First time - looking for radio help

[RBill]

Heya =)

You're going to have to forgive the stupid questions that follow, but I've just bought my son a RC Rustler and I'm having some difficulty getting the radio receiver to respond.

After a 15 year break from RC, I've decided to slowly get back into the hobby by starting off my son on a cheap car. I purchased a Phantom radio set for use with the car, and that kit included the controller, a receiver, steering and throttle servos - crystals included.

Here is my problem.

I followed the instructions and installed the servos and receiver onto the car's frame and attached the speed control that came with the car kit. Everything appears to be working smoothly (engine and front wheel assembly rotates smoothly).

However, I have no radio control whatsoever.

The speed control has a black / red wire with a 3 prong adapter that I assume is the power supply for the receiver (the documentation has nothing outlined for the purpose of this wire).

My first car (15 years ago) had a battery pack that was installed inside the car and had a power switch. This kit has instructions that say the included speed control handles the power supply for the receiver so a switch and battery pack is not required.

Basically, after all this rambling...I'm looking for a troubleshooting guide / list of things to do in order to provide radio control to the receiver.

Do I need to purchase a battery pack and power switch (actually, a switch came with the Phantom radio kit) and not use the speed control for the receiver power supply?

Do I need to....????

I hate to bother any of you with questions that might be trivial to someone who knows what they're doing, but I'd really like to get this working asap.

It's been a long time my Son has been asking for this, and after purchasing it for his birthday 2 days ago, it's really frustrating having it assembled and not working properly.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[jboyce13]

first of all, don't feel bad for asking trivial questions, i can say for myself that some of the questions people think are trivial are valid, and half of them i do not know the answers too.
i had problems with that too, kind of. make sure that you plug everything into the reciever in the correct slots, and not backwards. my hitech servos will plug into my futaba receiver both ways. just something to check.
do you have any communication between your reciever and radio, when you turn the radio on and then the reciever do the servos twitch??
there should be a power switch on your car. it is true that you do not need the battery pack b/c the reciever is run off your 6cell pack, but there should still be a on/off switch.
hope this helps, welcome back http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/wink.gif

ok, i was just thinking, you battery pack connects to your speed control, small wires on the speed control go to the reciever, other wires leave the speed control and go to the motor. there should be a power switch in between your battery and speed control. hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by jboyce13 (edited 02-22-2001).]

[RBill]

I get no twitching at all. There is no power switch for the car kit, and the instructions addendum explicitly says the switch is not included even though the instruction booklet and box show one.

It appears that the receiver is not getting any power at all. The receiver I purchased has a 3 prong slot labeled 'batt' and the speed control that came with the car kit has a 2 prong black/red wire.

Basically, I was going to try to move the 2 prong adapter along the 3 prong 'batt' slot trying all combinations to attempt to get that 'twitch'.

After that, I'm probably going to throw up my hand and take the 1 hour drive back to the hobby shop for some assistance - but I'd like to avoid that if possible.

Thanks

[RBill]

Now that I think of it, the Phantom radio kit came with a power switch. I may try to link that to the 'Batt' slot on the receiver and the red/black wire adapter from the speed control.

[jboyce13]

read my edit above!!! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[space_doc]

I've never actually looked at the insides of a Rustler, but I had a Royal Crusher way back when and I needed to (per the instruction manual) cut the wires from the receiver battery box, attach/solder some wire ends and then attach those to the speed control (I'm assuming its mechanical if its stock and packaged with the kit.) If you got an ESC, then my advice was for nothing. Hope you get things working!

[jboyce13]

that red and black wire goes to the battery spot on the reciever, and then the servos get plugged into the other slots


i would assume that the power switch would go before the speed control


if you cannot get it working with this help, don't give up, call traxxas, and they should be able to help to as well as your lhs. 1888traxxas
[This message has been edited by jboyce13 (edited 02-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jboyce13 (edited 02-22-2001).]

[jboyce13]

that is a good question, i assumed it was a mechanical speed control, is that correct??

[RBill]

Yes, mechanical speed control.

It's not what I'm used to seeing but hey, I've been out of the loop for 15 years. LOL

Basically, the speed control has 4 wires (blue and white) that attach to the resister pack. The two motor wires are self explanatory. It also has that black / red wire combo.

I don't mind removing the adapter from the black and red wire and attaching individual connectors if that's what it takes. I am thinking I need some sort of hybrid connection scheme using the power switch that was supplied with the radio kit.

Unfortunately, I'm at work and won't be home for another 7 hours - so I'm gathering research in hopes to get it working. =P

[RBill]

Going from memory:

Car Battery ====> Speed control

Speed Control ====> Resister Packs (via 4 wires)

Speed Control ====> Motor

Speed control ====> ??? Black and Red Wires


Receiver - Empty 'Batt' slot

Receiver ===> Throttle Servo

Receiver ===> Steering Servo


I'm missing that connection between the red and black wire and the 'batt' slot on the receiver. I'm thinking that once I get power to the receiver I'm set.

(Hope that's not confusing)

[jboyce13]

i think i confused myself http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif but anyway, to me it sounds like you are just not getting power to the speed control, like you said. hope i have helped you and not confused you !! good luck!
so are you going to get one for yourself....don't hog your kids car!!!

[RBill]

Yeah, I am.

I have two REALLY old cars upstairs....an old Bear and my old man's old truck (can't remember which one). I may try to get another radio kit for the old man's truck and redo the body....that'll hold me over until I can afford another car.

However, when I'm ready (soon as the wife ok's the purchase LOL) I'm going out to get myself a new car.

To be honest, I'm extremely excited about restarting the hobby....just have to get over this little speedbump to restore my confidence in it.

Thanks for the help...I'll try some things tonite and see if I can get the power going.

[jboyce13]

it is frustrating, i started in nitro, which is REALLY frustrating sometime, but cool. so when i got my first electric, it seems pretty simple, it is the little stuff that you do not know that will drive you nuts!!

i get the "you spend more money on your d**n cars than on me" lecture all the time!! LOL
warning: it becomes an obsession

[Primal]

Are the crystals in right (ie. Recivers crystal in the reciver, transmitters in the transmitter) I know it's a dumb thing to ask but I know from personal experance it can happen, took almost 2 days to figure out the goof up. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/redface.gif

[RBill]

To be honest, I haven't given that much thought since the kit came with the crystals already installed.

[Nairb]

OK, dude, Mechanical speed controls are lame, but if you have to use one, you have to use one... Since it is mechanical, there has to be two servos (1 for steering, 1 for MSC) and a battery switch plugged into the reciever. The steering servo plugs into channel 1, the throttle servo goes into 2, and a small red & black wire with a harness plugs into the batt slot (two wires & two prongs only). You shouldn't have to use the switch that came with your radio; the MSC should have one. FYI, speed controls always have them. The switches that come with radios are only for gas cars. That should solve it. Make sure you've filled 3 slots in the reciever with the right wire harnesses. Otherwise, I'm sure you've got the (6 cell) battery plugged in for power and everything else. Here is one serious tip: ESCs are worth their weight in gold compared to MSCs. You'll have so much more fun using one of those, and setup will be EXTREMELY easy. I highly suggest you get one. The latest issue of RCCA has a big comparison of reversing ESCs, go check it out. Welcome back, dude! We're here to help!

[Nairb]

Note: my post above means you do NOT need an extra 4-cell battery pack, the MSC will step down the voltage and give it to the reciever automatically through the two small wires in the battery slot (in the reciever).

[RBill]

Cool Nairb, thanks. That's pretty much how I've got it set up now. However, the battery slot in the receiver has 3 prongs, not 2 - I imagine I will have some playing around to do to find the correct 2.

I would prefer the easy route, however....I stayed with the MSC for one reason.

This is the son's first car...and he has a hard time taking care of things. So, to determine whether he can keep it in enough shape to warrant a better car later I went with a Rustler with a cheap radio kit...to minimize the economical damage if he wrecks it.

Now...I will definately pick all your brains in about 3 months. At that time, I'll be after a car and I'll want decent enough equipment to keep me running and competitive for quite a while.

Thanks for the input though, and I have a few things to try tonite. I'm hoping I can get it running, cause my frustration and disappointment after dumping this much time and cash into this car is growing.

=)

[Nairb]

Are you sure it HAS three prongs, or does it just look that way? Most recievers have slots that are all wide enough for 3 prongs, but the battery one in fact has just 2. Here's a hint: the battery wire harnesses usually are square on the bottom and have two ridges on the top. This is standard and the reciever should have two slots above the battery prongs to accept the two raised sections. This should help you plug it in correctly. I wouldn't risk plugging it in backwards and frying the stuff; always check the manual for hints.

[RBill]

I have that problem solved.

I'm a computer programmer, and with that comes a computer PC game hobby. I got into online gaming, and used to constantly get nagged. "You pay more attention to that game, than to me."

Don't do what I did. I got her into the game hoping she would understand why I liked to play. Now, 2 years later, she's still feverishly playing, and I'm trying to back myself out of it (it's an addiction).

So, this is hopefully my new hobby...and with 4 boys in the house, could be an expensive one as they grow older.

0_o

[jboyce13]

did you get it runnin??

[Nairb]

Well, the only MSC I've dealt with was in my RC10T years ago, but this should still be true: you don't need to monkey with anything to make it work. They make it ready to "plug and play." There are two possibilities here.

1) Your Traxxas MSC came with a switch. In this case, there will be a male wire harness that will plug straight into the reciever's battery slot. With this setup, you just turn the MSC's switch to get going.

<font size="6">OR</font>

2) Your Traxxas MSC came without a switch. In this case you'll have to use the switch that came with your radio. I am 100% sure that they give you what you need to get going. In this case, it would be a wire from the MSC to connect the radio's switch to. What you'll have to do now is plug the switch's male side into the battery slot of the reciever and plug the other wire from the switch into the smallest harness coming from the MSC.

Either way, I'm absolutely sure Traxxas makes it as simple as possible to get these things hooked up. Note: these switches will all have two very thin wires coming out of them, and thus, two prongs only. Whatever is plugged into the battery channel of a reciever has only two prongs 99.999999999999% of the time. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to be very clear.

So, as an overview, your MSC will have 2 thick wires going to the motor, 2 thick wires going to the battery, 2 very thin wires going to the battery slot in the reciever, and a switch thrown in there somewhere (it should be between the MSC and reciever, but that might not be the case). Those are the only things you need to touch in the electrical system, besides servo setup. I hope you didn't give yourself more trouble by snipping some wires you shouldn't have. I hope this helps.


buh-bye, then.

Nairb

[ZenLosi]

Ok, the Traxxas site has some good information on all this:
http://www.traxxas.com/support/howto/trx_trouble_radiosystem.htm#speedcontrol
(Scroll up one paragraph to the MSC article)
http://www.traxxas.com/products/electric/rustler/gallery/trx_gallery_rustler04.htm
Here's a picture of the MSC setup, kind of a ways away, but you can make out where everything goes.

-Zen


[This message has been edited by ZenLosi (edited 02-23-2001).]

[RBill]

Yup, that's how I have it set up.

The 3 prong 'batt' slot in the receiver was confusing at first, but after looking at the adapter on the on/off switch, I noticed there was only one way it could be connected.

However, on the other side of the on/off switch, the adapter did not fit the adaptor on the MSC wiring (not even close). So, to connect the on/off switch end to the MSC end, I snipped the adaptors off and twisted the appropriate colored wires together.

I'm very confident that it's wired appropriately...especially after seeing Nairb's description of the battery connector. Once I noticed the on/off switch had that exact adapter, I knew I had it right.

However, still no power. I've reread the directions and made sure I've followed it to the letter. The problem now lies within the receiver, I'm almost certain.

[RBill]

Ok, recommendation time...although I'm sure I already know the answer.

After reading through the documentation Zenlosi supplied in the link, I've noticed that the ESC is alot easier and more beneficial over the MSC (as Nairb also stated).

So I've pretty much decided to purchase an ESC and scrap the MSC.

Questions:

It seems that eliminates the need for a physical servo for throttle (essentially it is the throttle servo)...is that correct?

I would imagine I would still have to replace the receiver if it's faulty...even though the BEC isn't plugged into the 'batt' slot on the receiver with an ESC.

Basically, I'd like to walk into the store tomorrow and say: 'I need a new receiver and an ESC to make this puppy run with the current servos and controller that came with the Python kit.

How realistic is that?

[jboyce13]

there ya go. that is the best way. i never like to suggest that people go spend even more money. but that is a good way to go. yes, the throttle servo goes bye bye. ESC simplifies your car, and it is more efficient so that you get better performance and longer run times http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif. and if your reciever is fried you will have to get a new one. if you just bought the kit like i think that you said you should call traxxas and tell them, you might have to send it back, but if it was bad when you got it they should replace it. i have a novak explorer 2 ESC. they run for about $50. it took about 2 minutes from when i unwrapped it to put it in the car and get it set up. quite literally it can be that fast. you do have to be more carefull with them b/c you can fry them pretty easily. water is a big big no no. but for the most part they are very simple devices. you can get them with reverse too, which is handy. they range in price from $30 to $200. you will probably be only running stock motors so just about any ESC will work.

from my experience, at LHS's the esc's always seem really overpriced. just beware.

[ZenLosi]

I almost suggested it...the Traxxas XL-1 (which comes with the RTR cars) is a good speed control for like $40 (CHEAP!) with shipping. I have one in my Midnight Pumpkin and it works pretty good. The only downside with it is, when the main battery get's low, you need to turn it off, or the car will run away from ya.

-Zen

[Nairb]

I applaud your decision. As ZenLosi said, you can lose servo control when the battery dies with the Traxxas ESC, so for that reason alone, a Novak ESC is worth it. They all have radio priority circuitry that will ensure you always have control. I really like Novak products.

So, you want to go to your LHS and say, "Gimme a Novak Explorer 2 and AM XXL." Your son should be fine with the Explorer 2 and the XXL (reciever) will work fine with your radio and crystals. Besides, it'll be way smaller than the other reciever. That's what I suggest for a sport level Rustler. Just remove the MSC, old reciever, and throttle servo and you can throw in the two Novak things very quickly and be off terrorizing the neighbor's dog, or whatever. Man, you'll be so much happier with an ESC...

[RBill]

Nope.

I looked at the switch that came with the radio kit, and it had only 2 of the 3 prongs...however, there were 2 notches that told me exactly where it fit into the receiver so there was no guess work there.

I had to snip off the ends of the switch and the MSC power wires since the adapters weren't compatible (hobby shop is probably gonna lecture me on this one).

End result....still no servo twitching and still no response from the controller. I think the receiver might be bad...it's just not getting power.

I know the power is transferring through the MSC cause I accidentally made contact with the ends of the wires from the MSC and got the 'you're an idiot' spark.

I just got off the phone with the hobby shop and they should have their 'mechanic' in tomorrow afternoon. I'm gonna have to make the 1 hour trek to the shop, but if he can get it running at no or low cost I'll be happy. Although I'm sure it's a cheaper car, dumping $250 into it and not seeing results is more than frustrating.

Thanks for the help though.

[ZenLosi]

RBill - Let me take a stab at this. I might have missed something, but you do have the 7.2 volt pack charged and plugged in, right? I've never used a Traxxas mechanical SC, but I'm sure they have the same components as a Tamiya...anyway, here goes:

MSC Wires:
Big Green/Yellow wires - Motor
Big Red/Black wires - 7.2 volt battery pack
"BEC"- Two small wires with small red plug.
Three or four small wires (can be green, blue, purple...depends)- goes to heatsink

Receiver wires:
Ch. 1 - plug in servo
ch. 2 - plug in servo
Batt - plug in ON/OFF switch that came with remote control.
*ON/OFF swith - should have another connector on opposite end from receive with two prong connector. This two prong connector either connects to a separate four AA cell battery pack (comes with controller) or connects to the BEC connector from the Mechanical SC.

*BEC is the Battery Eliminator Cable that steps the 7.2 volts down to the receiver friendly voltage and eliminates the need for a separate four cell battery pack.

If you have it connected this way and it's not working, then your receiver may be toast.

I hope this helped.

By the way, *Tamiya car kits don't come with ON/OFF switches, you have to use the one that came with the radio. So, that switch is not necessarily just for gas cars. I just re-read everything again and it looks like you have a grip on it, it may be a faulty receiver.


-Zen




[This message has been edited by ZenLosi (edited 02-23-2001).]

[RBill]

Well, problem solved.

Turns out, the receiver and the steering servo were shot. I took the car to a second hobby shop and he took the time to check each component and find the problem. I had to purchase a second radio set and can hopefully return the first one.

I am holding off on purchasing the ESC for now, since the old one works fine...but will replace it as soon as I get the money. I couldn't afford another radio set and an ESC...stupid car. =P

Anywho, thanks for the suggestions, and I'll be putting the ESC in as soon as I can.

My son is excited it's working - too bad it rained all day Sat and Sun. LOL