Axxis Racing Thread

[rcguy2477]

This thread was created to discuss batteries. I am sure many of you have read Ikraj's responses throughout the electric forum, and are well aware of his expertise when it comes to batteries. We(Ikraj, Gizmoguy, and myself) will be pleased to answer any questions pertaining to batteries, whether its a simple question, or a much more complex one. This will also be an area used to answer any questions about the Axxis batteries.

Lets start discussing!

[T4driva]

on T4, about how much longer will a 8000 mah lipo battery last compared to a 4400 mah lipo battery?? im lookin at new engines, speed controls and what not so i need more power to run my car, lipo batteries are the way to go it wounds like.

[T4driva]

also, how much mroe time would it take to charge a 8000 mah lipo compared to a 4400mah lipo??

[rcguy2477]

Well, from the numbers point of view, the 8000mah lipoly pack will last about 45% longer than the 4400mah pack, but thats obvious. The actual runtime can't be figured out exactly, but with the 4400 you are looking at about 10 mins stock/ 7 mins mod of race time, and with the 8000, about 18 mins of mod and 13 mins of mod. But again, these are estimates.

Now, though you may have heard great things about the lipoly packs(with Craps on this forum, how couldn't you), there are some disadvantages also. For charging, you are looking at more than double the charge time of the nimhs(but also double the runtime). With the nimh's, you can charge a battery pack, run the car, charge another battery pack, and run the car again. With the lipolys, you have a longer initial wait to run your car. You also have the possibility of the packs causing fires which could destroy your rc, or even your home(I don't know if you saw it, put a member of this forum had his house burn down because of these batteries). Next, you need to be very careful while discharging your packs, as they can't get below a certain voltage. Though many people don't realize this, when you nail the throttle(which almost everyone does, especially in racing), the voltage drops greatly. I have personally tested this with nimh packs and a stock motor, and the voltages dropped below 5 volts sometimes under acceleration (the engineers of the radio I tested said that though this was the lowest voltage displayed on the screen, the voltage dropped even lower than that for a very short amout of time). Lastly, you have to deal with the cost. With the current lipolys, they are charging over $100 a pack for a 8000 mah battery pack. Nimhs on the other hand can be bought for under $50 a pack.

-Jason Downey
Axxis (http://www.axxis-racing.com)

[rcguy2477]

For the charging time, it all depends on how much mah is put into the pack, and how much is lost through heat. With the 4400 you are looking at around 40 minutes to charge, and with the 8000 pack, you are looking at about 1 hour and 10 minutes. Again, this info could vary greatly depending on how many amps you charge at, and these figures are only estimations. If you wait just a little bit, I am sure Ikraj will come around and answer your question in more detail.

[T4driva]

alright, i have seen websites and stuff posted about an e-,axx with a 4400mah lipo that lasted for 45 minutes, i dont know how he would get it to run that much longer, especially when he had headlights and taillights hooked up to that battery, does anybody know how to get the car to run for that long?!?!

[rcguy2477]

It all depends on how hard he was running it, and what gearing he had(also, he could have been running a brushless motor). If the person was just running it up and down the street, stopping at times, it would have easily lasted 45 minutes.

[T4driva]

so would a brushless motor like the novak ss5800 increase the battery run-time?? how much longer would it run on a brushless motor compared to a brushed motor??

[rcguy2477]

With the ss5800 system, I was able to race for about 9 minutes with reasonable gearing on 3300's. With a normal 12t, it is about 7 minutes, sometimes less. To be honest though, the novak 5800 isn't equal to a good 12 turn; more like a 15-16 turn.

[T4driva]

really would having an esc like the Novak Super Sport Plus Brushless/Brush Programmable ESC make it faster?? would it also effect the length of runtime?

?? everyone else said that it's one of the best motors out there that is "cheap"
so what is a really good motor that is like a 13 or 14 turn (brushless) and would the esc have an effect on the run time?? because the

[rcguy2477]

The new Novak will definitely be faster than the old system, but it will be at the cost of runtime(compared to the original ss5800 system). If you want long runtime and arn't looking that much for the speed, go with the original system. If you want to be as fast as most brushed mod motors, with more runtime, go with the new GTB system from Novak. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKSW0&P=7

[T4driva]

hey, rcguy thx a lot for your help and knowing excact answers to me Q's (and the quick responces) I think that im gonna get the 4400mah or 5300mah (or something close to that) lipo battery with the novak ss5800 and the novak super sport esc, it was reccomended by several ppl and it sounds like it will run for a while and have great performance.

thx so much and i would still be uttertastically confused about batteries and running times and every thing

[T4driva]

alright, i jsut have one more question- in other posts and stuff around this website there's stuff about lipo batteries not bein the best and that there are other batteries that are better, they haven't said what batteries, but will a nickel back battery be comparible to a lipo battery at all when it comes to overall performance speed and run-time??

[T4driva]

to follow up on that ^ could you please send a link with the good batteries??
thx l
l
l

[rcguy2477]

I'm not sure, but you may be talking about the NiMh (Nickle Metal Hydride) batteries. While these are hevier and have less runtime than the lipolys, they are much cheaper, are allowed in races, and are much easier to maintain. The newest NiMh Sub-C(this tells the size of the battery) battery to come out is the Intellect 3800. These packs will run anywhere from $35-$70. These batteries take ~about~ 35 minutes to charge. Also, with these batteries, they will stay in the car better since that is what they were originally designed for.

With the lipoly packs, as I mentioned before, you have to be very careful how much they discharge. With NiMh's, this isn't nearly as crucial. In fact, many racers take their batteries down to 0v(on an equilization tray). Also, you don't have to worry about how many amps the motor pulls as these cells can take a much hevier load that the lipolys.

Here is a good link explaining batteries in depth- www.balakracing.com/batteryfaqs.htm
You can get batteries from many different matchers(name used for companies that "match" battery packs). My personal favorite is Axxis- www.axxis-racing.com

[T4driva]

alright, but will the nimh batteries (say 3800) last as long, or have as good of performance as the lipo's?? becuase i can afford it, i just can't buy it all at once. if there's only a small difference i'll prolly save a couple bucks and get the best NiMh batteries.

[rcguy2477]

Well, theres the 600mah difference between the 4400 and the 3800, and the weight difference, but besides that the nimhs will perform the same if not better than lipolys.

[T4driva]

sweeeeeeeet!!!! i wouldda never known that nimh batteries would be better performance wise

thx so much rc guy

[T4driva]

alright, i think this might be my last question too u and thx for all ur help-what is a good charger for nickel batteries?

[T4driva]

sry, but its not what is the difference between having the 6 indiviual batteries compared to the pack of them? is there a performance diff or just the was there made??

i also dont have a clue how to hook up the individual ones

[rcguy2477]

Well, while the voltage is about the same on lipolys and nimhs, there is the weight difference(they are about half the weight of nimhs). Because of this, the lipolys will run faster in your car.

These types of packs are good if you arnt too sure on your soldering skills. The attached connector is the one most widely used on rtr's and cheaper electronics.
http://www2.gpmd.com/image/a/ascc0632.jpg
The packs assembled like this are usually made with higher quality batteries and are matched. Also, this kind of battery allows you to use a equalizer. These require you to solder them together
http://www2.gpmd.com/image/e/epxc0054.jpg

[T4driva]

alright, so with the Intellect 3800 batteries, what is a good charger that costs maybe $50 or $60? and what is the difference between zapped or non-zapped batteries, and the difference between team, race, and sport battery packs? and what other battery pack would you reccomend?i've been lookin at epic and trinity because they look like good batteries that aren't too expensive

[rcguy2477]

Zapping is a process that is used to increase the voltage and decrease the ir in a battery. They are given the names team, race, and sport to tell how good the pack is, team being one of the best. There are many companies that produce great battery packs. My personal recommendation would be Axxis Racing (http://www.axxis-racing.com), just email them and tell them what you want.

[T4driva]

how much of a difference in run time will there be in a 3300 nimh, compared to a 3800 nimh? also, are there any websites that i could buy one cell at a time, so i could get a 7th cell to make the battery last even longer?

[rcguy2477]

Depending on what motor you are running, it can vary, but its about a minute difference.

The amount of cells in the packs determines the voltage, not runtime when hooke in a series(which is the way rc packs are done). Adding a 7th cell will not add any runtime at all, but will up the voltage to 8.4v.

[T4driva]

oooooh, ok cuzz i was readin come guy hooked up 14 cells and hit 90 mph er so and i was wondering if it would last longer, thx and i think i'll try and get 14 gp 3300's because they'll last a good amount of time and 8.4 volts and slow
but thx for ur input and now i know what im doin when i go to buy stuff

[rcguy2477]

ygpm

[T4driva]

ygpm-what does that stand for and would this charger http://www.modelsinmotion.co.uk/product.asp?productid=958 be a good combination with these batteries? http://www.modelsinmotion.co.uk/product.asp?productid=7977

or what would be a good charger to go with these team orion batteries? because i've found everything i need on this site for an amzing price

[T4driva]

http://www.modelsinmotion.co.uk/product.asp?productid=4631

what about that charger? it looked like it was quite a bargain for only 60 bucks

[gizmoguy303]

I recommend the LRP Pulsar 2, Novak Millennium Pro, or any of the DC-only chargers from Integy. If those are too expensive, you can check out the Novak Ionic for a good mid-range charger, or a even a used Novak Millennium. The Millennium has an adjustable delta peak and linear charge so it still works great with NiMH packs, even though it's not the latest charger.

A mistake most people make is skimping on the charger. If you are going to be buying expensive matched packs you need to get an equally high-end charger to take care of them. If you are not going to be racing competitively, AXXIS will be offering a bashing/practice pack comprised of IB3600 cells for around $34.95 to $39.95. I don't know when they will be available but if you are interested I would be glad to find out.

The Team Orion GP3700's you selected are great packs, no doubt. But don't buy expensive packs until you have the equipment to take care of them, and the driving skill to use them to their potential. It all depends on what kind of racing you are doing, your budget, and your competition. A charger is a solid investment and lasts a long time. I would recommend a higher-end charger if you can afford it.

Hope this helps. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

[bizaare69]

It may seem cheap at $60 but thats not american thats in pounds so your price is almost gonna double on that charger your looking at :D

BIZAARE

[gizmoguy303]

If you are in the US, I would recommend www.towerhobbies.com -- if they carry what you are looking for, they usually have the best price on it as well. :)

[T4driva]

yeah, i've been lookin at towerhobbies, but it sucks that they discontinnued the novak super sport brushless system, cuzz that would save me like $30 from buying them spereately.

[gizmoguy303]

It is discontinued because Novak is coming out with a new system.

[Rtsbasic]

But, if you add a 7th cell the car will be faster, so if you change your gear ratio so its as fast as it was before, it'll be more efficent by pulling less amps/distributing the load more, thus increasing runtime and overall performance.

[T4driva]

the ss5800 motor with 8.5 turns compared to the 10.5 turns, how much longer with the 10.5T motor last, and would you guyz reccommend the new 8.5 or the older 10.5 for bashing and racing towards the end of the summer??

[gizmoguy303]

I would get the new Novak system with the milder of the two motors that are available for it. The new Novak ESC should be superior to the Super Sport ESC now.

[T4driva]

that's what i was thinking at first, but i wanted more input b/c im not an expert on this hobby, but i think i found a good charger for the NiMh batteries that i'll prolly get http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHJB4&P=7
and i'm looking at the integy 7-cell gp3300 b/c they're like $55 each so i can get 2 of them, apposed to only 6 cells of the gp3700 for $80 each

[gizmoguy303]

The Duratrax charger you are looking at comes with a very cheap power supply and uses a pulse charge instead of charging linearly. If that is your price range, I would choose this over the Duratrax charger:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJXJ0&P=7

[rcguy2477]

YGPM (you've got a private message)

[T4driva]

idk, i think that might be a lil too much dough- are there any other chargers taht are under $50?? but thx for the reccomendation and if i can find a job where i can make and $100 in like a week, i might be able to get that, but i dont see how i could get a job lol.

[SteveBahnatka2]

forum lingo 1 on 1 staring rcguy2477!!!

[T4driva]

and is the differnce between AC and DC that AC you can plug into the "wall" outlet thingy, and DC u have to have a seperate power source??

[rcguy2477]

AC/DC chargers have a "power supply" in them which allows you to directly connect a 120v line to the charger. A DC only requires a separate power supply to transfer the 120v into 12vdc. Traditionally, the power supplies included with AC/DC chargers are poor quality which is why you will hear many people suggesting a DC only charger. With the DC only charger, you have the option to pick whatever power supply you want, and you can also run other rc devices off of the power supply(i.e. tire truers, tire warmers, and soldering irons). Also, the power supplies in AC/DC chargers usually provide less than 7 amps, so when you are chargin at 5+ the voltage drops and it doesn't provide "clean" power.

[gerok]

Can someone discuss the pro's and con's of equalizing a battery (generic and pro batteries) to 0.00v. I just purchased a InDi Zero-Equalizer with a cut off of 0.00v and I am not too sure if it's okay to go that low. I emailed Ikraj and he told me a trick of discharging all the way down to 0.3v, recharge, then discharge on race day. I thought you're suppose to only discharge to 0.9v?

[T4driva]

is this a good charger for Nimh?? because it's pretty popular selling and it's not over priced-

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCLD5&P=ML

[rcguy2477]

That charger is ok for starting out. But when running on AC, it can only charge at 3 amps. My friend had one but it never really seemed to get a full charge in the batteries like the better chargers did.

[rcguy2477]

Can someone discuss the pro's and con's of equalizing a battery (generic and pro batteries) to 0.00v. I just purchased a InDi Zero-Equalizer with a cut off of 0.00v and I am not too sure if it's okay to go that low. I emailed Ikraj and he told me a trick of discharging all the way down to 0.3v, recharge, then discharge on race day. I thought you're suppose to only discharge to 0.9v?
For the 3300's, its fine to discharge to 0v. Follow Ikraj's advice, hes the man when it comes to batteries. For the 3800's, I've heard that they dont respond as well as the 3300's to being discharged to 0v, but I havn't been able to personally test this out.

[T4driva]

back to http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHJB4&P=7
i dont really care about the pwer source in there not being so great but other than that, will that be a good charger for $45?? because i really dont wanna spend over like $50 on a charger not including tax and w/e else they put on it these days lol

[rcguy2477]

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCLD5&P=ML
I'd go with that one over the other one just because you can set more stuff, such as the delta peak, and it is a linear charger vs. a pulse charger.

[gizmoguy303]

Can someone discuss the pro's and con's of equalizing a battery (generic and pro batteries) to 0.00v. I just purchased a InDi Zero-Equalizer with a cut off of 0.00v and I am not too sure if it's okay to go that low. I emailed Ikraj and he told me a trick of discharging all the way down to 0.3v, recharge, then discharge on race day. I thought you're suppose to only discharge to 0.9v?

Equalizing to 0.0v is fine. Just don't store your batteries equalized that way.

With your Integy tray, put the pack on the tray when you want to charge it. After all the cells have equalized, wait a few minutes and start charging it. There is no actual hard data that shows that 0.9v is the optimal point to discharge to; it just ended up being the standard that most people go by.

With my GP3300, GP3700, and IB3800 cells, I discharge them to 0.0v before charging them. If the pack is hot after being discharged to 0.0v, wait until it has cooled before charging. With my tray, the pack doesn't heat up much and I wait only a few minutes before starting the charge.

After I use them in practice or in a heat, I discharge them on an Integy Reactor 30 to 5.4v -- then I either store them until next weekend or put them aside to be used again that day.

[T4driva]

hey, rcguy-sry about all the thousands of Q's i had, but thx soo much for the answers and helping me with motors, batteries, and chargers and other random Q's that i had

[gerok]

Equalizing to 0.0v is fine. Just don't store your batteries equalized that way.

With your Integy tray, put the pack on the tray when you want to charge it. After all the cells have equalized, wait a few minutes and start charging it. There is no actual hard data that shows that 0.9v is the optimal point to discharge to; it just ended up being the standard that most people go by.

With my GP3300, GP3700, and IB3800 cells, I discharge them to 0.0v before charging them. If the pack is hot after being discharged to 0.0v, wait until it has cooled before charging. With my tray, the pack doesn't heat up much and I wait only a few minutes before starting the charge.

After I use them in practice or in a heat, I discharge them on an Integy Reactor 30 to 5.4v -- then I either store them until next weekend or put them aside to be used again that day.


Do you know if this will apply to stick packs converted to side-by-side? I have 3 packs at the moment, and although they are not the best of the best, I do want the best care for them. I haven't purchase gp cells yet (waiting for bl motor in about 2 weeks then buying cells to go with it). In particular, I have the Epic 3000 batteries converted to side-by-side. Before I bought the Integy zero equalizer, I did a manual discharge with one of my packs to 0.03v using a 1amp bulb. It did take very looonnnng, however, I did monitor the voltage carefully. I am not too sure if these packs can be discharged to 0.0v, so I hope I didn't do any damage.

[gizmoguy303]

Did you discharge to .3v for the whole pack, or .3v for each cell? Never discharge a pack down to those low voltages, because differences in discharge voltage between each cell as the whole pack discharges to such low voltage will result in cell reversal.

Discharging your generic 3000 cells to 0.0v before charging shouldn't harm them. Just follow the guidelines in my previous post and you should do fine. :)

[gerok]

Yes I discharged them to 0.03 (not 0.3) as so to equalize them. I noticed when I did that to one pack, in combination with a 1000uf cap on my esc, the punch was way harder and longer than the others. I was just a little concerned on bringing each cell that low. Thanks for information replies :D

[Jasonpl3]

what happens when you totally drain your cells?
i have a 20 amp bulb discharger and once in a while ill accidentally forget the pack is on them and walk away, ill come back and the bulbs are totally out, i usually wait until they dim and then disconnect but what happens when i fully drain them, anything??
i use gp3300's and also ive done it once to the axxis 3800's.

[gizmoguy303]

You can seriously damage the pack that way.

Like I said before, you should not discharge a pack (pack = six or four cells wired in SERIES) down to an extremely low voltage (like letting the pack completely discharge on the bulbs), because differences in discharge voltage between each cell as the whole pack discharges can result in cell reversal. For example, if one cell in the pack reaches 0.0v before all the others do, the other cells will force current through the dead cell and seriously damage it.

You can bring each cell to 0.0v by using an tray that discharges each cell individually, but never discharge a pack as a whole down to 0.0v. I would highly recommend getting a 5.4v cutoff unit to wire into your bulb discharger, which will automatically stop discharging your pack when it hits 5.4v.

I would also recommend getting a tray - it is a very wise investment. This will work great:

http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=2852&p_catid=24&sid=4wSJJh1FG0EA3N@-13105069738.43

When using that tray, or any tray that takes the cells to 0.0v: before charging the pack, put the pack on the tray and bring all the cell to 0.0v - then wait until the pack cools (usually just a few minutes is all that is needed), and begin charging. Equalizing the pack brings all the cells to the same voltage. As a result when you equalize it before charging, all the cells will charge at relatively the same level and peak at about the same time.

After using the pack, discharge the pack down to 5.4v (if possible, get a cutoff unit, or a discharger like the Integy Reactor). Store it like this until you plan to use it again. :)

[T4driva]

does anybody know how long these batteries will last? and how many volts of electricity they hold??

7-cell trinity gp3300 zapped (http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=2591&p_catid=52&sid=4wSJJh1FG0FsA61-41105153354.18)

[gizmoguy303]

GP3300's will work well for a long time as long as you take care of them. Honestly, I would not pay $56 for seven unmatched GP3300's. If you are using a T4, I would stick with six cells anyway.

As I said before, AXXIS will be offering IB3600 sport packs for ~$35-$40. We also carry GP3300, GP3700, and IB3800's. If you have any questions you can email me at: bobbydoyle@axxis-racing.com

[dirtguy90]

what is the difference between gp3300 and regular nimh 3300 batteries? i notice that gp3300's cost a lil more, so im assuming they're a lil better, but are they longer run time, better perfromance, or both?

[rcguy2477]

They are much better quality batteries. They have higher voltage, more run time, and lower internal resistance than other 3300 batteries.