Trinity P-94....what is this about? [Archive]

HauntedMyst

07-27-2001, 03:31 PM

Its a long story, but I had a problem with Speed Gems motor. I called their help desk 12 to 15 times trying to get an answer to my question, I always got a busy signal. I called their offices and was told one of their tech support people would call me, they never did, I FAXED a letter to Ernie himself, never got a reply. I went to their board to ask why their customer service stunk, and one of their pimple faced Nazi board moderaters banned me for asking that.

And yeah, chizzlers motor did smoke, then melt after only 3 runs new out of package.

Hands down the worst customer service I've ever received from any company in the RC industry. I can't imagine they've earn your business, they certainly haven't earned mine.

And before I forget, I'm relatively sure that the plutonium or nuclear symbol they are using doesn't represent an extra powerful motor, but instead indicates that whatever they use to make their motors melt will also render you unable to breed after prolonged exposure. :D

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: HauntedMyst ]

ZenLosi

07-27-2001, 04:15 PM

Hmmm...I suppose if you got on their bbs and started hacking on them like that, I guess I could understand why they locked you out.

Personally, I've never had a problem with Trinity, so I've never had to deal with their customer service. Their products always seemed top notch to me.

-Zen

BadRacer

07-27-2001, 06:09 PM

I agree Zen.
Me and HM have went through the whole Trinity thing before in a thread a few months back. I finaly understood where he was coming from. But I still to this day say customer service has no affect on their motors so im going to keep on using them....iv never had one blow up, smoke, or even lock up and so on. I still have my GM3 running like new still and it was bought way back in Febuary (i think)....just makes me wounder how I can keep a motor running that was famous for it blowing up! LOL :D

Now about the P-94, I think its a motor....when it comes I sure its going to cost some major $$$$$$!

Later
Cris :cool:

HauntedMyst

07-27-2001, 06:12 PM

So what you are saying ZenLosi, is if you had a business and failed in every other way to provide good customer service, when they got to your board and complained you would lock them off and further exaggerate the situation?

Am I the only one who has noticed how dense the general population of our country is? Or for that matter, the world? I wonder when our tails will reappear...

Nairb

07-28-2001, 02:43 AM

I'm very interested in what this P-94 deallie ends up being, even though I'm not a big fan of trinity...

Here's an argument for it being a brushless motor. The radiation symbol itself accurately portrays a brushless motor. The three triangular pieces of the logo represent the 3 phases of a brushless motor's can magnetization (3 separate coils are in the can, like the 3 on a brushed motor's armature). The relatively small circle in the center represents the small magnet-only armature of a brushless motor. It makes perfect sense to me. Besides, just any other (brushed) mod motor (D5, anyone?) couldn't claim that it would "change mod racing FOREVER!!" A good brushless system could definitely do that. However, I can't explain the P-94 designation...

I think we'll find out what this is all about just around Chicago Hobby Show time...

I, personally, wouldn't be surprised with anything Trinity does, because they seem to think they can do whatever the crap they want, whether they are honest to their customers or not... Do any of you remember Ernie Provetti bashing the crap out of Novak's effort to make brushless motors for the masses? Eventually, he will eat his words...

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Nairb ]

jeepinator

07-28-2001, 03:43 AM

It is my opinion that Trinity is the worst RC oriented company currently operating. How's that for objective ?
I can pretty much close my argument against Trinity with one single product: BK pitch gears.
If you can explain how that was supposed to benefit this hobby (by introducing an uneeded, proprietary format) you are probably a marketing person or a politician.

chizzler

07-28-2001, 02:24 PM

2 more souls for the "anti" campaign :)

Interceptor

07-28-2001, 02:43 PM

You want a company with bad cusomter service? Try Ofna. Jerks. My Green Machine 3 motor is one of the best I have ever had. I am abit disappointed that my 19 turn speed gems 2motor wore out after only 4 months and 1 turn on a lathe, but that was probably more my fault than the companies. I am taking better care of my 14 turn. Besides, they wouldn't have won best of if they were junk. Don't get me wrong, I totally beleive you when you say that they customer service is bad, but the products are pretty good.

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Interceptor ]

tc3guy

07-28-2001, 06:22 PM

I'm joining the anti trinity campaign. I decided I am only buying Fantom motors now. I love Fantom motors they make good quality motors.

chizzler

07-28-2001, 06:37 PM

fantom takes trinity can and makes them better, but i guess thats ok :)

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: chizzler ]

KIWIRCGUY

07-28-2001, 07:04 PM

I have no idea (as usual) as to what this thingy from Trinity will be. But I have to say that the ad seems to be working, heaps of people going on about it!!
As for Hongnor/OFNA having bad service, how can you say that?? THEY HAVE NO SERVICE!!!
Im just glad that the electric technical advisor for NZRCA (New Zealand Radio Car Association) stocks the parts, and doesnt mind me ringing him for help every other weekend. Im such a Pain... guess my mum was right :D

BrahmaBullSQ

07-28-2001, 08:47 PM

i'm with TC3guy on this one. Fantom motors from now on for me. they haven't been any problem for me. well, my fantom p2k has but i rebuilt it wrong TWICE!!! :eek: man i'm bad. i need to work on that.

and fantom winds their own motors. they just put their stickers on the other companies' cans. :) hehehe. it's all good.

later
~Bull

kartrun

07-28-2001, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the posts guys!I don't use trinity either!I have been running race prep motors since the late 80s' and love them!Mike Dunn is a super guy and tries his best to please his customers! ;)

RC Freak

07-28-2001, 09:50 PM

i am with the anti trinity people, b/c my P2K pro is slower than my traxxas 20 turn stinger and that is sad. by the way where can i order one of these fantom p2k's. my friend had 1 and it was fast, thanks

combones

07-28-2001, 09:57 PM

Don't buy trinity!! Their speed gems don't last. Hauntedmyst, people are still born with tails these days. The recessive gene will sometimes come out and voila, baby with a tail. Most times a simple operation will remove the little wagger. Back in the day, children born with this "abnormality" were killed along with the mother based on the belief that the child was spawned by the devil. You see, we really are not that evolved, hence the perpetuation of the myth that speed gems are good motors.
http://www.plauder-smilies.com/yellows/nerd.gif

rims'

07-28-2001, 10:14 PM

i dont like trinity either. i have a p2k and it is a very bad motor not very fast i dont have enough money to buy a new motor either

SteveP

07-28-2001, 11:03 PM

Guys - I realize opinions can run deep concerning products you like and don't like, and that's fine. It a free country and you can think what you like. Where I have to draw the line is when posts on this board liken a manufacturer to Nazis or to suggest that a company is flat out jerks. It may not seem to be big deal, but it offends some people. I've already received a few emails about the Nazi reference. It hit home with some people that have a history that's a little too close to the subject to have the atrocities of the Nazis marginalized by comparing them to an RC manfacturer you don't like.
If you have a gripe with someone, I have to insist that you stick to the facts about why you are unhappy, and most of all that everyone refrain from extremist rhetoric that is irrelevant and offensive.

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: SteveP ]

chizzler

07-28-2001, 11:22 PM

sorry brahma, i meant an epic can,lol. sorry for being wrong :)

hpiguy

07-28-2001, 11:37 PM

I'm not a big fan of Trinity's marketing tactics, but....

I own numerous TTT products and none have failed. Including about a dozen SpeedGems motors of all winds. I prefer Speedgems above all else when it comes to value for price.

But then not many of my R/C products fail due to a lack of quality. No matter wh makes them.

The only one I have lots of problems with is my HPI RS4MT belt drive, but that was a poor design for off road from the start.

R_C_MAN

07-29-2001, 12:15 AM

Hmmmm..... all these ppl not liking Trinity but they win lots of categories in the RCCA People Choice awards. LOL.
Well I use Trinity products mainly because they are always in stock and easy to find whether I am at the hobby shop or mail ordering. Fantom motors aren't just that easy to come by for me.
As for the P-94 I am guessing the ad is in the Sept. issue?, which I don't have. ARRRGH I hate it when ppl talk about stuff in the new issue when I dont have it. LOL :)

HauntedMyst

07-29-2001, 02:19 AM

Steve,

I appreciate that some people are extra sensitive to the Nazi reference. My grandad, a german national living in Hungary at the time of WWII, was twice nearly beaten to death by Nazi's because he refused to join their army. The Nazi's violently opposed anyone with a different point of view. My grandparents lost everything, their home, their possesions for not falling into line with their point of view.

My reference to them comes from (this is a fact I've experianced from Trinity personally and heard repeatedly from others) the fact that I was banned from their board for a negative comment on Trinity. Everything I post in my original post was fact. I recognise that Trinity is a major contributor of ad revenue to your magazine, if not the biggest then in the top ten. I'm not seeking to hurt your revenue. It would be nice if they actually read these boards and responded with a pro customer service effort.

This is a hobby industry, an industry I think needs to be extra sensitive to customer service. Let's face it, economically, we're on a down slide. One of the first places budgets will be cut is from hobby spending. Who will you spend your money with, those that appreciate and support you as a customer or those that just take your cash and run? Now a days, you have many motor choices, names like Peak, Orion and others have grown in the past few years. Reedy continues to be a strong name.

Sadly, all too often companies fail to see the need for good customer service, especially in the hobby industry, and generally speaking we the customer just put up with it. My local hobby shop excels at it (HobbyTown USA) while others in the Chicago area are not that good at it. The 2 biggest RC car shops in Chicagoland stink at it. While they have excellent stock, their sales people are rude and unfriendly, and as a result they don't get my business any more. Perhaps they felt they were the only game in town and for a while they probably were. Why go to the extra trouble to provide good customer service when with less work they could earn the same in come? After all their customers couldn't go anywhere else to get their hobby stuff.

On one hand, you have companies like Trinity, who take your money and don't provide (at least in my case) any customer service and on the other hand you have companies like HPI and Associated. I have had to contact HPI on a few occasions with troubles with my vehicles. Kent Clausen himself responded to me and went the extra mile to send me no less then 8 rebuild parts for my MT shocks, free of charge!!! He didn't have to do that, he did it to provide excellent customer service. A while back, I contacted Associated with some trouble with my LRP speed control. I was shocked when Mark Pavidis himself replied with an answer and a direct contact to him if I had anymore questions. Did he have to do that? No, he did it to provide excellent customer service and an excellent customer experiance for Associated. I bought 2 Proline Modena bodies and the masks they sent me left residue all over the windows. I tried cleaning them with every know substance to man and they wouldn't come clean. I emailed them, they sent me 2 new bodies, no questions asked. I had one bottle of Testors spray badly on me and contacted them about it. They sent me 16 bottles of paint and 2 rolls of masking tape to make up for it. Did they have to? No, they did it to provide exceptional customer service and because they were smart enough to recognise that my money could easly to go their competitors from then on. Even here at RCCA when I've had questions or comments, I hear back from you guys actually writing the magazine, the names I read each and every month, when you could have slugged it off to some office drone to take care of. Why? I assume it's good customer service. In each of these examples, it shows not only exceptional customer service, it also shows integrity and character. Some companies have it, some don't. The final product is not what I judge a company by. I judge it by my over all experiance with them.

Enough said! Now back to that P-94 thingy...

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: HauntedMyst ]

Nairb

07-29-2001, 02:31 AM

Yeah...what was this thread all about in the first place...? This tangent has taken us nowhere.

Once again, I say the P-94 is a brushless motor system...

jeepinator

07-29-2001, 04:22 AM

HauntedMyst,
That was very close to the most well written post I have ever seen here on the RCCA BBS.
Kudos !

I so agree with you that it is scary !
It is people like you who give feedback to manufactureres that save the rest of us from experiencing pure HEck. I tend to let things go ... not any more ! You have writen quite the inspirational piece there, Thanks for that.

In the most recent RCCA mag I count 9 FULL PAGE ads (including the back cover) and 2 1/2 page Trinity ads (quick run through, there may be more). There was also a full page co-sponsored ad (with Sanyo). This is a significant chunk of revenue. Also, after a quick check I found that no other manufacturer even comes close to this level of advertising.
I am not claiming that RCCA is actively curtailing any negativity regarding Trinity, but it must run heavy on their minds. It would for me, to be totally honest.

In regards to the P-94 marketing hype ...
Please refer to the December '98 issue. On the back cover there is a Trinity ad stating "On november 1st of 1998 the concept of stock motor racing will be shattered!"
Was you concept of stock racing shattered on this date ? Mine was clearly NOT shattered. this folks, is what you call HYPE. This P-94 and the older ad I referenced basically sumarize Trinity's business tactic. I feel they keep just barely under the leagal limits in their marketing claims. They produce revenue through marketing. Other companies are succesful via other, more honerable, means. Namely word of mouth. Trinity is so bold as to tell you what you need and invent entire product lines to fill this fabricated need. Refer to my ealrier refernce to "BK pitch" gears. Trinity so borders on dishonerable it is frightening. If Trinty were as big as Micorosoft, they would be seriously under scrutiny for the exact same marketing and business tactics. They are parallel each other in more ways than I care to count.
The whole battery thing makes my blood boil. They effectively hold a monopoly in the RC battery industry.
One more note ... just for kicks I inspected the back cover of so many RCCA magazines that I lost count. Well over 30. In EVERY ISSUE that I inspected, Trinity was there. I am not a publishing expert by any means, but I would be willing to bet that the back cover is the single most expensive advertising real estate that exists in a printed publication.
I am going to go out on a limb and guess that Trinity's advertising budget exceeds the OPERATIONAL budget of every other RC company. I can't even imagine how much cash all this advertising costs. It must be really astoundingly high. You, the consumer, are DIRECTLY paying for it too. Don't think you aren't.

tarheelquality

07-29-2001, 07:55 PM

hey kartrun,
It seems eveyone forgot the reason for this topic was to figure out what the p94 is. I happen to like my d4 and the power I get from it.hey steve any clues? As far as trinity ads are concerned if they can afford it that means they must have had good products to begin with to get the money. There is a reason that they have been one of the top rc manufacturers since the '80s and it is not due to advertising budget if so GM would not be shutting down oldsmobile because lord knows they spent a ton of money on it. So get off their and rcca's cases about it. If you don't like a product then dont buy it that is what companies listen to. :rolleyes:

Nairb

07-29-2001, 08:09 PM

NEWS FLASH! hehe :) I changed my mind. I think all the fuss is about new batteries, and not brushless motors. New batteries with more capacity and voltage could change mod racing, and it would be just the pefect thing to go with Trinity's overzealous overstatement trend... That's my pick right now...

HowieStern

07-30-2001, 12:38 AM

i think there is around a 3 month delay in the mag business.... so whatever is hitting Stevie's desk today, won't be hitting the shelves till october (or the novem. or decem. issue)...

so.... that would mean he would know what it is 3 months before we can read it in RCCA.... hummmmmmmm....... too bad he isn't known for slipping up and letting the cat out of the bag... LOL.....

SirSpeedy

07-30-2001, 12:52 AM

I'm pretty sure that Mark works for Pro-line, and Billy is in charge of LRP USA.....

ZenLosi

07-30-2001, 08:00 AM

HM- all I was saying is, if you got on their bulletin board and went off on them like you did above, then I'm not surprised they locked you out. If you got on there and actually explained yourself...reasonably...and they still locked you out, that's a different story.

As far as the P-94, I'm guessing it's a battery/ESC/motor system designed to compete with Novak's brushless system. :D

-Zen

DerekB

07-30-2001, 09:21 AM

A few topics I feel deserve some clarification. How much a company spends on advertising is irrelevant. You can't imagine how much Sony and Microsoft spend on advertising. There is a reason for that. Why do you think Coke spends so much. If they stopped then another cola will replace it. Yes we indirectly pay for advertising of any company, but then again we pay for the CEOs house, dog, food, and whatever the company wants. Who cares? Not me.

As far as teh BK pitch gears. I like them. What where they supposed to accomplish? Well instead of having 48 pitch and 64-pitch gears in your box, by buying BK pitch gears you could use the same gears off-road and on-road. Sounds like a good plan to me. If I were just starting out and buying a full set of gears and somebody said that I could be one set of gears and use them on everything I would go for that.

As far as the P-94 issue. I was told we will be the first to see/know what it is.

HauntedMyst

07-30-2001, 11:33 AM

ZenLosi
That is actually the case. I did ask nicely. Then I went um, not so nicely. It's one thing to lock a thread, its another to ban someone entirely on their firt "offense" (Which ironic, it was their offense in the first place!)

Anyways, I think that P-94 thingy will be a motor with a chip that makes it sound like a gas engine.

R_C_MAN

07-30-2001, 03:20 PM

I wonder why Trinity didn't call BK pitch gears by their ACTUAL pitch. They are 56 pitch right? They should've called them....oh I'd say something like....um....56 Pitch gears! It just makes things so easier.
:p

jeepinator

07-30-2001, 03:37 PM

DerekB, great response and good points.

I agree with the advertising costs being irrelavent, to a degree. It was not meant to be one of my main points, but it does sound like I made it that way.
My opinion still stands on their business tactics.
I would also agree with your opinion of BK pitch gears IF they are trying to start a new standard. Meaning the design is open to competition by other makers. This hobby, in my opinion, is a virtual stand still due to the complete lack of standards. Trinity, being a huge player, must bear quite a bit of blame for this. Several non RC experts have made this comment over the years to me. Stuff like, "Why don't wheel and tires just fit on any car ?". I know this is not 100% feasible, but come on, how much less do you think wheels would costs if they did not have to make 57 types ? ... Or more importantly, how much less confusing it would be for newbies, shop owners, etc.
Trinity does nothing to help this problem, but they sure feel inclined to ADD to it by releasing yet another type of gear pitch. And it is named after a driver who may or may not even be driving for them in 1, 5 ,10 years. It just reeks of a not very well thought out, get it on the market, make a quick buck, and drop support for it when it stops selling (or when BK picks up another sponsor).

tc3guy

07-30-2001, 06:23 PM

I think just like you do jeepinator. Newbies should have it easier by not picking through variuos types of wheels and tires. The only reason companies make their own specific type of wheel is so if you buy their car then you must buy their wheel (unless for some odd reason) you dont want to run the car. This way the company makes a few extra bucks.

combones

07-30-2001, 08:33 PM

Thousands of dollars spent on "toys". It is hard to stomach when I hear stories like these. This friggin' hobby is way overpriced. But I love it so.
http://www.plauder-smilies.com/monalisa.gif

HauntedMyst

07-31-2001, 01:32 AM

Jeep,
I see the "standards" issue as a huge one too. I actually worked for Microsoft for 8 years and anyone can say what they like about them, while they used their power for their own benefit they also used it for the benefit of consumers through standardization. No company worked harder through the 90's for standardizations then Microsoft did and it would be nice if this industry did the same.

A Simple Example: Bodies
From my simple motor scootered powered brain, I believe there are 2 BIG body companies in the market, HPI and Proline. I'm just guessing they account for between 60 and 70% of the TC bodies sold here in the USA. Now, HPI went to the trouble of if not inventing, then at least impleamenting the follow: 1. Clean cut out lines 2. Body mount dimples 3. over spray film 4. mounting hardware 5 a gazillion stickers for every body. You know Proline could do the same if they chose to.

My point has to do with #2. An HPI owner merely needs to drill the holes and drop the car on his body. No guessing, no fiddling, no muss no fuss. Asscoiated released the TC3 after the Pro 2 came out. You know they know 50 to 70% of the bodies that were going to be mounted on their cars were going to be HPI. Wouldn't it have been nice for them to align their mounting posts with the HPI bodies? Ditto with the new XXX-S! You know Losi could have moved the post almost anywhere when they were making the molds. You know they and Associated will say "We designed the mounting holes to be optimally placed for the down force of the body..." Blah blah blah blah blah what a pile of horse poop. Maybe 4 people in the world could tell the difference between a TC3/XXX-2 running a body with their body post and one running a body with HPI posts. Instead both of these companies made it harder for everyone of their customers to mount a body. HPI did it right in the first place, this is a standard others should follow.

Don't even get me started on the Rubics Cube puzzle that spring rating systems are...

jeepinator

07-31-2001, 01:48 AM

Oh yeah GREAT points !

I just thought of another one. Remember when losi thought they could simply invent a whole new shock fluid rating system ! How completely asinine ! From that day forward I have never bought any Losi fluid. I noticed the other day that they went back. Hahaha , LOSERS !

jeepinator

07-31-2001, 01:06 PM

More amazingly good points !

Can someone please forward this thread to the heads of influential RC companies ?

I am not EVEN going to argue with you Howie !
Except maybe to say that standardization would be my number 3 and your number 3 would be my number 4. I like RC cars because of the wrenching and working on them. I think others do to ... quite a few newbies are probably intimidated by this though, so you are probably right. I would just put it at 4 instead of 3 ;)

outsider

07-31-2001, 01:27 PM

Um, don't even compare this to Microsoft. Thanks to their junk software we have to support, we spend more time supporting their glitches and patching up their software than anyone. They invent standards and force them upon us. That's hardly helpful. We spend very few resources supporting out Mac systems in comparison to our PC syatems (we have an equal amount)

HauntedMyst

07-31-2001, 03:22 PM

Outsider,

What standards did they force on you? Did someone arrive at your business and put a gun to your head and force to use these standards? It's still entirely possible to have a Microsoft free environment. The mac is so limited in what it can do, so I'm sure it's less trouble.

[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: HauntedMyst ]

HauntedMyst

07-31-2001, 04:00 PM

Howie,
After thinking about your points which I on a cursory read agreed with, I have to say I disagree with them now. The internet and discounting have more to do with price drops then anything else. Those LHS's can now become global if they want. If they don't want to make a website, they can go ebay. Many do just that successfull. I think the main reason most LHS's fail is they have a mentality thats 50 to 60 years old. Stanton here in Chicago is one of the biggest, and their kit prices are simply through the roof when even compared to my local Hobby Town. HT has competative prices on kits and charges retail for parts, bodies etc. Thats where they make their money. It's a simple business fact in this century. They also make their money up because people buy from them repeatedly because they have people who know what their talking about. The owner simply hires people who enjoy the hobby and want to be helpful to people. I can't say that for most of the other hobby shops here in Chicago. Most newbies, young and old don't want to walk into a LHS and feel like an idiot for asking questions. Al's Hobbies in Elmhurst, Illinois excels at this. I don't think I have ever walked in there and had someone in their Car Department act like they were happy to see you as a customer or happy to help you with any question. Usually they act like its a lot of trouble for them to even turn around, reach out and get a product you just asked about off their wall. It's really a matter of priority of the owner as to the quality of the help. Al's has gotten by a lot on the "we're the only game in town" mentality. Times change. Customer service is much more important then ever, especially for an LHS.

As far as this sport running away newbies, I agree and disagree. I agree that it does, but primarily because of price and changing times. Let's face it, it's an expensive hobby and hard to explain to people. They see toy cars, we see our sophisticated RC racing machines. I'm an adult and have shown my cars to all my friends. They all think it's cool until I tell them how much conservatively it would cost to get them into racing and then none has an interest in it. The bottom line is, unless it was 50 bucks for a whole racing set up, they just weren't really that interested in the first place. I don't think this hobby is over priced (except for tires and batteries), just has a narrower interest band then we realize.

I think RTR's both eletric and nitro have come a long way in the past 3 years, but yeah, they require some maintenance. My TC3 really only needs about 1/2 hour a week maintenance if I don't wreck it. The thing is, you have to want or at least accept that maintenance as part of the hobby or your car does end up on ebay. Lots of people don't want to do maintenance, this hobby isnt for them. I agree, when it comes to newbies, everyone needs to help. We let kids who walk with their Radio Shack cars race in a misc. class at my track just so they don't feel left out.

Lastly, at our track, we have people of all ages. Only 50% of the kids that come out have their parents with them supporting them and I believe that is a very high percentage. Where are the parents who don't come out? They should be out there encouraging and supporting their kid the same way they would if he was playing baseball or football. If your one of those kids, tell your parents you want them there, you want their help.

I don't have any real answers for how to grow this hobby, but I do think the manufacturers are making it easier every day for people to get involved with their kits. I do think that some simple common sense standards would go a long way towards keep those already in the hobby actually in it. Or at least it would have it easier for people to enjoy the hobby.

[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: HauntedMyst ]

HowieStern

07-31-2001, 05:12 PM

sometimes i think that if it wasn't for Traxxas RTR's, this sport wouldn't have any newbies at all....

RTR's sure do help get new people into the sport, but one that breaks every time it is driven, or one that has a hard to tune nitro motor run them off just as fast as they start...

HM- i get where you are coming from with the discounters and internet sales... and indeed, they are killing off the LHS's just as fast as horizon and Tower...

i guess this is my main point->

RC requires quite a bit of customer service to get going... the kind of customer service that simply can NOT be had over the internet, from a mail order place...

a very large percentage of newbies are buying over the net or by mail order... they love the low prices (that they simply can not get from LHS's), but when problems arise, the guy on the other end of the phone can't grab a hold of his RC and SHOW him how to fix it...

i guess that's my main point why so many newbies give up or slowly lose interest...

if the LHS's could compete in price, more newbies would stay in this sport... but they can't, not with the current distribution system...

i come from the car audio biz... and it is nothing like this fiasco that RC has created...

most car audio companies would never even THINK about most of their equipment being sold via mail order or the net (in fact, they view that as a disgrace)... they realize that their equipment requires a certain amount of skill to install properly, so they make sure at least it is sold from an authorized retailer in a persons area.... and if the person chooses to install it themself, at least they have their dealer to help them work the bugs out hands on....

the higher end car audio (PPI, Orion, ect) companies distribute like this...

1. they only sell directly to each individual retailer

2. then, they have a sales rep in each area (usually a state) to help the dealer, and to take his orders... the sales reps job is to bend over backwards for the retailer making sure they are happy, and selling as much product as possible... the sales rep can NOT sell to distributors, and he can NOT sell to anyone other than an authorized dealer... if the sales rep finds out that a retailer is selling his product below a certain price that the manufacturer doesn't want the product sold at, then the rep destroys the contract, and that retailer is no longer able to sell that product... the rep also only signs up a select number of stores to sell his brand, this keeps price gouging down within a certain city... he doesn't want every store in town trying to undercut the others... so instead he only signs up one store... these reps do not even have to touch the product, and the make 8-15% on every dollar they sell to a store...

car audio has grown like mad the last decade..... RC has dropped off if anything...

peace out... :)

wjj

07-31-2001, 06:41 PM

Actually microsoft did put a gun to business heads figuarlly speaking. the software business is not standardrized, that is the hardware side. Software dosen't even come close to the quallity that the hardware business has in there products.

combones

07-31-2001, 06:49 PM

Batteries and tires. Unfortunately they are what we need most. $6 for electric motor spray at your lhs vs ~$1.50 at your laps(local auto parts store). Many things, besides batteries and tires, are overpriced. About lhs's, in Tampa there are about 4 or 5 w/in 20 minutes of me, and ever since HobbyTown came along, I haven't had the need to go to any of the others. The main reason is customer sevice. Honestly I don't see how 2 of them are still in business. They blow.
http://www.plauder-smilies.com/rough/jesse1.gif

Throtl Hapie

07-31-2001, 07:54 PM

You guys have to realize, these companies are in it to MAKE MONEY. It's ALWAYS about money, money is the most important thing on this planet, these companies could care less if you hated them, as long as they get their money, they DON'T CARE.

Car_Head12

07-31-2001, 08:09 PM

hmmm... hate to be the one to tell you this... but look at the topic of this thread... lol.

HowieStern

07-31-2001, 08:44 PM

LOL.... very true car_head... LOL.... but when a thread gets this long it is seldom on the correct topic....

and there is another P-94 thread... maybe it will stay on topic... LOL....

peace out... :)

ChumsGum

07-31-2001, 09:48 PM

This hobby has become too technology driven.

I walked away from RC ten years ago because I got tired of the constant false message this sport evokes. What false message? "The more money you spend, the more fun you'll have." Everywhere you turn, you are pressured to upgrade and spend more money. This is a dark cloud that looms over RC, and it pushes people away, newbies and vets.

You buy a top of the line Associated B2 buggy, the next year, they release a B3 buggy. Your B2 now has "obsolete" written all over it. You open up a magazine to read a review on the new Ultima and it's tested with a $160 LRP stock racing ESC. Come on, how many of us that race in stock class can afford a $160 ESC? What about those insane batteries? 1200, 1400, 1700, 2000, 2400 NiCds, then there's 3000 NiMh and they tell me I have to buy a new charger for those. When will it end?

Eventually, this wears on a fellow and you're left feeling very in-antiquate unless you spend the money to upgrade.

RC became a bottomless money pit for me. I decided to sell everything I owned related to RC and moved on to other hobbies.

A kid who brings his non-graphite buggy to track should feel every bit as good as someone who brings a Factory Team buggy. Instead though, that kid with the Duratrax ESC powered buggy is looked down upon.

To the RCCA staff:
Why not do a shootout between the buggies of yesteryear Vs the buggies of today? I'd love to see cars like the AE Team Car, Kyosho Ultima Pro, and the Losi JRX-Pro go up against today's B3, Ultima Type-R, and the XXX. Would today's cars come out on top? Probably. Would the older cars be competitive? Without a doubt. In fact, an older car with a better driver would beat the newer car with a less competent driver.

Why not do a track test ESC shootout with two equal cars, but one car having a $50 ESC and the other with a $160 ESC? Without the drivers knowing, would the car with the $160 ESC consistently beat out the other?

My point is that you don't need to spend a lot of money to be competitive or to have fun. The industry needs to do more to promote this message or risk loosing more customers.

HowieStern

08-01-2001, 12:40 AM

you think this sport is at a stand-still because of everything not being standardized??

that is a factor... but not the main factor holding this sport back...

here are the factors as i see them...

1. the distribution/monopoly system... this "system" has killed off and held down the remaining LHSs.... how does it do this?? it makes the distributors that the LHS's buy from into their main competitors... this results in either -> a. LHS's closing their doors entirely, or -> b. the remaining LHS end up not making any money- which results in less parts stocked, and lower quality help that works there..

2. this sport runs away the newbies... what is the main thing that runs newbies away?? i would guess broken parts on a brand new vehicle, or a nitro vehicle they can't get running or keep running... if a newbie is doing mail order, or has a poor LHS, once they have a problem or two and can't get it fixed, usually their RC ends up on E-bay..... another factor is local track club members who aren't willing to help newbies... often a newbie will get into RC's then find a track to drive at... if the guys running the track don't welcome a newbie with open arms and ears... the newbie may never come back... the local club guys should bend over backwards to help keep newbies in this sport.. too often they blow them off, taking for granted that they will return.. too many don't...

3. too much maintance of popular vehicles... the typical electric motor only last around 20 packs (some much less) before it needs a rebuild... the typical nitro engine needs hours of tuning during it's life to keep running well.... and if you race at a decent level, you will probably need to spend at least 3-5 hours (per vehicle) a week on general vehicle upkeep... most people don't have the time or patience to put up with this... i know these are just toys... but even the most reliable toy in the RC market right now requires a decent amount of work to keep it running week in and week out... if the manufactures can cut up-keep in half, they will keep a lot of newbies...

somewhere down my list would be standardization of gears, tires, wheels, connectors, servo sizes, servo horns, ect..... but if we could just fix the top 3, this sport would see a boom like never before... we missed our chance during the last economic upswing... a real shame... maybe next time....

peace out... :)

bubblejunky

08-01-2001, 01:51 PM

Righto chums!! Every time I tell someone they will be completely happy with a futaba magnum sport(recently on sale @ tower for $45) or a blazer sport radio, many people respond by saying to spend the most you can afford on your radio. Don't buy the fusion, buy the cyclone. Don't buy the cirrus servo, get the airtronics. Don't waste your money on a cheapo charger, get the millenium. You won't be able to compete unless you do!! If you stick with "entry level" electronics, you can probably afford two rides for the price of one. I know you get what you pay for and that all said "high end" electronics are very, very good, but the inexpensive stuff should be pushed more to get more people invovled. I have several cars, but my favorite is my ftb3 with a magnum sport, novak 410 m5(?) sport esc(10 years old), and recently trued PRO-CAM motor(also about ten years old). Why is it that my esc, as old as it is, performs just as well as my new novak and lrp esc's? I paid ~$90 back in the day, and it has no motor limit. Hasn't technology come along enough in 10 years to produce a great esc with no motor limit for around $50?
It seems these companies just keep charging more and more for items that should be becoming less and less. Look at the price of computers during just the last few years. What used to be 2K is now 8 hundo. Look at camcorders. VCR's. TV's. It is maddening.