Novak Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motor

[PeterV]

http://209.2.68.15:8011/pics/novak_stock.jpg

Latest from www.teamnovak.com

Irvine, CA – July 5, 2006 – Team Novak has had many requests over the past year to come up with a brushless equivalent to a 27-turn stock brushed motor. After much field testing on dirt and asphalt, we have come up with a wind that gives nearly identical lap times as a stock brushed motor. The Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motor is the result of all this testing. It provides lap performance similar to a 27-turn racing stock brushed motor, but with the brushless advantage of minimal maintenance, long life and increased run-times — a definite plus for drivers who want to spend more time driving than wrenching.
Like all Novak brushless motors, the SS13.5 is sensor-based, providing excellent starting torque, low-speed drivability, and smooth acceleration. Other features of the SS13.5 Brushless Motor include a high-strength rotor and a larger, more rugged front bearing for extra durability and extended life (same bearing used in Novak’s Velociti-series motors). It also features direct-solder wiring tabs for easy wire replacement, and thermal protection to allow pack after pack to be run without fear of damaging the motor, battery, or speed control.
The SS13.5 motor is compatible with the Novak Super Sport Plus ESC (#1705) and the Novak GTB ESC (#1710), accepting 4-6 cells input voltage. The SS13.5 motor used with either ESC is an ideal setup for stock-class racers, or beginning drivers that are looking for slower speeds and longer run times.
The SS13.5 Stock Racing Brushless Motor (#3413) is scheduled to ship August 2006. List price: $129.00

SS13.5 STOCK MOTOR FEATURES
• Specifically designed for drivers who race Stock, or who simply want longer run times
• Comparable to a 27-turn racing stock brushed motor
• Sensor-based technology for excellent low-speed drivability
• High-strength rotor for incredible performance
• Oversized front bearing for extra durability and extended life (also used in Velociti-series motors)
• Minimal Maintenance
• Thermal Overload protection
• Low cogging
• Direct-Solder Wiring Tabs for flexible soldering options
• Designed and hand-wound by Novak in the USA
SS13.5 STOCK MOTOR SPECIFICATIONS
• Number of Turns: 13.5
• Design: Sensor-based
• Input Voltage: 4-6 cells (1.2V/cell)
• Size: 2.08”L x 1.41”D (52.8 x 35.8mm)
• Shaft Diameter: 0.125” (3.2 mm) [accepts all existing pinion gears]
• Bearing: Oversized (3/8” x 1/2”)
• Weight: 6.4 oz. (181 grams)
• Magnet: One-piece, multi-pole cylindrical high-strength neodymium

[chilly4kc]

I wonder how long before this is ROAR legal? Or maybe they will always run BL and Brushed stock motors seperate??

[Mini-TBasher55]

It's pretty cool how they have an entire line of brushless motors that have different turns. Brushless motors are really taking over, especially since this one is the same as 27 turn stock motors.

[ElectricThunder]

Brushless motors are really taking over...
This is true! Orion has a system in development right now as well. Hacker is going to release at least a motor. LRP/Reedy have their stuff. Novak has their stuff. I just wish ROAR didn't limit the rotor size, along with some other rules I don't care for.:(

[Sherminator]

thank god theyer takeing over! im so sick of cutting comms and playing with brushes.... now with brushless i can focus more on my cars setup!!!!!!!

[ErikRC10]

This is true! Orion has a system in development right now as well. Hacker is going to release at least a motor. LRP/Reedy have their stuff. Novak has their stuff. I just wish ROAR didn't limit the rotor size, along with some other rules I don't care for.:(

ORION IS MAKING A BRUSHLESS!!??? Thank god I have been waiting for them to make one for ever. I will deffinetly be the first in line to buy one. this might be a thread (orion coming out with brushless) but I have been gone for the last 3 weeks and this was the first thread that I came to.

I was also wondering if it will become ROAR legal. I don't race stock but it's good to finally see an actual stock evuivelant (I am have real trouble with spelling today...) brushless motor.

[ElectricThunder]

ORION IS MAKING A BRUSHLESS!!??? Thank god I have been waiting for them to make one for ever. I will deffinetly be the first in line to buy one. this might be a thread (orion coming out with brushless) but I have been gone for the last 3 weeks and this was the first thread that I came to.

I was also wondering if it will become ROAR legal. I don't race stock but it's good to finally see an actual stock evuivelant (I am have real trouble with spelling today...) brushless motor.
It looks like it's ROAR legal (I think they're shooting for it to be IFMAR legal too or something). Winds will be 4.5, 5.5, and 6.5 from what I've read. Go check in the brushless motor forum. Someone posted a thread about it, with links to a picture of it in a TC, and also a writeup on it.

[ErikRC10]

I wasn't worried about orion's system being ROAR legal I know anything like that they would make would of course be ROAR legal to compete with Novak and Reedy/LRP. I just read the article on it. I really can't wait until it comes out. I dunno about there esc though that would be a new step for them. In sensor bl atleast because they have a unsensored system for airplanes. I was talking about the 13.5 motor though if it was gonna be ROAR legal.

[ElectricThunder]

I wasn't worried about orion's system being ROAR legal I know anything like that they would make would of course be ROAR legal to compete with Novak and Reedy/LRP. I just read the article on it. I really can't wait until it comes out. I dunno about there esc though that would be a new step for them. In sensor bl atleast because they have a unsensored system for airplanes. I was talking about the 13.5 motor though if it was gonna be ROAR legal.
The 13.5 is ROAR legal as far as design specs go. If they'll let you run with the stock class....that's a different story.

[Aluma]

yup..."stock" brushless/lipo combo people will be deadly on the track in stock classes...well, you know, given that they can actually drive well.

[fanke19]

The 13.5 is ROAR legal as far as design specs go. If they'll let you run with the stock class....that's a different story.I can't wait to find out when and if ROAR ok's it for use in the stock class. We have a couple local tracks, and they're waiting to announce the legality of using this setup in their stock classes until ROAR makes the final word. If ROAR approves it's use in stock classes, I'll probably get two systems, one for my TC4 for the on-road track, and one for the T4 for the off-road track. :)

[Laterilus]

So if this motor is very comparable to a stock motor, what motor does Novak make that would be comparable to a 19T motor? 4300? 5800? My particular club likes to run 19T classes and I was trying to find a motor that would match up with a brushed 19T motor.

[chilly4kc]

I've heard that the 4300 is compariable to a brushed 19t motor.

[skylineTT]

and the 5800 is comparable to a 10T brushed motor.

[billmck]

and the 5800 is comparable to a 10T brushed motor.


the 5800 is more like a 13-15 turn, but, the gtb 6.5 is like a 10 turn.
just thought you should know...


bill

[skylineTT]

really i thought it was different. thanks for the info!

[SS Pede]

really i thought it was different. thanks for the info!
A few years ago the SS5800 was roughly equivalent to a 10T brushed motor. Brushed motors have just gotten faster between then and now. Still, I think 15T equivalent isn't giving the SS5800 enough credit. :D

[billmck]

A few years ago the SS5800 was roughly equivalent to a 10T brushed motor. Brushed motors have just gotten faster between then and now. Still, I think 15T equivalent isn't giving the SS5800 enough credit. :D

just to clairfy here; when i say 15 turn, i'm talking motors like checkpoint!! not any of the low end stuff... i'm running i little of everything over here and have switched up to lipo in the past months. so.. ya i stick by my observations... just my .02


bill

[SS Pede]

Well I guess I have not run any good brushed motors...too expensive and not enough run time! I guess I will trust you though, those Checkpoints sound like they're pretty fast! :)

[ElectricThunder]

My p-94 12x2 was about the same as my 5800 in my T3 when both were geared properly. That "test" was a while ago though. And I was running garbagey 1500 packs.

[billmck]

My p-94 12x2 was about the same as my 5800 in my T3 when both were geared properly. That "test" was a while ago though. And I was running garbagey 1500 packs.

no offence here, but personally, i don't think that you compare anything using 1500 packs for testing and walk away with solid results. my .02

bill

[stormperson]

Even at the 2004 paved nats when Novak ran a brushless expo class the 5800 consistantly ran slower lap times than 19t, and with new motors such as the Komodo Dragon I am sure the gap has widened...

[SS Pede]

Yes, well race tracks seem to be the great equalizer for motors. Just because the SS5800 is technically faster than a 19T doesn't mean it can beat it every time on the track. Anyways it's still fast enough for me. :) I do wonder though, with this 13.5 motor, will brushed stock motors still have an advantage because they could be tuned to be at top performance? The Novak won't need much maintenance to speak of, but it seems that the next little advance in stock motors will mean the 13.5 is slightly slower than stock. Then again, like the 19T vs. 5800 example, maybe they'll stay close enough in performance that it will really come down to the driver.

[metalry101]

Honestly, it doesn't really matter how fast or slow it is. It's got bearings, which makes it illegal for stock racing.

[ElectricThunder]

no offence here, but personally, i don't think that you compare anything using 1500 packs for testing and walk away with solid results. my .02

bill
This is true, that's why I mentioned batteries that were used. Either way, with the same battery and truck, they came out to be roughly the same "back in the day". Off road, it's probably closest to a good 13 turn or ok 12 turn maybe. On road, it's probably more comparable to a 15 turn. Batteries make a huge difference here too. But I do agree with you. Just threw it out for the heck of it. Though comparing brushed to brushless is pointless. Two different technologies and two different power bandsl; it's just apples and oranges.

That's all besides the point though. Metalry brought up a good point about bearings. Maybe ROAR will start a brushless stock class, or modify stock rules to allow bearings. :eek:

[billmck]

.

That's all besides the point though. Metalry brought up a good point about bearings. Maybe ROAR will start a brushless stock class, or modify stock rules to allow bearings. :eek:


now, that would be the best thing that happened to stock racing...


bill

[schenck77]

bill,
if we end up running stock class indoors I think this will be the motor for us. also according to the listing it already has the bigger bearing that are used in the velocity motors so we shouldn't to worry about replacing bearings either like the 5800 always had to. also I will see you tomorrow at the track. hopefully i will be up in time to race......

[khyron]

That's all besides the point though. Metalry brought up a good point about bearings. Maybe ROAR will start a brushless stock class, or modify stock rules to allow bearings. :eek:

ROAR and anyone else who think current "stock" rules are remotely "stock" need a serious reality check. At least in the full size world they make up words like NASCAR so that the word "stock" isn't as insulting to intellect.

Yes, there was once a concept of stock racing in R/C, but that was a long time ago folks. Today's competitive stock racer not only opens up his motor and completely rebuilds it whenever he likes (maybe every run) but also has a lathe, brush cutter, and hell maybe even some wacky motor dip or freezer in his pit setup. Why? Because, I repeat, there is no "stock" in present day "stock" racing. In fact it almost has more voodoo than modified, ever since it got so easy to go faster than anyone actually needs to in modified...

Personally I think it's hilarious that anyone who opens their endbell thinks that somehow bushings magically make their motor "stock" in some way. Please!

Stock isn't supposed to be "modified with higher winds and a tad bit more friction."

Stock is supposed to mean NOT MODIFIED. :p

[ElectricThunder]

ROAR and anyone else who think current "stock" rules are remotely "stock" need a serious reality check. At least in the full size world they make up words like NASCAR so that the word "stock" isn't as insulting to intellect.

Yes, there was once a concept of stock racing in R/C, but that was a long time ago folks. Today's competitive stock racer not only opens up his motor and completely rebuilds it whenever he likes (maybe every run) but also has a lathe, brush cutter, and hell maybe even some wacky motor dip or freezer in his pit setup. Why? Because, I repeat, there is no "stock" in present day "stock" racing. In fact it almost has more voodoo than modified, ever since it got so easy to go faster than anyone actually needs to in modified...

Personally I think it's hilarious that anyone who opens their endbell thinks that somehow bushings magically make their motor "stock" in some way. Please!

Stock isn't supposed to be "modified with higher winds and a tad bit more friction."

Stock is supposed to mean NOT MODIFIED. :p
Mmmmmmk.... What would you consider a "stock motor" then? A mabuchi 36 turn? :confused:

[billmck]

khyron - you're 100% right. there is no way the average joe can just by a stock motor and be anywhere close to those who mod everything within the motor; bushings, cut brushes, slotted endbells, etc. i think this will be a good move for stock racing, and even out the playing field, and give the 'average joe' some hope...


bill

[fuzzychickens]

khyron - you're 100% right. there is no way the average joe can just by a stock motor and be anywhere close to those who mod everything within the motor; bushings, cut brushes, slotted endbells, etc. i think this will be a good move for stock racing, and even out the playing field, and give the 'average joe' some hope...


bill

Damn straight, using brushless in stock would be a hell of a lot more "stock" than the current bs going on with brushed motors.

[khyron]

Mmmmmmk.... What would you consider a "stock motor" then? A mabuchi 36 turn? :confused:

Sorry if I didn't make my point clearly. I was trying to say that stock isn't merely about winds or bushings, it's about not drastically altering the motor from the state of performance it's in when you get it.

Whether it's 36 turn or 24 turn or whatever, there was a time when there was a lot less BS involved. You got a stock motor, you put it in your car and you ran. Once in a while you took it out, sprayed it clean (with the endbell sealed on by tamper-evident tabs), you oiled the bushings, and maybe you cleaned the brushes or stuck a "comm stick" into the hoods and cleaned that up. Then you put it back in and ran. Maintaining a stock motor took maybe 5 minutes tops and cost almost nothing and if you'd taken five random guys from the class and put their motors on a dyno I bet the results would have been pretty close to identical. IMHO, that's "stock" racing.

[khyron]

khyron - you're 100% right. there is no way the average joe can just by a stock motor and be anywhere close to those who mod everything within the motor; bushings, cut brushes, slotted endbells, etc. i think this will be a good move for stock racing, and even out the playing field, and give the 'average joe' some hope...

...and more to the point, it's not just about giving average joe "hope" of winning, it's not always just about winning, but more importanly it would lower the "barrier of entry" to newcomers and drastically reduce the complexity of the whole initial investment and "stuff" to learn to get into the hobby effectively! Folks need to remember that's more important than anything else.

No matter what you're doing in R/C racing, no matter how much you're winning, if you're not doing what you can to promote the hobby and encourage the next generation of racers, you're not a success, you're a shortsighted failure, and a selfish one at that.

All the best racers I know, including some guys who are very oldschool and love their old battery and motor technology, I respect them not just for their history and knowledge but because they are all awesome gents and totally committed to keeping the hobby going and helping out new folks. That's what makes you a real champion in this hobby I think.

[ElectricThunder]

Sorry if I didn't make my point clearly. I was trying to say that stock isn't merely about winds or bushings, it's about not drastically altering the motor from the state of performance it's in when you get it.

Whether it's 36 turn or 24 turn or whatever, there was a time when there was a lot less BS involved. You got a stock motor, you put it in your car and you ran. Once in a while you took it out, sprayed it clean (with the endbell sealed on by tamper-evident tabs), you oiled the bushings, and maybe you cleaned the brushes or stuck a "comm stick" into the hoods and cleaned that up. Then you put it back in and ran. Maintaining a stock motor took maybe 5 minutes tops and cost almost nothing and if you'd taken five random guys from the class and put their motors on a dyno I bet the results would have been pretty close to identical. IMHO, that's "stock" racing.
Yes, I totally agree with you and get what you're saying now.

Brushless motors aren't too easy to tamper with. You can't cut anything down, they come with bearings already....there's really nothing else to do except advance the timing by moving the hall sensors more some. Even then, you'll probably end up breaking something.:D

[schenck77]

bill,
just ordered one for me and one for dan so I should see how they are soon.

[diesel dan]

brushless racing league runs a class for the 13.5, i personally think that the 13.5 wilbe a huge class

[rojna-pl]

ORION IS MAKING A BRUSHLESS!!???
the orion brushless esc looks just like the GM esc which is available in europe for some time now, the only difference is that the orion is in a black case while the GM is purple :rolleyes:
http://www.rojna.pl/galerie/508403aae847515a8f0dac950a043a3e23139.jpg

[chilly4kc]

I ran this motor at out local club races for 2 weeks and the first week I run. I ran this in a T4 geared at 77/21 and after 5 minutes the motor is cool tp the touch. The first week I can in first and the 2nd I came in 3rd.

But we just had our Trophy race this weekend, and a lot of the big stock races from around the area and even other states came in. Their brushed motors were clarly faster. And I agree the next line of stock motors will be faster, and eventually this motor will be too slow.

[schenck77]

Their brushed motors were clarly faster. And I agree the next line of stock motors will be faster, and eventually this motor will be too slow.

Thats odd, I ran mine in stock class and had more power then ever one else. The top end wasn't much different, but I had way more torque and was able to clear jumps with truck that the stock buggies couldn't.

[chilly4kc]

Thats odd, I ran mine in stock class and had more power then ever one else. The top end wasn't much different, but I had way more torque and was able to clear jumps with truck that the stock buggies couldn't.

That is true for me too, but we have a nice 75ft straight and I was clearly slower than the C027s and Epic X motors. Before the trophy race, the old track layout had more tight turns and that made me competitive.

[schenck77]

I was using a lipo pack so that might be why mine was faster then theres. I know one had the epic x, not sure what the others were using. I guess if you still need more power you could use the new nickel rotor, and gear up even more. I tried it but figured some might complain since I was already faster with the regular rotor.
So now the sintered one is in my 5800 and I am really liking that for a mild mod. I really dont need anymore since I race on an indoor track that is 75ft by 30ft.

[chilly4kc]

I should try gearing it differently too. I have a Lipo and have ran it with a brushed stock motor and it made a hugh difference. But the track won't let me run Lipo with stock motors, but you run 4200s.

I'm just happy they let me run the bl motor with stock since it isn't ROAR legal yet. :D

[schenck77]

the lipo was probably the difference then. I ran a 23/84 in the mf2 with the upgraded rotor. with the stock rotor I ran a 20tooth pinion.