Why I left RC/What's wrong with RC?

[ChumsGum]

(This was taken from the "Trinity P-94....what is this about?" thread in the Electric forum. I thought it deserved its own thread.)

This hobby has become too technology driven.

I walked away from RC ten years ago because I got tired of the constant false message this sport evokes. What false message? "The more money you spend, the more fun you'll have." Everywhere you turn, you are pressured to upgrade and spend more money. This is a dark cloud that looms over RC, and it pushes people away, newbies and vets.

You buy a top of the line Associated B2 buggy, the next year, they release a B3 buggy. Your B2 now has "obsolete" written all over it. You open up a magazine to read a review on the new Ultima and it's tested with a $160 LRP stock racing ESC. Come on, how many of us that race in stock class can afford a $160 ESC? What about those insane batteries? 1200, 1400, 1700, 2000, 2400 NiCds, then there's 3000 NiMh and they tell me I have to buy a new charger for those. When will it end?

Eventually, this wears on a fellow and you're left feeling very in-antiquate unless you spend the money to upgrade.

RC became a bottomless money pit for me. I decided to sell everything I owned related
to RC and moved on to other hobbies.

A kid who brings his non-graphite buggy to track should feel every bit as good as someone who brings a Factory Team buggy. Instead though, that kid with the Duratrax ESC powered buggy is looked down upon.

To the RCCA staff:

"Why not do a shootout between the buggies of yesteryear Vs the buggies of today? I'd love to see cars like the AE Team Car, Kyosho Ultima Pro, and the Losi JRX-Pro go up against today's B3, Ultima Type-R, and the XXX. Would today's cars come out on top? Probably. Would the older cars be competitive? Without a doubt. In fact, an older car with a better driver would beat the newer car with a less competent driver.

Why not do a track test ESC shootout with two equal cars, but one car having a $50 ESC and the other with a $160 ESC? Without the drivers knowing, would the car with the $160 ESC consistently beat out the other?

My point is that you don't need to spend a lot of money to be competitive or to have
fun. The industry needs to do more to promote this message or risk loosing more customers.

dcommerce replied:
Righto chums!! Every time I tell someone they will be completely happy with a futaba magnum sport(recently on sale @ tower for $45) or a blazer sport radio, many people respond by saying to spend the most you can afford on your radio. Don't buy the fusion, buy the cyclone. Don't buy the cirrus servo, get the airtronics. Don't waste your money on a cheapo charger, get the millenium. You won't be able to compete unless you do!! If you stick with "entry level" electronics, you can probably afford two rides for the price of one. I know you get what you pay for and that all said "high end" electronics are very, very good, but the inexpensive stuff should be pushed more to get more people invovled. I have several cars, but my favorite is my ftb3 with a magnum sport, novak 410 m5(?) sport esc(10 years old), and recently trued PRO-CAM motor(also about ten years old). Why is it that my esc, as old as it is, performs just as well as my new novak and lrp esc's? I paid ~$90 back in the day, and it has no motor limit. Hasn't technology come along enough in 10 years to produce a great esc with no motor limit for around $50? It seems these companies just keep charging more and more for items that should be becoming less and less. Look at the price of computers during just the last few years. What used to be 2K is now 8 hundo. Look at camcorders. VCR's. TV's. It is maddening.

Throtl Hapie replied:
Well put, that's basically the reason I'm getting out of this hobby, probably for good.

[Throtl Hapie]

Yup. I'm planning on selling 2 of my 3 cars and just getting some extra money (going to college next year). I will not though sell my first ever RC car, it's sentimental. Even though it was NOT worth it. I remember paying 100bux for a Futaba Magnum sport radio, duratrax spike esc, s148 standard servo, and an r112je reciever about 5 years ago. What a joke. I couldn't even get reverse because it would have been another 20 dollars. And these high end esc's don't even have reverse yet they are "feature packed". I know reverse isn't allowed in sanctioned racing, but if it's got so many features, you should be able to disable it.

[BrahmaBullSQ]

i've almost been into RC now for a year and i had more fun with my traxxas rustler than i did with my new RC10T3. i wanted a team associated TC3 TEAM kit but i settled for the racer. THANK YOU GOD... because i have no intention on racing. just saved $50. more money SAVED = MORE FUN!!! ;) i'm just going to trick my TC3 out with good looking bodies. i'll still have fun.

~Shaun

[ChumsGum]

I truly think this hobby is wonderful and would love to get back into it but at its current state, the industry is eating itself alive.

"Hasn't technology come along enough in 10 years to produce a great esc with no motor limit for around $50?"
Great point dcommerce. You listening Novak?

[chizzler]

i left for a while too because of expenses about 3 years ago, but now im a little older and actually make some money to spend on fun, but i have to admit RC still gets quite pricey to keep up "raceworthy" standards

[gubbs3]

I highly doubt that the cars from way back when would come even close to the performance of new cars. When I switched from a Losi NXT to a XXX-NT my best lap time dropped by 1.5 seconds in its frist race with the stock setup. I'm not saying you have to have the latest and greatest to keep up to pace but you will lose to the better driver (which there always is) who might have the new car. And for the ESC's, you can definatly tell the difference between a budget and pro racing unit.
I think the joy of this hobby is that you CAN upgrade your car to go faster unlike the Toy's R Us cars were its the same old slow peice of junk from the fist day you bought it. If the urge to upgrade displeased you then this isn't the hobby for you. Its your choice to buy whatever you want and you don't want to buy the new stuff then either quit racing or be the B-Main winner instead of the A.

[CrazyHorse]

No offense, but I find this type of post rather pointless. Yes, I understand what it feels like to think you are handicapped by outdated equipment, but you already made the point you dont NEED it, so why be such a troll and rain on everyones parade?! I have been doing this long enough to see threads like this come and go, so this is no revalation.
Progress is inevitable and a certain number of racers just have to buy the latest stuff. Its ultimate bench racing. This isnt unique to rc cars it happens everywhere. Take computers. The computer companies spend millions of dollars promoting the latest and greatest super-computer but we all know we don't NEED it. Yet how many of us still go out and buy it?! Its Tool Time mentality. Average will do but having the latest and greatest is really cool.
The point is just go out and have fun. If you know you can keep pace with older gear go out and SHOW all the bench racers how they wasted their money. If all you are going to do is biotch about it then maybe its time to find a new hobby.

[jmglenn]

it's no different than computers, if you get the latest and greatest computer today 6months from now, "Obsolete!!" in fact 4 years from now it's a giant paper weight eek:

[william2001]

crazyhorse beat me to it, I was just going to make the same comparison with computers too.....talk about a fast moving hobby.

I still use older, worn out stuff and still win A-mains so I don't worry about it. Just take care of what you have and get your moneys worth before upgrading.

[R/C Homie]

I really think that this hobby is great. I mostly aggree with Crazy Horse, I mean if you can afford it then get it if you can or dont want too get it then dont. I started in this hobby about a year ago and i first baught a USED tricked out TL-O1 with sport electronics, then i SAVED and SAVED and finnally baught a brand new Stampede monster truck, and i had and still have so much fun with it. Just the other day i was talking to my friend who also ouns r/c's and i said "man i love my pede its so fun" he replyed not quoting because these are not his EXACT words but close. he responded I dont like the stampede, they seem like TOYS to me. I mean what do you think these originated from? They are toys, made to have fun with and maybe competitive with once in a while. So to make a long story short, I kept moving on and buying newer and better things but i'm always trading and buying used to. So you see it doesnt matter what you have just have fun. If it takes money to do that, then so be it, save untill you can buy it. No matter how much you complain its not going to lower prices. Eather spend the money or dont its up to you.

[ChumsGum]

No offense, but I find this type of post rather pointless. Yes, I understand what it feels like to think you are handicapped by outdated equipment, but you already made the
point you dont NEED it, so why be such a troll and rain on everyones parade?! I have
been doing this long enough to see threads like this come and go, so this is no revalation.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Like I said earlier, the industry is eating itself alive and something needs to be done to attract new customers and keep the ones it has continuing in the sport.

As to the computer analogy, well dcommerce said it best, a few years ago you could buy a top of the line computer for 2 grand, now you'd pay 6-8 hundred. Why have ESC's and other electronic's prices increased instead of dropped?

And for the ESC's, you can definatly tell the difference between a budget and pro racing unit.

Well, I'd like to see RCCA do a shootout like that.

If you know you can keep pace with older gear go out and SHOW all the bench racers how they wasted their money.

This is exactly what I plan to do, and if you ask me, more people in the industry should do the same.

[ 08-01-2001: Message edited by: ChumsGum ]

[KIWIRCGUY]

While I do believe its only as expensive as you make it, its also very frustrating knowing that the only thing beating you is the extra $100 or so you just dont have. Here in NZ we have gone from a decent amount of off road clubs down to just 2. If I was to get into off road again as I want to, I would have to drive 5 and a 1/2 hours to my CLOSEST track. As for touring cars I cant afford to pay $40 for the larger 48 pitch pinions we run here so my car is off pace. After 15 years of RC racing off and on, I think its finally time to sell all the race cars and get a MT and have fun, like I used to.

[combones]

Almost everything is way overpriced. 'Tis a shame. I think this hobby would really grow if the prices were not so inflated. That's life. Good thing I can afford it.
http://www.plauder-smilies.com/jump.gif

[ttrcr eb4]

I agree with what your saying about the cost.BUT its a hobby not something you have to do.Every Hobby is as expensive as YOU want to make it.I go fishing alot and that can get very expensive if I want the good stuff or I can go out with a cheap rod a real it's my preferance.What I'm getting at is you know you can have fun with the cheaper stuff so do it.If you want to spend alot of money then do it.Nothing is cheap its a hobby hobbies are expensive.

[jeepinator]

I think I started something like this in regards to tires and wheel a few months back ...
The computer and the RC industry can't be compared to each other very easily.
It's the old "supply and demand" thing. The hobby is not (yet?) big enough for the supply and demand benefit to really kick in. The volumes the manufacturers are selling just don't allow them to make gigantic purchases of IC's, for example. They are paying more becaue they are not buy 100 million at a time, like the computer industry is.
I agree with the thread starter, but I understand some of the reasons prices seem overly inflated.
Like I mentioned in another thread, the lack of standards is not helping prices any.
The distribution model is completely crazy - with manufacturers competing with their resellers (!). The competition is dwindling too, it seems. Tekin seems history, or at the very least is not a dominant player any more. Man, we could make a list of quite a few prominent RC companies that have been "consumed" by bigger companies, or have just gone away. The lack of competition raises prices possibly more than anything.

I am just offering up possible reasons, not arguing. Like I said, I agree. But like all things, there is a reason.

[Gutter Ball]

That's why I race the Spec class. Everybody has to use the same motor, spring, brush, battery and tires. Of course there are still the mega bux ESC's and controllers that play a small part, but it all still comes down to driver skill. The guys with the Cyclones, R-1's don't always win. When I first came to this board, I just started to race indoors. There was a kid there with a Tamiya Hornet placing top 3 in the A mains against fully loaded Losi's and Associated's. Almost any hobby is expensive(beenie babies, real car racing, fishing, sports, etc). I think that's what makes something a hobby. :)

[grandmasterofpool]

A lot of you don't seem to understand how a business that sells products works. The customer has a demand and the company feeds that demand with supply. It's really that simple.

Let's look at this on a larger scale. There are simple NOT that many people who are into hobby grade radio control models to justify lowering their prices.

The reason companies like Novak, Pro-line, etc... come out with new products as quickly as they can is so they can sell them and stay in business. The market for these things just isn't large enough for them to sit back and wait until your r/c wears out to come out with a new product. So what do they do? They make hopups and promote, promote, promote. What do you think pays for that precious issue of RCCA you get in the mail every month? Your subscription fees! Not bloody likely!

I agree that you can have fun with budget escs and engines, heck, I ran P4's just so I could have a Monster Pirate and a Monster Blazer, but there is a definite need for the industry to grow and grow.

Those companies are not making a killing like everyone seems to think. They have overhead costs like engineers, building leases, machinery...and on and on. Believe it or not those things aren't free.

Sometimes life just ain't fair, but hey, that's capitalism and I wouldn't have it any other way. Would you???

[cjlandry]

Man, this is a kick!

I'm new to this hobby. I got into it because of the low cost compared to my main hobby (my '68 El Camino (http://www.geocities.com/chadjlandry)).

A tiny upgrade on that beast is a couple hundred, minimum. That doesn't include the many hours of hard and sometimes potentially dangerous work.

Of course, I bought the cheapest RTR RC truck that I could find (the Traxxas Nitro Sport). I just want to learn to drive a bit before I even consider moving up in the world of RC.

I don't plan to race, but the magazines and catalogs surely make me want to spend a grand tomorrow on something that I'm not good enough to handle. Maybe someday I'll be there. For now, I'll just keep having fun driving my truck.

Enjoy what you have. Have fun with it. And don't worry about what others think.

[DerekB]

There has never been an implication that you must spend 5 billion dollars to be competitive. If you just want to have fun buy a car designed for that. I just drive the Tamiya MAd Fighter RTR and it was awesome. One of my favorite things to drive-Wild Willy 2. Both of these trucks have NO aftermarket support and never have I though of anything (besides bearings) that these trucks need. Racing is a different story. It's a competitive SPORT. When you get a racing bug (1/10 or full scale) you are going to spend money. Our hobby is very cheap considering the alternatives. Enjoy it as much, or as little, as you want.

Just a quick reminder that prices have actually dropped over the years. I look through old issues of RCCA and say I can't believe I paid that much for a truck back then.

Enjoy the hobby and have fun. You don't have to spend money if you don't want to.! :p

[HauntedMyst]

Enjoy what you have. Have fun with it. And don't worry about what others think.

Amen to that CJ! Isn't enjoying what we already have really one of our greatest challenges, not just in RC but with most "things"?

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: HauntedMyst ]

[atm92484]

Thank you Derek. I agree totally. I've only been in this hobby for 3 years but in that time the prices have come down. Heck look at the radios now. The newer ones are still as much as the old radios but they are much more advanced and include more features. How about engines? They are dropping in price almost daily.

If you want to race then race and have fun. Just get the best equipment you can afford but keep it reasonable. Heck many of the Novak sport ESCs are good. I'm running a Dual Fusion right now but I have no complaints. Also if you want to keep it cheaper stick with stock motors. IMO you don't need as much to maintain them or if you drive nitro just get a 12 CV or a 12 SPD and save some money. Both can be bought for between $80-$100. Plus the Futaba 2PC and 2PCKA are both good inexpensive radios along with the Hitec Lynx AM. Plus companies like Hitec make good inexpensive servos. A HS-615MG is $40 on Tower and it gives you something like 110oz @ 4.8v and 140oz @ 6v. Talk about bang for the buck.

You can spend a lot of money to race but are you actually able to drive this $700 TC to its full potential or would a $400 TC do just as well for you?

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: atm92484 ]

[TC3Racer316]

I agree ,atm. I run a Team TC3 w/ graphite chassis. I run a P2K and Novak Fusion and consistently get into the A-main.

[BlackWolf]

I feel a lot better if I think of buying the "best" entitles to BRAGGING RIGHTS.

If you wanna play, you gotta pay.

I'm willing to pay the extra money to have the fastest strongest servo on the market because I like the way it makes my car handle.

Personally, I think the prices for some of the stuff we buy in this hobby to be downright criminal. I know the companies can charge anything they want, and because they hold that corner of the market, or they're the only company that makes a particular product dosn't give them the right to **** us.

I found out; the best thing to do is to bend over and take it like a woman. Unless I go and hold the LHS at gunpoint, and help myself to everything behind the counter, I'm stuck paying the premiums.

It's all part of the hobby. Think of it like the computer industry. As soon as you leave the store, somthing newer comes out, and you're left with "JUNK". The "junk" still runs great, and gets me through the day. I can't brag to my friends and family anymore, and they understand.

[jeepinator]

atm92484, I agree with the servo thing you siad. Servos have made HUGE strides in the last few years. Of course they are wildly expensive ($110 for a servo ?), but the performance is amazing.
S148's kick but ! :p

[clancy]

Have you ever raced real cars? Comparatively this is a very inexpensive hobby. I have a couple of kids at my local track that hang out in my pit on race day. And they don't have much money to spend on upgrades and the like. However they spend a lot of time tuning what they have. Most people I have seen don't want to spend "time" tuning their vehicles but rather spend "money" buying trick products and slapping them on. It will be faster but only in a straight line. I think someone earlier said it best it is a "hobby". And with bolink and trinity starting up streetspec classes a few years ago it allowed people to race against others of the same ilk who did not want to spend that much on their cars. If you look at the esc situation from an accounting standpoint you will see that esc's are produced in relatively small quantities vs computers and the fixed costs have to be met thus the cost of the esc isn't that high. if fixed costs are 50k and variable costs are $10 the cost of one esc would be $50,010, pretty expensive. Howeverif you build 10k of them the price per unit will drop down to a much smaller number. :p

[outsider]

The Fusion and P2K are a great cheap combo. I recently reentered the sport after a haitus because prices have fallen over the 10 years. Lots of things have changed too. It's still expensive but better. Look at skateboarding and xtreme sports. A couple years back they were going out of style. I almost saw no one boarding anymore on the street. Then they started televising the X games trials and the x games on espn, espn2, and even network stations. Then things started picking up again. I see alot of kids skating now, but not only white kids, but kids off all walks of life and it puts a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye :D . If they started televising RC races on TV (I mean on main stream cable like espn2, espn, speedvision, abc, etc.) Then the sport would catch peoples attention, kids will put down their Playstation controllers and pick up a radio and the world would unite in peace, and.... well you get the idea. Demand would go up, prices would fall, we'll all be happy. Get as many people into it as you can!

[Interceptor]

I felt the same way when I retired from paintball. After ten years in the sport, the whole attitude changed over to the tournament mode, it was actively encouraged for players to cheat if possible, to keep playing if you are hit until a ref calls you out, and that you could not compete unless you had a $1000 chome electric super gun with turbo mode. Instead of playing with less paint to improve your skill, players on a regular walk on field are carrying a case of paint (2500rds) and using it up in only two 10 minute games. screw that. I got burnt out from working at a shop and the attitudes I saw made me sick. Long story short, I sold every peice of gear I had and will never play again. I am happy just kicking around at my local track on saturdays, we race, but I have yet to see a b main, everyone who runs runs in the a main. Its all about having a good time instead of being all serious.

[tarheelquality]

I dont know why people complain about prices unless they just have not been around the hobby long enough. Ib the 80's I paid $220.00 for a Turbo Optima with no motor or electronics. Now for that 220.00 I could get a ready to run car that will run circles around my tubo optima and have money left to bye batteries. The overall pice has gone down and the quality and performance have gone up and thats not even including taking inflation into account. Also nobody should forget these are "TOYS" yes they perform well, they can be fixed and upgraded, and we do race them, but their main purpose is for playing and having fun and if you forget that you will not enjoy the hobby and will probaly ruin it for someone else. :) SO just have fun and stop fussing so much :)

[Throtl Hapie]

I am going to try a nitro car, keep it for a while, then probably sell it next year. I never ahd a nitro car so I might as well blow some money (I've made $4k+ this summer and I've spent none of it on me yet.) :)

[roadrage]

This reminds me of Lionel trains. I collect Lionel trains and they are very expensive. I mean 1000 dollars for a locomotive when it's labled "toy". Is this going to happen to rc? Please god no!!

[BlackWolf]

roadrage said:
This reminds me of Lionel trains. I collect Lionel trains and they are very expensive. I mean 1000 dollars for a locomotive when it's labled "toy". Is this going to happen to rc? Please god no!!

My goodness. I wish I had not given all of my Linonel trains away :( :( :( :(

Years from now, I bet most of our RC "junk" will be worth a pretty penny.

I keep hoping that someday in the future, the original IBM XT computers that I've got in the toolshed will go the same route as the lionel trains did :/

[ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: BlackWolf ]

[SirSpeedy]

OK guys,

Maybe someone has hit this, maybe not.....I am not goint to read all that above....

This is RACING!! You do not have the right to race RC cars! If you can't afford it, or won't pay the price to race, then don't! I really don't see where all this complaining comes from. If you think that you need a $160 speed control to be competitive, you are on the Good Stuff......

It still takes a good driver to win....if you aren't, then I guess harping on cost of tires/wheels/inserts/motors/brushes/batteries/ESC/Servos/kits/ is as good an excuse as any.....

[primuswoostinkinhoo]

this yr working ive made something like 10,000 dollars, ive probably spent 6 or 7000 of that on rc i look back and good geez i coulda baught a real car but that wouldnt be as fun as racing is everyone i thinks im crazy till i bring them to a race and let them drive in novice, ive braught 3 or 4 people into this money pit just letting them race novice its just that much fun that money doenst really mean anything tome anymore

[Throtl Hapie]

Hi, I understand english, what are you typing in? :D

PS
I agree that painballing it THE worst. I've gone 2 times, I had to rent a gun, which costed money. I had to register (I don't know why) which costs money. I had to buy paint, which cost A LOT of money.

[DerekB]

I play paintball. A cheap way is to get some friends and go into the woods and paint each other silly. Limit the paint and the cost is less.

Any hobby cost money. That's why it's a hobby. You have something to do that you enjoy and don't mind wasting time or money on it.

[ChumsGum]

This is RACING!! You do not have the right to race RC cars! If you can't afford it, or won't pay the price to race, then don't! I really don't see where all this complaining comes from. If you think that you need a $160 speed control to be competitive, you are on the Good Stuff......

It still takes a good driver to win....if you aren't, then I guess harping on cost of tires/wheels/inserts/motors/brushes/batteries/ESC/Servos/kits/ is as good an excuse as any.....
SirSpeedy, this is exactly what I'm saying, but yet the industry promotes $160 ESCs and doesn't do enough to promote the "be competetive at any level" message. Because it doesn't, this hobby is turning people away from it and the industry is slowly eating itself alive. Yesterday, Twister Motors, today, Tekin Electronics, tomorrow ???. No competition means Novak, Trinity, and others will keep prices high and the industry will never see new people getting into RC. This is why I'm complaining. I want to share RC with my future childrein and want something left them.

[ProjectTwin]

Here is a post I made on another forum, where a guy referred to an "inferior" vehicle as a "POS"...

There is a broad range of people in this hobby, for some a Mugen is too much car, for some a Wild Willy is a toy. They each have their place, and their target market. Not all vehicles are for everyone. We have our own tatses/wants/expectations out of a vehicle. The POS is relative to your point of view.

A prime example. All of us here own "Hobby Level" R/C's, but yet go to the lounge and check out the interest in the Tyco canned heats. Go to RCMT and check out the Canned Heat forum there. These are 18-20 dollar K-Mart and Wal-Mart Tycos! But look at the interest that's spooled up in them. These are your most basic R/C "toys" and the hobby level guys are eating them up! Modifying them, lifting them, making them faster, Heck. I even built a tuber!


I remember in '85-'86 when I lived in Arkansas. Kids at school were running Clods, Monster Beetles, and I think there was an RC-10 or two in there. Immediately I wanted one. That's when I started reading RCCA. I was reading when the Big Bear was reviewed, and although I don't own the issue, I remember the picture of it. A low 3/4 front view from the passenger's side front. I wanted one so bad. I begged and pleaded with my parents...never worked. I finally tried for a Frog...no luck. I finally talked them into a 30 dollar Wal-Mart special. (I wish I still had it.. :( ) At 11 years old, I loved that car.

Finally in '91 (heading into my senior year) I picked up a Kyosho Double Dare. Dad got mad....made me get rid of it.

Jump forward to '95. I'm stationed in Hawaii and picked up a couple of TAO-2's. One street car for me (limited edition chassis) and a Ford Pre-Runner for Mina. We beat the crap out of those two vehicles, and still have them.

Jump ahead a bit more to 2000. Hired at LHS to work in R/C section. Less than a year later, Twin is featured in R/C Nitro.

My point here is that at one time or another we all cut our R/C teeth on R/C "crap", but at that time you didn't even know it was crap...because you were too busy having fun.

That's what hobbies are all about, having fun. You don't need to go from 2000's to 3000's to have fun...

Jason

[nitrovig]

you like the old time stuff?? well, start a "vintage" class...they got'em in motor-cycles. but i wouldn't want to walk around with a big "L" on my forehead (i say this with respect) vig

[chucksolo]

A lot of the "money pit" mentality comes from those that think racing is all there is to R/C. I love this hobby and have not raced and don't plan to. I run my cars purely for the enjoyment of watching and experiencing these little machines for the mechanical marvels they are. I have to admit, I have been completely turned off on racing for the simple reason that there exists a certain "elitest" faction that does indeed look down upon anyone showing up with a Traxxas or Duratrax vehicle or heaven forbid.....an analog 15 minute timed battery charger. These are the people who own Serpents and Mugens and probably have never won a race in their life. To them it's like the guy/gal who goes skiing just to show off his/her latest outfit and never ventures out of the lodge. The bottom line is just have fun with it; I wonder if the "elitest" crowd, who just has to have the most expensive stuff, does really truly, enjoy the hobby?

[jeepinator]

Amen.

[Rick Hohwart]

tarheelquality is 100% correct. Aswl anyone who ever raced a Yokomo Super Dogfighter. You HAD to have hops ups that were more expensive than the car kit itself just to be able to get around the track for one heat. We are not talking performance parts -- but parts that kept the thing running.

And the computer analogy is correct although not exactly in the way it is presented. The latest computer is always about the same high price. A new better one is introduced and it runs about the same price as the one it replaces -- just like car kits, ESCs, and motors. What is different with computers is that there is a big market for the older models that are suitable for many tasks. If 40% of the population raced R/C cars then I am sure you would see older model parts at discounted prices. But the market is too small to work the same way as the computer market or electronics market for that matter.

Bottom line is you get much more for your money now than you did even 5-6 years ago.

[roadrage]

Derek said
Any hobby cost money. That's why it's a hobby. You have something to do that you enjoy and don't mind wasting time or money on it.
This isn't true. There are many hobbys that won't cost you a dime. Sports, building boats from scrap wood. But this is R/C. There are some kits that are fast and cheap. Some kits that are expensive and what you would race at a tournament. Stop and think about this. Everything you want is here. You have cheap Duratrax ESC that perform well enough to have fun. You have Cheap mod motors such as speed gems that go fast. These expensive things make your car go slightly faster. This slightly faster may be everything in a big race. So you can drive fast and have fun at a cheap price. There are nitro RTR kits at tower hobbies for 200 bucks!! I'm not complaining about this hobby because I know how to limit my spending. So just have fun. We live life for fun and to impress. If you live to have fun, have fun. If you live to impress, impress. I know it's sad, but its true. :p

[ChumsGum]

Rick Hohwart from Peak Performance? Good to hear from you.

[SladeHayes]

There is a very good lesson I learned about a year ago, and I got the chance to learn it vicariously through my old boss:

He is a businessman here in the Tampa Bay area, and has a love for Ferraris, and owned/owns part of a Le Mans Ferrari team (he also has something like 6 street Ferrari's, but that is not important now). He would come into the office and talk about how they did the past weekend at Sebring and Daytona or where ever, and how he blew up a 50k engine (or three) that they LEASE from Ferrari, and not bat an eye. Or he would lament on how the car was not as good as last year because they did not have enough time to practice with it at Sebring, because they could not rent the track for the weekend that they could get the team flown in from where ever they are from.

Bottom line here is that competitive racing, at ANY level will cost money. Motocross, Mountain bikes, Karting, BMX, anything that is raced will cost money. Take a long hard look at F1 if you really want to vomit. We all go into the LHS knowing that there are a ton of parts that we don't need to be any faster, or a better driver, but we always seem to leave with what we needed (motor spray) and something we WANTED (new ESC). That is part of the sport, and also part of being (sadly) human. Do I need carbon fiber handle bars on my mountain bike? No, but they are on there. Why? Because I wanted them, and they look cool, and they also happen to be stronger than aluminum bars, but they are cool, and that is what sold me. That is what fuels this sport, and any sport. Jeremy McGrath sells bikes when he wins, just like Kindwald, Francis, and Pavidis sell chassis and parts when they win. Will I be as fast as Jeremy if wear the same boots as he does, or will I be as smooth as Brian if I have the same ESC as he does? No. Of course not. Can I say 'I have the same ______ as _______ does? Sure. That is the part of any sport, and that is part of the fun.

Playing with my old RC-10 in the yard is still fun, but racing my B3 in a highly competitive sense, is more fun, FOR ME. That does not apply to anyone else but me, as it is my cash that I part with, just it was like my bosses 4 million that he spent on his 'hobby'. It is what you put into it. I started with a Grasshopper, and fell in love with it. I got my but kicked by people that had JUNK for cars, and stomped people with pockets far deeper than mine....but it still was fun, and still is. It is very very true that this sport is more affordable now more than ever, and for us that have been in the sport we appreciate that more than anyone, and the newcomer will learn that over time. The pros need the newcomers to fuel the hobby, and the newcomers need the pros to develop cars and parts that are better, cheaper and stronger than their predecessors. That is the constant with any sort of racing sport, and does not mean that you have to race to have fun. I don't have the cash or the desire to have a Le Mans car, but I do like racing, and my RC car is more than enough fun for me.

I remember the Yokomo Super Dog Fighter, and the Losi/Yokomo C4, oh how I wanted one of those!