1/12 Bud SUPER CHARGER

[hederjr]

For all the bud guys out there.


http://rbinnovations.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21/products_id/159

[Micho523]

show me dyno results of the super charged engine....

forced induction on a 2 cycle engine is pointless, i spent over a year developing a turbo system to come to this conclusion.

basically, when the intake port is open, so is the exhaust, so all that happens is you use alot more fuel than normal, because it is all shoved out in the exhaust.

the only truly PROVEN method of "supercharging" in any sense is a tuned pipe, because the pipe draws out fuel/air then shoves it back in right before the valve closes via the returning sound wave that bounses of the second cone.

sorry if it seems i am yelling or being mean, just trying to save people their money for more fruitful items

[hederjr]

I guess you should ask the people who make it for the dyno results ,I just found it . If you open the link there is a section on how it works explaining the action of the super charger and tuned pipe working together.

[Ron Olson]

Save you money, buy a better engine and you'll get better results. Think about this; if superchargers really worked, wouldn't you think that they would have been on the market a long time ago?
As for putting it in a Miss Bud, you'd have to knock a big chunk out of the cowling to get it in there.
If you want one, it's your money. Report back once you get it.

[rico3]

YEAH WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE DYNO RESULTS, :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Ron Olson]

I saw them and they weren't that impressive, nothing that an engine for the same price as that blower wouldn't do.

[Mike T]

Let's analyze this thing:

It is blowing INTO the carburetor. If it did produce positive manifold pressure, the carb would not draw fuel. (Simple physics.)

A compressor wheel that size would have to turn about 180,000 rpm to produce any appreciable boost pressure (even if designed correctly). (Complex engineering.)

The drive shown there is clearly not driving at the 1:7.2 gear ratio needed to get 180K rpm and not capable of doing so. (Simple engineering.)

Conclusion: It doesn't work. As built, it can't work. The only reason any engine would actually run with it installed is if it isn't producing any boost pressure. If there isn't any boost, it isn't a supercharger.

P.T. Barnum said it best.

[zigzagracer]

All the reasons above do not make an argument against this as they as either half wrong or totally wrong.
Boost even if minute, is boost. Think of a high barometric day. or lower elevation. Air pressure goes up. Boost psi can be as low as 1 psi and still make a difference. 1 psi can be had in changing elevation.
Don't be fooled by false physiscs arguments or comments made by those who don't know what they ae talking about , the arguments presented against this are unfounded.
Given the above this device will work , but it doesn't make as much power as you think , its adds weight , it adds cost , the end result is that you don't go any faster.
You can go faster by other means , such as pipes or bigger engines.

[Burkey1000]

Dont think it would be productive to use but if anyone ever tries one then let us all know. Mich, you say you spent a year on a turbo, a turbo and a supercharger work in two totaly different ways, you cant even compare the two theories agaisnt each other. sorry yes im bored lol. :D

[zigzagracer]

But turbo and centrifugal supercharger are the same from the boost/rpm stand point. both start at low psi and gain psi as rpm of impellor increases or as engine rpm increases , where as the roots type delivers instant psi boost.
In two strokes the exhaust port and intake port are never open at the same time . it is possible to build pressure and "load" crankcase which results in a higher than normal primary compression.
It can function the same as stuffing the crankcase to get more primary compression. The limit to the effectiveness has a finite point , and is dependent on transfer timing and exhaust timing as to how effective it is , even then the powerband becomes very narrow.This is where the application of turbos and superchargers goes away. Its not that they don't work , its that there are more effective means to achieve a higher level of output than a mechanical device.
You have to be careful of slapping blanket statements on things like this , because of the all the variables involved.

[Mike T]

This "blower" question comes up about every 3 months. Someone please buy one of those and put this to rest.

[Micho523]

I am now accepting donations to supercharge my n.hammer :D

Do I smell an RCBM worthy article??? ;)

[abx131]

With the cost of the unit plus the mods required to the body to make it fit, you are better to put a bigger engine it the miss bud. That guy who put the .18 in made that baby fly and there are a few .21's out there as well. This thing looks like a gimick.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!!!!!!

[Ron Olson]

Anyone who knows anything about Drag racing and superchargers knows that it takes HP to make HP whereas a turbocharger is "free" HP by using exhaust gasses to drive the turbo. The turbo's boost does not start until a certain RPM range to sping the impeller.
ZZR, you'd better look again at the porting of a 2-cycle engine as there is a point where intake and exhaust are are indeed open at the same time as the fresh charge of fuel/air helps to push out the burned fuel. Go back an issue or 2 of RCBM and it is clearly shown in one of Tony Castronovo's articles among others over the years.

[Watercadet]

In two strokes the exhaust port and intake port are never open at the same time . it is possible to build pressure and "load" crankcase which results in a higher than normal primary compression.

***?!?! Never open at the same time!??! You are showing your ignorance here bud. Here is a picture of a Nova Rossi .21 liner. The picture is taken from the exhaust port side. Through the port you can see right through the intake ports. Tell me that these are not open at the same time.

[Mike T]

I think he meant the rotary valve and exhaust port are not open at the same time.

[zigzagracer]

I looked and I was right the first time.
The intake port and exhaust and exhaust port are not open at the same time, however transfer ports and exhaust port are open at the same.
If the all the ports were open at the same time or there was a straight shot from intake to exhaust the engine would be free ported and not run. Two strokes gain primary compression from the intake being shut while the transfers are open to force mixture into cylinder.By time the piston has risen enough that it would seem the intake and exhaust are open at the same time the transfer ports are shut , so there is no direct line between the two.
If there was a direct connection from intake port to exhaust port , the exhaust gas would blow back through carb.
Put a tube to the carb and blow through it while slowly turning the engine in the normal direction and see at what point you can blow straight through.

This topic started out by mentioning the RB Innovations product and turned into a RB bash and now me. I'm not defending the product by any means , if fact I don't feel its worth spending the money on it, but get your facts straight before you launch a campaign to slam a product you've never seen or used.

[zigzagracer]

Free porting goes against all the normal two stroke engineering disciplines I've studied. Some nitro engines may have been successsful but I've never seen a zen run freeported.
The bottomline is that the blower makes the engine think its operating at a lower elevation that it is. An engine will make 40% more power at the bottom of death valley than it will on pikes peak , this is due to air pressure.
I've made copies of this thread and forwarded them to RB , lets see what they have to say.

[Ron Olson]

I'll be anxiously awaiting their response should they decide to. I'd rather dump the $170.00 on a better engine for the Miss Bud.
I've already seen the Dyno results in a magazine article, I see no real improvement that someone couldn't see more of by upgrading to a higher performance engine.
BTW, nobody mentioned Zenoah's, they don't make one for them anyway.
Like I've said before, if superchargers and turbochargers really worked in 2-cycle engines, we would have had hundreds of them in use by now by other manufacturers.

[Watercadet]

I think he meant the rotary valve and exhaust port are not open at the same time.

Mike, once again you are right.

The intake port and exhaust and exhaust port are not open at the same time, however transfer ports and exhaust port are open at the same.

You're killing me smalls!!! Do you not own a nitro R/C motor?? Here is another angle showing the rest of the ports. As you can see the liner is like swiss cheese and they are all open at the same time at some point of the stroke.

[Micho523]

I am willing to give you the fact that the transfer ports and exhaust are open at the same time, and that would mean you have a higher pressure than ambient in the crankcase, but as soon as the transfer ports open, all that extra pressure would fly out the exhaust port. Heres a little expirement for you to do. Find your cleanest nitro engine, put your mouth to the carb, blow, and crank the engine. Tell me that the pressure does not go flying out the exhaust.

[zigzagracer]

Do a search on Kawasaki triples and see what was done with a turbo.
I'm not defending RB , I'm defending the science , its does work when applied correctly.

If you guys read my earlier comments regarding how effective this and whether or not to buy it , you wouldn't be getting all pissy. If you don't like this product or don't feel that it works , don't buy it.
I'm not sharing any thing I hear from RB because I'm done with this, email or call them yourself and start bashing them one on one instead of hiding behind a keyboard like you're doing here.

[Mike T]

ZigZag, this is a discussion, not an argument. An exchange of ideas. Everyone benefits from learning from each other. So please don't think anyone's after you. Particlularly me. It would be easier for me to just mind my own business, which is something I do a lot.

Nobody's bashing anyone. Particularly RB. I think everyone realizes one can't accept everything one reads, particularly when the writer has something to sell. One must look past the presentation to decide if it passes the sniff test. I think one need look no farther than a search on e-bay to see that not all things being promoted as superchargers and "turbos" will really do the job intended. That's part of life. Buyer beware.

Mike Tyson - Richmond Virginia - Not hiding behind anything.

[Watercadet]

Zig Zag, you have a keyboard and a screen name too?? Any hoo, I am taking issue with the missinformation you professed about ports on a R/C nitro motor's liner. I have not mentioned the supercharger in this topic at all, only pointed out that you made an inaccurate statement regaurding the operation of the motors we all know and love. I have never owned a Kawasaki triple, nore do I care if a turbo works on one. Have fun with all the information you are going to glean and withold on the RB supercharger. I am sure the R/C boating community will think that all of your vast knowledge in that area would be a shame to waste on only your grey matter.
Adam Griffiths NAMBA # 317 San Diego, CA