Beginers on a budget read this.

[ATeam]

This is my first post here and I am NOT trying to start an argument. Just wanted to get that straight.

RC is a great hobby. I'm about to get back into it after a 2 year absence. I've been reading this board to catch up a bit on things. Alot has changed in two years.

I've noticed that alot of people are recomending the most expensive equipment. Theres nothing wrong with that and this is nothing against their opinion, but you DO NOT have to buy the most expensive stuff to be competitive.

When I was racing I won more races with my factory stock T3 steel turnbuckles and all. A tower system 3000 am radio($50), A novak rhino charger($65), 2-1500mah piranha packs($30 for both), a Reedy Firehawk($25), and a LRP Sprinter ESC($35-40 I think), than I did with anything else. Heck and at the time I thought that was expensive!

I ran NORRCA Sportsman stock truck at the local track, and I won races regularly with this equipment. I eventually moved up to expert stock and stil managed to win a few.

If cost is of no concern sure get the good stuff. But I didn't have the $$$$ for the $150 ESC and packs that cost $65+ a pop. I saved my money for things like replacement parts, entry fee's, motor brushes, pinions, spings, shock oil, and most of all TIRES! Things you can tune your car or truck with to improve handling and get those lap times down.

Before I got out of the hobby I worked my way up to a Lynx 3D, A B3 and T3, better batts and Motors.

You don't have to have the most expensive stuff to be able to compete for the victory. It's nice but not necessary. Driving skill is 90% of racing. If you can't turn good lap times with a stock motor, a expensive hand wound 12 turn double is gonna make you even slower because you won't be able to handle the power.

Bottom line if you wanna win races. Practice, practice, practice. Learning how to tune your vehicle and stay on the fast line around the track will do you more good than anything you can buy.

Last I do realize that there are tracks where racing has turned into nothing more than a battery war. If that is the situation at your track I feel sorry for you. Try finding a different track if possible, if not try finding others on a budget to race with. Believe me there are plenty of budget racers out there.

ATeam

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: ATeam ]

[IR]

For your first post, that was right on target. Good to have you here.

[RC Freak]

that was great. sniff sniff

[Jo_bomb17]

You DA MAN Ateam, glad to have u hear!That was so touching im in tears!J/K LOL!You ARE 100% correct.I just coulnt agree more!
SO WELCOME TO THE 5000+ group of the best guys{and a couple girls/women LOL** around! :D :)

[william2001]

Absolutely, I preach this all the time. Thanks for reminding folks. I've seen plenty of people win the A-Mains without the fancy stuff. It's all driving and taking care of the details (learning what all those adjustments do, picking the right tires, etc.) just like you said.

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: william2001 ]

[Jason_R]

Well said! My advice to some one on a budget and want some nice stuff buy used. Later

[Obi112]

Right on, ATeam. Nothing makes me angrier than posts recommending buying the Cyclone to people who are obviously beginners.

[Leet TC3]

I agree with all that has been said. Stock classes are mostly about the driver, not about the car.

But keep a few things in mind:

1. In general, the cheaper gear does not last as long. Sure, you can save a few bucks, but it may cost you in the long run if you keep melting that cheap ESC. Buy a Cyclone, and you may never have to buy another ESC. Heck, just having a user-replaceable input harnasses will be a big money saver. As me how I know. :D :D

2. When you reach the point where you are up against drivers of the same skill (which you WILL do if you race stock long enough), having that better battery/ESC/motor WILL win you the race. There is simply no question about this.

I guess it comes down to a few questions you have to ask yourself.

How long do you intend to be in the hobby?

Are you in it just to have fun, not caring if you place first or last? Or do you want to win the A main novice? How about the A main expert?

To each his own, and I salute anyone who has fun at this hobby. But the fact does remain, in RC Racing and in life: For the most part (let me repeat that...for the MOST part :) ), you spend more you get more.

Pay the Man now, or pay him MORE later.

[ATeam]

Thanks for the kind word everybody. Its great to find a well organized BB. Trinity's is great but I love the Ultimate BB design.

Leet I know what you mean and agree with you. You buy a Cyclone, or a LRP V6 once, but when I started I could barely afford the basics. It's easier when you have everything and if a ESC melts then all you have to buy is the ESC. Then you can afford a better one.

Hopefully in a few months I be back at the track. I just hope I have time, I'm moving in about a month, to begin the Police Academy for a town here in Texas. I'm gonna be pretty busy but I hope to fit some time for racing in there. If not I'll have more time after the academy is over.

Well I'll be in touch here. Until next time, get stuck in a RUTT(Rippin' Up The Track)!

ATeam

[TC3Racer316]

I couldn't agree more with ya. I get into the A-main almost every weekend. A lot of racers use Cyclones. I'm running a Team TC3 w/ all the graphite. I also run old 1700's and a Trinity 3000. I have a P2K. As for a radio, I run a Hitec Lynx AM. I don't see any benefit in a Computer radio. My ESC's a Novak Fusion. Battery charger is a Duratrax Intellipeak.

[ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: TC3Racer316 ]

[william2001]

Leet- Ok, you make some valid points here. But I think there is a point of diminishing returns, you have to spend quite a bit more, for just a slight improvement. I took quite a few stock A-Mains against good drivers with an XL2P radio, Tekin Speedstar esc, $10 steering servo, and not a graphite part in site. At the highest levels of racing you need the nice stuff, the racing is so tight. For club racing, you can still be one of the fast guys without the best of everything. Just hate to see the new guy get turned away because he thinks he needs all that.

[ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: william2001 ]

[ATeam]

TC3RACER316 how does that duratrax charger work. I was checking one those out today in a old RCCA mag and it looked like a good value.

As far as the equipment issue goes. The good stuff helps. But I agree completely with Williams post, it helps mainly at the highest levels of competition. It stinks to see somebody get turned off of the hobby because they think it's gonna cost them $1200 to get in it.

ATeam

[nsane]

My Intellipeak works fairly well, although there is a noticable difference between that and say a Novak Millenium (false peaks mainly). If you plan to do any serious racing I would get the Novak / or wait for the new Ionic.

[HowieStern]

Leet... i have to say that you are exactly what this thread is all about....

"Pay the Man now, or pay him MORE later."

no offence, but, you don't have a clue... some people just don't have the money PERIOD.... how do you buy a new cyclone with only 40 bucks?? or a new millenium with only 50 bucks?? or 4 new matched 3000 ni-mh packs with only 100?? you can't...

now do ya get "it"???

everyone knows you typically get more when you pay more... BUT, when you can't pay more... you do the best with what you do have... and at the local level, the more affordable stuff works just fine...

btw... in the last year i have had 1- Tekin 112C burn up... 1- Novak Dually go toasty.. 2- LRP's bite the bullet, several high buck digital servo's bite the dust, and 1- Rivergate power supply blow up.... are you SURE the more expensive equipment lasts longer??? (and i'm know for being "easy" on my equipment.... LOL)

peace out... :)

[Leet TC3]

Oh, but I do "have a clue".

It's called false economy. I have wasted gobs of money on buying cheap parts, gear etc. It breaks faster and easier, and gives you less performance. Sure, buy that plastic part now instead of saving up for a couple of weeks for the graphite one, and then watch it snap the first time you kiss the wall.

Yes, the law of diminishing returns apply, but not nearly as much as you think.

The money I wasted could easily have bought the better stuff right from the start.

Reread my post. You have to FIRST decide on what you want out of the hobby. I do NOT advocate spending the bucks. Obviously, if you don't have the dough, you can hardly spend it. But -IF- you are confident that you will be in the hobby for the long hall, you would be well advised to patiently acquire higher end gear, because it WILL save you money in the long run.

The point is simple, and should be clear. Do you think you could cut me a little slack here? I do speak from experience...

[jeepinator]

OK folks, calm down :p

I agree with all sides actually.
Expensive stuff is not required. That much we can all agree on. Right ?
OK, then the question becomes: Why buy the expensive stuff ?

Here are my reasons, in no particular order:

1) Because I can afford it (probably the most obvious, yet least spoken about reason)
2) Because I quite simply like to have the best stuff available. Call it psychosis, call it my hobby, call it stupid ... I just like having the best. No logic seems to apply here.
3) Performance. Agreed, the ratio of price vs. performance is not linear, but the difference in performance can be dramatic in some cases when buying the expensive stuff.
4) Quality. Again, diminishing returns, especially in this category, but I respect and am willing to pay for that extra few percent.
5) Bragging rights/pride. OK, a little cerebral here, but don't tell me it isn't true. People buy expensive things for image. I am not particularly into image when it comes to RC, and it is more of a fringe benefit to me. Some people, however, may find image important. I am not going to ague with it ... this is America.

There you have it. There may be other resons for other people, but those are my reasons.

To be honest, I admire and respect the dudes out there doing well with budget gear more than I do the rich kids, or the image freaks. I think they have a better understanding of the hobby and have a deeper respect for what they do have. Sometimes I help out the kids who I can tell really can't afford jack squat. I would never do that to some hooligan with 80 million bucks of RC stuff on the pit table.
I am not a kid anymore (arguably :p). I have a well paying job and am basically living out my childhood dreams. For years and years I was one of those kids who could not afford the expensive stuff. I did OK without it. But, today, I don't have that particular concern ... and some day hopefuly, neither will some of you !

[ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: jeepinator ]

[chance]

ATeam, jeepinator, and a couple others, outstanding. You guys hit the nail on the head.
In the last three races at my local track I've gone from 28 laps (back of the field) to 34 laps (run with the front of the field) just because the local hot shoe spent 12 minutes (2 tanks of fuel) teaching me to go faster by slowing down.
There was a little more to it but, basically thats it. I run a fairly stock rc10gt RTR.
I've learned that for most local racing, it's not the equipment, it's the driver.

[Bodido]

I just started racing stock trucks and took the budget route on my electrics. I bought 3 Dynamite 1700 packs, Dynamite Vision Peak charger, and a Duratrax Streak esc for a whoppin total of $150. I won the B-main my first time out, turning 18 laps. This past weekend I got 2nd in the A-main, turning 20 laps. I think it'll be a good while before a $130 esc and $60 batteries would be of any benefit. My driving is certainly still the limiting factor. When I start running a whole race without getting a turn marshall involved, I'll be looking at the good gear. :D

I was also thinking when I get me a buggy (hopefully a B-4 in the spring), I'll pick up a high end speed control for my truck. And move the Streak to the buggy, since added punch and efficiency won't be needed as much when I'm trying to learn to control one of those squirrely little buggers.

[SteveP]

You guys all have valid points and, notwithstanding Stern's attempt to stir the poop AGAIN, it's good information. Driving skill will beat a fat wallet any day. Yes, there's an incremental improvement in performance as you spend money, but the bang-for-the-buck ratio certainly favors the less expensive equipment and driving skill. Once you start getting into the high-end equipement, the return on your investment shrinks considerably.

[Interceptor]

10-4 brother, hope you do well in the academy and vest up afterwards. Good to see a fellow LEO on here.

[HowieStern]

i honestly wasn't trying to stir anything...

i beleive that if you don't have a ton of money, that you can race locally just fine and dandy with affordable gear... and you shouldn't feel forced into working a second job just to buy a C-2 or turbo 35.... you can have just as much fun with a Futaba ESC as you can with a C-2 (and can be just as competitive at the local level)

"others" believe that you need all the best equipment to get real enjoyment out of the sport...

i feel very sad for the "others"....

peace out.... :)

[Leet TC3]

Fair enough Howie, just as long as you don't mistake me (again ;)) as being one of the "others".

I too believe the #1 goal is to have fun. I too believe that for 99% of racers, it's more about the driving. The 1% is for that plateau you reach where you drive nearly perfectly every time.

BTW, I ain't there yet :D.

Diminishing returns aside, my post was simply to point out that, in many cases, money can be saved -in the long run- by spending a few extra dollars up front. Take it from someone who has boxes full of broken or useless parts because I tried to save a few bucks. Add up the dollar value of all that stuff in the box, and I could probably buy a few new FT TC3's. Thank God for Ebay. ;) ;)

[jeepinator]

For the record, I agree with the philosophy that the best things in life can't be bought ...
I have made MANY posts on here over the last few months basically stating that practice and skill will get you farther than equipment if racing/winning is your goal.
I rarely do any racing any more. Previously, for years, I raced twice and sometimes 3 times a week. So I know about how important skill is.
One of my main claims to fame at my local track was that most of my rides were bone stock. My B2 and later B3 had ZERO aftermarket parts (this was before the "factory team" kits). I did have a "project light" XXT though, but that was mostly a (very expensive) experiment. BTW, I got it significantly under legal wheight :)

This has been a great thread. I still agree with everyones point of view. Even that stern character :eek: :p But, I am NOT one of the "others" either.

[Jo_bomb17]

HowieStern, Do u like Howard Stern?

[Shaggy7754]

AMEN!! It's not about who's can you can kick, it's all about that little 3 lettered word we all know...FUN!!! Drivers that thrill on beating the **** out of others seem to have a shallow social life or a dad with a fat wallet. It's all about fun guys, nothing but fun.... :cool:

[bryceanator]

the best way for a beginer to get into rc is this look at the clasiifyed ads in the paper thats what i did i spent 360 canadian to get 3 sets of matched 2000s a sigma + charger a losi double x kinwald and beyond a hpi pro unused and tools and tons of other stuff 2 stock motors two cheap servos and a tempest pro speed control all for 360 bucks then i bought other stuff and heck i can beat most of the guys at my local track and beat my friends nitro buggy at the bmx track i spend what i would have on a a new triple x in canada with nothing just the car

[Big Wig]

I agree, it's all about the fun! AND, you can do great with cheap stuff if you're a great driver.

I may be known as a newbie on this board but 15 or so years ago I raced twice a week in a roller rink and once a week in the dirt. The roller rink was set up as either an oval or a single dogleg and it was intense. Most everyone ran the old RC10's and the speed they were acheiving was unreal! I raced 4wd and the competition wasn't as feirce so I made the A main a lot (I even won one!).

The point I'm trying to make is that in those days the only guys making the A main were the guys with thousands of dollars into it because you had to be very fast to even think about competing.

I remember my brother and his buddies would try a new place (race tracks were everywhere back then) and they'd come strolling in with 2, 2 wheel dollies each,... LOADED with toolboxes, car batteries, several cars,... bla bla bla. They would proceed to totally smoke all the local yokels so bad it was ridiculous. I'm not saying these guys weren't great drivers because my bro could whip me no matter what he's driving but their stuff was top of the line AND it was totally dialed in. The locals never took it too well ;)

If you're in it for fun (like me), you can have tons of fun on a budget but if you're racing to win,... and I mean win at any given track not just your local one, then top of the line is the only way to go.

I vote for fun myself :D

[ovalnator]

Like Jeepinator, I buy all the expensive stuff. Some people think Im crazy, but I have the money to buy the "good" stuff. Ive been racing 10 years, and I started off w/ an RC10 championship edition, a Futaba Magnum jr, 3 Trinity zip packs, and an Astroflight 115 charger. I won my first race, and was quickly finishing races that would have put me in the A in the expert class. :eek: This still holds true today. I see kids burning up the track w/ the"cheap" stuff. The point is you dont need what everyone else has. Heck, I bet Brian Kinwald could win the nationals w/ that new Duratrax truck. Its all about setup and driving skill. The best thing you can buy for your car or truck is tracktime. As the old saying goes, practice makes perfect.

[RustlerBoy]

That was awsome. I have spent so much money on this hobby. The only "Replacement" part that was to take place of my old gear was me Futaba 2PC and Novak Fuion and OP2K, other than that, it was all parts!

[ATeam]

Thanks Interceptor! A 20 week academy and 15 week FTO is gonna be tough, but the rewards will be endless. I am so excited about this. The department I going to work for is the only one I have ever wanted to work for. They pay well, plus after my FTO they give me a take home! Can't beat that with a big wooden stick.

Jeepinator, Chance, and Bodido, all of those were great responses. Well Said.

Keep Racing!

ATeam

[ATeam]

Oh yeah your was good to Steve. :D

ATeam

[HowieStern]

hehehhehee

btw Idaho.... check out the old dot squat board.... Les's fav (not RCA, but RCcarboard).... they have a new paying sponsor there...

imagine that.... Jase the D.Bag learns a lesson from the Sternmeister and PAYS for a banner instead of spamming...

i gotta pack myself on the back for that one.... i reformed a Spammer.... LOL....

peace out.... :)

[chucksolo]

Basically, get what you can afford. I personally can afford to feed my 6 RC cars, but you'll never see me looking down my nose at someone who can't afford the latest and greatest. I think if you come into the hobby at ANY level, then more power to you!!!

[IR]

Hey Howard,
Speaking of the devil...
Guess who made a brief (very brief) appearance on this board?
The admins on this board are good.
So sorry Buddy,
he didn't reform, just relocated!

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: IR ]

[ATeam]

SIX! Glad to hear you doing so well Chuck. :D Really, I hear you, if you can spring for the nice stuff then do it.

ATeam

[HowieStern]

i didn't see it at all IR... glad to hear Stevie P was fast on the delete button...LOL...

peace out... :)

[EMAXX3]

I have had fun reading this thread over my lunch break and just had to throw in my $0.02.

I started out with the great Emaxx as my first real R/C. I quickly became interested in racing and was low on money. I bought the T3 RTR truck everyone here seems to love. I began racing and had a lot of fun. I had the a real budget racer. However, I began to break down more frequently when I got better. Strange huh? I melted two of those LRP runner cheap esc's. This happened while leading the A-main both times. The ball cups would pop all the time, and not from hitting something hard. Cheap can be fun but could lead to a DNF.
I got a great contract job at the beginning of the summer and was able to buy the stuff I salivated over. I got the best stuff I could get, truck, esc, radio, all the tires I wanted the works. I had so much fun going to the track with my new gear. I was winning the novice A-main with my budget gear, I hadn't moved up to stock yet. I raced the novice class again with my new truck. I kinda felt bad with all my super high end stuff up on the stand with people running the stuff I used to have. I ended up turning the fastest laps I had ever run. The new gear was totally hooked up and just smoked all the stuff I had before.
I have been on both sides of the debate. I raced and won on a budget, and have raced and won on a huge budget. It all comes down to having fun. I wasn't having fun anymore with my cheap stuff and so I was lucky enough to be able to buy the best. I have sense moved up to the stock class where all the guys run real expensive stuff. I am learning to run with them and my driving sure is improving. The most important thing is to have fun. This is after all a HOBBY!!!
I hope all who want to race can, and those who are intimidated by the bug buck guys, don't worry, this is supposed to be fun.

BTW... there is nothing better than watching a big buck car get beaten by a Traxxas Rustler. Everyone in the pits, the stands, and even the announcer goes totally crazy when that happens, and believe me.... it does happen.

Happy Maxxin'
Emaxx3

[SmokeyNDBandit]

Just like anything in life, buy the best you can AFFORD and get the most enjoyment out of that. The time will come when you can eventually buy better stuff. Have fun everyone.

[HowieStern]

yo Ruslter Hustler... i do listen to the stern show when i can.... but i'm certainly not his biggest fan...

the nic came about from a now defunct board (EH) that seldomly had moderators... without any moderators, the only way to get rid of the trash (people that cursed, spammed, or posted ****** content) was to simply flame them out... that's when i adopted the Stern handle...

peace out.... :)

[IR]

Oh, come on Howard... You are probably the kindest, calmest, most caring person I have ever met on these boards! :rolleyes: