Traxxas TRX 3.3 engine and new Revo, T-Maxx: talk about them here!

[PeterV]

http://209.2.68.15:8011/pics/revo33.jpg

You'll have to hold out for the May RCCA's First Drive article to get our full story on the Traxxas Revo 3.3, T-Maxx 3.3, and T-Maxx 2.5R, but there's still plenty to talk about right now! Scope out the story at www.rccaraction.com, hit www.traxxas.com for the official hype, then come'on back to talk about it here.

[RCMadMatt]

Peter, any difference to the trucks other than the bigger engines?

Matt

edit: nvm, just read the traxxas info on their site.

[thedarkness]

Longer chassis, center diff option are what I can see.
http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/revo/revo33/accessories/RevoCenterDiffAcc.jpg
http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/revo/revo33/accessories/RevoRearBrakeAcc.jpg
http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/revo/revo33/details/revo33chassisfeat.jpg

[metalry101]

NOW I might buy a Revo. That's impressive stuff. I still don't want anything to do w/ the electronics, and it still needs the extended rear arms...but that's an impressive revamp. Nice job Traxxas.

As for the T-Maxx...

I know why they still make it, because they still sell like mad, and they still make a ton of money on them, but come on people, stop buying that garbage. Reject everything T-Maxx so that Traxxas will stop making it. Please.

[SerpentKing101]

look like traxxas fixed all the things on the t-maxx that people whine about all the time.

if any boycott is in order, its for the previous and current t-maxxes out there.

[RCMadMatt]

If Traxxas has finally(!) updated the Tmaxx to fix the problems it has, it should be a fairly decent truck. New transmission, Revo-spec drivetrain, and what appears to be bulkheads made from different material might make it last a while before breakage. We'll soon see.

Matt

[Colt M4]

Wish they would offer a kit Revo or one without any electronics.

[paperclipracer]

wait wait, a 3.5 is a .25 big block, a 2.5 is a .15 so is the 3.3 an .18 a .21. or??? like a .23 and why couldent they just make a new truck o well

[thedarkness]

its a .20 3.5cc is .21ci

[jebus your fate]

was just gonna email you this when i saw it here, ah well, tis kool :)

[jocktheglide165]

wheres my new emaxx after all this....

[pcnutz]

I wanted an electric revo, not a big block revo, already have ext vantage chassi and big block conversion. I dunno if this new revo could be considered small block monster class

[ZoneOfTheEnders]

now im really interested in a revo, i want to see one of these race a savy x now

[TonyV]

I wonder if there will be a conversion kit like they had when they went to the Wide Maxx?

[ZoneOfTheEnders]

there should be because i would think that theyd stop making the old revo chassis

[zakerid]

all i can say is... wow.

[Freedom]

I already have a Revo, oh well.

[dizzy_d]

Has anyone seen pricing yet?

[Adanmtxt1]

wheres my new emaxx after all this....

I know, it seems as though the E-Maxx has been left in the closet for the time being. I understand nitro is the way to be now, and I have a Revo (original), but it would be sweet to see some upgrades make their way onto the electric brother. I am jealous of the new Revo owners, though, center diff option!!! Extended WB just like Slayden.

[thedarkness]

slayden and mike b also run a center diff(and have for a while now) just for your info

[SquirrelNutz]

give it a new body, give it a longer chasis....heck....give it a new trx 3.3 engine; it just doesnt matter.

Traxxas- STOP PUTTING A SMALL BLOCK ENGINE IN A MONSTER TRUCK!!!!!!

So the 3.3 is what? a .18 or .20 engine? everyone else is putting a .27 in their trucks? While a revo with a .18/20 is impressive I think that I would take a OS any day over the trx.

I have a Revo. I love it to death. I just think that traxxas needs to learn what a big block engine could do for them.

[Racing t]

Is good to know that traxxas is solving the problems, better late than never! :)

[RespirologyRC]

3.3 is a .20 engine. NOT a .21 or a .18 it's a .20

[justinspankey]

now i reallly reallly want the t-maxx
Justin CLarke

[jocktheglide165]

give it a new body, give it a longer chasis....heck....give it a new trx 3.3 engine; it just doesnt matter.

Traxxas- STOP PUTTING A SMALL BLOCK ENGINE IN A MONSTER TRUCK!!!!!!

So the 3.3 is what? a .18 or .20 engine? everyone else is putting a .27 in their trucks? While a revo with a .18/20 is impressive I think that I would take a OS any day over the trx.

I have a Revo. I love it to death. I just think that traxxas needs to learn what a big block engine could do for them.

maybe they are scared of reliability so they dont put in a big block engine. :confused:

[Eightballracing]

They should design a truck around a big block engine instead of trying to put a big block in a small block platform. Also, Traxxas needs to start caring about electrics more. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would love to see a brushless Revo or Jato. Now that would be sweet.

[t9dragon]

give it a new body, give it a longer chasis....heck....give it a new trx 3.3 engine; it just doesnt matter.

Traxxas- STOP PUTTING A SMALL BLOCK ENGINE IN A MONSTER TRUCK!!!!!!

So the 3.3 is what? a .18 or .20 engine? everyone else is putting a .27 in their trucks? While a revo with a .18/20 is impressive I think that I would take a OS any day over the trx.

I have a Revo. I love it to death. I just think that traxxas needs to learn what a big block engine could do for them.

If they made one with a big block then they would have to upgrade the tranny & diff gears along with the axles. So why would they do that with all the after market parts that are avaliable for the T-Maxx & Revo. Who knows maybe a big block would just drop-in with out any modifications to the 3.3.

[revo revolution]

i just replaced a trx 2.5r two weeks ago and now they came out with the 3.3.
hopefully they will replace it, i haven't broken it in yet

[thedarkness]

The driveline on the revo is plenty strong enough for a bb even at the track not just bashing.I can tell you my revo diffs have held up allot better than the diffs on my savage(spiders would strip) did.

[luvnitro]

On the new 3.3 T-Maxx, has the tranny been beefed up enough to take the added power of a big block .28 now??? of course, they have .26-.27's out now made for the T-Maxx. People have just been scared to put one in a current T-Maxx because what it would do to the drivetrain.

[fastharry]

you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.......

my tmaxx was my first and last TRAXXAS car.......(and I own 135 RC cars)..........

[papazilla]

Love em or hate em, Traxxas is a business model to be admired. They sell a load of T-Maxx's and now they sell a load of Revo's. I personally own a Revo, race and bash my Revo, and it has performed flawlessly. I have been in this hobby since 1981 and every day someone hates a brand or loves them. Everyday someone thinks they should have done this or should have done that. All I can say is that a lot more people must like what they are doing than those that don't like it because they are one of the the most succesfull companies out there.

[DENTEC36]

This may P.O some but I don't see the big deal, CEN has MT's with a 5.0 HP .46 stock ! NEMESIS 7.7 stadium monster & GENESIS monster. :cool:

[R_C_hoodlum]

Fricken A!!! :mad: I just got a t-maxx 2.5 back in October. I knew I could get the Revo but a maxx is what I could afford and I knew it was still goin strong. But NOW! I hate it when this happens. They have 3 new trucks and the regular 2.5 is going to be obsolete and parts availability will decrease and eventually be impossible to get some of the parts that aren't carried on to the 2.5R and 3.3. I don't know about anyone else but I think RC tech. is moving a little too fast. But those trucks really do kick a**. I just wish they woould wait to release them and do one at a time.

[SerpentKing101]

heh..dont be too mad, I got a first-gen t-maxx almost a week ago. My wallet will be crying more than yours when we have to update these things.

at least we wont have to pay lots of money for certain aftermarkets bits I guess...

[WheelNut]

LOL, dude older parts for the maxx wont be discontinued for year. Traxxas has sold over a million Tmaxxes, they definately need to keep making parts for them. Although I agree with you RC companies should only introduce new models every 10 years, becuase coming out with new stuff every 4 years is waaaaay to fast..... :rolleyes:

[pballdude]

I'll take a truggy. RTR Ofna CRT, metal steering servo, .28 and about $50 more or so.

[adrianderekluna]

i'm seeing a lot of plastics in terms of gear mesh drivetrain. is anyone else concerned with that? why not hardened steel?

has the tmaxx always had a plastic drivetrain?

[MikeWz]

Maybe they'll actually produce a consitant motor now. Rather than having a few people get motors with sick power, and some that are utterly impossible to tune. Wouldn't that be something, huh

[jocktheglide165]

Love em or hate em, Traxxas is a business model to be admired. They sell a load of T-Maxx's and now they sell a load of Revo's. I personally own a Revo, race and bash my Revo, and it has performed flawlessly.


uhhh not exactly tamiya is the business model you should admire since you been in the hobby since 81 you should know better traxxas copied tamiya.

[thedarkness]

How so, untill a few years ago all there was were tamiya kits sure there were lots of beginner level cars but they were almost all kits, traxxas has only had two kits in there entire history.one is very agressive with advertising the other barley advertises at all.two companies can be atributed to the RTR revolution that is traxxas and duratrax.

[jocktheglide165]

How so, untill a few years ago all there was were tamiya kits sure there were lots of beginner level cars but they were almost all kits, traxxas has only had two kits in there entire history.one is very agressive with advertising the other barley advertises at all.two companies can be atributed to the RTR revolution that is traxxas and duratrax.

if your talking about RTR revolution yeah of course traxxas rocks, but he meant general and i believe tamiya is probably one of the only companies who actually promote RC in general. Either way tamiya started RC they promoted it to everyone from kids to older adults.

[sugs]

What the Revo should have been from the beginning.

[kawasakirider]

Will the prise rise much from $450 usd? If it does i will be stuck with the .15 revo coz i can't pay much more i have $1350 aussie dollars i hope that covers it. When will it be in Australia?

[metalry101]

What the Revo should have been from the beginning.
Agreed 100%.

[kawasakirider]

Extreme Upgrades
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[SerpentKing101]

heh..heres my idea for the E-Maxx 3.3 (or widemaxx 2 or something):

the new t-maxx goodies plus:

redesigned and backwards-compatible chassis so we dont scrape the lining off the battery wires. im thinking slots for 7 cells plus spacer blocks for whose with stick packs (oh yes, theyres plenty of room for that extra cell. just involves moving some holes around and rotating the shifting and steering servos. the steering one would need a different arm though)

novak heavy duty xr esc with a cooling fan (or just have some for the evx)

oh yes, and some way to lighten the thing. e-maxxes weigh like 3 pounds more than their nitro cousin.

[SerpentKing101]

double post..delete me

[kawasakirider]

So no one has an estimate in the price rise or the date of it landing in aus? Apparently it is being released in america on march the 30th i hope $1300 aussie dollars will pay for it.

[kawasakirider]

This may P.O some but I don't see the big deal, CEN has MT's with a 5.0 HP .46 stock ! NEMESIS 7.7 stadium monster & GENESIS monster. :cool:


Yeah they have bigger engines but the genesis is a slow fragile POS i have seen one in a smf vid and it broke the front right a arm and everything from a barrel roll and it was barely a foot off the ground and it travelled aboout 5 ft through the air and you can see it in the same vid the acceloration is horrible. Personally I know the new and the old Revo would kill them in anything except a compatition for the best boat anchor, this will be my next rc and i am just waiting for it to hit Aussie shores i am going to put an order on it at my lhs tommorow i can't wait!!!!!!

Trent

[ducklake1]

Sounds Good, but where's the BIG Blocks?!?!

[1BAD79]

i just got a email from traxxas last night about the new 3.3 engine, 3.3 revo, 3.3 t-maxx, and 2.5R t-maxx. i think the 3.3 t-maxx looks sweet. i just printed out a crap load of info on the new engine and 3.3 t-maxx which im going to read later on today. does anyone know when its going to come out and how much its going to cost. another good thing is that its compatible with the other maxxes so you will have no problem finding parts for it.

[ducklake1]

The Traxxas site says "now shipping", so where can you buy it, and how much??

[rc411]

wow... traxxas must be hurting. A new engine... that aint gonna fix their many problems, but they seem to think it will.

[suckfish]

well if thier claiming it's a .20 it would be classified as a Big Block at my Local track..

[smoky]

i cant understand how someone could say rc tech is moving to fast what do you want them to do just sit around and make parts for a truck that they know can be way better and a new kit every ten years!!!! thats nuts even 4 years is kinda long if the tech didnt advance the hobby would die people would get tired of running the same thing for ten years even 4. im just saying i dont think its possible for it to move to fast its a business thats what there supposed to do. just my .02

[ragamuffin]

So, the new engine looks like basically a 2.5R with a bigger piston & sleeve? No turbo-cut on the flywheel, crankcase is the same (a good thing, looks like it will fit on small-block engine mounts), larger head.

If that's indeed the same carb, though, I foresee a continuation of carb bodies cracking... :(

[4DMNYC]

Maybe I missed it, but are there specs on this new engine? :confused: I didn't see them anywhere.

[Tim'sLosi]

Great timing for me...I will now be running a Nitro Rustler 3.3 once I get the 2.5 exchanged! WooHoo!

[guest2001619]

ok it says different material on the diffs for the t maxx. will the gears hold up to the new 3.3. are the diffs sealed now like the revos so we can keep diff fuild in them.



i like the new tmaxx if the diffs are sealed and can take the power. i wish they changed the steering to the pro line steering and a better fuel tank.

[synapse75]

wow... traxxas must be hurting. A new engine... that aint gonna fix their many problems, but they seem to think it will.

more than a new motor

from a marketing and probably financial standpoints, traxxas is probably the most seccessful rc company

[USATorque55]

ok it says different material on the diffs for the t maxx. will the gears hold up to the new 3.3. are the diffs sealed now like the revos so we can keep diff fuild in them.



i like the new tmaxx if the diffs are sealed and can take the power. i wish they changed the steering to the pro line steering and a better fuel tank.

Very good news for all E-Maxx owners out there. I'm in the process of hooking up a brushless system to my E-Maxx. I already have alloy diff cases, CVDs, and central hardened gears, but gears that are tough enough to take a big block I would hope could handle a high-power brushless.

Hope the gears fit in the old diff cases... If not I might just stay with E-Maxx gears.

Anyone know how much the engine will cost new? I run a 2.5 Nitro Rusty, a 3.3 wouldnt be bad.

[Eccentric]

uhhh not exactly tamiya is the business model you should admire since you been in the hobby since 81 you should know better traxxas copied tamiya.

Traxxas copied Tamiya? Only in that Traxxas sells cars with four wheels that are radio controlled. That'd be like saying Toyota copied Ford because Ford has been making autos longer...


BTW-Which came first, the T-Maxx or the TNX??? After all, the TNX isn't layed out anything like the Maxx. :D

[metalry101]

BTW-Which came first, the T-Maxx or the TNX??? After all, the TNX isn't layed out anything like the Maxx. :D
The TNX is laid out a lot like a Maxx, as is the MGT, I'll give you that. Ever owned them, or even driven them? I've owned all three. I still do own an E-Maxx, a TNX (soon to be two), and an MGT. The MGT and TNX borrowed the concepts on the Maxx that work well (the suspension and in the TNX's case, the general chassis layout), and then they modified it to make it work better. I agree that both companies did take their general design ideas from the Maxx, but they're not clones. The TNX and MGT are both MUCH larger trucks, and they're simpler, and tougher, and easier to work on, and more reliable, and just all around infinitely better trucks. They're pretty basic in terms of technology, but their performance speaks volumes about their design. They're still rock solid vehicles that are competitive in today's monster truck market. The only areas where a T-Maxx can compete in today's monster trucking world are parts availability, and speed. Durability? Please, I've seen sheets of glass that take more punishment than a Maxx. Ease of maintence? This is the area where the T-Maxx shows its age the most, it's hopeless. Tamiya and Thunder Tiger (the company that owns AE and designed the MGT) both looked to the Maxx, borrowed what was good, and fixed what was bad. If Traxxas wants to keep the Maxx competitive (it would take a lot of work, but Traxxas engineers seem to enjoy a challenge), they probably could, and they could do it by learning from the TNX and the MGT, trucks that are similiar, but far superior in every way, especially in durability, which is the Maxx's biggest disadvantage in today's market.

[synapse75]

how thin is the cylinder sleeve with a .20 in a "small-block" case?

it seems with other companies that thin sleeves are prone to losing compresion when over heated.

[Freedom]

how thin is the cylinder sleeve with a .20 in a "small-block" case?

it seems with other companies that thin sleeves are prone to losing compresion when over heated.


Well if you know how to tune well, that shouldn't be a problem. :cool:

[synapse75]

Well if you know how to tune well, that shouldn't be a problem. :cool:

yes, problem is at my part-time job on the weekends I have to tune/fix vehicles for those that can't tune a motor well.

I wonder if it will have reliability issues with a super thin sleeve... I'll know after the first 12 year-old kid runs it super lean...

[Adanmtxt1]

I guess I am just surprised with the commotion surrounding big-block motors. Here we have the new Revo 3.3 with a generously lengthened wheelbase, better motor, and a few other goodies that were unnecessary, and several of us turn our noses at the engine. :confused: . Sure, you can achieve major torque gains with .21-.26-sized engine, but that costs weight. For me, the first 2.5R engine is good enough. Also with big-blocks comes greater fuel consumption. The point of racing is low weight and efficiency. Now, I don't race often, but when I do, my Revo hauls butt. I guess it is just a balance like everything else, but lets not be mean! :D

[synapse75]

Some (most) ppl will always think bigger is better and thats a large segment you have to market to.

[synapse75]

Some (most) ppl will always think bigger is better and thats a large segment you have to market to.

Personally Id rather have a smaller higher quality more efficient motor, that performs better.

[Tim'sLosi]

Personally Id rather have a smaller higher quality more efficient motor, that performs better.
Exactly...Like the O.S. 18Tm for example

[metalry101]

Personally Id rather have a smaller higher quality more efficient motor, that performs better.
Performs better where? I'll relate the Traxxas 2.5 to a real automotive engine, so that you can see why I don't care for it.

The Traxxas 2.5 is like the turbo 4 cylinder in a Mitsubishi Evo 9, it's got insane power, as much power as a decent V8 in a pickup truck (Chevy's 5.3 for instance). However, it doesn't have the right powerband. There's a reason Chevy doesn't put a turbo 4 in their trucks, quite apart from the fact that Chevy couldn't make a decent turbo 4. They don't put them in there because they don't have the powerband for a work truck. They have no bottom end, they don't pull at all until you get them into the upper half of their rpm range. The 2.5 is the same way. It's fine on flat ground, it's great for small, light duty rigs like the Jato or Nitro 4-Tec. It doesn't fair so well in a T-Maxx or a Revo when you're bashing it. Racetracks are flat, and don't have grass, mud, snow, or anything else in the way, so the Revo does fine there, but put it in tall grass, or mud, or snow, and the truck barely moves as the engine bogs and overheats. All that power doesn't do you any good if it doesn't have the torque to pull itself, and the truck it's bolted to, to that point in the powerband. I'm not knocking the power. I'm knocking the powerband. It doesn't work in a monster truck when the thing is actually used like a monster truck. Period.

As for this 3.3...I'm excited to see what it can do. It should have a lot more bottom end, if for nothing else, it's 33% bigger than the 2.5. Bigger engines inherently have more torque. I'd rather see a mild big block, as it'd have more torque still, and be far easier to tune and less finicky...but I'll give Traxxas credit for at least listening to their customers for once and putting in a bigger engine for those of us who need torque for bashing.

[synapse75]

Performs better where? I'll relate the Traxxas 2.5 to a real automotive engine, so that you can see why I don't care for it.

The Traxxas 2.5 is like the turbo 4 cylinder in a Mitsubishi Evo 9, it's got insane power, as much power as a decent V8 in a pickup truck (Chevy's 5.3 for instance). However, it doesn't have the right powerband. There's a reason Chevy doesn't put a turbo 4 in their trucks, quite apart from the fact that Chevy couldn't make a decent turbo 4. They don't put them in there because they don't have the powerband for a work truck. They have no bottom end, they don't pull at all until you get them into the upper half of their rpm range. The 2.5 is the same way. It's fine on flat ground, it's great for small, light duty rigs like the Jato or Nitro 4-Tec. It doesn't fair so well in a T-Maxx or a Revo when you're bashing it. Racetracks are flat, and don't have grass, mud, snow, or anything else in the way, so the Revo does fine there, but put it in tall grass, or mud, or snow, and the truck barely moves as the engine bogs and overheats. All that power doesn't do you any good if it doesn't have the torque to pull itself, and the truck it's bolted to, to that point in the powerband. I'm not knocking the power. I'm knocking the powerband. It doesn't work in a monster truck when the thing is actually used like a monster truck. Period.

As for this 3.3...I'm excited to see what it can do. It should have a lot more bottom end, if for nothing else, it's 33% bigger than the 2.5. Bigger engines inherently have more torque. I'd rather see a mild big block, as it'd have more torque still, and be far easier to tune and less finicky...but I'll give Traxxas credit for at least listening to their customers for once and putting in a bigger engine for those of us who need torque for bashing.

Ha! when I said "Personally Id rather have a smaller higher quality more efficient motor, that performs better." I was NOT referring to the trx motor. I like their idea, but I was thinking more along the lines of nova rossi. A .12 rossi makes about the same or more torque than the trx2.5.

[metalry101]

Ha! when I said "Personally Id rather have a smaller higher quality more efficient motor, that performs better." I was NOT referring to the trx motor. I like their idea, but I was thinking more along the lines of nova rossi. A .12 rossi makes about the same or more torque than the trx2.5.
And a Novarossi .12 has what to do with the Revo and/or T-Maxx?

I wasn't replying only to the quote of yours I highlighted. I was also replying to this.
Some (most) ppl will always think bigger is better and thats a large segment you have to market to.
When it comes to getting a 10+ lb monster truck up a hill, through the mud, or whatever, bigger is almost always better.

[synapse75]

And a Novarossi .12 has what to do with the Revo and/or T-Maxx?

I wasn't replying only to the quote of yours I highlighted. I was also replying to this.

When it comes to getting a 10+ lb monster truck up a hill, through the mud, or whatever, bigger is almost always better.

No, more torque is better. (or lots and lots of revs)

[Eccentric]

The TNX is laid out a lot like a Maxx, as is the MGT, I'll give you that. Ever owned them, or even driven them?

What's up with that question??? Are you trying to infer from my low post count that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to RC??? Hell, you weren't even BORN in '81!!! I was running nitro powered cars then... A year after you were born I was RACING 10th scale buggies! For the record I have not driven a TNX or MGT (I have driven several Maxx's, as well as many RC's designed before and after the MAXX series such as the Revo), but have examined them closely with an EXPERIENCED eye. That certainly is enough for me to be able to make my 'layout' comment (which you agreed with FWIW). Ever owned or driven a Kyosho Wildcat or Nimitz? Ever owned or driven an RPS Yokomo SE or a Mauri Big Bear??? How about a Tamiya Frog, Hornet, Blackfoot or Hot Shot? I was running Tamiya products BEFORE you were in diapers!


I've owned all three. I still do own an E-Maxx, a TNX (soon to be two), and an MGT. The MGT and TNX borrowed the concepts on the Maxx that work well (the suspension and in the TNX's case, the general chassis layout), and then they modified it to make it work better. I agree that both companies did take their general design ideas from the Maxx, but they're not clones. The TNX and MGT are both MUCH larger trucks, and they're simpler, and tougher, and easier to work on, and more reliable, and just all around infinitely better trucks. They're pretty basic in terms of technology, but their performance speaks volumes about their design. They're still rock solid vehicles that are competitive in today's monster truck market. The only areas where a T-Maxx can compete in today's monster trucking world are parts availability, and speed. Durability? Please, I've seen sheets of glass that take more punishment than a Maxx. Ease of maintence? This is the area where the T-Maxx shows its age the most, it's hopeless. Tamiya and Thunder Tiger (the company that owns AE and designed the MGT) both looked to the Maxx, borrowed what was good, and fixed what was bad. If Traxxas wants to keep the Maxx competitive (it would take a lot of work, but Traxxas engineers seem to enjoy a challenge), they probably could, and they could do it by learning from the TNX and the MGT, trucks that are similiar, but far superior in every way, especially in durability, which is the Maxx's biggest disadvantage in today's market.


I never made ANY comments as to whether the Maxx family (or any other truck) was 'better' or more durrable, etc than ANY other RC. I agree that the MGT and TNX are good trucks (never said they weren't). My origional point was addressing the 'traxxas copied tamia' comment made earlier. In that light... The MGT at least has the transverse mounted engine and extruded frame though (which differenciate it from the Maxx). The TNX is basicaly an improved copy (longer wheelbase, stronger bulkheads...) of a TMaxx. The ONLY area where it realy deviates from the TMaxx is the lack of pivot balls (and Tamiya has a kit to add them for racing).

You must have read A LOT more into my first post (while at the same time missing it's point). BTW-Traxxas's engineers did address the issues that've come up with the Maxx family, their solution was the REVO. We'll soon see no doubt whether the latest fixes to the Maxx family (revo gearbox, strengthened bulkheads...) do the trick as well...

[metalry101]

No, more torque is better. (or lots and lots of revs)
Well yes...but generally speaking, bigger engines have more torque than smaller engines, which is what I was implying. Technically, if the torque is there, the size doesn't need to be, but as of yet, I haven't found an engine that develops big block torque without big block size. If someone figures out how to get big torque out of a small engine, without sacrificing the other great things of a big block (ease of tuning compared to extreme small blocks, cooler running (usually), and just overall durability, then I'll be first in line to get it. Right now, engineers can squeeze lotsa power and torque out of small blocks, but only a select few, and they're more expensive than a good big block, so then it's like...what's the point?

[ragamuffin]

I wonder...if I get the longer Traxxas chassis, center diff and new gearbox (when they eventually are available seperately), if I could transfer the other componants over from my 2.5 Revo?

[synapse75]

Well yes...but generally speaking, bigger engines have more torque than smaller engines, which is what I was implying. Technically, if the torque is there, the size doesn't need to be, but as of yet, I haven't found an engine that develops big block torque without big block size. If someone figures out how to get big torque out of a small engine, without sacrificing the other great things of a big block (ease of tuning compared to extreme small blocks, cooler running (usually), and just overall durability, then I'll be first in line to get it. Right now, engineers can squeeze lotsa power and torque out of small blocks, but only a select few, and they're more expensive than a good big block, so then it's like...what's the point?


The point is, some people think bigger is better, and some ppl will spend more money to get better quality.

Also, the initial point was, I like how Traxxas's focus has been on making things more efficient through design.

[metalry101]

What's up with that question??? Are you trying to infer from my low post count that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to RC??? Hell, you weren't even BORN in '81!!! I was running nitro powered cars then... A year after you were born I was RACING 10th scale buggies! For the record I have not driven a TNX or MGT (I have driven several Maxx's, as well as many RC's designed before and after the MAXX series such as the Revo), but have examined them closely with an EXPERIENCED eye. That certainly is enough for me to be able to make my 'layout' comment (which you agreed with FWIW). Ever owned or driven a Kyosho Wildcat or Nimitz? Ever owned or driven an RPS Yokomo SE or a Mauri Big Bear??? How about a Tamiya Frog, Hornet, Blackfoot or Hot Shot? I was running Tamiya products BEFORE you were in diapers!
After all of that ranting you must be tired. Would you like a pillow and blanket for your afternoon nap?

All joking aside, if you feel you're so much more experienced, knowledgeable, and helpful than me and everyone else on these boards younger than you, then why don't you stop wasting your time preaching to me and actually pass on some of the lessons that those years of experience have bestowed upon you. The Nitro Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=218), Electric Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=217), Monster Truck Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219), Electronics Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=331), and of course, the General Discussion Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=216) are full of people with questions you might be able to answer.

[t9dragon]

After all of that ranting you must be tired. Would you like a pillow and blanket for your afternoon nap?

All joking aside, if you feel you're so much more experienced, knowledgeable, and helpful than me and everyone else on these boards younger than you, then why don't you stop wasting your time preaching to me and actually pass on some of the lessons that those years of experience have bestowed upon you. The Nitro Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=218), Electric Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=217), Monster Truck Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219), Electronics Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=331), and of course, the General Discussion Forum (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=216) are full of people with questions you might be able to answer.


Maybe he is on those other sites and you just don't know it. :D :D

[metalry101]

The point is, some people think bigger is better, and some ppl will spend more money to get better quality.

Also, the initial point was, I like how Traxxas's focus has been on making things more efficient through design.
I see what you're saying...and agree that too many people take the oh-so-oldschool viewpoint of bigger is always better. The CEN Genesis is a perfect exampel of bigger not always being better, but the Losi LST is a perfect example of bigger really being better. It depends on what you're comparing of course...sometimes bigger is better, sometimes it's not. I believe in comparing the two items at hand and not looking at things with such a broad, basic idea of bigger is better or bigger is worse. I do see what you're saying though...but I don't agree that spending more money always gets you more quality. It may get you more of something, but that's not always quality.

I do definately agree with you on the Traxxas thing...at least to a point. I do like the fact that Traxxas actually engineers a vehicle rather than just designing it and testing it. Design and testing is only part of engineering...and it seems like it's the only part most r/c companies do. Traxxas' latest vehicles have a lot more engineering in them than most everything else on the market...and that's something I respect them for. However, sometimes that engineering just doesn't work. The Revo's tranny for instance...is NOT a step foward from the T-Maxx IMO. Opti-drive is a bunch of marketing BS, reverse just hurts performance, and the gears aren't strong enough to handle lots of power. I don't care that they're plastic, the MGT has proven that plastic geared trannies can hold up to ridiculous power and abuse...but Traxxas' trannies just don't...

The Revo's drivetrain in general just makes me laugh to be honest. They use big rims and small tires to save weight, they use huge plastic sliders to add strength, stronger diffs than the T-Maxx so it could handle more power, and then they throw in reverse, which adds weight and robs power, and then the tranny as a whole just can't take the abuse of a big block or even an O.S. .18 when driven hard. They did great until they got to the tranny...and then they dropped the ball. I know it doesn't need to be ridiculously strong because the truck is light...but come on...people are going to want to put big tires and big engines on it (some people anyways). Why not make it tough enough to handle them? Every other truck out there can, maybe at the sacrifice of a little weight and/or performance, but their drivetrains are pretty bulletproof, and if you want to race and win, what's more important, being the absolute fastest but having to drive a little conservatively to keep the truck together or being a bit slower, but knowing you can push as far as your driving skills will let you and knowing that your truck will not let you down? When it comes to the drivetrain, Traxxas seems to have chosen the first, while I would have chosen the second, as it works almost as well in racing and FAR better in bashing (which is what 98% of Revos will do the majority of the time anyways).

[metalry101]

Maybe he is on those other sites and you just don't know it. :D :D
He could be...but my point was that I don't care how old he is or how long he's been doing this...he's not going to get my respect by telling me how knowledgeable he is...he's going to get it by showing me. I would assume most other people on the board feel the same way.

I was also trying to lighten the mood a little bit...I mean how cool is it that Traxxas has finally made the Revo bigger, and put a bigger engine in it? Seriously...that's cool...we shouldn't take away from the excitement of that w/ our bickering. :D

[t9dragon]

I agree! I was in no way trying to slam you. Just trying to lighten up the conversation. I sold my Revo because I was breaking parts on it and bought a XTM Mammoth ST. But I still have a T-Maxx that has taken a beating (with minor parts breaking) and keeps on ticking.

[ososlow]

When I kill the Sirio in my Tmaxx and the 2.5 in my Jato, both trucks will be getting 3.3's :cool:
I will be buying those new bulkheads too. Shouldn't ever have to replace them then.
There is nothing wrong with the 2.5. Mine would climb hills like mad, go through deep snow no problem and even work it's way through 3 feet of grass on its last legs. The Sirio only does it faster with more wheelies now.

[thedarkness]

The Revo's tranny for instance...is NOT a step foward from the T-Maxx IMO. Opti-drive is a bunch of marketing BS, reverse just hurts performance, and the gears aren't strong enough to handle lots of power. I don't care that they're plastic, the MGT has proven that plastic geared trannies can hold up to ridiculous power and abuse...but Traxxas' trannies just don't...

The Revo's drivetrain in general just makes me laugh to be honest. They use big rims and small tires to save weight, they use huge plastic sliders to add strength, stronger diffs than the T-Maxx so it could handle more power, and then they throw in reverse, which adds weight and robs power, and then the tranny as a whole just can't take the abuse of a big block or even an O.S. .18 when driven hard. They did great until they got to the tranny...and then they dropped the ball. I know it doesn't need to be ridiculously strong because the truck is light...but come on...people are going to want to put big tires and big engines on it (some people anyways). Why not make it tough enough to handle them? Every other truck out there can, maybe at the sacrifice of a little weight and/or performance, but their drivetrains are pretty bulletproof, and if you want to race and win, what's more important, being the absolute fastest but having to drive a little conservatively to keep the truck together or being a bit slower, but knowing you can push as far as your driving skills will let you and knowing that your truck will not let you down?
My One year old 10+ gallon stock revo tranny(with foc) begs to differ with you, Ive had multiple bigblock through me truck racing at the track including:
RB s5
sh.28
Os Vzb Vspec
and finally my VZR turbo II
all running proper three shoe clutches with proper tuned pipes, Theres been a few members of this board that have seen my truck go first hand that can attest to how reliable it really is.
Then there is freez who is running the most powerfull mill currently made the nova .28 8 port and runs his truck harder than anyone short of the SMF and beverstick guys.if your not a retard and know how to drive a tranny will hold up quite well, but If you like landing wot you will have problems like any other tranny.

[Eccentric]

After all of that ranting you must be tired. Would you like a pillow and blanket for your afternoon nap?

All joking aside, if you feel you're so much more experienced, knowledgeable, and helpful than me and everyone else on these boards younger than you, then why don't you stop wasting your time preaching to me and actually pass on some of the lessons that those years of experience have bestowed upon you. The Nitro Forum, Electric Forum, Monster Truck Forum, Electronics Forum, and of course, the General Discussion Forum are full of people with questions you might be able to answer.


Look. I never said I was "so much more experienced, knowledgeable, and helpful" than you or anyone else on this board. I was RESPONDING to YOUR initial insulting post with the 'I'm smarter than you' tone. Here it is in case you forgot: (color emphasis mine)

The TNX is laid out a lot like a Maxx, as is the MGT, I'll give you that. Ever owned them, or even driven them?

You put me on the defensive by infering that I didn't know what I was talking about. I felt compelled to explain that I'm not the 'noob' that you assumed I was. You disrespected me from the onset.


That seems to be your style of posting however (sarcasm, patranizing comments, etc...) and nothing I say ('preaching') is going to change that. As far as posting in those other forums, I HAVE started to answer questions. As I know you're well aware, I've only been on this board for a short while. I've been 'passing on' info in other non-RC forums (as well as the real world-imagine that).



He could be...but my point was that I don't care how old he is or how long he's been doing this...he's not going to get my respect by telling me how knowledgeable he is...he's going to get it by showing me. I would assume most other people on the board feel the same way...

Again, I wasn't trying to impress you or anyone else. There are MANY MANY MANY folks here and elsewhere that have FAR more experience (and time on this planet) than I do. Are you saying that people only 'get your respect' by 'showing' you (I assume by quantity/quality of posts)??? If so, then the true issue is at hand...

I was taught to treat people with respect UNTIL THEY GAVE ME A REASON NOT TO. Sort of a variation of 'innocent until proven guilty'. You seem to go the opposite way. You DISRESPECT people until the've convinced you that they should be respected (by post volume and quality). That's bass-ackwards...


-Eccentric

[ron1431]

wow all the arguments. all im hoping is that this engine is better then the 2.5 ( hope nobody flames me). but im confused which class this would run in. is it big block or small block? is it truggy or truck? with the new center diff must people say that the diffrence between the two is the center diff. :confused

[Ball Racing]

Wow, bought a mammoth because of parts breaking on the revo?
Hows that Xtm doing?

[Eccentric]

wow all the arguments. all im hoping is that this engine is better then the 2.5 ( hope nobody flames me). but im confused which class this would run in. is it big block or small block is it truggy or truck :confused:


That's a darn good question...

If they intended it to race in the SB class (.12 to .18) then they should have made it a .18 instead of a .20. Since it's now in the BB class (.15-.28) then they could have made it a .28. Of course they may believe that most racers will replace the engine anyways (at the same time that they do the FOC and dump the e-start) and will either go bigger or smaller depending on what class they want to run (while bashers run the 3.3). Of course, if that's the thinking then they could just release a 'roller' kit version without radio or engine (as has been lamented 1000 times before). Time will tell...



-Eccentric

[smaxxjames]

That's a darn good question...

If they intended it to race in the SB class (.18 and smaller) then they should have made it a .18 instead of a .20. Since it's now in the BB class (.18-.28) then they could have made it a .28. Of course they may believe that most racers will replace the engine anyways (at the same time that they do the FOC and dump the e-start) and will either go bigger or smaller depending on what class they want to run (while bashers run the 3.3). Of course, if that's the thinking then they could just release a 'roller' kit version without radio or engine (as has been lamented 1000 times before). Time will tell...



-Eccentric

It all depends on where you are racing. Read this

http://www.rcproseries.com/rules/index.php

[Eccentric]

It all depends on where you are racing. Read this

http://www.rcproseries.com/rules/index.php

That's true. The RCPro rules make sense, using a weight handicap for bigger engines. The ROAR rules still go by displacement don't they? Time to inquire with the local tracks as to which rules their stickin' with...

[Platymeris]

well if thier claiming it's a .20 it would be classified as a Big Block at my Local track..
So your local track doesn't take an engine's block size into account when classifying it as a big block or a small block? The physical size of an engine and it's displacement are not directly related, this is just a larger displacement small block design. Pico even makes a .26ci small block. (http://www.ofna.com/eng-picco-26max.html) I understand that a lot of tracks go by displacement alone, but that ignores all the other factors that affect the performance of a vehicle, especially engine weight in this case.

[Platymeris]

NOW I might buy a Revo. That's impressive stuff. I still don't want anything to do w/ the electronics, and it still needs the extended rear arms...but that's an impressive revamp. Nice job Traxxas.

As for the T-Maxx...

I know why they still make it, because they still sell like mad, and they still make a ton of money on them, but come on people, stop buying that garbage. Reject everything T-Maxx so that Traxxas will stop making it. Please.

When I got my T-Maxx in 1999, it was by far the best and most advanced nitro RTR monster truck on the market, it was the first one to even have reverse, and the much copied suspension design was like nothing else. Of course 7 years later, after every other major manufacturer has decided to take their share of the same market it's not still going to be at the top, but it's certainly not garbage. Not to mention that there are entire companies that wouldn't even exist without the T-Maxx, you could probably order enough aftermarket parts to build 50 completely different T-Maxxes from scratch if you wanted to, without ever buying one from Traxxas. It was the single biggest factor in making the nitro RTR what it is today, and a lot of these other companies are riding on that success. That said, the only RTR monster truck I'd really like currently is the LST2, even this more powerful Revo doesn't really sway me, especially since it still has the same radio.

[smaxxjames]

This is the problem with all the tracks I race at. Its either Truggy, if there are enough, or it's just monster truck. I have yet to see any consistancy at my tracks. i race an 18 TM against .28s and .30s.

[t9dragon]

Wow, bought a mammoth because of parts breaking on the revo?
Hows that Xtm doing?

It's been running great only broke a front a-arm. :)

[snowboardgeek1]

What people seem to forget, its not all about power. Its all about power to weight ratio. This is where the Revo shines compared to other monster trucks. Although we don't have the torque numbers compared to big block engines, who cares. My stock Revo can spank the pants off a Savage .25, 4.6 SS, Monster GT 4.6, etc. Its been proven time and time again. Big block engines (.25 and above) are useless in my opinion. I could care less about wheelies. What's the point of having all that power, and not putting it on the ground? Even a Revo with an RB 323TM will spank pretty much any truck out there with a big block. All the top racers in the RC Pro series, run Revo's. Whenever I go to Sun Valley's racetrack, the top monster truck racers are rockin' Revo's. That should tell you something.

And if you're wondering I'm being biased, I'm not. I have owned the following Monster Trucks as well as a ton of other RC's: (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=212127)

Savage w/ a Picco .26 - lots of hopups
Monster GT 4.6 - Way too heavy stock. Didn't like the power at all.
TMaxx .15 - Horrible truck. Nuff said.
Revo w/ RB 323 - Very fast
Revo w/ OS 18TM - Perfect combination for a track.

I've owned TWO Revo's. Sold one to concentrate on building up the ultimate Race Revo. It would take a TON of hopups on the other monster trucks, to make them compete with a STOCK Revo at the track.

The new Revo 3.3...Traxxas has just taken the Revo to another level that other Monster Trucks will aspire to reach. Good job to Traxxas. I'm interested to see the TRX 3.3 engine specs. If it's a stronger engine overall vs. my OS 18TM, I'll be buying the 3.3.

[Dirt King]

This is pretty cool. More torque for the revo. I'd really like to see an E-revo though. I love the truck but it would be nice to have one you could run around in the yard and not have the neighbors yell at you.

[sugs]

I'm a little amazed that everyone is talking about the motor so much. You've been able to get a bigger motor for the Revo or Maxx for a while now. I'm much more interested in the chassis and transmission changes for the Revo. It looks to me like Traxxas is moving the Revo up in size to better compete with all the new 1/8 stadium trucks that are out now. I never bought a Revo because I always felt right from the start that the wheelbase was too short for racing. Now we have a Revo with a longer wheelbase and a center diff option. Now I'm interested!

[thedarkness]

When I got my T-Maxx in 1999, it was by far the best and most advanced nitro RTR monster truck on the market, it was the first one to even have reverse, and the much copied suspension design was like nothing else..
You sure about that because the QRC kyoshos have been around allot longer than the maxx, the maxx was the first nitro rc with reverse and a brake, not reverse.

[metalry101]

When I got my T-Maxx in 1999, it was by far the best and most advanced nitro RTR monster truck on the market, it was the first one to even have reverse, and the much copied suspension design was like nothing else. Of course 7 years later, after every other major manufacturer has decided to take their share of the same market it's not still going to be at the top, but it's certainly not garbage. Not to mention that there are entire companies that wouldn't even exist without the T-Maxx, you could probably order enough aftermarket parts to build 50 completely different T-Maxxes from scratch if you wanted to, without ever buying one from Traxxas. It was the single biggest factor in making the nitro RTR what it is today, and a lot of these other companies are riding on that success. That said, the only RTR monster truck I'd really like currently is the LST2, even this more powerful Revo doesn't really sway me, especially since it still has the same radio.
I totally agree that the T-Maxx absolutely rocked when it came out, but it's not that time anymore...it's time for the T-Maxx to go away IMO. I realize that it still has potential, but why buy an inferior truck and try to play catch up to every other truck on the market today? Yes, when it came out, it was incredible, I agree 110%, but that time has passed, don't you think? Chevy doesn't sell their 1995 Lumina alongside the 2006 Impala, do they? Of course not, it would be ridiculous. Why does Traxxas do that with r/c cars? The Stampede and Rustler I understand...they're still great beginner vehicles at a great price, but the T-Maxx???

[Freedom]

I totally agree that the T-Maxx absolutely rocked when it came out, but it's not that time anymore...it's time for the T-Maxx to go away IMO. I realize that it still has potential, but why buy an inferior truck and try to play catch up to every other truck on the market today? Yes, when it came out, it was incredible, I agree 110%, but that time has passed, don't you think? Chevy doesn't sell their 1995 Lumina alongside the 2006 Impala, do they? Of course not, it would be ridiculous. Why does Traxxas do that with r/c cars? The Stampede and Rustler I understand...they're still great beginner vehicles at a great price, but the T-Maxx???

The T-Maxx is a cheap alternative, and as far as being obsolete, the newbies who would be buying them wouldn't know the difference. The plastic wheelie bar is all that is needed to sell to them, catch my drift.

[1BAD79]

does anyone know how much the t-maxx 3.3 is going to cost?

[kawasakirider]

It shouldnt' cost more than the current t-maxx i can't imagine the new revo being any more and if they made the t-maxx the same price as the old revo no one will buy it.


Trent

[synapse75]

It shouldnt' cost more than the current t-maxx i can't imagine the new revo being any more and if they made the t-maxx the same price as the old revo no one will buy it.


Trent


MSRP (what a joke, but anyways)
Revo 3.3 - 960
Revo - - - 900
Tmx 3.3 - 860
Tmx 2.5R 800
Tmx - - - 725
Jato - - - 650

[4wdmt]

They are now at Tower Hobbies "Just Announced" items.

Revo 3.3R - $531.99 (order pending)
T-Maxx 3.3R - $481.99 (on order)
T-Maxx 2.5R - $447.99 (order pending)

[MikeWz]

Why does Traxxas do that with r/c cars? The Stampede and Rustler I understand...they're still great beginner vehicles at a great price, but the T-Maxx???

Well the Rustler is in a different category...but I honestly feel like if they're going to have a beginner truck they should ditch the Stampede and make it the T-maxx. The Stampede is just a stadium truck with oversized wheels and a terrible chassis.

The big problem with the T-maxx (or any traxxas truck with maybe the except of the revo) is parts breakage. I had a T-maxx shortly after they were released and I really had nothing but problems with it. The terrible Pro .15 is kind of a mut point here, but the problem is they didn't reallyk do too much with the 2.5 except make it more powerful. The problem is...some of the scream, and some of the them are terrible. They need to make the production more consistant...and either way they need to put a functional cooling head on that motor because it's terrible. The way have the diffs being held in is really stupid. Break a bumper/skid plate and now your bulkheads can move around. YAY! I went through 2 diffs because the bulkheads were able to move. The stock shocks were pretty terrible too, which is why they had to market the bigbores so much. On the street they were fine, but if you did any kind of real off-roading you say they were a weak link

I feel as a beginners truck, sure a new guy wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a T-maxx, an MGT and a Savage...but once he started breaking parts he'd be awfully unhappy

[mrgrinsters]

i do have a revo i like the electronics in it and i also have a .26 while still using the easy start gotta love the revo but i am going to get the 3.3 for my jato.

[SquirrelNutz]

ok....lets analyze this a little becuase I really have to ask 'is the new revo worth it?'

sell your 2.5 revo and upgrade to a 3.3!!!!! Who cares!!!!

1- its still a small block engine!!!
2- 60% more power???? i have seen two specs on the trx 2.5. One is 1hp and the other is 1.3 hp. either way, its a monster truck with a engine of less than, or equal to, 2 hp.
3- is there another increase in performance since traxxas is claiming 2 to 3 more mph on the revo??? no, not the engine. they put a wide gear kit in the tranny for the extra speed. that is a $7 upgrade folks
4- 30 extra mm chasis. a longer chasis means a longer drive shaft and new body. everything else is the same.
5-$130 for a new 3.3 engine??? Get a OS .18 and be race (not rtr, but on a track, engine wise, ready) for 40 more bucks and have a better warranty. for 100 more you can get a drop in engine that will match the rpm and gain alot more hp. there are other variations as well where you can improve on both rpm and hp.

I could go on, I can. But, I just do not see where the hype in this is. I own a revo and a Jato. I practically own a tmaxx as well since I am always fixing a friends. I like traxxas and think that their trucks are great. but, traxxas falls short on expectations left and right. Its nice to see them trying to put more space between the savage and teh revo. i just think that traxxas is out of touch with the market when it comes to engines but in touch with what people want when it comes to trucks. if they could come out with a trx big block then they might have something. till then.... this is another sad dissapointing engine for me from traxxas.

im not convinced that a extra 30mm will improve my current revo. i firmly believe that nothing stock is great.you always have to improve upon stock for your own personal tastes. this is just a re-issue with nothing new to offer to me, my own opinion and .02

[leemaxx]

i firmly believe that nothing stock is great.you always have to improve upon stock for your own personal tastes. this is just a re-issue with nothing new to offer to me, my own opinion and .02

Word!!!!!!! I love my Tmaxx, but after dumping over $1000 into it, to sell it to buy a 3.3 maxx would be ludicrous. I would never get that back out of it. Thats not the point though. This is my hobby and I love building and Hopping up my trucks. So to buy the latest and greatest is some what pointless because there will always be something better. Its no different than a real car. What would you rather have a 65 mustang or an 05 mustang? I would go for the 65( after-market baby...crate motor etc...oh ya!) even-though its way inferior to the 05. Now I will probably add the 3.3, the optidrive and revo spec drive line. And as for the Tmaxx being obsolete I don't think so. Thats what the after-market is for. I mean who keeps any R/C stock? The Tmaxx out of the box is or was obsolete, but every thing will be in 6 months to a year. The Tmaxx is a great truck period. Now its just way better. Sorry for the rant. I just don't understand why people have to always compare apple to oranges. Comparing any quality truck to another is like the old mustang vs camero debat......pointless. So give it up to Traxxas for innovation and a quality product or any other company of that matter that strives for the advancement of the industry HPI, Team Losi, Associated, Kyosho, Tamiya, Airtronics, Futaba, Hitec just to name a few :D

Thanks
Lee

[Kevin M]

i am not sure i will ever buy any traxxas engines again after my last experience with the 2.5. i really dont think i can do it. i spent 1 year tuning my 2.5, then i start it up and it will run for 1 minute and stall. On the other hand, i bought a schumacher menace and i cannot remember any time that the thunder tiger engine has ever run bad.

[timberwolf211]

So when is Traxxas gonna start making their radios in 75mhz range so more than 6 of them can race? They would be doing themselves a favor by including this.

[SquirrelNutz]

^^^I like to get synthesized recievers like the novak. I also use a 3pk where I can change frequency modules on my transmitter and the turn a screw on the reciever to race on a different freq. it would be nice to have a reciver like that come with them since the novaks are 60 to 70 bucks a pop.

[RCMadMatt]

I like how people whined about the Tmaxx's weaknesses, and now that Traxxas has done something about it, they are still whining. Since it's pretty obvious (to most anyway) that Traxxas is not going to kill off the Tmaxx, bashing it is fairly pointless.

Matt

[timberwolf211]

But not everyone who owns a RC wants to race it. I do enjoy racing my RC's but I still have more fun bashing.

[Platymeris]

You sure about that because the QRC kyoshos have been around allot longer than the maxx, the maxx was the first nitro rc with reverse and a brake, not reverse.
True, I forgot about those, but a Nitro RC without a brake, using reverse to serve as a brake is pretty primative by comparison. The T-Maxx was still revolutionary.

[thedarkness]

Im not taking that away from you just pointing out a little know fact, the QRC is a joke nitro with no brake is just asking for trouble or stripped gears when you throw it into reverse thinking that forward on the stick or trigger is brake.

[cody05]

Does anyone have a 3.3 yet?

[thedarkness]

A couple of people that are assosated with traxxxas someway are the only people I know of that have one.

[mad-quick]

and yet no up date to the diffs and R&P gears lol TRAXXAS WHAT A JOKE THEY DID NOT FIX ANYTHING,,,MORE POWER AND THE BIGGEST PROB. IS THE DIFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[cody05]

and yet no up date to the diffs and R&P gears lol TRAXXAS WHAT A JOKE THEY DID NOT FIX ANYTHING,,,MORE POWER AND THE BIGGEST PROB. IS THE DIFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Whats wrong with the diffs? i haven't had a problem just they need to be sealed cause they get dirty to fast badly

[MikeWz]

I like how people whined about the Tmaxx's weaknesses, and now that Traxxas has done something about it, they are still whining. Since it's pretty obvious (to most anyway) that Traxxas is not going to kill off the Tmaxx, bashing it is fairly pointless.

Matt

What did they fix? They gave you a more powerful motor and wider suspension. Wooo! No how about a more consistant production of the motor so that everyone has a good motor, not that some of them are utterly impossible to tune. Then you have the fact that the only thing really holding the bulkheads in place are the screws that go into the bumper/skid plate. When those break the bulkheads move. When the bulkheads move, when the bulkheads move the diff moves, and when the diff can move it's real easy to blow diffs. I killed two within the two years I had my Maxx. Their plastic is pretty weak too. Have you ever noticed that there are more aluminum T-maxx then there are other monster trucks combined? It's not because the aftermarket is bigger, because you can every part for 99% of the monster trucks out there in aluminum if you so desire. It's because the parts break!

I also wished they fixed the tranny. At the end of my second motor (about 12-13 gallons total, the tranny got REAL sloppy. It was shifting real hard and the shift point was moving around considerably more often then it had in the beginning. Not on any other truck that I've owned have I had that problem.

[NitroTXT1]

traxxas does well everytime they release something:
Rustler-Great RTR can be race ready with right mods
T-Maxx truck of the year, state of the art at the time
2.5(R)-Best RTR engine of the year hands down
Revo-Another Great truck of it's time which is now
3.3- I am sure it'll break records as well and it already outperforms the trx 2.5 by 60% or so they say

Traxxas may not be the best but it's far from the worst...any way i may get a 3.3 for my maxx and send it out to have it modded for even more hp

Another thing people want traxxas to do all these things for them like upgraded radio,large motors,and all this stuff...but then the next thing would be oh it's too much or o i'd rather put my own stuff...i just think if you don't like traxxas don't post, if you're not interested don't post...NOT TO AFFEND ANYONE

[RCMadMatt]

@MikeWz
They did update the 2.5R/3.3 Tmaxx, not the "standard" 'Maxx. The 2.5R/3.3 have the strengthened bulkheadsand diff housings, and the new Revo-style transmissions and driveline. The "standard" Tmaxx does get the strengthened bulkheads.That answers all your questions doesn't it?

Matt

[Racing t]

I think the prices on the new trucks on tower are a little high, but hopofully they will drop when they come out.

[SerpentKing101]

tower says there in stock...hmm...

if only I had a credit card...

[Nitro 4 me]

I just ordered one and I'll see for myself whats "improved"

[NitroTXT1]

i just need the motor for my t-maxx which is going to get a nice overhaul real soon...i am talking light weight extended chassis and all the good stufff

[MikeWz]

@MikeWz
They did update the 2.5R/3.3 Tmaxx, not the "standard" 'Maxx. The 2.5R/3.3 have the strengthened bulkheadsand diff housings, and the new Revo-style transmissions and driveline. The "standard" Tmaxx does get the strengthened bulkheads.That answers all your questions doesn't it?

Matt

So the new one has the Revo transmission? Well at least that's one improvement. However, it wasn't the strength of the bulkheads that was ever a problem. It was always how they were mounted. If you break a skid the bulkheads are able to move which then allows the diffs to flex. If they strengthened the casing that's just delaying the inevitable. You can strengthen the gears all you want but when you're doing 20-30 MPH and that thing is flexing it doesn't really matter what they're made out of, they can definitely break

[ducati777]

Hmmm 3.3 eh? Where's the 3.3 4-tec then?

[RCMadMatt]

So the new one has the Revo transmission? Well at least that's one improvement. However, it wasn't the strength of the bulkheads that was ever a problem. It was always how they were mounted. If you break a skid the bulkheads are able to move which then allows the diffs to flex. If they strengthened the casing that's just delaying the inevitable. You can strengthen the gears all you want but when you're doing 20-30 MPH and that thing is flexing it doesn't really matter what they're made out of, they can definitely break
I just got a look at a 3.3 Tmaxx today at the store, and it's pretty nice! A lot of changes to be sure. While it's not the Revo transmission (didn't have a Revo to compare it to), it is a different case made from the new plastic (think Revo suspension rocker gray plastic). The skids and bulkheads are also the new style plastic, so they should be pretty tough now. Since the stock gray rockers on a Revo are pretty tough, the changes they made to the 2.5R/3.3 Tmaxx plastic should increase the durability. Time will tell.
3.3 4-Tec? Yikes! :eek:

Matt

[ducklake1]

$482 for the new T is too much, the new Savage X is only $450.

[RCSavage]

I agree the T-maxx is a little over priced. I like the Revo though.

[ososlow]

So the new one has the Revo transmission? Well at least that's one improvement. However, it wasn't the strength of the bulkheads that was ever a problem. It was always how they were mounted. If you break a skid the bulkheads are able to move which then allows the diffs to flex. If they strengthened the casing that's just delaying the inevitable. You can strengthen the gears all you want but when you're doing 20-30 MPH and that thing is flexing it doesn't really matter what they're made out of, they can definitely break
Having diff movement with a broke skid plate wouldn't be a problem if you have the steel support installed. I have yet to bust a skid beyond the bulkheads. I could see it being a problem if you somehow manage to bust the section that mounts to the center of the truck. If you bust enough parts to have the diffs wander you should stop and replace them.

I payed around $500us for my 2.5 maxx 3 years ago. If I was in the market to buy another, I wouldn't think twice about it. Its a great truck that is super easy to work on with cheap replacement parts. Whats not to like about it.

[z1nonly96950]

What's the deal with calling out for a big block? What's wrong with the smallblock? IMHO, a big block will just upset the balance of the truck. A friend and I converted his TNX to a BB. Before we did the conversion, the truck handled great. One of the top 3 at where we race.

When the conversion was done, we ran her to see how she performed. I must say that it was great to see that thing accelerate down the straights. Freakin fast and could clear the jumps easily. AAMOF, over shoot some them. BTW, it was Hyper 21 8 port.

The only problem was that it was terrible in the turns. The wheels would point into the direction of the turn but the truck just wanted to keep going straight. The cornering ability just wasn't pleasing. It was better off with the SB.

We race BB with SB in the same class, and the BB don't show any impressive laptimes over the SB.

Here's how I see it:
*If you go BB, shave time in the straights and jumps but lose time in the corners/turns.
*If you go SB, shave time in the corners/turns. Lose time in the straights and jumps. But if you have a wicked SB like a TM or TZ, I'd say it evens out with the BB in the jumps and straights.

I personally think that its better off with the SB. Light, better balance, longer runtimes with less fuel.

Just my 2 pesos. :D

I almost forgot to mention that Traxxas has just raised the standards in STD MT. I am a DIEHARD TNX fan, but that Revo 3.3 is making me wanna sell my TNX. Great job Traxxas.

[cody05]

tower says there in stock...hmm...

if only I had a credit card...
print the order form online out and then send the money with it lol if u dont have a creidt card

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

give it a new body, give it a longer chasis....heck....give it a new trx 3.3 engine; it just doesnt matter.

Traxxas- STOP PUTTING A SMALL BLOCK ENGINE IN A MONSTER TRUCK!!!!!!

So the 3.3 is what? a .18 or .20 engine? everyone else is putting a .27 in their trucks? While a revo with a .18/20 is impressive I think that I would take a OS any day over the trx.

I have a Revo. I love it to death. I just think that traxxas needs to learn what a big block engine could do for them.

I bought a 2.5R T-Maxx and a Savage .25RTR on the same day from the same LHS. I put the dual disk stainless steel brakes and the 3 speed tranny in the Savage before I ever drove it on the street. I broke in the T-Max using the five tank method listed in the owner's manaul and used the heat sink method for the Savage. I run both engines at 260-265*F with outside air temp of 55*F and 72% humidty. The T-Maxx now has 9 tanks on it and the Savage has 3. Without question, even with the 3 speed, the Maxx will out run the Savage. The Maxx will wheelie out of turns and the torque of the will lift the inside tire all day long. The Savage has a lot more grunt, pulling strength and out jumps the Maxx, but the Maxx is much more of a racer then the Savage. I have no doubts that the Savage is still loosing up, it wouldn't even roll down hill until after it had gone through the second tank, but for now my Maxx with its 2 speed .18 small block will kick my Savage's 3 speed .25 big block all over the road.

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

Performs better where? I'll relate the Traxxas 2.5 to a real automotive engine, so that you can see why I don't care for it.

The Traxxas 2.5 is like the turbo 4 cylinder in a Mitsubishi Evo 9, it's got insane power, as much power as a decent V8 in a pickup truck (Chevy's 5.3 for instance). However, it doesn't have the right powerband. There's a reason Chevy doesn't put a turbo 4 in their trucks, quite apart from the fact that Chevy couldn't make a decent turbo 4. They don't put them in there because they don't have the powerband for a work truck. They have no bottom end, they don't pull at all until you get them into the upper half of their rpm range. The 2.5 is the same way. It's fine on flat ground, it's great for small, light duty rigs like the Jato or Nitro 4-Tec. It doesn't fair so well in a T-Maxx or a Revo when you're bashing it. Racetracks are flat, and don't have grass, mud, snow, or anything else in the way, so the Revo does fine there, but put it in tall grass, or mud, or snow, and the truck barely moves as the engine bogs and overheats. All that power doesn't do you any good if it doesn't have the torque to pull itself, and the truck it's bolted to, to that point in the powerband. I'm not knocking the power. I'm knocking the powerband. It doesn't work in a monster truck when the thing is actually used like a monster truck. Period.

As for this 3.3...I'm excited to see what it can do. It should have a lot more bottom end, if for nothing else, it's 33% bigger than the 2.5. Bigger engines inherently have more torque. I'd rather see a mild big block, as it'd have more torque still, and be far easier to tune and less finicky...but I'll give Traxxas credit for at least listening to their customers for once and putting in a bigger engine for those of us who need torque for bashing.

First of all GM made a great turbo 4 cylinder turbocharged engine called the Quad Four that still holds the land speed closed circuit MPH record. Their only mistake was, instead of building a new platform for it, they put it into an Oldsmobile. As for not using turbos in trucks, I guess you were not around for the GM Typhoon or Chevy’s Cyclone? Both of these were the fastest production vehicles from 1990 thru 1994 (Yes, even faster in the ¼ mile then the vette.). They also had enough towing power to tow 6500lbs all day long (My Bayliner weighed in at 4700 with trailer and my Typhoon would pull it along at 75MPH with power to spare and still get 22MPG highway.). Now for a little racers secret, with all else being equal, when given the same amount of HP/TQ a small block will always out perform a big block. The truth in this statement can be found in the performance difference between the 427 small block Chevy and the 427 big block Chevy. The answer to why is found in the weight of the recuperating mass and size of the stroke, big bore/short stroke equal more performance

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

There is a lot more to it then just saying that torque is king. You can all the torque in the world, but if you don’t have the gearing for it you’re not going anywhere. Look at the typical diesel engine, gobs of bottom end torque but without the right gearing it just crawls. Big blocks that bring on tons of low end torque typically do so by sacrificing top end RPMS. This is why you’ll find higher gear ratios on big block rigs. So the final truth becomes you need to look at the whole picture and not just the girl with the pretty face.

I see many people talking about how they dropped in a big block this or that into the stock 2.5R Maxx and think it goes so much faster. The truth is that it accelerates faster, but unless that big block is pushing 42,500 RPMS (the rated top end of the 2.5R) which most are not, or you changed the gear ratios to compensate, then it is in fact some what slower then the original Maxx on the top end.

[MikeWz]

Having diff movement with a broke skid plate wouldn't be a problem if you have the steel support installed. I have yet to bust a skid beyond the bulkheads. I could see it being a problem if you somehow manage to bust the section that mounts to the center of the truck. If you bust enough parts to have the diffs wander you should stop and replace them.

I payed around $500us for my 2.5 maxx 3 years ago. If I was in the market to buy another, I wouldn't think twice about it. Its a great truck that is super easy to work on with cheap replacement parts. Whats not to like about it.

That's the thing with the T-maxx. You need to put money into it to have it run reliably. Why would you want a truck where you need to spend money on aluminum parts to have the truck strong enough? You don't really need to mash up the skid plate too much to have the diffs be able to move. Crack the skid at a few points and the screws are able to move which means the bulks can move. When they can move the diffs can flex. You don't have to jump over a building for it to happen. I don't understand why people jump right on a truck like that when you can pick up a Monster GT or a Savage for not much more...and not have to spend money on anything but fuel. Iv'e had an MGT for about 3 years now...with plenty of run time and plenty of hard bashing and I've managed to break 5 parts the entire time. The Bumper, A shock tower, a Steering Knuckle, an A-arm and a fuel tank. 2 of them were in cold weather. Here's the kind of stupid bashing I do with my truck

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/MikeWz/Monster%20GT/b78366a6.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/MikeWz/Monster%20GT/MGAirage.jpg

I'm not trying to brag about my truck or anything, I dont' want to come across that way. I'm just trying to show that I'm not running it off the curbs on my block. The T-maxx just couldn't handle this kind of bashing. It's unfortunate because it was a giant break though...but it's just fallen behind and I feel like traxxas is trying to play catch-up by offering it with a bigger motor. That may attract the new comers, but they're the ones that need an extremely reliable and easy to tune motor....which many can attest that the TRX motors aren't.

[otec465]

Well yes...but generally speaking, bigger engines have more torque than smaller engines, which is what I was implying. Technically, if the torque is there, the size doesn't need to be, but as of yet, I haven't found an engine that develops big block torque without big block size. If someone figures out how to get big torque out of a small engine, without sacrificing the other great things of a big block (ease of tuning compared to extreme small blocks, cooler running (usually), and just overall durability, then I'll be first in line to get it. Right now, engineers can squeeze lotsa power and torque out of small blocks, but only a select few, and they're more expensive than a good big block, so then it's like...what's the point?


on the same hand to much torque is bad to if not as stated before in the 'right' powerband

[67f100StPro]

I bought a 2.5R T-Maxx and a Savage .25RTR on the same day from the same LHS. I put the dual disk stainless steel brakes and the 3 speed tranny in the Savage before I ever drove it on the street. I broke in the T-Max using the five tank method listed in the owner's manaul and used the heat sink method for the Savage. I run both engines at 260-265*F with outside air temp of 55*F and 72% humidty. The T-Maxx now has 9 tanks on it and the Savage has 3. Without question, even with the 3 speed, the Maxx will out run the Savage. The Maxx will wheelie out of turns and the torque of the will lift the inside tire all day long. The Savage has a lot more grunt, pulling strength and out jumps the Maxx, but the Maxx is much more of a racer then the Savage. I have no doubts that the Savage is still loosing up, it wouldn't even roll down hill until after it had gone through the second tank, but for now my Maxx with its 2 speed .18 small block will kick my Savage's 3 speed .25 big block all over the road.

It's not real good to tune for a specific temp. Big blocks tend to take up to a gallon before they are fully broken in. Get them both broken in well and tuned for peak performance and race again.

[MikeWz]

I bought a 2.5R T-Maxx and a Savage .25RTR on the same day from the same LHS. I put the dual disk stainless steel brakes and the 3 speed tranny in the Savage before I ever drove it on the street. I broke in the T-Max using the five tank method listed in the owner's manaul and used the heat sink method for the Savage. I run both engines at 260-265*F with outside air temp of 55*F and 72% humidty. The T-Maxx now has 9 tanks on it and the Savage has 3. Without question, even with the 3 speed, the Maxx will out run the Savage. The Maxx will wheelie out of turns and the torque of the will lift the inside tire all day long. The Savage has a lot more grunt, pulling strength and out jumps the Maxx, but the Maxx is much more of a racer then the Savage. I have no doubts that the Savage is still loosing up, it wouldn't even roll down hill until after it had gone through the second tank, but for now my Maxx with its 2 speed .18 small block will kick my Savage's 3 speed .25 big block all over the road.

The fact that your T-maxx will beat the Savage has much more to do with weight than it does with motor power. You can't really compare a T-maxx to a Savage. The T-maxx is a smaller, more nimble truck than the oversized 13 pound Savage of course it's going to be faster. The reason the T-maxx can so easily pull a wheelie isn't because the TRX is huge on torque or anything...because it's far from it, it's because of light weight, and the short wheel base. At 19" compared to 21" And under 9lbs compared to slightly over 13lbs...The maxx has a huge advantage...and you're comparing an almost completely broken in engine to one that's not even close. You shouldn't have really started to move the needle from factory break-in settings yet, maybe 1/8th of a turn or so but that's really it.

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

It's not real good to tune for a specific temp. Big blocks tend to take up to a gallon before they are fully broken in. Get them both broken in well and tuned for peak performance and race again.


I didn't set them up to run at any specific temp. But, the fact that both of them were/are running the same temp on the same day at the same time shows that both were running the same air/fuel mixture. This also means that both engines had the same potential for work (to develop horsepower) from the same amount of fuel. Given this then the only limits to each MTs potential: were: how much fuel each engine could pump through its cylinder and parasitic waste due to weight and internal drag. You mention that the Savage weighs in at 13lbs, but you forget that it also makes 2.5hp or 5.2lbs per HP. Depending on who you talk to the T-Maxx has between 1.1 and 1.33 HP and it weighs in at 7.LBS or 5.3 lbs @1.33 HP. This explains why, when tuned at the same level, they will each have the same potential for work (in this case performance) with the limiting factor being parasitic waste. Like I said my Savage only has 3 tanks on it and it is still very tight (Remember that I said it wouldn’t roll down hill until it was half way through the third tank.). I have no doubt that it still has potential but it also has more parasitic loss through the drive train then the T-Maxx. BTW when both engines were new it was my Maxx that was so tight that I had to use a heat gun to get it to turn over. The Savage on the other hand was loose enough that all I needed to do was to add fuel and start it.

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

The fact that your T-maxx will beat the Savage has much more to do with weight than it does with motor power. You can't really compare a T-maxx to a Savage. The T-maxx is a smaller, more nimble truck than the oversized 13 pound Savage of course it's going to be faster.

Read above, they have a near identical power to weight ratio.


The reason the T-maxx can so easily pull a wheelie isn't because the TRX is huge on torque or anything...because it's far from it, it's because of light weight, and the short wheel base. At 19" compared to 21" And under 9lbs compared to slightly over 13lbs...

I don't know where you get the 9lbs number. I weighed mine in at 7.2lbs empty. But let's say your figures are right then with only 1.33HP the Maxx should be at a disadvantage with 6.8lbs per HP compared to the Savage’s 5.2lbs per HP. Also the 2” difference in length equals less then a 10% difference in leverage. When figuring the ratios of mechanical advantage the Savage wins. Oh and BTW my Maxx has aluminum frame rails, skid plates, bumpers and bumper mounts, and a full metal roll cage all of which greatly increased its weight. The only upgrade the Savage has is a full metal cage.

The maxx has a huge advantage... . I think I showed this not to be true

and you're comparing an almost completely broken in engine to one that's not even close. You shouldn't have really started to move the needle from factory break-in settings yet, maybe 1/8th of a turn or so but that's really it.

The maxx only has 7 tanks on it and I pretty much doubt it is fully broken in. It still performs better with each new tank I broke in the Savage using the heat cycle method. If you haven’t heard of it do a search for it on here and you’ll see it is a proven method for breaking in engines. Nevertheless (yes, nevertheless is just one word) I mentioned that the Savage was still tight and needed more time to loosen up. But, if its present level of performance is any measure as to its full potential then the Mass will be the faster of the two even after they are both completely broken in.

[MikeWz]

Yes, I've read on the heat cycle...however according to, I believe it was Josh Cyrul who did the article awhile back, you're still supposed to be rich throughout the period.
If you're talking about a .25 Savage, the motor is rated at 2.5HP, and that would make it 5.2lbs per HP and the T-maxx at 5.4, so I suppose either way that was incorret...but 2" length makes a pretty significant difference as well. It brings a fair amount of weight farther forward on the truck. That would explain why it's almost impossible to pull the front wheels off the ground much on the 22" Monster GT (.21) yet with the taller geared Savage .21RTR at 21" you were able to lift the front wheels off the ground.
And I definitely could be wrong...but I don't think it's correct to say that just because two completely different engines on two completely different trucks running the same temperatures are running the same exact fuel mix. You have to account for the size of the cooling head (and the fact that the one on the T-maxx doesn't really do too much...unless they changed in the (R) version). And BB motors always run higher temps then smaller motors. All .12/.15 (a .18 would be included because it's the same size) just happen to be happiest at about 220-240 degrees depending on the weight of the truck it was pulling and how it was geared. I've found most BBs run best at around 280ish. This isn't tuning for temps, this is tuning for performance and then checking for heat to make sure everything is getting the air it needs and to make sure there isn't any extra strain somewhere causing the motor to get hot.

[ChuckDeez]

I have a Tmaxx 2.5 and already selling it on ebay and I had it for a month only. I already ordered a Tmaxx 3.3. I want to see the difference and I hope its alot better.

[NPlayer]

You can view the exploded parts diagrams for the new 3.3 revo and maxx. You can see what they've changed.

[ChuckDeez]

what do you think is better?

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

Yes, I've read on the heat cycle...however according to, I believe it was Josh Cyrul who did the article awhile back, you're still supposed to be rich throughout the period.

Yes, you are suppose to be rich, but not so rich that the engine will not come up to its opertional range. Also, the heat cycle method calls for running the engine to above 190* for 15 minutes, then a cool off period back to room temp, then three cycles of 5 minutes at opertioanl temp (above 210*) with cool downs between each cycle. Then you tune for performance. So, yes I did break in the engine according to their instructions.

If you're talking about a .25 Savage, the motor is rated at 2.5HP, and that would make it 5.2lbs per HP and the T-maxx at 5.4, so I suppose either way that was incorret..

Thanks for admitting this...I did say that I have the .25 Savage RTR in my post.

..but 2" length makes a pretty significant difference as well. It brings a fair amount of weight farther forward on the truck. That would explain why it's almost impossible to pull the front wheels off the ground much on the 22" Monster GT (.21) yet with the taller geared Savage .21RTR at 21" you were able to lift the front wheels off the ground...

The reality of it is that chassis length has less to do with pulling wheelies then you are giving it credit for. What gets the wheels up in the air are torque and weight distribution. The When you look at the X axis (wheel nut to wheel nut on one side) center line of the Maxx it puts most of its weight to the rear and center. When you look at it along the Y axis (the height of the truck) 95% of its weight is above the center of the rear axis and when you look along the Z axis (the width) the weight has a near 50/50 distribution. Putting the weight high on the Y axis and towards the rear on the X axis is what gives the Maxx an advantage when it comes to pulling wheelies. BTW the measurements that matter is the wheel base of both trucks as it is between this is where 90% of the vehicle’s weight is carried. The Maxx has a, when measured from wheel center to center, 12” wheel base, the Savage is 13.25”.


And I definitely could be wrong...but I don't think it's correct to say that just because two completely different engines on two completely different trucks running the same temperatures are running the same exact fuel mix. You have to account for the size of the cooling head (and the fact that the one on the T-maxx doesn't really do too much...unless they changed in the (R) version). And BB motors always run higher temps then smaller motors.

I was wondering if someone was going to comment on this misconception. The potential for work in a fuel is measured by BTHs. The heat it generates when converted from kinetic energy is the measure of the amount of work the fuel is doing. This measurement is read in heating units (F or C). This in effect eliminates the variance in measurement due to quantity. In other words the .15 engine with an overall displacement of 2.5 cc has the potential to do 70% of the work that an engine with .25 or 3.5 cc does.

Also, your statement brings up one important point about measuring engine temps, always measure at the glow plug. Measuring at the plug gives you the most accurate reading as it is in direct connection to the combustion chamber and gives you the most accurate indication of the internal temperature. It is also, for the very reasons you mentioned, the only way to accurately compare, because most plugs are within 1mm in length and made form the same material, the temperature between two different engines. In this case I am using the same plug in both engines which should eliminate any statistical difference.

BTW Traxxas and HPI use the same temperature, 290*F, as the upper limit for their engines.



And I definitely could be wrong...but I don't think it's correct to say that just because two completely different engines on two completely different trucks running the same temperatures are running the same exact fuel mix. You have to account for the size of the cooling head (and the fact that the one on the T-maxx doesn't really do too much...unless they changed in the (R) version). And BB motors always run higher temps then smaller motors. All .12/.15 (a .18 would be included because it's the same size) just happen to be happiest at about 220-240 degrees depending on the weight of the truck it was pulling and how it was geared. I've found most BBs run best at around 280ish. This isn't tuning for temps, this is tuning for performance and then checking for heat to make sure everything is getting the air it needs and to make sure there isn't any extra strain somewhere causing the motor to get hot.[/QUOTE]

[Baja-Destroyer]

to me this is all a scam Traxxas noticed sales of tmaxx going down due to new trucks so they decied to add just a few lil things that magicaly make it better when in reality they are just double dippin people who have the original tmaxx know its problems and want try again with this new magic tmaxx but really its just giving Traxxas more money imo the new tmaxx is basically the same and it shows Traxxas just has a good ad agency

[jocktheglide165]

traxxas is like the asian people they believe smaller is better and us americans like bigger is better. Asians want a 1 liter that can pump 300HP out of a car while us americans like the big 5L, 8L, etc..to show how big we are....

[TJGuitarZ]

I think it's cool.

[woody669]

What Traxxas needed to do was figure out why all of us went out and bought motors for our Revo's within a week. Heck I was so disappointed by the 2.5 I went out and bought a Sirio .23 for my Revo Now THAT'S WHAT I CALL ACCELERATION!
give it a new body, give it a longer chasis....heck....give it a new trx 3.3 engine; it just doesnt matter.

Traxxas- STOP PUTTING A SMALL BLOCK ENGINE IN A MONSTER TRUCK!!!!!!

So the 3.3 is what? a .18 or .20 engine? everyone else is putting a .27 in their trucks? While a revo with a .18/20 is impressive I think that I would take a OS any day over the trx.

I have a Revo. I love it to death. I just think that traxxas needs to learn what a big block engine could do for them.

[Sorcerer001]

What Traxxas needed to do was figure out why all of us went out and bought motors for our Revo's within a week. Heck I was so disappointed by the 2.5 I went out and bought a Sirio .23 for my Revo Now THAT'S WHAT I CALL ACCELERATION!

I've yet to own a 2.5 I didn't like. Sure, more horsepower would be great, but as far as .15's go, it doesn't get much better. After a 3 year break from racing, I made round 2 of the RC Pro Series West my first race back in to the game. Out of 36 or 38 trucks in the Standard MT class I was one of the only, if not THE only driver running a stock 2.5R. Even with my horribly rusty skills, I managed to rake in a 7th place finish for the weekend. Short of breaking a shock shaft in one round (didn't finish), the Revo was nearly perfect. The engine ran without a hiccup all three days, and has continued running well through two gallons of 30% race fuel the remainder of the season.
If all you do is bash, and power is all you care about, sure, you'll get some more yank out of a big block. And yeah, the OS .18TZ and TM are the engines to have on the track in the smallblock class. I just wouldn't sell the 2.5R short, as it's a very impressive engine both in terms of durability and performance. If the 3.3 is legal for smallblock competition, O.S. may have a battle ahead of them.

[ducati777]

to me this is all a scam Traxxas noticed sales of tmaxx going down...

Uhhh yes, thats called capitalism, and its how the economic world in America works. :rolleyes:

You're mad that Traxxas is improving its product line? I don't get it man, I love to see development in the industry, and I don't mind if someone is able to raise a family off it either.

[mushroomhead13]

I wanted an electric revo, not a big block revo, already have ext vantage chassi and big block conversion. I dunno if this new revo could be considered small block monster class

Gorillamax has devoloped a electric conversion for the revo which allows you to bolt on the front and rear assemblies of your revo. Its availible as carbonfiber or CNC-machinedand it uses the emaxx transmission and electronics.

[mushroomhead13]

There are three new very awsome trucks out now the T-Maxx 3.3,Revo 3.3 and the Savage X. Im not at all a racer im just a basher so which is best for cheap reliable bashing.

[RCMadMatt]

Actually, sales of Tmaxx's at our store were still brisk before the supply of them ran out! They still outsell pretty much everything else about 2-to-1, and the 1 is split between Revo, Savage, LST, MGT, etc. It may have shortcomings, but it's still a fun, fairly nimble truck that is a blast to personalize (just check the freaking aftermarket for it!)!

Matt

[Nitro 4 me]

if anyone cares my new 3.3 tmaxx just came

[mushroomhead13]

How is it is it would you say its better than the savage.

[Nitro 4 me]

i've never had a savage, but its much better than the old tmaxx. Lots of improvements

[ChuckDeez]

i found out the displacement in towerhobbies.com

Displacement: .20 cu in (3.3cc)

[Raster]

At the LHS around here, the T-Maxx outsells EVERY other truck there at a 3-to-1 pace, they tell me. This store has all the popular models - T-Maxx, Revo, Savage, MGT, LST, etc., but the T-Maxx is their biggest seller.

[jocktheglide165]

Uhhh yes, thats called capitalism, and its how the economic world in America works. :rolleyes:

You're mad that Traxxas is improving its product line? I don't get it man, I love to see development in the industry, and I don't mind if someone is able to raise a family off it either.
I think he is just mad because folks bought a revo and didnt know a improved one was coming one day later after buying etc...I would be too I mean they cant hint at a new revo all of a sudden a new one pops up, makes ya kinda mad of course. I mean you probably be mad also if you found out one of your favorite items in life just came out witha new improved one after buying one just 1 sec ago. LIke buying a ferrari that has 500HP then all of a sudden you drive out of the lot and the sales guy told oh yeah we just got a shipment in with new improved ferrari that has 750HP for only extra 20k also suspension has been improved etc...then he tells ya oh yeah you drove that care off the lot so to trade it in you will need extra 75k to buy the new and improved. :p

[zakerid]

man... I just got a 2006 Pontiac G6... If I new their was going to be a 2007 model, I would have waited...
WAAAA... Come on people, this hobby is forever changing. The good thing is that you can upgrade your trucks if you want to.

[samaj]

Is there a conversion for a Revo to a Revo 3.3 offered by Traxxas?
One complete set with all required hardware or a only engine conversion?

[jocktheglide165]

man... I just got a 2006 Pontiac G6... If I new their was going to be a 2007 model, I would have waited...
WAAAA... Come on people, this hobby is forever changing. The good thing is that you can upgrade your trucks if you want to.

yeah, but traxxas does does not warn or give hint of new product unlike the pontiac G6 which most folks knew and hinted by pontiac themselves like a year and half ago...if not more.

[Tim'sLosi]

Is there a conversion for a Revo to a Revo 3.3 offered by Traxxas?
One complete set with all required hardware or a only engine conversion?
Nope, no kit as of this time. You'll probably have to buy it all seperately or buy a new revo. Here is a link for the diff and brake setup http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/revo/revo33/trx_revo33_accessories.htm

What do the UAE residents think of the whole US Port fuss? PM me...

[Nitro 4 me]

I've got my 3.3 engine for sale. I just bought the tmaxx for the suspension to put on my emaxx. The new tmaxx is pretty cool everyone should check it out if they can. I see tower is out of them already.

[ChuckDeez]

i ordered one and its coming this friday. I might return it and stick with my HPI super rally. not sure what to do.

[samaj]

I'am coming to the US in march. I will be there only till 25th MArch.Where can i but the Revo 3.3 now? Some people on the forum have bought them.

[RuKind]

I was at the lhs today and they said no revo 3.3 till the end of the month or first of next. But I'm first on the list.
Btw the new tmaxx was there and it does looks pretty bad. I believe it was priced at $439.
I didn't even ask about the price of the revo, I just know I want it.

[Ball Racing]

No one got one yet?
They were on the shelves here early this week.

[RuKind]

The revo was on your shelf or just the tmaxx?

[ChuckDeez]

i got my tmaxx 3.3 but i shipped it back to towerhobbies. Decided to go REVO 3.3.

[mushroomhead13]

will the 3.3 revos bashing abilities be afected by the extended chassis

[Monsterbrad]

What will be next a traxxas truggy?
they just keep punching out a small block and changing there set up's around to keep the eye of rcr's.
Lets face it Traxxas has the money to have the best pictures and most push on the market for adds in magazines and there site on the net is one of the best.
But lets face this fact too
there are alot better trucks out there that will take a ton more then either of these new re do trucks.
Come on Traxxas lets have a real truck with a
BIG BLOCK!
cuz
NOTHING RUNS LIKE A BIG BLOCK :D

[stonesavage]

will the 3.3 revos bashing abilities be afected by the extended chassisYes! it will handle even better!! look at lst or mgt for example.

[cody05]

What will be next a traxxas truggy?
they just keep punching out a small block and changing there set up's around to keep the eye of rcr's.
Lets face it Traxxas has the money to have the best pictures and most push on the market for adds in magazines and there site on the net is one of the best.
But lets face this fact too
there are alot better trucks out there that will take a ton more then either of these new re do trucks.
Come on Traxxas lets have a real truck with a
BIG BLOCK!
cuz
NOTHING RUNS LIKE A BIG BLOCK :D
what you guys don't understnad is if traxxas were to come out with a big block they would half to redo all there trucks because there engines sit to the right side and would flip the truck if u put a big block on that set up and two the price will go up.

[cody05]

What will be next a traxxas truggy?
they just keep punching out a small block and changing there set up's around to keep the eye of rcr's.
Lets face it Traxxas has the money to have the best pictures and most push on the market for adds in magazines and there site on the net is one of the best.
But lets face this fact too
there are alot better trucks out there that will take a ton more then either of these new re do trucks.
Come on Traxxas lets have a real truck with a
BIG BLOCK!
cuz
NOTHING RUNS LIKE A BIG BLOCK :D
what you guys don't understnad is if traxxas were to come out with a big block they would half to redo all there trucks because there engines sit to the right side and would flip the truck if u put a big block on that set up and two the price will go up.
three everything woul dhave to be steel gears because of the power plastic or won't hold up and not quiet sure about aluminum.

[racer34v]

does the 3.3 engine have the same carb neck size as the 2.5?

[Ball Racing]

How come GM and Ford still have small blocks?
If they sell enough to make profit, they could come with high strength rubber bands for all I care.
No matter what engine is in there, 90% of the people will change them anyway,

And not all "big blocks" are super powerful.
Look in X treme r-c dyno report of the LRP .12 1.1+HP
Compare that to the War Heads .27 that has .86HP,
yes the .27 has more torque but come on,
a light truck, and modest hp give grins, and sell trucks,

too much power, broke drive trains, harder driveability with obscene torque curves that make smooth driving tough,
and puts the truck on it's lid with every sqeeze of the trigger are not for newbies.

And if your not a newbie, you aren't looking for Traxxas to have the best quality, most power, and most performance and value anyway if you have moved up and have built kit vehicles that are higher end.

Traxxas has their market...

[Raster]

How come GM and Ford still have small blocks?
If they sell enough to make profit, they could come with high strength rubber bands for all I care.
No matter what engine is in there, 90% of the people will change them anyway,

And not all "big blocks" are super powerful.
Look in X treme r-c dyno report of the LRP .12 1.1+HP
Compare that to the War Heads .27 that has .86HP,
yes the .27 has more torque but come on,
a light truck, and modest hp give grins, and sell trucks,

too much power, broke drive trains, harder driveability with obscene torque curves that make smooth driving tough,
and puts the truck on it's lid with every sqeeze of the trigger are not for newbies.

And if your not a newbie, you aren't looking for Traxxas to have the best quality, most power, and most performance and value anyway if you have moved up and have built kit vehicles that are higher end.

Traxxas has their market...


Ball,

You're right on the mark. This reality is lost on a lot of (younger) folks, that don't understand the realities of the market...

Traxxas' R&D has been red-hot for the last three years. They are improving their lineup, strengthening their designs and improving performance. The Revo is a great truck. Being critical of Traxxas is a popular thing for a lot of younger folks (kids), because they feel it makes them sound "more experienced" and "knowledgeable". Just parroting what they hear. A lot like kids arguing over Ford vs. Chevy (or, maybe one cartoon vs. another).

Traxxas releases a great design (Revo) and it sells like hotcakes. People say, "I wish it had a longer chassis...", "I wish it had a stronger engine...", etc. Traxxas releases many of these improvements and kids and those ignorant of market and engineering, not having one wit of knowledge or experience of design, say, "They should have done this to start with...", "Why doesn't it have a big block...", "why doesn't it have a lawnmower engine..." Saying "big block" makes them feel important and "cool", I guess. It doesn't matter what makes sense. Traxxas is on the move and their R&D and engineering is on a greased rail.

Don't underestimate Traxxas. They understand the marketplace VERY well.

[cody05]

Ball,

You're right on the mark. This reality is lost on a lot of (younger) folks, that don't understand the realities of the market...

Traxxas' R&D has been red-hot for the last three years. They are improving their lineup, strengthening their designs and improving performance. The Revo is a great truck. Being critical of Traxxas is a popular thing for a lot of younger folks (kids), because they feel it makes them sound "more experienced" and "knowledgeable". Just parroting what they hear. A lot like kids arguing over Ford vs. Chevy (or, maybe one cartoon vs. another).

Traxxas releases a great design (Revo) and it sells like hotcakes. People say, "I wish it had a longer chassis...", "I wish it had a stronger engine...", etc. Traxxas releases many of these improvements and kids and those ignorant of market and engineering, not having one wit of knowledge or experience of design, say, "They should have done this to start with...", "Why doesn't it have a big block...", "why doesn't it have a lawnmower engine..." Saying "big block" makes them feel important and "cool", I guess. It doesn't matter what makes sense. Traxxas is on the move and their R&D and engineering is on a greased rail.

Don't underestimate Traxxas. They understand the marketplace VERY well.
so woul du be calling me a stupid and saying i don't understand the market?? i say what i know not what i hear or guess

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

Look in X treme r-c dyno report of the LRP .12 1.1+HP
Compare that to the War Heads .27 that has .86HP

Um the Warheads .27 is rated at 2.6hp not .86 and the Warhead will run with Maxx off the line and beat it on the topend. Now then for a little bit of science, horse power is a function of torque, not the other way around, and torque is what makes you move. The more torque you have the higher gearing you can use and still have bottom end performance. The best racers will tell you that its all about gearing for the track (short track with lots of turns=low gears low rpm big block, long track with long straights=high gears high rpm small block) and then selecting the engine to fit. Not the other way around.

[Ball Racing]

Where in the dyno report did you read 2.6hp?
This is not hype #'s from the manufacture,
I talking dyno #'s, fact figures.

And for science, HP and torque are a reading of each other, you can divide or mulitply by 5252.1 and by rpm, and read it either way.
If you have more hp at say 5,000rpms, then you have more torque also at that rpm,
I do this all the time when I dyno racing motors for the karting world.

It's about the power curve really, not just a pretty number.

You can take a TOP 28X Race big block that has rpm capability that rivals most small blocks, and has HP and torque that is unreal, on the x-dyno 2+HP the only engine so far that they have tested that was that strong.

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

Ball,

Pull your head out of wherever you keep it and come up for some air.

HP IS A FUNCTION OF TORQUE it is not the other way around. Torque is determined by multiplying the applied force by the distance from the pivot point to the point where the force is applied and horsepower is the rate at which torque is applied. Since applied torque causes a shaft and its connected components to rotate, a certain RPM results.

HP is calculated by the following equation: HP = (Torque (lb. -in.) x RPM)/63,025. The only thing that happens at 5252 is that torque and rpms become equal. This is called the mathematical proof. In other words you cannot measure the HP of any engine until you know its torque output PERIOD.

Now then as to engine outputs, with all else being equal there is no way in this dimension that an engine that displaces .12cid will out power an engine displacing .27cid without the .12 engine having some means of increasing its intake potential beyond atmospheric pressure. Power output is directly related to the amount (measured in cylinder volume) and type of fuel you can put into an engine and the mechanical advantage introduced by the rotating assembly (connecting rod length and crankshaft throws). Think about this for a second a .27 engine is 225% (2.25 times) as large as a .12 in volume. This means that the .27 has the potential to intake 225% more air and fuel then the .12. Now you tell me how a .12 is going to make 139% more power (1.2 vs. .86) over the .27.

Now please provide a link to these dyno figures you keep talking about. I’ll wager any amount of money you wish that either A) the figure for the .27 was a typo, or B) you misread the dyno sheet.

[Ball Racing]

The dyno sheets are every month in X-Treme RC magazine.


I most certainly believe that a larger engine should make more power, but there are just so many instances where it doesn't happen,
I'm talking like say a 350 ci nascar motor 800hp, natural aspiration.
Thats alot more than some street rodders are getting out of 454's and 460's.

Or pro stock nhra that are getting 1,500hp out of 500 ci.
when ihra pro stocks have 800 ci. but make way more torque but not really any more HP.

Thats what I mentioned above that the .12 had less torque, but more HP than the .27

volumetric effeceincy is where the power is at, and just because a motor is large in ci, does not mean that the manufacture made it effeceint.

I build 5hp briggs and stratton flathead kart motors,
stock is 5 hp @ 3,600 rpm
I change out the carb, cam, rod& piston, valve springs, and port it,
and can get 20hp @ 8,500rpm from the same ci..

I run my motor on a hydraulic brake dyno,
and without a torque arm, so you are reading HP first, then you figure TQ.

Example
HP+(pump gpm*pressure)/1628.3
Torque = (HP*5252.1)/Motor RPM

If you give me HP number at any rpm, I can give you Torque #'s
Or if you give me Torque #'s for any rpm I can give you HP #'s

It takes specific HP amouts to operate hydraulics, and that is the beginning point of this style dyno.

I really don't think I am argueing this at you , so I fail to see the need for my head to be in a hole or somewhere,coming up for air, or be accused of reading things wrong, and having a wager placed to prove a point.

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

Ball though you seem to get the basics you still don't seem to understand the hard core science behind that math. For example I most certainly believe that a larger engine should make more power, but there are just so many instances where it doesn't happen,
I'm talking like say a 350 ci nascar motor 800hp, natural aspiration.
Thats alot more than some street rodders are getting out of 454's and 460's.

If you recall from my pervious post I talked about two things that make horsepower: volume and fuel types. First let’s get one thing clear the “gas” they use in NASCAR engines is nothing like the “gas” used in street engines. Currently NASCAR is using a 118 octane leaded racing fuel. This allows the NASCAR engine builder to do a few things that your street engine builder cannot, like run very short duration camshafts that build up massive cylinder pressure. Your typical hotrod/street racer roller cam runs between 110* and 108* of overlap. A NASCAR engine will run as little as 92*. Your typical hotrod/street racer roller cam, depending on the size of the engine, will run .610 to .730 inches of lift on the cam lobes. A NASCAR engine will run between .880 to .930 inches of lift on the cam. All of this goes to increasing the volume of fuel which is put into the engine.


Second it allows for super advance ignition timing (A typical street engine runs around 32-36* of timing a NASCAR engine can have as much as 50* of timing.); which again allows for massive cylinder pressure. In most engines the more cylinder pressure you have the more power you can make. Typical street engines develop between 160 and 180psi of cranking pressure. Due to the high-lift short-duration roller cams and the fuel used a typical 358 cid NASCAR engine (358 Cid is what every NASCAR team runs) hits around 230psi. Once again it is the type of fuel which lets them build up so much pressure. When NASACR put a limit on compression the engine designers just dialed in less overlap on the cam which allowed the new engine to make the same cylinder pressure as their higher compression counter parts.

In short, as you can see, when comparing a NASCAR engine to a street engine you are comparing apples to oranges. Each maybe a fruit, each may grow on a tree, and each may have seeds, but that is where the comparisons between the two end. On the other hand this same is not true when you compare the two engines mentioned in the pervious post.

Now let us talk about the torque thing again. You still don’t seem to get it. You cannot figure out HP without first knowing the TQ, period! In your examples you already know the one so figuring the other is a simple matter of a little math. But if you have a brand new engine that has never been on a dyno you will have to have a torque reading BEFORE you will know its horsepower. Do a little research before you make yourself look more foolish.

Let me try to explain it this way. Torque is the measure of rotational force put out by the engine. Horsepower is a measure of straight line performance. You have to know the amount of torque, or rotational force, an engine has BEFORE you can measure its straight line performance. Or how about this, the engine must be spinning; generating torque, before you can measure how much it can pull, or measure its horsepower. Another way to look at is to compare a gasoline engine to a diesel engine. The gasoline engine has low torque but high horsepower, or low power but high speed performance. A typical diesel engine has high torque but low horsepower, or a large power output but low speed performance.

When it comes to these little engines there are only a few things that can be done to increase the intake volume and cylinder pressure. Naturally you can install a larger carburetor but this will only increase your performance up to what the unmodified engine can breathe. So then it becomes a question of what can you do to make the engine breathe better?

The first thing that most engine manufactures do, generally because it is also the cheapest modification is increase the number of intake ports. Obviously increasing the number and size of the intake ports allows for more fuel (or a greater volume) to enter the combustion chamber. This is followed by increasing the port flow in the block. The next thing is to increase the intake port timing of the crankshaft. This again increases the potential volume of fuel that can enter the engine. The last thing (though it should be the first thing to look at) is increasing the exhaust port. The reason why the exhaust is always smaller then the intake has to do with the differences between the flow rate of gasses and liquids. But often times it is the exhaust that also has the greatest restriction and so changing the exhaust pattern will give you the biggest increase in power for the lowest amount of cost in terms of work required for improvement.

So now then taking the size differential between the two engines in question (.12 vs .27) the .12 would have to have a flow rate (read that as flow volume) of approximately .80 over stock to equal the power potential of a normally ported .27 which will never happen unless it has forced induction. Or has you claim, in order for the .27 to make only .86 hp it would have to have its intake potential restricted by nearly 60%.

Incase you are wondering just how I know all of this; well after 25 years of racing in 4 different IHRA classes, 7 track records, 14 class championships, 5 runner up titles and building three different cars that have appeared in both Hot Rod and Car Craft magazines you learn a few things.

[Ball Racing]

But if you have a brand new engine that has never been on a dyno you will have to have a torque reading BEFORE you will know its horsepower. Do a little research before you make yourself look more foolish.
Don't you love names :)

1-Some dyno's are inertia, spins a weighted flywheel (acelleration dyno)
and there is the water brake or hdydraulic brake dyno
2- I use a brake dyno on my motors
3- I get a hp first then use my above math to compute torque
(this is not a dyno that has the torque arm)
4- the comparison I gave about street versus nascar was for converstaion comparing as we did not get into port timing or crank window timing or exhuast timing, or deck height of the little nitro motors as you did on the v-8's
5- I read what was on the sheet in the magazine about the two engines.
6- I know what #'s to crunch in my personal dyno, and yes my motor won last years points chase in junior champ.
7- wheres the love :) this is not a battle of the wits... just some little play toys:D

[t9dragon]

IMO, who really cares what a Traxxas motor can or can't do. Now don't get me wrong I have owned several Traxxas vehicles, but I just don't care for their motors. hehe

[stonesavage]

Ball though you seem to get the basics you still don't seem to understand the hard core science behind that math. For example

If you recall from my pervious post I talked about two things that make horsepower: volume and fuel types. First let’s get one thing clear the “gas” they use in NASCAR engines is nothing like the “gas” used in street engines. Currently NASCAR is using a 118 octane leaded racing fuel. This allows the NASCAR engine builder to do a few things that your street engine builder cannot, like run very short duration camshafts that build up massive cylinder pressure. Your typical hotrod/street racer roller cam runs between 110* and 108* of overlap. A NASCAR engine will run as little as 92*. Your typical hotrod/street racer roller cam, depending on the size of the engine, will run .610 to .730 inches of lift on the cam lobes. A NASCAR engine will run between .880 to .930 inches of lift on the cam. All of this goes to increasing the volume of fuel which is put into the engine.


Second it allows for super advance ignition timing (A typical street engine runs around 32-36* of timing a NASCAR engine can have as much as 50* of timing.); which again allows for massive cylinder pressure. In most engines the more cylinder pressure you have the more power you can make. Typical street engines develop between 160 and 180psi of cranking pressure. Due to the high-lift short-duration roller cams and the fuel used a typical 358 cid NASCAR engine (358 Cid is what every NASCAR team runs) hits around 230psi. Once again it is the type of fuel which lets them build up so much pressure. When NASACR put a limit on compression the engine designers just dialed in less overlap on the cam which allowed the new engine to make the same cylinder pressure as their higher compression counter parts.

In short, as you can see, when comparing a NASCAR engine to a street engine you are comparing apples to oranges. Each maybe a fruit, each may grow on a tree, and each may have seeds, but that is where the comparisons between the two end. On the other hand this same is not true when you compare the two engines mentioned in the pervious post.

Now let us talk about the torque thing again. You still don’t seem to get it. You cannot figure out HP without first knowing the TQ, period! In your examples you already know the one so figuring the other is a simple matter of a little math. But if you have a brand new engine that has never been on a dyno you will have to have a torque reading BEFORE you will know its horsepower. Do a little research before you make yourself look more foolish.

Let me try to explain it this way. Torque is the measure of rotational force put out by the engine. Horsepower is a measure of straight line performance. You have to know the amount of torque, or rotational force, an engine has BEFORE you can measure its straight line performance. Or how about this, the engine must be spinning; generating torque, before you can measure how much it can pull, or measure its horsepower. Another way to look at is to compare a gasoline engine to a diesel engine. The gasoline engine has low torque but high horsepower, or low power but high speed performance. A typical diesel engine has high torque but low horsepower, or a large power output but low speed performance.

When it comes to these little engines there are only a few things that can be done to increase the intake volume and cylinder pressure. Naturally you can install a larger carburetor but this will only increase your performance up to what the unmodified engine can breathe. So then it becomes a question of what can you do to make the engine breathe better?

The first thing that most engine manufactures do, generally because it is also the cheapest modification is increase the number of intake ports. Obviously increasing the number and size of the intake ports allows for more fuel (or a greater volume) to enter the combustion chamber. This is followed by increasing the port flow in the block. The next thing is to increase the intake port timing of the crankshaft. This again increases the potential volume of fuel that can enter the engine. The last thing (though it should be the first thing to look at) is increasing the exhaust port. The reason why the exhaust is always smaller then the intake has to do with the differences between the flow rate of gasses and liquids. But often times it is the exhaust that also has the greatest restriction and so changing the exhaust pattern will give you the biggest increase in power for the lowest amount of cost in terms of work required for improvement.

So now then taking the size differential between the two engines in question (.12 vs .27) the .12 would have to have a flow rate (read that as flow volume) of approximately .80 over stock to equal the power potential of a normally ported .27 which will never happen unless it has forced induction. Or has you claim, in order for the .27 to make only .86 hp it would have to have its intake potential restricted by nearly 60%.

Incase you are wondering just how I know all of this; well after 25 years of racing in 4 different IHRA classes, 7 track records, 14 class championships, 5 runner up titles and building three different cars that have appeared in both Hot Rod and Car Craft magazines you learn a few things. Omg :rolleyes:

[smoky]

you guys need to take this to a mathmatics forum or sumthin. first of all no one cares either the engine is good or it sucks and if you dont know some .12s make more power than some .21s then all that other mumbo jumbo dont mean nothin

[Billabob91]

man... I just got a 2006 Pontiac G6... If I new their was going to be a 2007 model, I would have waited...
WAAAA... Come on people, this hobby is forever changing. The good thing is that you can upgrade your trucks if you want to.

i like that... lol


sorry... that was kind of random

and good job, dad to a marine, you schooled that guy

[Vodka]

NOW I might buy a Revo. That's impressive stuff. I still don't want anything to do w/ the electronics, and it still needs the extended rear arms...but that's an impressive revamp. Nice job Traxxas.

As for the T-Maxx...

I know why they still make it, because they still sell like mad, and they still make a ton of money on them, but come on people, stop buying that garbage. Reject everything T-Maxx so that Traxxas will stop making it. Please.

Please tell me why the T-maxx is garbage?
I think the T- MAXX 3.3 is awsome, much an improvement on the T-MAXX 2.5, they have definately fixed a few things up for the 3.3
So why is it so bad?

[Vodka]

I am on the Search for A new Nitro truck
I was looking at the T-MAXX 3.3 and what do the superiors here think?
I have heard a lot of guys saying that the Revo Is better?

[t9dragon]

I am on the Search for A new Nitro truck
I was looking at the T-MAXX 3.3 and what do the superiors here think?
I have heard a lot of guys saying that the Revo Is better?


It is really what you want to get. I have a T-Maxx, Savage, Mammoth St and I also owned a Revo. Out of those trucks the Savage holds up the best when bashing, the Mammoth & Revo are great for racing, and the T-Maxx has a ton of aftermarket parts. Of coarse this is my opinion. hehe :D

[Vodka]

It is really what you want to get. I have a T-Maxx, Savage, Mammoth St and I also owned a Revo. Out of those trucks the Savage holds up the best when bashing, the Mammoth & Revo are great for racing, and the T-Maxx has a ton of aftermarket parts. Of coarse this is my opinion. hehe :D


Thanks, I really appreciate your help.
I suppose there isnt really the "BEST" monster truck it depends what you want to do with it.

[Ball Racing]

and good job, dad to a marine, you schooled that guy

Oh, really?

Everyone in doubt please turn to page73 of the April 2006 X- treme RC magazine and look at the dyno sheet on the Warheads 27 engine.
This is not rocket science.

Now turn to page 181 in the same issue, and look at the results from the LRP .12

I was not told anything I did not know, but , and of course you always want and hope, and figures usually show the bigger the better.

BUT, this time it ain't, and yes it's just one time out of ten that the old school thinking didn't work out.

Read the facts, and cease attacks,

Do your homework, and tell me what you saw..

[zakerid]

I suppose there isnt really the "BEST" monster truck it depends what you want to do with it.
this is such a true statement... I think the 3.3 maxx will be pretty good, but in all honesty i would rather go with another truck. Revo, MGT, Sav., LST, Genesis... all these trucks kick butt.

[RC4Ever]

Does anyone know or care to guess how beginner friendly these trucks are to drive?

[Peterbilt]

Looks pretty cool. However, once I get back into nitro, Im never buying a Traxxas engine. It could be that Im bad at tuning, but I've had two TRX 2.5's and those things dont hold tunes for anything. Also, I have a TMaxx, and it resides under my bed collecting dust. I really like Traxxas, but the TMaxx isnt my kinda truck. I'll probably end up sellings it and buying a Nitro 'Pede with a OS 15. I like smaller, more agile things anyways.

[Vodka]

Yup Ive changed my mind, I am In South Africa and the backup on Traxxas cars is not that great. So I am going for The Savage X, The Support and parts availability for HPI here is a lot better.

[4wdmt]

Does anyone here have a T-Maxx 3.3 and can actually give a good honest review of this truck and this 3.3 engine. I read that the rear driveshafts "twist" due to the power of this engine.

[Vodka]

Does anyone here have a T-Maxx 3.3 and can actually give a good honest review of this truck and this 3.3 engine. I read that the rear driveshafts "twist" due to the power of this engine.

After watching a couple of short video clips the power must be insane because the truck does not stop wheeling! those are just my observations but I dont actually own one :)

[marinearmeni]

Think about this for a second a .27 engine is 225% (2.25 times) as large as a .12 in volume. This means that the .27 has the potential to intake 225% more air and fuel then the .12. Now you tell me how a .12 is going to make 139% more power (1.2 vs. .86) over the .27.
Not to nitpick or start up this debate again, and no flames please, buuuuuuut... the .27 is really 125% bigger, not 225%. It is 2.25 times as big, but that is not percentage. And the .12 (according to the dyno) is actually making about 39.5% more power then the .27, not 139%. If the the engine dispaces .12, then adding 125% more dispacement (.15 cu in) would give you .27, 225% would be a .39. I'm sure you already knew that and just added in the orignal engines 100%, I just don't want people to think that their new .30 is 200% bigger then their old .15 or something like that. Good times! :)

[Dad-to-a-Marine]

Looking at your opening statement gives me enough information to dispel the rest of your post.

Not to nitpick or start up this debate again, and no flames please, buuuuuuut... the .27 is really 125% bigger, not 225%. It is 2.25 times as big, but that is not percentage.

Learner proper grammar “the .27 is really 125% bigger” is not proper grammar. What you were trying to say is that the .27 is 125% LARGER in size then the .12. Or that it, the .27, has a 125% increase in displacement over the .12. Or that it, again the .27, is 225% (2.25 times) greater in volume then a .12 engine.

Once you learn proper grammar, which you demonstrate a complete lack of throughout your whole rant, you can come back and critique my work.

[kawasakirider]

traxxas is like the asian people they believe smaller is better and us americans like bigger is better. Asians want a 1 liter that can pump 300HP out of a car while us americans like the big 5L, 8L, etc..to show how big we are....


to show how big you are??? you wouldn't be compensating for anything now would you lol

[Ball Racing]

:rolleyes:

[mook]

delete

[Badmaxx-24]

Could we stop with all this arguing back and forth about who knows more about horsepower and what does this and what does that.whew I mean afew posts are ok but back and forth back and forth trying to prove who's got the biggest brain. I'm I the only one that's getting tired of reading this every time I come here?? lol the size of the truck has alot to do with it. I mean Put that 3.3 In a savage and it wont do much. On the other end If u could squeeze the new savage X engine into the T-maxx It would make it Insanely fast and powerful. I mean lets just keep it that simple and move on. JMO

[ron1431]

can someone give me a a review of the 3.3 if anyone has one yet ? would be very helpful. this is a big weak point in the revo. dont want to drop $200 right away for a os tm just yet.thank also can it accept roto start?

[revoman2507]

looking to add the 3.3 to my revo any comments?

[ChuckDeez]

looking to add the 3.3 to my revo any comments?

you should sell your revo around $350 on ebay and buy the new revo 3.3. its the same price when you buy a motor but you'll get everything brand new!!

[revoman2507]

the problem is my revo is almost new now.with custom parts should i still sell it for a new revo?is the extra 3 cm w/center diff worth it? or just drop a 3.3 in it? mike

[Combatcm]

So traxxas made a .20 so they could make the most powerful small block engine.

They also made optional center diff and they lengthened the chassis.

Does this mean all they are trying to do is hit the limits of small block mt?

Or does any of those new features kick it up to UMT?

[ChuckDeez]

the problem is my revo is almost new now.with custom parts should i still sell it for a new revo?is the extra 3 cm w/center diff worth it? or just drop a 3.3 in it? mike

the revo's new chassis is much longer too.

how about put your plastic parts back on, if you don't have them, buy them. they're like what? 5 dollars for 2 a arms? and keep your parts and sell the revo and buy the new one!

[R_C_hoodlum]

All you should have to do is drop in a big block and you should be all set to race in the UMT class. If you have a fairly new 3.3, sell it and use the money towards a big block.

[bemmermazda]

A friend of mine just bought a maxx 3.3 and i broke it in for him and bashed a little. IMO it is crap. The truck is so obsolete and standard. It handles poor and flips on any turn of the wheel. The wheelie bar is poor and is in two pieces. one piece has a c type clip that snaps into the other piece on cross members. but as you would imagine it doesnt stay connected very long. The trucks brakes really well. But most of the time they throw the car into a front flip. It is a very fast truck but when it gets going any input to direction will throw the truck. Another thing, the engine stalls a lot. For example you will give a small bit of throttle but the car wont move and needs a little kick behind. I do like the EZSTART and was a great invention. It started first try with no trouble through out the day. Temps were moderate.
I would def. pick the revo or jato over this. The car is good but out dated. Last point, the plastic is same quality, just grey.