Turn your stocker in to a 9 turn ! (OK, I was bored again)

[jeepinator]

Don't ask :rolleyes: ;)

OK, I even took lots of pics too. I disasembled an old stock motor and rewound it to be a 9 turn triple.
I have not taken it out yet, so I have no clue if it will actually be worth a crap (probably not). It was fun doing it, so what the heck.

I updated my web page with a simple write up and nifty pics.

Direct link here (http://www.theshreves.com/rc_stuff/rewire.htm)

And here is the finished product (for you non surfing types :p) ...

http://www.theshreves.com/rc_stuff/images/rewind6.jpg

[ 09-16-2001: Message edited by: jeepinator ]

[draggerman11]

Nice job Jeep, maybe I'll go get that Traxxas Stinger, and turn it into a 1 turn....

And before I loose my sanity, tell us how it runs!

[Mason Copeland]

HURRY JEEP TELL US HOW IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chizzler]

now jeeps gonna have a bunch of kids ruining their motors trying to make them fast! LOL... :D :rolleyes: :p :p

[draggerman11]

Yeah really. I was kidding if anyone didn't realize I was. I could never do something like that, I lack the soldering skills.

[chizzler]

forget brushless!!!! :D
just get a stock motor!

[jeepinator]

Heheh, no way !
This is just to tide me over until Novak releases their wizbang unit.

Assuming they EVER DO :rolleyes:

Well, I shoulda taken it out, but now it is dark :(

I will tommorow, I promise. Don't get your hopes up though ... the last time I tried this (like 7 years ago) the motor grenaded on me and there was solder splatered all over the inside of the motor can! I used "high silver content" solder this time, so maybe, just maybe ;)

[chizzler]

haha,
maybe you just "thought" you made a 9 turn triple, but in theory, it was a 2.5 x 7 that screamed like a bat out of hell so fast the speed broke the sound barrier! :D

[draggerman11]

Hehe Chiz, I think his esc would go BOOM! Hey chiz, are you on AIM?

[chizzler]

no aim was in chat...

[bluesy]

Jeep... nice write-up on the process. The new motor will probably go like a bat outa H**L. We used to do the same thing back in the days of slot car racing. The stockers back then came wound with 28 gauge wire. Can't remember the number of winds but we would just wind on 24 or 22 gauge until the armatures wwere full. We would epoxy them and bake in the oven to keep the windings on. Like you we silver soldered everything, but because we didn't have a lathe we trued the comm by spinning it with another motor and using emery cloth to smooth it out. Pretty barbaric but it worked okay. The motors would outrun anyone else at the track (until they figured out what we were doing and copied us). :cool: :cool:

[draggerman11]

Yes, Chiz, I know. It was a side question. PM me with the answer. Sounds like fun Jeep.

[chizzler]

haha, lol bluesy, i think you i remember you mentioning that story before, but im not sure if you mentioned that it worked! :D

[chizzler]

actually, jeep, youve got me interested, im going to study your web page.... ;)

[Nairb]

Who can guess what stock armature he started with? I can tell from this one picture... (I wonder if he says what it is on his webpage, hehe)

[draggerman11]

I dunno, this wouldn't make too much sense, but an epic arm?

[jeepinator]

Shoot, I don't even know !

Welp, I got home too late from work today to go play with this motor. Maybe tomorow ...

[Nairb]

Hey, since Jeep doesn't even know, I'll just say what it is. Yes, it's an epic arm. It looks just like a P2K arm, but since he said it was from a non-rebuildable motor, I think it's from a Midnight or Midnight 2.

Did you know all these "new" stock motors usually have one of only a couple armature stack designs thrown in over and over and over...? Now you do... ;)

[draggerman11]

Hehehe Brian, I picked the most illogical answer(for Jeep anyways) and went with it! :p

[Railman]

Looks like fun Jeep! I haven't wound an arm in 20 years, but just maybe I'll try out the pattern wind thing for kicks. The hard part is finding an old arm with any meat left on the com.
I'm 90% shure that's a Midnight/Epic arm. The Midnight 2 had the off set laminations for more timing advance. The Paradox was identical to the Midnight 2 with a little added little shaft at the com end. The P2K uses a new design offset lamination, with more meat at the surface for a stronger magnetic field.
Joe

[HauntedMyst]

jeep, if you are going to experiment like this, we need some ground rules like you can't tell us about it and then make us wait 3 or 4 days to find out if it works well or not! Its not fair to us!

[jeepinator]

Hehehe, good point HM !
Well, I stayed home "sick" today (sick of work) so I am going to go RIGHT NOW and drive it around. There is no one else here to take videos though :(
When my wife gets home I will task her with being the camerawoman ;)
I have I ever said that I love my wife ?
Well, I do! She is great.

[jeepinator]

Well, I guess I will not be needing the wife http://www.theshreves.com/pics/smiley/uhoh3.gif .

Here is how it turned out: pretty bad.
Details: The powerband was very bizarre. No bottom end at all. I geared it with an 18 pinion on my B3. It would just kinda roll along up to about 15 MPH then take off like a banshee. It was weird as heck. I did not allow it to get to full RPM for quite a few passes as I wanted to play for a bit before it grenaded (as happened last time I tried this). Afterchecking my ESC for full throttle light and making sure the brushes were seating properly I decided to let it spool up al the way.
It made it about 200 feet down my road at a pretty good clip (making TONS of noise due to the severely out of balance arm, it was a cool noise though ;) ) ... and then the expected happened ... full tire lock up and SMOKE and FIRE! Heheh, ok no smoke or fire, but it did catastrophically fail.
Here is the aftermath:

http://www.theshreves.com/pics/badarm.jpg

I know this can be done. I just need the right solder and to tie down the strands, like some hand wound mods are. What happened, as you can see, the winds came loose from the tabs. The performance issue I has is probably due to a shorted wind, or bad wrap design. Not sure ...

[maxxxracer]

LMAO. Well I guess i wont be trying that. hehe.

[Railman]

Jeep, It might have held with the right solder. I used to use Cobra 900 deg solder on my slot car motors...if I remember right. Did you balance, & if so what method? I couldn't help but notice how close the brush rode to the com tabs. Did they hit? I seriously doubt the loud noise would be from balance. Did you try heating the arm before you applied the epoxy? Thats how you get full saturation of the wires. Just heat the arm to about 150 +- degs & it'll draw the epoxy to the core. I'm bummed Jeep! :(
I wanted to hear about wheelies & stuff!
Joe

[jeepinator]

Sorry to dissapoint you ;)

To amswer your questions,
I agree, higer temp solder will be required. I don't have any ... and not sure where to get any. Actually, I would like to get some wire so that I don't have to disassemble any more stock motors to do this :)
I tried to balance, but two things conspired against me ... 1) The havy side was already drilled from a previous balancing 2) It was REALLY unbalanced. I made it a lot better, but as you can see from the above pic, I was a tad too agressive as it was (you can see the distorted laminations around the holes). There was only one hole previously. I used a bit that was too big, but only after a smaller bit did not get enough.
The brushes were oh so close, but no quite touching. During my building process I noted that as well. I wanted to center the arm in the magnetic field, but I could only get this close. It was almost centered, and almost touching so I found a fairly good happy medium.
I did not apply any epoxy! Stock motors are usually not epoxied, at least the older ones I have had aren't (well, I have one new one that came with my TC3 I got from Serious Black, but I have not yet openned it up). I know that epoxy might have helped, but I don't think it would be reuired, no ?
The sound I heard definately was vibration. It sounded like bees ;) The out of balance arm really tranfers the vibration well to the entire chassis.

[Andrew the RC man]

jeep- so you dont waste another 30 bucks next time you try this. order an old kyosho stocker. they are like 15 bucks, slow as heck and utterly worthless unless you like to tinker