Survey Tampering

[SteveP]

It was brought to my attention via email that a survey we'd posted on the Car Action homepage was being tampered with by a select few individuals.
We have received approximately 20 emails recently regarding the lack of oval racing coverage, so we posted a survey in an effort to determine if we are in fact underestimating the oval community in our coverage in the magazine. The following are posts from another BB which were included in the email I received alerting us the fact that attempts were being made to heavily swing the results:

From: NatureBoy
Date: 2/21/2001 8:09:54 PM Eastern
Hey I posted my vote for 1/10 Oval/Dirt oval. No matter what, they have us paved/carpet oval guys misrepresented anyway. If you vote for 1/12 they will count it as road course, if you vote for Oval they will dilute the votes between dirt and other surfaces. They know the score. And they know html as well as I tried to vote twice using the back button and it wouldn't let me. Said one vote per visit. Gee this cable modem is nice. You know you can close Internet Explorer, reopen it, go back to their web site and vote again all in about 15 seconds. Not that I would vote more than once anyway but just good information for my web site development knowledge. Team Albertsons I bet you didn't know this and you are a for sure web site devloper, huh? BT, :-))))))

and another:

From: Team Albertsons
Date: 2/22/2001 3:25:33 PM Eastern
Crap!! You have to have your cookies turned on to vote now. I wonder if that has anything to do with me voting 1100 times between last night and this morning?

and yet another:

From: Team Albertsons
Date: 2/22/2001 4:29:00 PM Eastern
Well the fix is in. I watched 12th scale go to 18% while Nitro offroad fell to 16%. All of a sudden Nitro offroad jumps to 20% while 12th scale falls to 14%. All with only a 95 vote increase in the total. Well I wasted 30 minutes making my last 200 votes.


After reading this, I asked our web director to look into it, and because we just posted a simple survey without the typical security features built in, a select few decided to flood the survey for their own benfit in the oval and 1/12-scale category. In fact, only 9 people were responsible for over 1800 votes in these two categories.

To those responsible, thank you for trashing our sincere effort to get the pulse of the market. I guess we'll have to wait on running more surveys until we have stronger security features installed because some of our visitors can't handle the responsibility of simply voting ONCE.

[This message has been edited by SteveP (edited 02-22-2001).]

[B3 Bomb]

Some people are really good at screwing good things up, like the RCCA chat people coming in and cursing out the admin. try to use your common sence if you have any.

[bullfrog]

man what selfcentered buttheads man they just had to go out a ruin the servey just for thier ultra big egos what a bunch of dumps.

[timesheet]

Hey Steve, are they from southern Florida? http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/cool.gif

[XXXER]

i have three things to say
1: These KIDS need to get a life
2: These kids have too much time on their hands
3: These kids need to get a life

I stress the above statement because i am sure you can all agree.......
1800 votes, that is unreal!
My vote was for 1/10 Electric off road FYI LOL

I was wondering why oval was so popular....i understand the nitro off road, and the electric, but come on, oval? please.....

[tie-rod]

now i remember why i quit racing pan cars mainly on ovals many years ago then started racing 1/10 gas trucks about 5 years ago and ever since , not only do them oval guys cheat at the track they even cheat in simple surveys , now i remember...LOL

[Distro]

User polls on the net are always messed up because it is terribly difficult to stop people from voting only once. If you can it would be easier to put a card in with the next issue of RCCA with a unique code on it. Then have the person take that number and enter it in on the website, enter their address and other information. This way it makes it alittle less easy for people to cheat. This it will delay the readers choice awards abit but they would be more accurate.

[This message has been edited by Distro (edited 02-23-2001).]

[Aussie_Man]

2000 times is lame, that would me about 4 hours. Even so, I would never do that, stuffs the piont of the survey.

[ammoace]

You guys have our email address when we registered. Can't you send a simple email with the same survey. This way it might give you a chance to stop multiple voting and multiple registraton. It wouldn't bother me to receive this type of email. The only catch is people not on this board would not get a chance to reply. With that said the post card in the mail idea sounds good.
AMMOACE

[SteveP]

The problem is not with the Reader's Choice survey; it was a weekly survey about what types of cars you would like to see covered in the magazine. We just took it down because the results would have been useless.

[mexican_speed]

Hey now, don't go bad mouthing oval racers, I happen to enjoy this catagory. Tell you the truth I didn't even vote for more coverage. Those "kind" of people give *everbody* a bad name in this hobby.

[NitroDrew]

I wondered what was up. I mean I love all forms of R/C, but I'd never seen so many people excited about dirt oval! What Meat Heads!

[SteveP]

Drew - It's people that want to get more information printed about a type of car they like - there's nothing wrong with that. Some of them just took it a little too far.

[hock42]

Yes there was obivously some tapmering. But I'm sure it didn't only happen will oval. Off-Roaders and TC guys were panicing I'm Sure.

It just shows how badly we want some kind of mention. As it says in a Dr Seus book "WE ARE HERE! WE ARE HERE! WE ARE HERE!"

[Team Albertsons]

I was just wondering where I violated your rules? "Only one vote is allowed per visit!" is what it said on your returned message page. If I choose to visit 1300 times where did I violate your rules? The quote I prefer is "there is no bad press" and at least now we got some press! Some thing that has been sorely lacking in your magizine.

[Ovalman12]

SteveP: The information that you took from that "other board" was copyrighted by the owner, and I don't believe that you asked permission to post it on your site. BTW, anybody who was wondering, the other site is The Conference (http://www.deccosoftware.com/forum/thehost.htm) and is a very good site.

I was also one that posted numerous times. I find it hard to believe that Oval went from %30 of the vote to %10 in one night, and Nitro Offroad jumped up very high, so quickly.

I think that you should do another Oval Car shootout, since it has been a while since the last one. You have done all other types of shootouts, so why not another oval one. I can remember 2 sport truck shootouts, 2 clod shootouts, a Nitro touring shoot out, nitro truck shootout. etc. There are lots of oval cars out now that weren't out when you had the last one, plus more 12th scale cars then last time. It would make for a good article.

one more thing, there were more Oval racers at the Snowbirds then there were onroad racers.

thanks.



[This message has been edited by Ovalman12 (edited 02-23-2001).]

[RichieRich]

Whatever. YOu knew what you were doing. Stop trying justify your actions with a silly technicality.

[NitroDrew]

SteveP: Of course there's nothing wrong with liking Dirt Oval and trying to get it more attention! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif As I said, I love all forms of R/C! It would just be nice if they'd use the survey like it was meant to be used.
Peace!

[atm92484]

I'm not trying to flame, but you guys go and mess up the survey. Then you come here with your technicalities and try to get RCCA to do what you want. That just isn't right. Thats like going, breaking into someones house, then asking them later if you can have something.

[This message has been edited by atm92484 (edited 02-23-2001).]

[XXXER]

Getting technical screws up not only you, but many others as well, It is people like you that abuse priviliges that get the chat taken down, and just cause flame wars, much like this, so please, just be rational....

[Ovalman12]

Why don't you guys like oval? Please be specific and don't say "its boring" or "its to expensive" or "because people like you", try and come up with some good reasons, and I will try and put some of those misunderstandings to rest.

I realize that to the magazine, that Oval is not profitible to cover, but they could do some coverage. I mean they push touring cars and nitro everything till it's not even funny even more.

I don't have anything against TC or Offroad or other forms, as I have an electric Tc, Nitro TC and serpent Impact, and race all of them, but I like oval the best. why? because it is challenging. It is harder to set up an oval car to turn perfectly everytime in one dirrection then it is to setup my TC's, in my oppinion.

well, post your replies and I will get back to you.

cya.

[Nairb]

Who ever said they hated oval racing? I never did. Actually, it sounds like fun, but I'm unaware of any place around me that does it. Who wouldn't like 5 full minutes of full-throttle four-wheel-drifts? My one true love is still 1/10 electric off-road, though.

[Ovalman12]

That is a common misconseption, the fast way around the track is not 4 wheel drifting, but rather carrying as much speed as possible threw the corner. In most races, motors and batteries don't win races, but a good handleing car that can pass in the corners.

[bobcedric]

Its not that most people hate Oval racing, its just the repetitive nature of the racing is not to everyones taste.

There are those that find the pursuit of setup, concentration and skill more exciting on oval. And others find that on circuits, or on off-road surfaces.

I myself like Rallying, as to me its the most challenging of popular motorsports. Just as others see the same in Formula 1 ,and in Nascar.

Its all opinions. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[DerekB]

Guys,

There is nothing wrong with liking oval, but the point we are trying to make if you oval guys want to spread the joy of oval, then "fudging" surveys, and posting "we don't get this" or any such negative things does NOTHING for you. I will skip the facts on the number of TC sold vs ALL pan cars together (because you don't want to know), but that sheer number of TC sold is a good number of popularity.

If you really want to promote oval racing and not just play the Everything else stinks game try starting a positive thread where complaining about what you don't have is left out. Instead try to focus on the positives and be happy when you get some coverage (I'm pretty sure we do more than most of the other publications).

I could never understand how bashing us and threating us would cause us to do more for you? The nice guy gets stuff.

Derek

[Oyster]

Copyright Violation!? LOL LOL LOL LOL... ok ok, I'm done.. no wait... LOL LOL!!!

- Jon

[Ovalman12]

Yes, Copyright violation. The people on that board pay for a membership. That keeps snotty little kids off the forum.

No one bashed other forms of racing Derek. I like TC and 10th scale gas onroad, but I also like Oval. I know that oval is not as popular as TC, but you guys should do more to cover it, it would get bigger. Yes, TC's are sold more, but that is because newbies are going to buy a TC over a Oval car, because a TC has more uses. Oval cars are meant for one thing, racing.

[racedirtoval]

Believe me I do not want to get into another long fight over whose style of racing is better,I just want to set the record straight on wether you need alot of motor to win in dirt oval.I race gas dirt oval w/ a o.s cv and do quite well against picos and novarossis,and so do others, cause our cars handle well and when they dont we get beat,simple as that.Its alo very easy to over power a oval car so set up and ability to read a track IS everything!
chris
"cant we all just get along"

[R_C_MAN]

Whether your in TC, Oval, or Off road, we are all still in the same hobby and that's R/C.

[R_C_MAN]

Ovalman12- First I just want to say I have nothing against oval. Maybe the idea of having to pay a fee to join that BB backfires. This free BB has lots of beginners on it which is good. This BB is full of mostly TC, Off-road, and Monster trucks. Not a lot of oval. Most of the beginners will usually choose a car out of those categories. That sight having a fee to keep out the "snotty little kids" could just be keeping out potential oval racers.

[DJ BlendeR]

Hey Derek, you said the good guys get the stuff? In that case, did I ever tell you your the best admin. on this BB and that I would really like a ST? hint hint... oh boy, I think my nose got a lil more brown...

I didnt check the survey, because personally I dont think that mag can get much better. It puts alot of info in for being a monthly mag.

Hey Timesheet, that was funny! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[cc488]

What ovalman is trying to say is that you can run all the "other" cars anywhere, whereas an Oval car is run only on a track (or prepared surface).

I think any hobby runs in peaks and troughs, and oval has been in its trough, and when the battery situation settles out, oval will be back.

I have a TC3, set up to the instructions, the basic set up, it will run fast and handle good. An oval car is an individual beast, it isn't the easiest thing to set up, to go real fast, which you have to do running oval. You have to be able to hit the same line EVERY time. Its not for everybody, but is a blast when you get it right. And that's the attraction for lots of people.

Chuck Carter

[XXXER]

I have nothing against oval, but it is not appealing to me, plus, i have no where to race it, and i dig the more technical stuff of Off Road.

[ammoace]

I am currently working a deal from this BB for 2 road cars. 1 oval and one road course. I have been an avid offroad person since 86. I don't see how anyone that has watched a NASCAR race, IROC, or the Indy 500 can say that oval isn't technical. Think about the all out speed, drafting, wedge, and racing lines in oval racing. The amount of setup time must be enormous in the full scale cars and R/C. I am hoping that the 10L3 oval I am getting can be used on a flat oval and the road course my R/C club is putting in. If it doesn't at least I still got my T-maxx to play monster truck madness with. What I am getting at is like most of you, I refuse to limit myself to just one type of R/C vehicle. That is the appeal of R/C to me. It has a little something for everyone.
Steve and other RCCA guys,
I agree with everything you have said so far. But, maybe if you did more articles on Oval this genre could share in the greater popularity of the other R/C types. How can anyone expect any type of R/C to be popular if the people don't know what it is about? Granted the R/C type in question must also be able to satisfy those who do give it a try. For example; we can't just focus on R/C Motorcycles because they are the "Thing" now and forget about R/C Tanks because they were the "thing" last year. Chances are a lot of your readers are still playing war with their tanks. Out of twelve months of the year I would hope a magazine as popular as RCCA could fit an Oval car Review or race into it somewhere. I haven't read anyone ask for Oval Car Action Magazine to be published. Oh great, now I probably started something. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
AMMOACE

[This message has been edited by ammoace (edited 02-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ammoace (edited 02-24-2001).]

[Ovalman12]

I think that the battery misconception maybe keeps people away too. YEah, some people have a lot of batteries and motors and a dyno, but not everyone has to. I have a dyno, but don't bring it tot the track. 1 guy brings a dyno, and he will dyno anybodies motor for free, novice to expert. Also, all spectrums use the same batteries, and If you race a 4cell class you have to buy less batteries. Plus everyone uses the same motors and chargers.

Oval cars may be a little more expensive then TC's, but there are people at my track racing 6 year old cars who are still winning even in the mod class. Unlike TC's, a hot new car doesn't come out every 6 months that is a need to have car. Almost every car can be competitive.

Also most tracks have a spec class of some sort, and that is always a cheep way of getting into it.

I mean look at it this way, Pro mod oval uses 9 and 10turn motors and 3000 cells. Pro mod touring uses 8 and 9 turn motors and the same 3000 batteries. Every other oval class with the exception of long 12scale races use the same 2400's as every other kind of racing. that is why I do not understand how people can say that oval is more exspensive then other forms of racing.

[ovalnator]

Ovalman12, your right. We all know that we try to buy the best of everything as it is. I think instead of asking how many people LIKE oval racing, we should ask how many people would be interested in oval racing. Take dirtoval for example. How many people have actually seen an east coast modified? Chances are, if you live in the north east, you have, but if you live out west, you havent. I know sprint cars are run all over the country, and so are late models, but not the ECM. What Im wondering is if the Admins would print an a short article that features a couple dirt modifieds; both full blown out racers and simple offroad converted chassis. I have a few cars, I could take pictures and write up what I did to each car, and if it got printed and the world got to see it, Im sure it would spark an interest. I think it would be a good way to help revive dirt oval, a class Ive been running for 10 years.

[Ovalman12]

XXXER: would you say that offroad is more forgiving then Onroad or Oval? Have you ever tried oval?
I have seen where Matt Francis said that offroad was the most forgiving class, which makes it seem easisiest to me.

[SWTour]

As one of the OVAL racers who only posted ONCE, but who also feels magazine coverage and product sales are a misleading vision of R/C Racing in general.

Just because OVAL cars are not the HOTTEST selling product on the market people assume NOBODY runs or cares about OVAL.

Too often when only think because something is the TOP selling PRODUCT that it's somehow "The Best"

On the magazines defense, they get thier advertising revenue from products that can AFFORD to advertise. WE Oval racers have to stick together, work together, advertise in the places WE are, and market our product to OUR market~!

I call for OVAL mfg's NOT to advertise where their money is not respected or getting them any sales.

Advertising and Magazine coverage go hand in hand to some degree. If a mag like RCCA covers the SnowBirds, and OVAL Product companies advertise in THAT months issue of the magazine, they will probably be seen.

[XXXER]

Sorry, when i said technical, i meant the turning more than left, if you get what i mean, i also like the jumps, and yes, i have heard of some oval tracks that have jumps, but I like turning more than just left.

[XXXER]

I have only tried off road, it is just the most appealing to me, that is all.

[Nairb]

I think I speak for myself and Steve when I say this: we dig electric off-road, period. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Nairb (edited 02-26-2001).]

[DerekB]

SWtour-

It's posts like this that will deter people from being interested in any form of racing. I worked at a hobbyshop for 6 years and been racing for twice that and the number one reason for people not racing is racers with bad attitudes, not matter what form. Do yourself and Oval a favor and project a positive aspect of oval and not blame everything under the sun for its decline. I have tried before to get you guys to start a positive post, but I guess deaf ears are listening.

"As one of the OVAL racers who only posted ONCE, but who also feels magazine coverage and product sales are a misleading vision of R/C Racing in general.
Just because OVAL cars are not the HOTTEST selling product on the market people assume NOBODY runs or cares about OVAL.
Too often when only think because something is the TOP selling PRODUCT that it's somehow "The Best"
On the magazines defense, they get thier advertising revenue from products that can AFFORD to advertise. WE Oval racers have to stick together, work together, advertise in the places WE are, and market our product to OUR market~!
I call for OVAL mfg's NOT to advertise where their money is not respected or getting them any sales.
Advertising and Magazine coverage go hand in hand to some degree. If a mag like RCCA covers the SnowBirds, and OVAL Product companies advertise in THAT months issue of the magazine, they will probably be seen. "

[SWTour]

DerekB

>>It's posts like this that will deter people from being interested in any form of racing. <<

First off WHAT in my post is NEGATIVE? And WHAT do I blame for the decline in OVAL RACING? I personally don't see a decline, I see an increase. Just because the MAGAZINES don't cover it, does NOT mean it doesn't exist.

>>I worked at a hobbyshop for 6 years and been racing for twice that and the number one reason for people not racing is racers with bad attitudes, not matter what form. <<

I would disagree with that statement, and personally feel that while people with BAD ATTITUDES don't help this hobby, I'd bet you would find more people leave out of boredom, and TONS of changing NEW PRODUCTS.

>>Do yourself and Oval a favor and project a positive aspect of oval and not blame everything under the sun for its decline.<<

I already addressed the fact that I personally feel OVAL RACING is on the increase and NOT a decrease. Also the only thing I've ever blamed for the original decline in oval racing is "NARROW SPECIALTY CARS"

>>I have tried before to get you guys to start a positive post, but I guess deaf ears are listening.<<

Huh.... speak louder...I can't hear you....

[DerekB]

Since this thread has taken a turn for the worse I am closing this.

Sink evil thread, sink!