you have gas. :teacher:

[Demon-TC3]

yea thats true i guess, but fuel you need to buy more...the price of fuel in the UK is actually fairly expensive and a gallon is about as much as a fairly descent battery for bashing!

Yes there are m,any advantages to Nitro but i just think for a beginner electric would be more suitable...lower run times measn less wear and less maintenance doesnt it?

[Eli the rc guy]

Gotta be conserned useing Nitro too. Wehn ur a begininer u dont know that much about the rc's and I have hurd some stories of people that begin this hobbbie, buying a ntro becasue they think its " Cool" and " Wayy!! better then that A** electric" then after a week they sell the car casue the motor is screwed over. =T Another reason i go with electric is like Demon-Tc3 said.. The nitro isnt cheap. but Up to u. Ps: The Cen website can realy help u with tuning and stuff like that. I lunred alot from there.

[z-man280]

Nitro has made leaps and bounds of progress tho. EP is great , but if you have a jones for speed, unless you have DEEP pockets, nitro is the way. p.s., if ya want a CEN, let me know..................:D

i can beat dang near anyones prices..

[Demon-TC3]

still not too sure...i think Nitro engines although are still fairly strong in the right hands, most nitros are intended for people that have some idea of what they are doing...a nitro engine is an ABC engine and if improperly tuned will blow / crack / warp very quickly.

Its not just the engine and tuning, nitro cars on the whole need lots more atention..worst comes to worst with an electric youll lose signal and itl ither cut out of power or throttle off somewhere ito a hedge....a nitro engine has the possibility of reving itself to peices...literally!


So although nitros are allot of fun, its not "no strings attatched" fun..you need to spend a fair few hours maintaining the thing...for every hour of running your looking at about between half and 1 hour maintenance..and thats if your just a basher! obviosuly its not always the case and you can get away with about 10 mins once its all dialled in. But with electric bashing its much easier and much cleaner and not AS demanding in terms of maintenance...

Still, if your still after a nitro, by all means go ahead...however i would advise somethin with a plate chassis and NO gearbox - direct drive is much easier to use and maintain (by this i mean simlple pinion spur set up) problem with 2 speed gearbox is that theres MUCH more to go wrong..more setting up...and since its heavier its not that all much more performance...

if you want something cheap and fun nitro, get a Tornado 1/8 truck...some chinese company make it but its allot of fun and parts are available very cheap from most destributors (friend had one which i bought for him and i much prefered it to any of my nitros)

[Wardy24]

i wasnt to interested in doin goff road...really wantedto go on road as it seams much faster and more fun......i still dont understand the difference between brushless and non brushless electric motors.... i have heard like z-man said they they are as quick if not quicker than high end nitro cars but cost big bucks.......can anyone recomend a site talking about brushless vs non-brushless.

[Demon-TC3]

Brushless does cost allot of cash but brushed motors are also pretty good.

As i said before, a 15 turn in most cars would make it very fast...12 turn even faster...doesnt always need to be brushless....


AS a first timer i guarantee you wont be disapointed with a 15 turn in your car...problem with too fast is you wont be able to control it....

[notofast]

i still dont understand the difference between brushless and non brushless electric motors

Well let me try to explain. :teacher:

Brushed Motors:
Brushed motors use mechanical brushes to commutate the current in the motor windings. Because brushed motors commutate the incoming current, they can be powered by a direct current (DC) source. Brushed motors have two main parts:
A housing that contains the field magnets (stator)
A rotor made up of coils of wire that are wound in the slots of an iron core and connected to a commutator.
The brushes are in contact with the commutator and carry current to the coils. Over time these brushes can wear out and introduce friction into the system, this does not happen with brushless servo motors.


Brushless motor
Class of motors that operate using electronic commutation of phase currents, rather than electromechanical (brush-type) commutation. Brushless motors typically have a permanent magnet rotor and a wound stator

Now that's the differences between Brushless and brushed motors.

Now in terms of turns like Demon-TC3 said less (wire) turns you have more torque and speed you get.
:wave:

[Demon-TC3]

Just a small edit, most of the stuff you said is perfect other than last statement, the less turns you have the more revs you get but at the sacrifice of torque.
so when you go for the hotter motors (standard is 27 turn motor) you will need to go lower in pinion teeth to compensate for the lower torque and also because there is less wire it will heat up faster (several reasons why) so you will need to allow the motor to rev higher to prevent too much heat buildup.

[notofast]

Just a small edit, most of the stuff you said is perfect other than last statement, the less turns you have the more revs you get but at the sacrifice of torque.
so when you go for the hotter motors (standard is 27 turn motor) you will need to go lower in pinion teeth to compensate for the lower torque and also because there is less wire it will heat up faster (several reasons why) so you will need to allow the motor to rev higher to prevent too much heat buildup.

Yes you right.
Sorry about that.

[InspGadgt]

Well if you plan on racing reguardless if you choose electric or nitro check your local racing scene first to find out what is going to be legal. The CEN may be fast and all but the engine may not be race legal. In electric a brushless setup may not be legal. It all depends on what rules your local tracks are using.

Top speed may be be nice and all but remember on a track top speed really doesn't mean much. All the cars in the same class are going to be close in top speed. The ones that are setup the best, handle the best, and are driven the best is going to be the car that wins. Typically on a track with an average of say a 15 second lap you are only going to spend about 3 or 4 seconds on the straight, the rest of the time is in the corners on the infield.

Also keep in mind...the faster you go the greater your chance of breaking something. Some of the most fun I've ever had racing has been with my slowest cars running stock Mabuchi motors. Yeah it's slower but the racing is a lot closer and a lot more competitive.

[Wardy24]

wow, alot to digest............alot to consider.......

[z-man280]

[QUOTE=InspGadgt Some of the most fun I've ever had racing has been with my slowest cars running stock Mabuchi motors. Yeah it's slower but the racing is a lot closer and a lot more competitive.[/QUOTE]


WELL SAID!!!!

If speed is what you are looking for, the CEN, 4-TEc, and a few others will feed the need, but as Insp. said,...driver input will always play the biggest factor on the track. Spec classes in electric are a total blast, because of the tight running and the driver skill it takes. I have said this over and over, but the best equipment doesnt mean the win. I have ran local tracks, basically local club races in parking lots, with wooden jumps for the "truck class",...and kicked butt with a stampede...

It all depends on what ultimately you want to do.

[Demon-TC3]

Im running in an indoor club running an old TC3...still competative as hell though..(that said have just upgraded to a TC4 FT) and i can honestly say i love it! its not the fastest form of RC but it is relatively competative and at the end of the day everyone knows that driver skill is the most important aspect of most racing...obviously good kit does help but id say about...60 maybe 70% of club racing sucess is down to driver skill...

oh and when it comes to speed, when someone at out track says "my car is faster than yours" (which has not actually happend that often) the first reaction is "so what"...its not about straight line speed...handling is far more important...if your car is faster along a streight it will give you perhaps a half a second to one second lead...but that means your torque is lower..that means that when it comes to the technichal areas of the track that half a second you gained is lost...and thensome!
Now this is coming from a racing sort of perspective, when it comes to Bashing you want to start of slow, then slowly and gradualy build up the speed so you can control the car without killing it.

[Wardy24]

what make is the TC3 and TC4?

[Demon-TC3]

Associated. - Very good part supply and excellent price.

[Wardy24]

Hey Now...Santa Was Good To Me...!!!! My wife bought me for xmas the traxxas nitro 4 tec.....was quite supred actuallyu but happy none the less.......i guess she does listen to me....my questrioj is though are there options for bodies that fit this car? i was told the 200mm hpi bodies will work. is this true?

[Demon-TC3]

Most 200mm bodies should work not just HPI.
If you are wanting to spray a shell yourself i would go to a model shop and choose there so you can see sizes for yourself. as for manufacturer of shells i personally think ProtoForm is the best.