3000 mAh cells

[glowplugman]

What's wrong with 3000 mAh cells? I've heard a lot of bad things about them. Especially Trinity cells. I'm not experienced with electric cars and I've never owned one (my first car was a Nitro Rustler). I want to get an electric car (probably the RC10B3) sometime soon and lately I've been steered away from 3000 mAh cells. I thought they were the best cells out there. So what's the deal, Chris?

[Snake64]

I'm not Chris, but I'll try to answer this...

You stated yourself you are an electric newbie...hence the 3000s are the worst thing you could get. First, they're overpriced (especially the Trinity cells, which is prolly why people have worse things to say about them). Second, since you'll just be starting in electric, you'll likely run stock. A class 3000s have never done well in with the exception of 8 minute 1/12 scale races where they need all of the runtime they can get. Why? 3000s have very low voltage compared to even an average pack of 2000s. They also have much higher internal resistance - the ability of a cell to put out it's juice is a way to put it. Kinda like using 3" PVC versus 1/2" copper tubing to supply your swimming pool pump - an extreme example, but think of 3000s as the 1/2" copper tubing. In mod classes (where most of these cells are used) the drivers can drop a few winds to compensate for the overall lack of voltage and punch. But in stock, you're stuck with a 27 single.

And last, but DEFINITELY not least...they're FRAGILE. Very much so. Some otherwise perfectly fine packs have had a cell die in as little as 3 cycles with absolutely no warning. The maintenance required is rigorous - you need a very sensitive peak charger, you need to discharge them carefully, and then you need to charge them back up just a bit to store or something like that...it's a mess. And even with that, sometimes cells just die or lose loads of runtime (some people have noted losses as many as 100 seconds, making the pack basically a no-voltage 2400!!)

Your best bet is to go with one of the following cell types - RC1700s, Sanyo 1900s, RC2000s, Sanyo 2200s, RC2400s. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.

RC1700s - pros: dirt cheap cons: prolly hard to find a good new matched pack because they're old cells

Sanyo 1900s - pros: even cheaper than RC1700s cons: AFAIK only available from Hilltop RC (not much of a con, a great place to buy from), a hair less runtime than most 2000s, a bit low on voltage. Some have, however, been noted to be re-shrinked RC2000 cells.

RC2000s - pros: The R/C staple. All over, OK prices, good performance, good packs easy to come by. cons: Killer packs hard to come by these days, production could be slowing/stopping.

Sanyo 2200 NiMH cells - pros: Insanely cheap for the numbers - $5 each for 1.160-1.169 volt cells!! Insanely durable - used in DeWalt power tools, while they are NiMH like 3000s, they are constructed very differently and can be treated much like NiCds (except you don't trickle or pulse them and you really need to repeak them as close to your run as possible). Volts and runtimes very similar to average 2nd run 2400s but actual IR is a bit higher. Cons: Like 1900s, hard to get, but Hilltop has em. Trinity would like to see these cells off of the market.

RC2400s - Pros - Good performance with the 2nd version. Cons - hard to get (Trinity is only recently getting them to everyone else), high prices as a result.

[Snake64]

Just so you know - I personally run Hilltop Sanyo 2200 NiMH cells. Best cells I've ever ran. They make 4 minute runtime EASY in stock sedan roadcourse, and I imagine I could prolly keep up and finish easily in mod too. Also, they like to be run often and hard - they put up their best voltage on the 2nd run of the day.

[Orioner]

Hey guy! What about the SANYO 3000mah!? They have higher voltage than MY Sanyo 2000 and they have LOADS of run time! They are durable (trust me I have my info,O.K.?) but they are expensive. The ORIONS are the best (duh! What else would an Orioner say?!)!!!!! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[XXXER]

[ QUOTE ] Originally posted by Snake64 :


You stated yourself you are an electric newbie ... hence the 3000s are the worst thing you could get . First , they ' re overpriced ( especially the Trinity cells , which is prolly why people have worse things to say about them ). Second , since you ' ll just be starting in electric , you ' ll likely run stock . A class 3000s have never done well in with the exception of 8 minute 1 / 12 scale races where they need all of the runtime they can get .

The maintenance required is rigorous - you need a very sensitive peak charger , you need to discharge them carefully , and then you need to charge them back up just a bit to store or something like that ... it ' s a mess . And even with that , sometimes cells just die or lose loads of runtime ( some people have noted losses as many as 100 seconds , making the pack basically a no - voltage 2400 !!)

How can you say that they are a really bad thing to get for a newbie ? they almost require no deep discharging , actually , they have no memory , I don ' t see why he can ' t get them , the only hard thing is to get a new charger , that is it . They are rapidly becoming very popular and already have takenthe spotlight away from even the new 2400 ' s ( actually what I run , I like NiCds ) And so what if trinity 3000 ' s cost the most , get a different brand ( actualy , check out www . integy . com they have the best prices I have seen and they guarantee numbers ) As for the run time and voltage loss , I have no Idea about that , if you have had this prob , please reply and tell me what you are experiencing , I ahve never heard of this .

[DerekB]

3000 ' s are not a difficult cell to maintain properly . Just because the require a different charge / discharge ritual than other cells doesn ' t make them difficult . They do have a lower voltage ( not HUGE ) and there is a difference in racing . For just fooling around they are fine , although I would suggest going for 2000 ' s or 2400 ' s .


Derek

[Snake64]

Sanyo 3000s - havent even seen a pack in real life , let alone hard much about ' em .

FWIW , I have never actually ran a pack of 3000s - but several things have turned me off from them . First , the sticker shock . Second , the stories - I ' d say horror stories but most of the time those refer to rare occurrences . I ' ve heard lots of stories from lots of knowledgeable people who have had 3000s crap out . Third , I haven ' t dumped with 2200s , not even close - what am I going to do with 800 mAh more and less punch ????

3000s are the worst for an electric newbie because most electric newbies don ' t buy Novak Milleniums , Turbo35s , and BC112s ... or if they do they likely don ' t know how to set them up for 3000s . Heck , I ' ve been racing on / off for 5 years ( and on for the last year and change ) and I get by perfectly fine with an Apex Alpha charger !!!

Also , I ' ve just been doing a bit more thinking ... maybe the reason they ' re steering you away from T cells isn ' t so much that the T cells are any worse but maybe more that they just want you to boycott Trinity period . I know I do ... although right now I don ' t particularly feel like retyping the entire ' why Trinity is a monopoly ' ( or maybe more accurately a conflict of interest )... so here ' s the condensed version . If a cell is shipped to the USA and it ' s an RC - intended cell ( i . e . RC2000 , Pana3000 , RC3000 , etc etc ), it gets shipped to Trinity direct . And currently only Trinity . Hence the reason Trinity was the first and only ones to market with the 2nd generation 2400s and the Sanyo 3000s for a while . ( As for SMC - yes , they had them too but they ' re based in Canada , hence those floppy - headed Canadians actually have something worthwhile up there in all that snow =)

IMO , for fooling around , 3000s are still a bad idea - when you ' re just fooling around , you don ' t stop after 4 minutes and pick it up , let it sit for an hour while you wait for the imaginary heats to run by , clean your car , and run for another 4 minutes . You run the entire pack through it at once . No big deal with 2000s , but with 3000s ( and maybe to a small extent 2400s ?) that ' s quite a long stretch for a car to be running ! I wouldn ' t be surprised to see a basher running 3000s to go through motors and ESCs a bit faster than one running 2000s .

[Throtl Hapie]

Thank you thank you!!!!!!! I posted a few times asking about batteries and chargers. I wanted to get lots of run time (thinking a 3k would be good) and a better charger to charge them (novak millenium)

Then i realized something, the millenium costs about 130, and so does the power supply (i think), thats 260 dollars for an expensive charger (that doesn't even come with a power supply at that price), and a PS. I refuse to pay that much for a charger bc i want to have fun, not be broke. My ta03 with bearings, radio, and p2k motor cost me about 260 dollars, the same for a charger and a power supply. That's terrible. Thanks for the info, now i'm just gonna get a super brain (cheapo price!) and a 2000 battery all for the price of about 80-90 dollars. Marvellous.