Club Problems - Bashers vs Racers

[Ninja Viper]

I hear others have dealt with similar problems. We have a large rift that has happened and we have split into two groups. It would appear that the bashers feel like they are looked down upon by the racers, there are comments by the racers about lack of direction and organization.
I am on neither side, but I really do not want to see this division. I know we could be a much better voice for the RC community united. Any thoughts?

[twism86]

Hey, i may experiance a problem soon, but i hope not. Ive been w/ R/C for like 5 years. Ive only bashed but have many cars (electric and nitro) and know what im doing for the most part i guess. Im going to start racing on-road electric touring cars this year in the stock class. I really dont know how its going to be once i mix w/ and these guys that take racing really seriously and know alot. I trust it will be fine because those people who love the hobby are more than willing to help and are considerate of others who share a R/C interest. Thats how i feel. People who look down on bashers or the inexperianced are simply pathetic, if you love r/c you should respect others that do aswell, thats all. I know some bashers are kinda arogant and for lack of a better word annoying but if the "racers" wont give time to help or just respect them they have no right to think they are better and more over should GET OUT of the hobby. They were all once just bashers and begginers, and we all love just bashing around. There should only be one group, r/c lovers, thats how i feel. Its like me and fishing, biking or any other hobby, you help and respect the people who share a common interest, if i see a little kid or someone having trouble w/ fishing gear ill help em out, and thats how our sport should be. I may be stressing this alittle but i feel strongly about this because there is no reason to look down on others just trying to have fun. Ive only found and given help in the hobby, and for "racers" and "bashers" we are all just equal people who love r/c, nothing more.

-Tom

[desfjr1300]

Hard to comment on this without a little more information. Have the "racers" done or said something to make the "bashers" feel that way? When you say lack of direction or organization are you implying the bashers have disrupted a race or some other event? Has there been an argument over something specific?

[Giant655]

There is a degree of "less precision" when it comes to bashers. I work at a hobby shop so I speak from my view only ( and I race so I am double biased unfortunately). Do not get me wrong, there are racers out there who are just as scary to watch drive than bashers also, but you learn how to drive much better when you are confined to 8-12' lanes rather than free roam. When people come in to me to have their car serviced ( I am the "NITRO TECH" FEAR ME!!!!) the bashers are coming in with far severe problems versus the racers. For instance, with the racers I might have to repair a clutch, because a bearing went out during a qualifier, or they couldnt figure out how to tune their WS7 3X in their jammin X1. Versus I have to put new chassis plates on a savage because 2 guys were drag racing down the street and one of them hit a pole/fire hydrant/stop sign/whatever. SO from my viewpoint the bashers are sort of the "begginer" crowd if you will, racing refines your driving style and teaches you much more than you would ever learn tooling around in your yard. Having said all that, let the flames lap my post up one side and down the other!

[adrianderekluna]

can't avoid it. just don't get so serious to be one of those jerks out there and you'll be fine. every track has the crazy's. just how it is.

[nicholcgn]

Well it is not an easy problem to fix. Most if it will start with the people running the races. They need to explain problems they see and how to fix it. Such as guys if you are going into the turn you have to hold your line in the turn. Usually this fixes the driving issues over time. It may go so far as the announcer calling an rc for a stop and go if they consistently do it.
This usually effect those that have not raced before but there are some "racers" that could use this. Seen a guy called for a stop and go due to a language offense in the pits. Though I was going to pee my pants when the guy called it in the qualifier.

Now the harder problem is fixing the racer mentality. Basically you and others that want this fix need to address these comments when they happen. Return comments like "yea but we were all learning to race at one point I can remember when I terrorized the seasoned racers". If you are accepted by the racer crowd and you are willing to "remind" people of where they came from nicely some of them will lighten up. You have to get the race guys to understand this is a hobby and they are just getting experience in traffic. Everyone is not a great racer. But everyone can have fun.

You may even recommend if they see something they could help the "bashers" with then they go over and help them. You have to remember the more people on the track the more fun it is in the long run. Hell you may have to even tell a hard core guy to lighten up. I have had to. He still doesn't talk to me but he isn't making cracks about the less track experienced racers.

Bottom line - If they are coming to the track and running a race they are now a racer. They may be bad at it or not take it as serious but if you and others take steps to ease the tension from the jerks it will work. Some bashers do not drive near as bad as people think. They just are used to a basher type of racing where "rubbin is racing" and their rubbs break parts and they laugh about it.

[NotWalkinBlind]

...look at it as inexperienced racers and experienced racers. The racers shouldn't be making derogatory comments toward the inexperienced ones... they should be helping them and giving them tips on how to drive better.

When our local club was still going, we had a novice class. It worked great. You didn't move out of the novice class until you had won several mains and had demonstrated the ability to drive cleanly.

This was 1/12th electric pan cars and we raced on a strip mall parking lot, but it would work for any type of racing.

None of the new guys wanted to be in heats with the experienced racers, because 1) they knew their skills weren't up to competing on that level, 2) they didn't want to damage any of the experienced guys' equipment with their erratic driving. Of course, the experienced guys where very happy about not having to run with the newbies, too... for the same (no. 2) reason.

Try it. If you have novices that don't want to run in a class called "novice" because they think they're better than that, let them prove they're better.

If they're too big on themselves and refuse, they can go home and sulk, but they shouldn't be allowed on the track with experienced racers until they've proven they can control their vehicles.

Good grief, they don't put brand new inexperienced drivers on the same track with experienced pros in fullsize racing... and you shouldn't do it in R/C, either.

BTW, rubbin' ain't racin'. The best racers drive as cleanly as possible... rubbin' during a race only leads to an increased probability of equipment damage, and that's nothing to laugh about. Do that when you're bashing with friends... laugh about it there... the race track is not the place for it.

[rocknbil]

...It would appear that the bashers feel like they are looked down upon by the racers, there are comments by the racers about lack of direction and organization....

You need to have everyone hold hands and sing "koom-bay-ya" before each gathering.

:D

Seriously though, that will do as much good, people have their own internal concepts of what is fun and what is "the right way" and no one will ever agree. It's called "committee" and there's no way to fully resolve it.

[nicholcgn]

Rubbin aint racing - Bull it is too. Look at many forms of racing. Offroad truck racing circuits they rub all of the time. To say you should not rub means you are not pushing limits in some types of racing.

Now rubbing every corner until you take someone out - That is not very smart racing. Just because you do not think rubbin aint racing does not mean other people don't believe so. So the issue is getting everyone to come to a level that works for all.

Personally I want someone to take a reasonable chance at running with me. We will come together some time or another. That is rubbin and that is racing. Some Bashers just think every corner should be that way. That is just a way to break a part. But if a guy is truly running with me and trying to run a clean line and we rub and I break, I can laugh after it and shake the guys had saying good racing. Many "racers" at the track think this is unacceptable.

It is a matter of semantics and definitions. Educate all involved so you can have a peaceful atmosphere.

[JDT]

It just seems some people want to cry about $95 paint jobs and carbon fibre this or that getting scratched or broke because they were too slow and got hit, my local dirt track has a wall of death planter box I have been pushed into it, and I have washed out and pushed other people into it, the tighter the track the more chance of rubbing, I guess the main point is if you are scared someone may hit your car don't go on raceday go to the track on tuesday at 9:45 am and pretend you are leading a race, as for me I prepare the car and go try to race, I may not get to race due to low attendance in 4wd buggy, but if I do I will not cry if I get hit and I will not quit going if someone hits me, its a racing thing, if you want to be nealry certain you will not get hit take up drag racing, every form of motorsports has crashes, the best driver in the world has crashed before,( ie Senna, it killed him!) and I assure you even the rc masters like Ryan C have crashed before, if Ryan reads this board and wants to dispute this I will stand corrected of course.

[NotWalkinBlind]

nichol, I wasn't trying to say that there should never be a rub here and there... if you'll double check my post, you'll see "The best racers drive as cleanly as possible."

I stand by that. It's not all about agressiveness... smooth, clean driving wins more races.

You should be able to see that I'm agreeing with your "Some Bashers just think every corner should be that way."

I also stand by the idea of a novice class being a good way to solve the local dischord that NinjaViper mentioned.

[Giant655]

I agree with walkin 100% if you are fighting for position a little bit is to be expected, But what separates bashers from racers is TRACK ETIQUETTE!!!!!
if someone faster than me is coming through I will move over for him. If I spin out, and there is a pack behind me, I wont just veer into traffic to try and regain my position, I will wait till the last car has passed, then turn around and try and fight my way through the pack. Some politeness whileon the track goes a long way fellas

[desfjr1300]

^^^To my mind that's the heart of the matter. Maturity. And respect for your fellow human beings-even the one's with the elitist "racer" mentality. :D

[Ninja Viper]

Awesome replys guys, I hear some good stuff. By the way, I am defining bashing as just driving around, hitting jumps, ect. Our track has a large sand pit just behind.

I will give you guys a bit more background.

I actually started the club myself 3 or 4 years ago. We had a really ethusiastic group of guys and we built our first track. It is a fun track but not a serious race worthy track. We have learned the hard way about things we should not do next time. This has limited us from hosting anything big. We also seem to have more problems with our lap counter than many, so many a race day turns into a fun bash session.

Although our member base has grown in the last couple of years we don't have enough people willing to do the work required. Lots of drivers, not enough workers to host something really big.

Our current president is way over worked and as of this moment seems to have to do everything himself.

We don't really have any kind of rule book, most of our races are very lax on time as we want to include everybody.

The split actually occured this winter when most of us do onroad electric for the winter. A couple of the guys wanted to get things really organized for hosting provincial events. Somehow in this process there became a "we" and "them" and members started choosing sides. It soon became the "onroad guys" and the "offroad guys".

The onroad guys wanted to stay under our main club name but there was a "vote" among the offroad members as to if we wanted that, or if they should go under there own banner. Apparently there had been some rumors that the onroad guys were making comments about offroads lack of organization which was taken rather harshly because we had loaned our lap counter to them. Anyways they were voted out on their own.

The onroad guys have done an incredible job of putting their club together. In just a couple months they have incorporated their club and setup as a non-profit organization, they got insurance, a website, forum, rule book and have great direction for the future including getting kids involved and making sure that they have a real family focus.

Our offroad club is starting to have a "good ol boys" look to it, lots of swearing at events and non-family friendly pictures on our forum.

The onroad guys would like to get into offroad but are deciding not to in respect for the offroaders.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. I don't know if I should just accept that each group appeals to a different type racer and that we should be separate or if I should try and get the groups communicating and see if we could come together.

[socalBash]

them damn redneck offroaders - how un - coouth !!! LOL...

[highroller]

Clubs aways run into issues of being able to please the bashers (recreational racers) with the experienced or competitive racers. It clubs and racetracks that try to come halfway to please each segment that does well - you can't always please everyone.
It it not always feasible for every track or club to divide racers in separate classes based on racers' driving ability and experience. On too many occassions racers have been put with experienced drivers which tends to lead to problems on both sides - sometimes leading to person not returning or feel at a disadvantage for several reasons. Even though person might get tons of help in setting up vehicle or help in driving their equipment might be below par of those with more experience or better equiment. In oval racing this seems to be more prevalent where fewer classes are run just for beginners or the recreational racer.
Racing is going to have it's rubbing and collisions, I've always somehow managed to rub someone or someone rubbed me - but in most instances it was unavoidable. Many times it was due to thinking we could get by, or we watched the line other racer was taking and thought the way was clear only to see the hole close. In these instances I don't get upset or angry, either apology to the person I had issue with or tell the person to forget it as it was not a big deal. Then there is the person who for some reason is always involved in some ontrack incident - either the blame is on vehicle, equipment or gets upset because another racer collided or rubbed against their vehicle.
Track rules, driving etiquette should be discussed prior to racing so racers inexperienced and experience are aware of what should be done or expected during racing. I myself race now to improve my results from the week prior, I set personal goals to do better than I did the week before. If I can help someone and they beat me it's fine - sometimes it's better to see someone else leave with a smile in doing well. I've always felt that if I could help someone improve their level of competition by giving them information or lending them a motor, battery etc as they improved it also caused me to refine and improve my level of driving.
Even those of us with years of experience today, started out as bashers or someone showing and helping us.

[suckfish]

Racin & Rubin is part of racing especially when your offraodin with the Big Block Monster Truck screaming down the straight an whipping around the corners.. bound to be some rubin but if you have some ethics you dont smash into the person just becuase he's running slower , wait an go around, nobody should have to pull over to let you by. If your faster then you should'nt have any trouble getting by traffic.. Rubin only slows you down anyways..

[nicholcgn]

Seen the problem with Off-road VS On-road, It is a common problem. Not sure you can totally fix that. But it should not have gotten to the point where you vote the club apart.

As far as the onroad guys not wanting to come to the off-road - You need to understand why. If the language is bad how many parents will let their kids come? The bad part is the club has to make a choice and guidelines. Using something like roar or borrowing a page from your onroad guys might be needed in off-road.

You should have drivers meeting before each race and discuss infractions and start enforcing whatever rules you decide on. In the end you may have to ask someone to leave if they continuously violate a rule. Set standards for that. If it stays a free for all you will loose the track is my gut feeling. I also think that people who expect certain courtesy’s (IE language, no major hacking, etc...) are also the guys who will help on the track.

IF you are chasing away guys who have a thriving club on their own step outside your side and take a look at it. I have seen no clubs survive that cater only to racers or only to bashers. It takes a mix.

[Vato Loco]

My son and I were at a race few weeks back. It was a first time in a very long time. And we were reminded why we quit racing on tracks. Way to many people take it to serious for it to be fun. Not all were A holes but some really made the evening a drag. They just made snide comments on are homemade chassis and poke fun at the choice of body shells we chose to run. You name it we heard it. If you ain't running a factory team something or other you shouldn't be there!
My son and I will be bashers! forever bashers never to grace the LHS tracks again.

[stonely0]

oh come on take it easy. every sports is the same. I used to run a cycling club for road biker but i also welcome Mountain Biker. the problem is always the same... remarks from the road biker to the mountain biker always resulted in an unfriendly race along the busy road at break neck speed...

bottom line is, chill it guys & just enjoy the hobby. Basher or racer we are all RCer afterall. :)

[GHETTOTEACHER]

WOW!! I was agreeing with most of us on this thread. I do have to agree that there is a bit of arrogence and huge ego's between the racers and bashers. There are many racers out there that do look down on the guys that enjoy RC as a hobby. I think that those that don't remember that this is a hobby and not a life should get help!( or something else). I race but at the same time I will not race at a place that the people there are not there to have fun. Nobody wants to be put down when they are there to have fun, but in all too many places thats what happens.
The more you run the better you get! Practicing before a race is in some ways bashing!

[GordonFreeman]

Perhaps the term "basher" should not be used. It has a negative feeling to it. Maybe something like, "The guys that support our LHS and make this hobby even remotely affordable for us elite a-hole racers" or something would be more appropriate.

[B4 Stealth]

i dont have any problem with bashers, as long as they dont do like this one guy did, he brought an E-maxx to electric buggy practice and literally ran over everybodys car. :eek: so many scratches on the body.....

[BIGBADBOWTIE]

At my old track it was more of a money thing than a basher VS racer. I see the racers with their 100$ paint jobs,Hyper 8's and EBmodded Vspec looking down at the old school 9.5 guy with his low buck Hyper 8 port race and AM radio.

An attitude of... IM better than you because I have better equipment.

Nothing like lapping that BIG dollar ride and seeing the look on their face...

[slink]

It cracks me up anytime I hear about someone whining about their car getting scratched and /or broke.Its just the nature of the game.Everytime you set your car on the track you run the risk of damage even if there's not another car on the track.While that may sound like a basher statement the only place I run my buggys is on the track.If a newbie plows me breaks my car and puts me out of the race do I blame them? Certainly not as the experienced driver I should have known & avoided the situtation.Chewing the newbie out doesnt do anything but drive people away from tracks which then track operators cant make enough to pay the bills & end up closing.Next time a basher or newbie plows you,politely help them to make better judgements on the track.Something along the lines of "Hey I noticed your truck was pushing in corners ...Heres what you can do to help correct that. Theres room for all of us in this hobby many bashers are bashers because the way they were treated when they attempted to race! Encouragement goes along way

[sosidge]

Here is my take on it...

Racing - if you have a track and timing then you are running a RACE meeting. Regardless of the skill levels of the racers or the equipment used, racing rules should apply. If people can't race fair or show an intention to improve their driving skills they should be off the track.

Bashing - no rules apply (apart from common decency) - just make sure that nobody thinks the track is being used for racing.

Straightforward distinction to make.

[GHETTOTEACHER]

The basher and racer thing also can run a thin line. I do believe that there is a differnce because we all were bashers at some point in our RC lives. Then there comes a new definition of that person who comes in and slams into you. The HACKER! I race on-road and there are the new guys out there and most of us stay clear of that person. No problem; but then there is the guy out there that is out there to tear up your rig. That person is a basher on purpose. I know you off roaders know of somebody that is like that. On road bashers can destroy your rig with a T-bone or a wide open shot to the rear. I do agree about that statement that "rubbin is racein" but there is a limit. The basher should be encouraged to learn the rules of the race. Back that person up. On the other hand, that guy that comes out there to tear up your stuff.... They gotta go

[BIGBADBOWTIE]

The hacker....I have seen a few. All they know it WOT. Take out whatever is in the way.