New Topic: Learning track driving tips

[SSexton]

Hi
I would like to see if there is any interest in a new thread to help others learn driving on a dirt track, any input from experienced racers would be a great help for others to learn and want to stay in the sport!
thanks

OK fire away!

[sportmaxxracer]

Well, I don't want to steal everyones thunder, but I'll give some tips on getting speed out of jumps. The key is to always land as high as you can on the landing ramp. This is so you don't land on the flat ground, wich will slow you down. A little more experienced drivers can keep the nose down, and then throttle upon the front tires hitting the landing to get a little more speed. For most jumps, always level out as quick as possible, then gently brake in the air to bring the nose down, thus making the chassis parrellel with the landing. These are more advanced tips, but with practice they make a difference.

[sportmaxxracer]

Sorry for not covering the basics first.

[Grant Tokumi]

Good idea on the this thread. :)

I agree with sportmaxxracer. And I think this video demonstrates sportmaxxracer's point. Nose down, try not to overshoot the landing. I believe the idea is if you overshoot the landing, you bounce around on the ground and slow down. If you land on the landing, your car is more stable and you can accelerate since you are already on the ground, resulting in a high speed exit from the jump.
http://rcarchive.com/pics/2005/8thscale.wmv
9.1 megs

Edited to change video to 8th scale video. I think that shows better "nose down" type landing.

[Grant Tokumi]

If you want the most basics, I believe #1 most basic tip I can give is "start the race". Easier said than done, all so common with new racers, especially nitro. They either can't start their vehicle for one reason or another, and if they do, they break/flame out in the warm ups or on the starting line. :)

Next most basic tip. "Finish the race". Again, easier said than done as most new drivers go ballistic, lets the adrenaline get the better of them and end up crashing and breaking something. Or flaming out during the heat.

The most basics all boil down to reliability of the vehicle. And I'm not talking about armoring it with aluminum this, titanium that. I'm talking about making sure your wires are secure so they won't pull apart, making sure your ball cups are not worn where they will pop out, making sure receiver batteries are properly secured so they won't go flying out in an impact. Making sure your engine can start immediately and consistently at a moments notice, and can stay running for long periods of time without flame out. It usually takes a few race events to work out all these minor but race ending kinds of bugs. Its still bound to happen, but its better to be aware now rather than learn the hard way at the track like I've unfortunately seen many times.

[nicholcgn]

Biggest thing for me has been to learn to race my race no matter what. If I am in the front or a lap down. Constantly racing the fast guy will not help if you wreck by over pushing. When he is in front or near watch his line and see what he does. Tailgating him into the corner is a sure way to gather him up when he slows down. If you are not consistent then you cant find your problem and fix it.

As far as how I drive - Consistency first. Large chances come second when you have to have the miracle. Nothing is more intimidating than a guy behind you that is consistant and no mistakes. I bet if you watch the drivers sheets many times fastest lap does not win. Usually it is the guy just a little slower than fastest lap but who can turn the lap over and over. Turn Marshals can take 4 or more seconds. So if you make 2 mistakes you are looking at 8 seconds. How good was the fastest lap if it cost you 8 seconds to earn it. Odds are the consistent guy is not going to lose more than 4 seconds. (yea I know traffic and such. I am looking at 100's of runs over time.)

[SSexton]

Sounds like good advice for racers, I am looking for a little more basic tips for starting out, for ex.- I am just getting use to the controls and still learning to not oversteer, over rev, etc. should you change anything on the radio to reduce steering output volume, braking, in an effort to gain more consistency. I have the Mayhem, and left the small venturi in per instructions for learning. Another thing I do is to go to the local track when there is not much traffic to walk the car around the coure to become familiar with the layout, this also helps in learning because I get the car locked in a position where it needs to be moved to continue. I guess the thing is, practice a lot to learn the course and car's mannerisms. Any body have other tips?

Thanks so far

[sportmaxxracer]

Here's another, use gentle fingers. You should never hear a "click" of your controls from you pegging them. Hold the steering wheel with three fingers in a triangle formation. When you are in the infield, you probably won't ever go full throttle, keep a steady rate. It is faster to go steady then go fast and brake hard when in the turns.

[sportmaxxracer]

As far as turning, it is personal preferance. Some like to slide around turns, while others like to turn with out braking traction.

[rcguy2477]

Another big thing is letting the better drivers pass. In the heats/quals, you are running on your own clock, not competing against the other cars. If cars come up to pass you, go wide on a turn the first chance you get. This avoids crashes and prevents you from being disliked(sad, but I've seen it happen). In the main, since you are all on the same clock, you can "race" a little more, but if a person is clearly faster than you, let them pass.

[rocknbil]

....I would like to see if there is any interest in a new thread to help others learn driving on a dirt track....


I've posted this before, but for any beginner, what you need to do is learn to follow.

When you're new on the track your first thought is to get ahead, win win win. This usually ends up in corner-hacking someone or other mishaps.

By simply following someone as close as you can, anticipating that they need to slow down in corners and following them through instead of using them for a brake, you begin to get into the rhythm of both the track and the other racers. Additionally it's unnerving as hell to whoever you're following. Eventually they make a mistake and you move on up and follow the next one.

You can win many races and hone your driving skills by simply following.

[Grant Tokumi]

I am just getting use to the controls and still learning to not oversteer, over rev, etc. should you change anything on the radio to reduce steering output volume, braking, in an effort to gain more consistency.
- I add around 20% of negative exponential on radio for my steering. This allows finer steering adjustments at high speeds so I'm not so "zig zaggy" (my own word) down the straights, but still allows full steering at the end points.

- As far as braking, when I first got started in 8th scale after many years of 2wd 10th scale truck racing, one of the top racers told me that I should reduce my front brakes to the point that they still turn some when I'm on the brakes. He said since I'm used to 2wd and rear braking only, we tend to steer into turns while on the brakes. If you brake and lock all 4 wheels, the car will continue to go straight even though you are steering. By reducing the front brakes, the fronts still turn allowing you to steer the car while on the brakes, just like 2wd. This was good advice as I could really tell the difference when I did that.

[thedarkness]

Lots of good info in this thread, when I get used to new track first Ill walk the track, Every racer in every level of motorsports does this, It allows you to find the line through a track and also lets you know where the dangers are.
When I finnally start to drive the track I will roll over every jump and concintrating on my lines into and out of the corners as well as through the rough sections.Untill I feel completely confident that I know the track then I tend to go a little bigger on the jumps.

I also use a few little tips to help me drive:
Tony from tornado racing once mentioned to me, "even the best pros get distracted in a long race.The best thing to do is blink your eyes a few times and shake it out of your head"(not exactly in those words but thats basicly it)
An age old one "you car is faster on the dirt than in the air for the most part"
as always "slow is fast"
and the last peice of advice" the best drivers are always pushing 100% as you get into a set rythm and slowing down will only throw this off and cause you to make mistakes"

The last piece of advice is only good once you know the track.
Also Know your opponent, you dont want to be tailgating someone who tends to brake check, or pulling beside someone who takes a outside-in line.

[Fluke]

the lay-out of my "track" changes every week so i basically re-learn the layout each time.here's what i do to learn the track quickly:
i start the first lap veeeryy slowly.sometimes 1/4 throttle.that way i can judge the difficulties without much risk.next lap a bit faster.and faster,and faster till i reach my limit.at that point i know approximately the tracks' dangers,speed needed to jump right and overall pace.

but it is important to know your limit and stop pushing before too late

[highroller]

1. Practice, practice - learn where you can carry more speed, how far you can carry car or truck deeper into the corners. Also what you might be able to do alone is going to be harder with other vehicles on track at the same time, so try to see what other lines you can take.
2. Get to know your competition, see how they drive and know which ones will give to the faster guys - or those who think they own that section of the track.
3. Driving styles are different with buggy, stadium track or 4wd vehicles so jumps and turns may be taken a little different depending on where they are located. For jumps I like the nose up as it leaves the jumps, and level out as it lands working throttle or brake both to keep it level or set up for the next approach. Try to anticipate the next area and what you want to do before you get there.
4. Driving against other competitors sometimes is a give and take situation. While it's good sometimes to start on the front row, if you aren't sure of how the vehicle is going to react it may be adviseable to start in the rear - lay back and let the front guys mangle up and it may be possible to drive clear or the first turn pileup. Some racers have learned to give a little, by staying in on area instead of pulling down to line up for the first turn - this avoids alot of the pileups and frustration. Give a little and let them go, you will probably catch them in a lap or so - put pressure on them to make the mistake.
5. It's sportmanship and smart to give way to faster guys, after all you will want the same courtousey. Learn to drive in such a way that you can see in front or what is behind where your vehicle is on the track. That way you can avoid running into other vehicles (sometimes), and see how fast another vehicle is coming up on you. Communicate with each other on the driving stand and tell each other what you want to do if you are passing or being passed - "I'm going wide take the inside", ease off the throttle a little and let the vehicle slide out until he clears you then drive your line. Also, it depends if you and the other vehicle are on the same lap and roughly the same speed - here it's who ever can drive the cleanest - and neither should give to the other except if the other racer is just plain driving a better line. While it's not considered sportman like - you gotta put the bumper on someone to get them outta the way - but there's a way of doing it without being obvious but ask for track courtousy. That should be one thing race directors should go over at all tracks, or either announce the position (car color or number) of the vehicle in 1st, 2nd, etc plus whether they are on the same lap. Also announcing laps times is a good idea, that way you know how fast you are taking laps and who may possibly faster than you and judge when you might be getting lapped or when they will coming up on you. Then you can judge when to change you driving so you can give the faster vehicles room to get by cleanly.
6. Talk with other racers about their setups, what they do to keep vehicle(s) running so good. No matter how many years you've raced - there's always something new to try.
7. While everyone has lost their temper because of one reason or another -remember it's a hobby. Admit your mistakes when involved in an accident you caused and accept the appology when it's someone else. It's always one of those situations where you could have held back making a move but used better judgement and tried to get by or vehicle did what it shouldn't have that one time.
I got angry at a fellow racer, who cause me not to finish a race after putting him 2laps down and the rest 3-4 laps down - car was on rails and I was in the zone. Well I said a few things I shouldn't have - after all we had been friends - I never appologized to him and that night he had a brain anerism and died a couple days later. From that point on I made it a personal thing, never to get so involved that I had to win, or take rc so serious. Another thing I won't fail to admit I made a mistake or get upset when someone else causes a problem. Life for me is too short to be pissed off at other people or minor stuff.

[SSexton]

Thanks Guys for all your input- I appreciate this, it will help me to have more fun, instead of worrying about the small stuff. I like the idea about adjusting the exponential at first, and the idea of following another driver to learn the pace/course. I agree on practice/practice. One thing I have a little trouble with is the radio control for throttle/brakes. It seems to me that a seperate control for the brakes would be easier to control than having to drop the throttle to apply the brakes, this way you could power through the turns. Does anyone have any opinions on this? Or is there a set up already out there for this, if it is legal for racing?
PS- Keep the thread going!

[highroller]

The amount of braking power can be increased or reduced by the radio. During the setup of ESC you may set the radio to all neutral settings, throttle neutral and coast or drag. Then fine tune the setting based on driving style and track layout. Set the throttle neutral a little off center normally towards the right so when you ease off throttle just a fraction a small amount of brake is applied. Increase the actual braking by adjust the brake setting in small amounts but not too much that motor stops abruptly. Now when you approach a turn you can either ease off throttle slowing car just enough without using brake or use brake if vehicle is carrying too much speed.

Make the adjustments with motor in vehicle - but without pinion attached. Work the throttle listening to motor, first setup motor should continue to turn for 1-3 seconds before stopping after releasing throttle trigger, when going from throttle to brake motor should stop smoothly in about 2 seconds or less but not stop abruptly - stopping too abruptly can throw vehicle out of control. Now adjust the throttle setting to a little click to the right, as you ease off throttle you should hear motor slow down. Add or increase brake setting until motor stops when appling brake but not to the point it arcs or stops abruptly or sounds like someone applied a dead short to it. For high end radios or those with multiple setting the normal setting may be set to 100% but the actual amounts can be fine tuned - actual steering throw may be limited to 35% while throttle is 75% but you still get 100% it's just limits it to 75 when you ease off throttle a fraction quicker than just releasing throttle trigger then going into brake function. If vehicle settles enough you can now carry more speed through the turns.

[Deadhead]

I am fairly new at off road racing, but last season, I had alot of problems with the car in the air, and landings. Alomst everytime the buggy was in the air, it went end over end and I ended up crashing, of course, on the landing. If you are in the air, should you hit the gas or break? I will have to wait until the winter is over to try out landing with the nose downward.
Great thread!

[evaderstman]

To get most cars to land with nose down you let off the gas when the car starts to fly, and tap the brakes in the air. As soon as the nose touches down you want to give it some gas and go.

[Grant Tokumi]

If you are in the air, should you hit the gas or break? I will have to wait until the winter is over to try out landing with the nose downward.
You shouldn't be on either gas or brake in the air ideally. You want to be coasting off the lip of the jump and cruising in the air until the landing. The way to do a nose down landing feels a little strange but you want to actually be decellerating off the jump. You accelerate on flat ground before the jump, and around half way up the ramp, you let off and cruise the rest. No brake. Your car will naturally be decellerating off the lip because you are going up hill. It feels weird because you will need to approach the jump faster than you think in order to allow the decelleration to bring you down to the proper speed off the lip so that you don't overshoot the landing. Then in the air, you adjust your pitch with throttle/brake if you need to as mentioned above.

At around 1 minute 25 seconds in the video I linked to above, I think is a perfect jump. The person behind tries to go wide to pass outside, and when he sees that he is being blocked, he remains cool headed and doesn't plow right through the other car. Instead he lets off, stays behind, and does a text book nose down landing over the crossover, while the person ahead overshoots the landing. You can see how the nose down landing allows the driver to quickly get on the gas and be right on the guys tail again, and the one who overshot couldn't get good control in time and ended up overshooting the next turn.

The geometry of the jump also plays a big role in the behavior of your vehicle as it leaves the jump. Sometimes no matter how you drive it, you will still not be able to make a nice jump. The toe of the jump needs to be smooth without too abrupt angle changes to allow a nice jump. An abrupt angle change in the toe (like a jump made with a flat piece of wood at 45 degrees) will disrupt the stability of the vehicle and your jump will not be very nice.

[Deadhead]

Dang, now I can't wait until spring to race again!!!!

[Grant Tokumi]

Dang, now I can't wait until spring to race again!!!!
Good luck next spring. And don't forget the "start the race" and "finish the race" advice. :)

Just trying to keep the ball rolling here, how about the simple advice that tire selection is 80% responsible for the car's handling and all other car adjustments (shocks, ride height, oil, diff oil, camber, etc) account for 20%. So I've heard anyways. And I've also heard and experienced that Proline Crimefighters are like the standard "this tire will work on any track" tire. It may not the "best" tire for a track, but a good starting point.

In my area, it seems many people use OFNA dish rims. They should work on Mugen, Kyosho, Thunder Tiger, OFNA, Jammin since they are standard hexes.
http://www.nitrohouse.com/tires,_1-8_off-road_wheels.htm
Set of 6 rims for $15.96. Can't beat the price, but I can't confirm as I haven't bought tires and rims for a while since I've been lucky enough to get some old but still good hand-me-down tires from couple of the sponsored racers. :)

[Ideal]

Years ago they used to have articles on this in R/C car action.
(I'm talking 1990-93..)
Shock horror, there used to be useful stuff in there. Now it's all garbled junk.

Anyhow, like people said earlier, you can control your jump attitude mid-air by tapping the brakes, that will put the nose down. You can also floor the throttle, that will put the rear end down. What you don't want to do is too much of either! Do too much and you'll plant it head first into the ground, or rear first, and flip over sixteen times. Practice is a good thing :)

[SSexton]

- I add around 20% of negative exponential on radio for my steering. This allows finer steering adjustments at high speeds so I'm not so "zig zaggy" (my own word) down the straights, but still allows full steering at the end points.

- As far as braking, when I first got started in 8th scale after many years of 2wd 10th scale truck racing, one of the top racers told me that I should reduce my front brakes to the point that they still turn some when I'm on the brakes. He said since I'm used to 2wd and rear braking only, we tend to steer into turns while on the brakes. If you brake and lock all 4 wheels, the car will continue to go straight even though you are steering. By reducing the front brakes, the fronts still turn allowing you to steer the car while on the brakes, just like 2wd. This was good advice as I could really tell the difference when I did that.

I like the tip for steering exp. adjust, I've looked over the manual for my radio (JR) It has a lot of options, the directions are somewhat confusing to read though. I readjusted the steering exp. like you said, and will try it out today at the track. I was confused about adjusting the throttle/brake deadband though, seems to be a subtle adjustment? Ther are numerous other adjustments as well but I will leave them fact. settings for now, and try to learn them as I go along. Oh by the way I thought you might like to know that I bought a Mayhem for my starter car, I already bent the rear bulkhead slightly in a jump mishap and straightened it back.
Guess I'll spring for the upgrade on this.
Thanks for the tips, if you have any input on the above, it would be much appreciated.

[Deadhead]

Yeah crimg fighters seem to be the standard at the track here too...I think almost everyone uses them. I tried other tires a couple times, but nothing workes like those good ol' Pro Line...

[Grant Tokumi]

I like the tip for steering exp. adjust, I've looked over the manual for my radio (JR) It has a lot of options, the directions are somewhat confusing to read though. I readjusted the steering exp. like you said, and will try it out today at the track.
You could experiment by starting with 0 steering exp and run it down the high speed straight trying to keep the car straight. Then go with lots of negative exp. around -70%, drive it down the straights, and then around couple turns. See how you can control it. -70% will be easy to control in the straight but VERY twitchy in slow turns where you steer to the maximum, near the end points. I set mine where I can drive it pretty good down the straight, but no more than that so I can still do the infield as well.
I settled to around -20%.

I was confused about adjusting the throttle/brake deadband though, seems to be a subtle adjustment? Ther are numerous other adjustments as well but I will leave them fact. settings for now, and try to learn them as I go along.

I would keep deadband at 0. I think thats more of a setting for electrics. For nitro, we mechanically set a deadband using the throttle and brake linkages.

[offroaders]

i want to know is this for offroad or onroad?

[thedarkness]

well what I said aplies to offroad as Ive never raced a real onroad car(tons of VRC tho)

[Grant Tokumi]

My suggestions are from an offroader's standpoint, but many things in this thread apply to both offroad and onroad IMO.

[psiturbo]

One thing I do is play PS2 WRC Rally the day before to steam off the adrenaline and mentally prepare myself. Its like when I was in 5th grade and had to get ready for a Karate tournament I would be the day before watching Bruce Lee Fist Of Fury, LOL.