Cheating....

[gravity]

Is it possible to tear apart a stock motor and take off a couple of windings? If so is it detectable and how much faster than stock would it be? I'm not talking about cheating myself, I'm by all means against it. I'm asking because I suspect people at the local track doing it. The story goes... a friend of mine at the track has been racing many years and he's pretty good. He ended up gearing the piss out of a P2K motor and still got lapped today. So what to do? I don't want to join them, but there really is no other way to beat them. Why can't people just follow the rules. Maybe I'll go modified.....Who knows. Thanks for your help though.

Michael
:(

[Mason Copeland]

They are better drivers. Don't blame it on your equipment. And DEFINATELY DO NOT CHEAT!!! You could be banned from the track and not be able to race, how fun would that be?!? BTW it is possible. Check out jeeps blurb in the electric forum on turning a stocker into a 9 turn motor.DO NOT DO THIS FOR RACING!!!!

[ 09-16-2001: Message edited by: Mason Copeland ]

[ 09-16-2001: Message edited by: Mason Copeland ]

[LasagnaCat]

Better drivers or perhaps they take slightly better care of their equipment.. keeping everything cleaned/oiled/checked makes a *big* difference in how your vehicle performs.. I buy many of our things used on eBay and it's just scary seeing the shape that some of the cars/trucks/etc. are in when they show up.. front wheels tightened to the point of binding, bearings completely blown apart and still in the vehicle, severly bent cvd's/dogbones, motors with the hourglass shaped comm that run BLACK when you shoot motor spray through them.. everything little adds up on the track..

And you can always go ask the faster guys what they're doing or if you can look at their car/truck in comparison to your own..

[jeepinator]

Ya, I did not post that to show people how to cheat. That is for sure.

I tinker with crap. It was something that was just bound to happen :p

Besides, cheating is dumb.
I have a solution for you though: Don't race stock.
Stock isn't stock anymore anyway. It has ballooned into the silliest bastardization of an original goal I have ever seen.

The motors cost more than budget mods.
Everyone wants, or is suspeted of cheating.
It is NOT cheaper.

[StephenB]

Jeep, you tinker with crap? I hope you wear rubber gloves... :eek: :p

[KilRuf]

Driving skills definitely play a big part. But if you really want to tell, watch them go down the straight. They should be fairly even running down it. If so, then definitely the driving skills. If they are significantly faster, then you either need to gear up or get better batteries and/or take better care of your stuff. That or they really are cheating. I know I was blowing everyone away at a stock race and thought I had a mod motor. I told them to gear up. They did and were as fast as me down the straight. But I blew them away in the turns. Was one lap ahead of everyone. I wasn't cheating. Just drove better and took care of my stuff (lubed the bushing before each race, rebuild the diffs the night before, made sure the bearings were free rolling and lubed, etc. So try those things and let us know what you find at the next race. :)

Mike

[Gutter Ball]

Plus not all motors and batteries are made the same. I was having the same problems racing in Spec class. How can two practically identical XXXT's, using the same batteries, brushes, gearing and motors have such a huge speed difference?!? I might have had a crappier battery pack(can't match Spec packs) or a weaker motor (check the P2K's, the numbers vary between motors, sometimes by a lot!). I didn't want to get a new motor, so I just geared lower (81/24 on a 21 turn single) and I can keep up better now, I don't get lapped as often :)

[TSR6]

Stephen - You da funny man :rolleyes: lol

[InspGadgt]

Batteries make a much bigger difference then most people realize. Given 2 identical cars everything except batteries...if one is running el cheepo sport pack battery and the other is running matched cells with decent voltages then the matched pack will be faster even down the straight. Enough to where it looks like the person is driving a modified.

[jetfan]

Exactly!! :D

[gubbs3]

The guys who are smoking you in stock probably many, many motors and they pick out the best ones. They also have the best batteries, chargers/conditioners and speed controls.

For your cheating, taking off windings won't make you faster. The fewer turns won't mean a thing because you will lose the mass of the windings and have a slower motor. Plus the motor will be unbalanced. A friend of mine built a stock motor with bearings that wend like heck for a cheater race where any mods were up for grabs.

[jeepinator]

gubbs3, methinks you need to go back to motor school !

[Gravity]

:D Thanx for the insight(s) guys. To some of you, they were definitely faster on the back str8. It's dissheartening to see a guy come up from behind you and slowly breeze by. I know it's driving skill and believe you me I'm working on it. To me speed can come overnight if you do everything correctly, driving skill takes longer. Much longer. Anyway thanks a bunch.

Michael

[jetfan]

I thought that the ability to keep the car planted in the corners was the bigest difference between the really fast guys and the ok fast guys.Any hop in the corners significantly will slow you down.The smoothness all the way around the track makes a big difference from what I have seen.

Another thing I have noticed is that if your body is not mounted correctly you will lose alot.You need to have the front low enough that minimal air gets under the car but enough ground clearance to keep it from scraping.

Keep in mind I DO NOT race electrics but these are my thoughts from what I have seen at the tracks.And remember that the quality of your batteries means everything in these races. :D

[Drayken D]

I felt the same way at the beginning of the season. I would have bet $100 that about 6 guys were cheating their butts off. They would pass my like I was standing still, and then take me wide on the corners too!! They said, batteries, batteries... I did not believe that batteries would make THAT much of a difference. But I went out, and got high voltage 2400 pack, and was amazed. I was starting to eat my words. I was still losing and still getting passed on the straits, but not as bad. I still had doubts about them cheating, but then someone told me to rebuild my diff, so I did, and I was turning faster lap times. THEN, I played with tires, and it got even better. Toward the end of the season, I was able to hold my own, and get into the A-main about 1/3 the time(this was my FIRST year of R/C, still got driving skills to learn). With 3 weeks to go, a guy took me into his trailor and Dyno'd my motor, he said it had good RPMs and torque, but it was taking 4.6seconds to fully wind out. My track is short and tight, the longest strait doesn't take close to 5seconds, so my motor was NEVER hitting top RPM. He replaced my brushes with his homemades, and it winded out in 2.4!!! I got my butt beat that night, cuzz I could not control it, lol. My truck is as fast as any of them, and faster than most. I even worked my way into 10th position for the season! I feel guilty about thinking they were cheating, especially those are the guys that actually helped me to get where I am at now.