best 3 channel beginner electric rtf?

[michaelh4670]

just getting opinions from you who know, i live at 5500 feet and want an electric 3 channel that i can take off with (if possible) and one i can grow with. have had the v-tail red hawk for 6 mos. now and looking for something a little more capable. i'd like to keep the total cost at $150. thanks for any ideas!

[Leo L]

When you say that you have had the Red Hawk for 6 months, I presume you mean that you are comfortable flying it and are ready for something more challenging. Siince you indicate that you want an RTF, I suggest that you consider the ParkZone Cub or the soon to be released HobbyZone Cub. Since the HobbyZone Cub has not been sold yet, the only comments can be made based on the manufacturer's claims. However, it appears to be a well thought out plane that resolves many of the problems that people have had with the PZ Cub. If you decide to wait for the HZ Cub, the only advice that I can give is to stay away from ACT. Its been a troublesome system on the Firebird planes and will probably be no better on the Cub.

If you decide to go with the PZ Cub, there are some very simple and basic alterations that I can detail that make it a very enjoyable plane. I went from the Aerobird Challenger, which is very similar to your Red hawk, to the Cub last fall and continue to fly the Cub regularly as my favorite plane. The only thing you would need right away is the High Pitch Prop. It specifically designed to be used by the Cub and Decathlon in high altitude applications.

[michaelh4670]

if so, that looks like a great idea- is there any video around of it yet that you know of?

[Leo L]

One of the threads on either RCUniverse or RCGroups made mention of a video, but I haven't been able to find it. If I do, I'll let you know.

[Sympster]

Don't give up on the Red Hawk. It can be moded to have a little more spirit. Check out my post on this another forum.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7530


Sympster

[michaelh4670]

I watched your video and saw your modsd to the red hawk. I never would have beleived you can geta loop out of her!! I am going to make those changes to the rear as soon as possible. I did have a few questions though...
where did you place the mod 'raised arm' assembly? (I can see from the pics and geta good idea but any measurements you have to share would be great!)
After the mod, do you still set the trim level to stock (where the control surface is level with the rest of the rear v)?
are the plastic screws available at most hobby shops ( i'm pretty new to this stuff)
and anything else you can think of to help me pull off your mod would be greatly appreciated.

cant wait to get up again, thanks for the support!

mike

[Sympster]

michaelh4670,

The guides are just #6 x 1" long Nylon machine screws. I sanded the tops flat and glued the small nylon spacer on top. Really anything can work as a guide, as long as its has a small hole through it. I prefer nylon because it's light, and treaded pieces because I can adjust the height. You can probably get this stuff at your local hardware store. I had it laying around the shop at work. One thing to make sure of is that the little fishing line spools are snug. I had one strip out on me and I replace both of the screws with longer ones. If one of those unwound in flight, it would be all over.

I set the guides about 3/4" high at 3/8" from the leading edge. They are inline with the fishing line. The flaps are set about 1/16" low from lever. This plane really wants to climb. I just set the elevator trim all the back on take off and push it all the way forward when I'm flying. I have been flying at full throttle with this mod. You have to keep the elevator stick forward not to climb. You have to steer alot more, but you fly fast.

A more extreme mod has been done before to a simular plane. You can check it out here:

Link (http://www.hobbyzone.com/modifications_hbz_xtreme_pro_tail.html)

They have video available if you look around on that website. Looks pretty hard to control. I will probably buy a new tail section just to try it out after I get bored again.

I don't think you can screw it up too bad. When you are finished, try out your flap movements (not in the air) in every direction with the the most trim in both directions to make sure nothing moves too far. Also remember to always check your cg after a mod.

Good luck and let me know how it turns out for you.


Sympster

[aeajr]

MORE ADVANCED PLANES -
After you master a starter plane, what should you go to next. That is all
according to where your interests lie. There are 4 channel aileron planes,
3 channel aerobatics planes. Which you choose is up to you.

Definately continue to grow on the Red Hawk, but these might be good next steps. If you decide you are REALLY committed and ready to move up to a hobby grade radio and ARFS or Kits, let us know.


THREE CHANNEL ELEVATOR/AILERON OR ELEVON PLANES
These planes introduce ailerons but do it on a 3 channel design without a
rudder. They typically have throttle/aileron/elevator control, or they have
elevons which combine the function of ailerons and the elevator into one
surface. They are quite aerobatic with the limitation that having no rudder
they can not perform rudder guided or enhanced maneuvers. Knife edges, for
example, make extensive use of the rudder. There are a few RTF packages
here.

These are a lot of fun!

F27-Stryker or Stryker B - RTF - $170
Don't get the Stryker C - That is a very hot plane!
Fun Keep-in-the-car plane
Just pop off the tail fins and it goes back in the box!!!!!
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=PKZ1200
Discussion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233
Video
http://rc-galaxy.com/Video/F-27_Stryker_Richard_Harris_7-9-04.wmv
http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/Parkzone_F027_Stryker_240x180_nb.wmv
http://www.break.com/index/planenuts9.html
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=392


Multiplex Space Scooter - RTF
A more up to date version of the Sky Scooter Pro above
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV5&P=7
ARF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZV4&P=7
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=548
Video
http://www.bungymania.com/videos/films/spacescooter/spacescooter_sun_stunt.wmv
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/548/SpaceScooter.wmv
Brushless - 2 cell Lipo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MnPuV8Zlhc


FOUR CHANNEL AILERON TRAINERS
These planes introduce the full set of flight controls consisting of
ailerons/elevator/rudder/throttle. They are a logical next step for the
pilot who wants to take their flying skills to full 4 channel control. All
of these planes can perform aerobatics, but are primarily designed as
4 channel trainers with high wing designs . This makes them easier
to fly but less aerobatic than the mid or low wing planes.


BeginAir - RTF or Receiver ready
RTF - $180 Receiver Ready - $110
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/begin-air.html
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=443
video
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazine/reviews/443/BeginAir.wmv
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445663

Cesna 182 - 4 Channel RTF - $180
http://www.ewebcart.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?merchant=3210&add=1&item_id=144
Includes 72 MHz radio and wall charger.
Sku# 4303 $179.99 4 Channel with 72 MHz Radio
(Intermediate Level Recommended)
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/cessna_long_movie.html

[michaelh4670]

Thx! great advice!!
just got the stryker (b!) and it is a blast!! had a tough time for the first 2 trys. now i have it under control ;) and have had many runs- long enough to just make tons of lazy 8's and then the comfortable 'final' approach and then throttle off for landing... definitely a different beast from the red hawk. the speed is awesome and it really seems responsive to me- still flying the red hawk too- between stryker runs. Still waiting for some more confidence to take it to the high rate to make some more acrobatic stuff happen but wow, what fun. it has teached me to intro a turn with right (left) and then pull back to execute the turn w/o losing as much altitude. new tricks are good- now i'm jealous of the 4 channel guys that can pull off the knife edge stuff.
thx for the good advice! :cool:

[aeajr]

Great news that you are enjoying the Stryker.

Yes, keep flying the red Hawk! You will always enjoy it for fun, relaxed flying. Also, learn to thermal it. It should do well in thermals.

It will also be a great plane for teaching friends! I hope you got them on different channels so both can be flown at the same time. :)

Keep us informed of your progress.

[michaelh4670]

hey everyone, just thought i'd post some info on the red hawk. it seems that the weak link in it is the crystal in the Rx. The hobby shop I frequent has seen a bunch of these come in w/ intermitent full control loss after a few hard landings. the good news- the rest of the design seems really resilient/repairable and the crystals are cheap. That said I still fly it alot and have tried some of the mods listed above and elswhere. Still no loops though. For $70 all said ('cept the 8 AA's) I love this thing. Anyone in Denver or abouts is welcome to come out and see it in action. There is a growing # of folks buying them and all reports I get are positive.

fly it, bust it, fix it, etc...

Happy flying!

[aeajr]

Thanks for the update. I was wondering if the Red Hawk was any good. It looks so much like an Aerobird Challenger, but it sounds like it is not as responsive as the Challenger.

I am teaching my nephew on the Sky Fly. Also flies well but I can't get it to loop no matter what I do with it.

These low cost RTF planes are a great way so get started!

[michaelh4670]

that looks great! I would bet that they are really more respnsove compared wit the 'hawk! the control surfaces are bigge and the expert mode looks cool. I kinda wish I'd seen that one b-4 the red hawk.
(video @: http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/hcaa1960-1961-deluxe.mpg)

fyi- by 'hard landing' I meant going straight into the ground at full throttle from 15 meters.... :eek:

[aeajr]

The Sky Fly is not very aerobatic at all. In fact, in stock set-up it is almost impossible to get it to loop. Even with a few changes I made, looping is not very easy.

Since I fly from a grass field, I remove the landing gear which makes the plane lighter and more responsive, but still won't loop without changing the routing of the control lines.

[aeajr]

that looks great! I would bet that they are really more respnsove compared wit the 'hawk! the control surfaces are bigge and the expert mode looks cool. I kinda wish I'd seen that one b-4 the red hawk.
(video @: http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/hcaa1960-1961-deluxe.mpg)

fyi- by 'hard landing' I meant going straight into the ground at full throttle from 15 meters.... :eek:

See if any of these make the plane more responsive. Ignore the notes on pro mode.

The photos illustrate #5 below.

MAKING THE AEROBIRD MORE RESPONSIVE
by Ed Anderson

How you have your Aerobird Challenger or Aerobird Xtreme set-up will determine how it behaves. Also, the speed at which you are flying and the position of the throttle will impact the way the
plane behaves. And finally the wind strength and direction relative to the
plane will either enhanced or resist the turning of the plane. You have to
become aware of all of these things as you fly your Aerobird.

From the factory the Aerobird it is set for very mild behavior because new
pilots tend to over control the plane. You can make the plane more responsive in several ways.

1) In any mode, if you are flying at reduced throttle and want to make an
aggressive turn, boost the throttle for a moment as you give the rudder input. The greater flow of air over the tail will make the plane turn faster. A brief burst is all it takes.

2) If you have an Aerobird Challenger, start the plane up in pro mode. In
sport when you give a rudder command, one surface moves. In pro mode, two surfaces move in coordination giving you twice as much surface area to turn the plane.

The control surfaces on the Aerobird are called ruddervators because they
provide both rudder and elevator controls. By increasing the size of the
ruddervator surface, or the length of the movement, the throw, of the surface we can make the plane more responsive.

3) Another way to get more surface movement is to move the control lines
closer to the hole closes to the tail surface. This results in larger surface
movement when you
move the stick. This is called increasing the surface throw. You should do
this and get used to it before you do anything that follows.

4) You can tape something very light but stiff to the control surface to make
it longer. A piece of a business card works well. tape it so that part of
the card extends rearward from the moveable surface. Try it with just a 1/2
inch and see the difference. You can use tape or glue or both. Make sure it
is flat and perfectly aligned with the control surface or it will throw off
your straight flight performance.

5) I taped across the move able part to the outer stationary part of the tail.
Then you cut to the side of the moveable part of the tail and trim away the
excess tape. Leave the tape on the outer stationary part as it is weakened by having part of it cut away. This makes the control surface wider.

6) You can combine 3 and 4 of course.

7) Lastly, you can drill a new hole in the control horn closer to the surface.
Again, this will give you more throw. However I would caution this one as I
believe it puts some real strain on the servos. I have heard of people burning
out the servos this way.

So, do them one at a time.

The first two are easy and require no modifications to the plane. The third
is outlined in the manual. The next three change the tail. The last one
should only be done if you are willing to risk the electronics. While making
the tail wider and longer also put more stress on the servos, putting a new
hole lower seems to really stress them. Doing 6 and 7 will give you maximum
effect will almost surely burn out the servos.

If you are totally new to flying, you might find this valuable in your training.

Six Keys to Success
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18