Getting into Planes?

[dhutch]

Ive been driving and racing Rc cars (both electric and nitro) for 11years, since i was 8.
- My cosin also have a raptor30, which i have *flown* (hovered, poorly)

Im now looking at maybe geting a plane.
- Ive been haveing a good look around at what avalable, just trying to get a feel of the hobbie.

Seams like mose fot he bigginer planes are made of EPP foam. And that they tend to cost around the £50 mark. (im in the uk)
- There then usally power by NiMHs and brushed motors, with an ESC and two fairly std servos.
- The most expesive part seams to be the radio gear, which of caurse needs to be 3/4channel, not just 2ch car stuff.

Ive never flown a plane, so i figure im going to need a nice easy to fly one, and somthing that can take a fair bit of beating.
- However, looking at some of the videos of these things, they seam far tougher than i would have thought.

So basicaly im wondering what plane you guys would suggest to a total plane noob?

Also, what about 2nd hand, particaualarly with regarded to radio gear?


Daniel

[Leo L]

Hi Daniel,

Welcome to R/C flying. I usually suggest that a person who has never flown before start with a ready to fly (RTF) plane. If you buy one from a reputable manufacturer, you know that the plane will be in flying order (of course there are the occassional lemons), giving you the best chance to fly instead of crash. However, be prepared to crash. Everyone crashes at one time or another, even experienced flyers.

I suggest that you start by downloading the free simulator program and at the same time buying the Airhogs AeroAce. (It sells in Europe under a different name. Check out the various threads regarding this plane here, on RCUniverse, RCHangout, RCGRoups and WattFlyer.) This plane is only 9" long, is 2-channel and extremely easy to fly, and is virtually indestructable.

Once you are ready to buy a "real" plane, if you have a local hobby shop, talk to the people there and find out what planes they have on hand and what they recommend. Before you buy, let us know their recommendation and we'll give you advice. If you do not have access to a local hobby shop, I would recommend that you consider either the HobbyZone SuperCub or the EasyStar. Other good beginner planes are the Aerobird Challenger, T-hawk, SkyFly and RedHawk.

[dhutch]

Fair enough.

I have a mate whos heavly into planes (as well as cars) so ive been talking to him a bit too.
- He recons i should aim to spend about £100 for a RTR plane, given that i already have a NiCd/NiMH charger, which will cut the cost signifcatly.

He linked to the two planes below (first one on each page) saying that they would be ok begginer planes, although likely to get boring fast as soon as i learn to acttally fly.
http://www.alshobbiesstore.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Jamara_Electric_Models_140.html
http://www.alshobbiesstore.com/acatalog/Kyosho_Electric.html

He then said that if he was me, he would proberbly actaully get a "zagi"
- He said the polyprop foam was almost indestructable, and that the plane was very easly to fly, as well have having a lot of potential should i get good.
- Ive seeing a "nearly new" zagi for sale on ebay, and im serously considering giving it a go having seen a few videos of it being flown, crashed, and reflown. Its around £50, ready to got with the adition of transmitter.

My mate, and certianly his dad, are very experenced planesman, so if there was any plane related problems i they could certainly sort them out.
- And i myself are well capable of opertating/fitting radio, speed controlers motors etc from my car background.


He also linked to this as the plane he learnt on
http://www.brentfordrc.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=499

And this as one that would be too advanced, although within budget (just as a example i think)
http://www.alshobbiesstore.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Hobbyzone_Parkzone_146.html


Daniel

[Evo 78]

Welcome to RC! :wave: There are alot of airplanes that would make a great trainer and come rtf (ready to fly). As a first airplane, alot of people would reccomend a EPP plane, because of thier durability. Multiplex makes a plane called the " Easy Star" that is EPP and comes rtf. ( I believe one can also get it in an arf too). I hope that helps! :) ---Evo

[Leo L]

The HobbyZone SuperCub is probably the best beginner plane currently available; even better than the EasyStar that Evo78 wrote about: http://www.alshobbiesstore.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ealshobbiess tore%2ecom%2facatalog%2fsearch%2ehtml&WD=super%20cub&PN=Online_Catalogue_Hobbyzone_Parkzone_146%2ehtml% 23a1479#a1479

Of the planes that you listed, the two Cessna planes are decent for your second plane. They are more difficult to fly, and are prone to a lot more damage, than the Beginner planes like the Aerobird Challenger, T-hawk, SkyFly, Slow-V,and SloStick. The third plane that you listed is an advanced level plane along the same characteristics as the ParkZone Stryker. The fourth plane is also an advanced plane.

If your friend and/or his dad are going to teach you to fly via a buddy-box set-up, then you basically can go with virtually any plane; realizing that the more advanced the plane the longer you will need to stay under the instructor's control. Usually, the best bet is to go with a proven beginner plane to get all of your basic learning done, then invest in a more advanced plane. Everyone crashes. The bigger the steps that you try to take, the more crashes you will experience and the more time and money you will spend in repairs, rather than in flying.

[aeajr]

Getting your first plane? What should you get

If you have an instructor, follow his/her advice as to what to get as your
plane. Getting info here is good, but discuss it with the instructor before
you buy.

If you are going to be helping a new flyer learn to fly, this thread might
be helpful. Here is the method I use to teach:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499281
Helping people Learn to Fly
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5767

RTF, ARF or KIT? What does this mean?

An RTF, Ready-To-Fly, typically requires virtually no building. Everything
is built. You attach the wing and perhaps the tail and you are done.
Typical investment of time is 15 minutes to 2 hours. The Aerobird
Challenger is a
good example of an RTF plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=HBZ3500
RTFs ALWAYS include an installed radio system an may also include the
battery and charger.

ARF vs kit. How are they different? Depends on your definition.

ARFs and kits always require you to buy and install the electronics.
However some of the makers, such as Mountain Models and GWS,
offer select packages that include the kit and the electronics. You still
have to assemble/build, but all the guess work is taken out of what
electronics to buy. This makes it very easy for the first time builder
to get it right. The radio itself is usually not included in these
"complete packages"

Most wood KITS are a box of sticks and sheet parts that are cut from larger
sheets. You glue them together to form the structure then you cover it with
heat shrink film, some other covering, or paint the finished structure.
Build time could run 10-30 hours including gluing, covering and fitting out
with
the electronics. The Mountain Models Switchback would be an example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/switchback.php

As an example, Mountain Models wood kits, are typically very complete and
often include the motor, the hardware and the covering material. For some





people, kit building is as much or more fun than flying the planes. If you
want to tackle your first wood kit, Mountain kits have an outstanding
reputation for ease and completeness. This thread talks about their planes:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295225

Wood ARFs are typically kits that are already built and covered into major
structures such as fuselage, wings, tail, etc. Here you are doing final
assembly. The Ascent is a good example.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL1075
Typical build time is in the 3-10 hour range. Much less time and
much less skill is required. Then you install the electronics.
Here are some examples from Great Planes:

All foam kits, in my opinion, are more similar to ARFs than they are to wood
kits. They typically consist of large molded pieces that glue or friction
fit together. typical is 3-10 hours to complete. The Graupner Tipsey is a
good example.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Some foam kits call for covering but the Tipsy, for example, does not.
When required, covering can often be done with tape which can be very easy
for the new builder. So I consider most foam kits to be more ARF than kit.
Multiplex and GWS kits fall into this kit/ARF class and are usually very
complete. As a first step from an RTF, these can be very good choices.

Foam/wood kits are likely to require some stick and sheet assembly, but
typically much less work than an all wood kit. The Mountain Models
SmoothE is a good example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
The fuselage is wood but the wing is foam. Very easy for the first time
builder to be successful.

There are many other brands that provide very high quality products. I use
these companies as examples because I often recommend their planes.


SPACE

How much space do you have for flying? If you have totally clear space of
at least 600'X600', about 9 square acres, approx 4-6 6 square
football/soccer fields, then I can recommend one class of plane. Call this
class 1 - CL1

If your space is more like 200X200 (one square acre) then a different plane
is in order. Call this class 2 - CL2
If it is less than that, different again. This we will call this class 3 -
CL3

These are my own designations and are based on my subjective ranking of the
space a new flyer should have when learning on his own. An experienced
flyer can fly faster planes in smaller spaces, but a new flyer wants to have
more
space so you are not in a constant state of panic trying to turn. Now, you
can get above the edges of the field and expand your space, but if you lose
control, you drop in woods, on top of kids or smash someone's
windshield. If that windshield is in a car is traveling down a road when
you hit the windshield, you could cause an accident or worse.

So much for space. You get the idea.

I don't recommend pretty planes as first planes. They are too easy to
break, too hard to fix and look bad in short order. So you won't see any
especially pretty or true scale planes. Make one of those your second or
third plane.

I don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on
the list. If you want one of these, I would suggest the Firebird series
from
HobbyZone. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they
can also be very easy to lose. You should plan to fly them in dead calm air
when you are first starting.

I feel a high wing three channel R/E/T plane is your best choice for a first
plane. R/E/T will require a little more learning than the two channel R/E
planes but is a better choice as a first plane, in my opinion. These use
the same control inputs as more advanced planes and can be flown in
more wind once you have mastered them in calm conditions.

Below I list electric planes for beginners. Some come ready to fly, some are
almost ready to fly (add your own radio gear) and some are kits. All of them
are electric. If you are looking for your first plane, you should find
something here to peak your interest.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, this article may be helpful.


Six Keys to Success for new e-flyers
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Electric Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box
These also glide well so you can thermal soar
with them under the right conditions.


Slow-V from Parkzone - $140 -
I have flown the slo-V. My RTF of choice for small spaces.
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is the best choice for
people who only have a small space to fly or who have an indoor
place to fly, such as a large gym or similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2074785/tm.htm
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=426
Video
http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/Parkzone_Slo-V_240x180_nb.wmv
Night fly module on a Slo-V
http://rc-galaxy.com/messageboard/mb.asp?M=Slow_Flyers&CMD=ViewMsg&num=-8

T-Hawk - RTF - Excellent Value - $150-170
This company is really putting together some outstanding
packages. I have flown the T-Hawk. Excellent first plane.
Get the Extreme value package. It comes with extra wing,
tail and battery. This palne stands up to hard landings
Can be flown on 27 MHz or 72 MHz
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Buddy Box 72 MHz trainer system - $279
This is really unique!
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/t72rtfpatrpa.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243202&highlight=THawk
Videos
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawkvideos.html

Easy Star - RTF - $180
I have flown the Easy Star - Great plane for new flyers!
Super tough foam. Comes with 72 MHz radio in the US.
Good parkflyer and a good glider
Radio in RTF package can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFXV0&P=ML
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Build Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459096
Videos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv
Mods, upgrades and more
http://www.mpx-easystar.de/
Add Ailerons - Start at post 195
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408&page=13&pp=15
Travel Box
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468625&goto=newpost

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $110 -
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 600 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard
landings. Their add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat
and drop
module add to the fun! The combat module makes a great lost plane locator,
even if you don't plan to fly combat. Great keep in the car plane - take
off the
wing and it goes back in the box fully assembled. Most can't do that!
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_hobbyzone_aerobird_challenger.htm
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Discover/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/aerobird_challenger_loops.wmv

Hobbico Sky Fly - $100
I own one of these. About the best landing gear and ground
handling of the planes I list here. If you have a hard runway, this may be
your best choice for ROG and runway landings.
NOTE: There is no reference in the documentation as to the range of the
radio. An e-mail from Hobbico suggests 500 feet. I can say with confidence
that I have had two of these out about 1000 feet with no range problems at
all. So I would say 1000 feet is safe under most conditions and adequate to
this
size plane. Your range experience may vary.
This is the least aerobatic of the planes listed.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKLV7&P=ML
Video
http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/hcaa1960-1961-deluxe.mpg
Review
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489248
Discussion thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493271&pp=15
Recommended wing reinforcement by mdp17681
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=75238&postcount=16


Hobbico Red Hawk $70
This is a very low cost 3 channel plane. It is good for low wind conditions
but lacks the strong response needed for aerobatics or flying in strong
wind.
It is a good value for the price, especially when compared to the 2 channel
planes commonly seen at this price. It looks very much like the Aerobird
Challenger, listed above, but is not as responsive or aerobatic in stock
form.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKLV8&P=ML
Reports
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=107280&postcount=131


ESSENTIAL ADD-ONS AND POINTS TO CONSIDER

When evaluating costs, add the following items to your list.

For the Aerobird, Red Hawk and the Sky Fly
1 Spare wing and tail ($15-25) and 1extra battery pack (about $20 each)

The T-Hawk comes with spare wing, tail and two battery packs,
so factor that into the price and you will see it is closer in price
than it first appears.

For the Slo-V, two extra props and 1 gearbox seem to come in handy
as this is a front motor plane and these parts really take the damage
of nose in crashes. Don't know about other parts. The others are
pushers so props are less at risk. Add that extra battery pack.

The Easy Star really does not need a spare wing or tail. The wing is
very tough and very repairable. The Easy Star is a little heavier than
the others, so add-on battery packs should be at least 7 cell 900 MAh
2/3A or 4/5A battery packs, if you are using the RTF charger. The
Aerobird 7 cell, or the Parkzone 7 cell packs will work if you don't mind
changing connectors. The Easy Star RTF stock 6 cell is OK in calmer
conditions but get 7 cell add-ons. Figure at least 1 added battery
pack at $25 each.

If you have an 8 cell charger you can go to 8 cells, 9.6V, on the Easy
Star, but no more or you will burn up the motor. Be sure to check the
balance with the different battery packs.

The Easy Star, and the T-Hawk use standard modular electronics.
Makes it easy to replace parts or to upgrade the motor at a future date, if
you wish. The Easy Star RTF uses a standard 72 mhz radio equipment in North
America. The T-Hawk has a 72 MHz radio option as well as a buddy box
option. Or you can buy it without the radio and reciever and use your own.
All the others are 27 MHz.

[dhutch]

Thanks for the great post.
- I think a lot of it im already aware of, not going for scale/'pritty' planes for instance.
- BUt a lot of usfull info for sure. I ll have to go over it again when i have more time.

Spacewise, i have access tow several area, most of which are about the size of 2-4 football pitches. (most of of them ARE 2-4 football/rugby pitches!)

Im certianly 100% comptant at building rc cars, have build an rc heli, and am a second year engineering student whos being racing rc cars since he was 8. Ive also used heatshrink wingwrap before.
- So im not overly out off by the prospect of a kit/semi-built plane, infact, in mayways, i would perfer to build it, certainly i prefer buys cars as kits.
- However, im asl aware, that like cars, many of the lowend stuff seams to be cheaper and more avalable as RTR/RTF than kit?

Ive got a budget of say GBP100 (£100) to get me flying. Although i already have a charger (RipmaxProPeakVP NiMH/NiCd) and a bunch of stock servos (futaba s3003's and the like)



Daniel