Advance the timing on stock motors 100% ROAR Legal...

[Speedy]

As stated below, unsolicited links to other sites isn't allowed. If you want to post the information here, please do so. Thanks.


[This message has been edited by SteveP (edited 10-23-2000).]

[hpiguy]

Yeah yeah yeah, ovalnator already told us how to cheat "legally".

Besides, it's just another reason for you to advertise your site.

[ovalnator]

Hey HPIGUY, just take a look and tell us what you think.

Speedy, you try to share ideas you have learned and look what you get; No gratitude. I remember seeing it over at DirtOval.com and in case I didnt say it there, Thanks. It is the same thing Ive been doing when I run Mod; And I only use stock arms in MOD; keeps costs down.

[hpiguy]

Actually I could care less about the cheating or non-cheating thing.

It's more about the self promoting, on RCCA's site that annoys me. And it annoys SteveP from what he says.

[XXXER]

HPIGUY is right, that is disgusting, first, you waste a pair of brushes, and then you cheat? This hobby is about F U N. if someone did that at my track, no one would like him, no body likes a cheater, especially when he wins, Steve, please delete this thread

[Top End]

Guys! I don't think that altering your brushes is against ROAR's rules. And it can hardly be called cheating if the person doing it is making the information available to everybody so they can also do it. If the playing field is level, then nobody has an advantage right?

If you think custom cutting your brushes should be illegal, you should contact ROAR about it and have them change their rules.

[ovalnator]

I find this funny. HPIGUY, you say you shouldnt be able to cut brushes because it isnt fair. Technically speaking, you should be able to run only the brush that comes with the motor. When the brush is dead or worn out, then the motor should get tossed and replaced. This enshures no cheating, because stock motors should run Stock brushes, right? Wait, maybe we should all run closed endbell motors and go 2 mph and all have tons of fun!

According to Roar rules, cutting brushes is LEGAL. It doesnt matter what kind of cut it is because it is LEGAL. In other words, it is NOT cheating. It is also not a waste of a pair of brushes because they last as long as most brushes do. So you tell me, where is money involved here? Most racers buy a pair of brushes a week as it is, so whats the difference if they cut it different?

[hpiguy]

Pal you know what I meant by that.

They should only be able to use the TYPE of brushes that came with the motor. Not always the same exact brushes that the motor came with and then throw away the motor. They could easily STAMP those types of brushes to make it easy to tech.

You know what I meant, but changed the wording to suit your argument. I know I'm guilty of this in the past too.

Your just being childish now.

[XXXER]

I think when they say it is legal to cut brushes, that usually means just the FACE of the brushes. that is all, and if you need to cheat to be fast, go right ahead, i can barely handle my P2K's power as it is

[2fast4u]

go to roar site they CLEARLY say you can MODIFY brushes in stock motors

[This message has been edited by 2fast4u (edited 10-23-2000).]

[SteveP]

Cutting brushes is legal, but I don't think the suggestion presented is very sound at all. Cutting the brush in such a manner invites problems. Brush material isn't that strong, and cutting it in such a fashion almost ensures the modified brush will break at some point or even get sucked into the motor. After cutting one myself to physically see the contact point on the commutator, I'm all but certain it doesn't offer any timing advantage over a standard timed brush.

[ovalnator]

Steve, when you adjust timing, you ar basically moving the brush to a different spot over the can magnets, correct? With the brushes cut in such a fashion, the brushes are slanted to move them over a new spot on the magnet, hence increasing timing and power ( I may be wrong) I dynoed my motor with the brushes cut and uncut and it does increase power.

HPIGUY, I knew what you ment. I guess I was being a smart ***. Like I told you before, I wish Stock was nothing but a spec class, sorta like street spec. Racers would have to run a certain motor, a certain battery, certain tires, and the car had to be boxed stock with the exception of titanium tie rods ( for obvious reasons). That would eliminate the need for expensive motors, batteries, and cars such as factory team versions and kinwald editions. I have mailed roar and norrca on many occaisions, but do you think they will change the rules for one person? Maybe if I was Brian Kinwald they would, but for an average joe like me, of course not. Maybe the moderators could set us up a poll, where we can vote on the issue, and email the poll to roar and norrca and ask them to change the rules. Think about it.

[XXXER]

Like i said, YOU can enjoy yourself by messin your brushes, OK, i am glad it is legal, i am still gonna stick to the "STANDARD" way

[tadium54]

triple x is right who cares if it's legal. this is almost the same as cheating, because people don't always use this method to go faster. If everyone doesn't do this, people will have an edge that others may not have. hpi guy is fight too.i know this kindof off topic but hpi guy, do you know ifthe HPI Pro Sport 2(or something like that(it was reviewed in the isuue with the 3 t-maxxes)is any good for a second car?

[SteveP]

Ovalnator - If you cut the brushes as outlined, then mark the point at which they contact the commutator - there's no difference when compared to a standard TIMED brush.

[hpiguy]

tadium:

The Sport 2 is an excellent car, and competitive out of the box and it's easily upgradeable if you wish or need to.

It's good for a first or second car.

[ovalnator]

Steve I know that but Im talking about the brush in relation to the magnets, not the com. Isnt that why timing is adjustable on mods? The com is basically the same all the way around, but the magnets dont wrap around the whole can.

[SteveP]

Ovalnator - it's all relative, but the point at which the brushes contact the commutator IS what changes the timing. moving the point at which the brushes contact the comm THEN changes the relationship between the pole on the armature in relation to the magnet when electricity is flowing through that particular arm segment.

[ovalnator]

OK, so if the brush doesnt increase timing any more than a normal timed brush you can buy off the shelves, and this little tip doesnt talk about cutting the brush face, then what causes the increase in power? I dyno'd a reedy rage with trinity "E" brushes straight out of the package and "E" brushes with all the cuts, and the brushes w/ all the cuts produced more power. I know that RPMs are increased when brushes have a cavity, but would that also occur when the brushs side is cut so that it is narrower?

[SteveP]

A standard timed brush is simply that, it's cut on one side, which narrows the face of the brush, but it also moves the point of contact, which increases timing. The difference is, there's still a full brush inside the brush hood to keep it from bouncing and chattering all over the place and possibly breaking. Try cutting a 4499 E-brush like a timed brush and I think you'll find similar or better performance results without have to worry about that paper-thin brush shattering in the brush hood during a race.

[This message has been edited by SteveP (edited 10-25-2000).]

[XXXER]

Ya Steve, smack it to him! Anyways, if that is what you need to do to win.......HA HA!!!!

[ovalnator]

Steve, tried what you said but it still wasnt as fast as the other brush with all the cuts. It was very close though. I also took the "E" brush w/ a normal time cut (like the one you said) and drilled a small hole in it and it was faster than the other brush. I have come to 2 conclusions:

1) A regular timed brush w/ a tiny hole drilled is faster that the tip I had previously been grilled on.

2) I have way too much time on my hands if I tinker around with cutting brushes all day to see what is faster.

[SteveP]

lol!

[Speedy]

It's funny that poeple find this method of
advancing the timing on a stock motor is called cheating.

But when team guys do this on a regular basis
when there are handout stock motors at ROAR events its ok.

I thought I would post this to ALL to KNOW with a link.
I wasn't trying to promote anything for personal gain its a free web page but to save me from typing all the information out here with pictures.

Ya -right!



[This message has been edited by Speedy (edited 10-28-2000).]

[phillip vanbriggle]

Hay what part of the brush are you guys cutting and how. I dont think it would be cheating. But if you could email me the site you are getting this info i would appreciate it

cmslceaning@home.com

Thanks

[ovalnator]

Trust me, its not worth it. It doesnt increase the timing that much, the brushes are more prone to break, and in the long run, its just a waste of time (you have to cut the com like you would a modified).

[Throtl Hapie]

Here is how to post your link and not use self promotion. Make a topic like "what motor should I get?" Then make a signature that says something like "RC is fun" and have a link to your web site.

Easy enough.

[XXXER]

I swear that this thread died a looooong time ago, and BTW, making/getting cavity brushes are the best if you want a little more top end, just take a small drill bit and drill a cavity, gave some trinity #4444 brushes much more power.