Entering the Hobby

[HBNelson]

I have always been fascinated by radio controlled airplanes. As a kid and still today i can hear the distinct bzzzz made by them in the distance. I want to enter the hobby and need some advice. What type of plane should i get and how much will it cost? The down part seems to be the short flight times with the battery. All the people at my field are using the gas. I really dont want to drop $150+ on an electric plane only to find out the flight time is merely a few minutes.

So what im really asking is for everyone's opinion. I love watching the planes fly and want to join you all in the skies. What are my different options?

[aeropal]

What is wrong with the recommendations made in previous posts . . it sounds like you have not made the effort to read very many of them!

[icwtumn]

Hey HB,

There are two very simple options - electric or gas. Electric can be simpler, is usually cheaper, and is always less noisy. Gas can be more realistic, faster, but always noisier and can cost more.

As a beginner, I chose to start with electric, due to the convenience, simplicity, and low start-up costs. Learning on a simple, cheap plane is advisable, as crashes come less often and are easier to deal with, both in terms of payng for repairs and the ease in making the repairs.

Do some homework. Just asking for other people's opinions is one way to get limited amounts of information, but surf the net, do some searches, find out how much each type of plane costs, how easy it is to fly (or crash), how to repair it when it does crash, etc. Figure out what you want the plane to be capable of - do you want a simple trainer, a glider, an aerobatic plane, a 3D plane? How long do you want to keep the plane, and do you intend to move beyond basic flight? How much time do you want to invest in building a plane, if any? How much money do you want to invest in acquiring the equipment, and how long do you want that equipment to last? Getting into RC flight isvery exciting, but each person will take a slightly different approach and have different goals when they enter.

Answer some of these questions for yourself, and you will be well on your way to narrowing down the options for your first plane.

Best of luck and welcome to the world of RC flying!

[bigedmustafa]

I have always been fascinated by radio controlled airplanes. As a kid and still today i can hear the distinct bzzzz made by them in the distance. I want to enter the hobby and need some advice. What type of plane should i get and how much will it cost? The down part seems to be the short flight times with the battery. All the people at my field are using the gas. I really dont want to drop $150+ on an electric plane only to find out the flight time is merely a few minutes.

So what im really asking is for everyone's opinion. I love watching the planes fly and want to join you all in the skies. What are my different options?

Gas vs. Electric is a never-ending debate among R/C pilots, I'm afraid. There is no "right" answer when it comes to that particular topic.

I just recently dove into the hobby myself though, and hopefully my experiences might help you decide which direction you'd like to go.

At the advice of my local Hobbytown USA store, I plopped down $139 for an Aerobird Challenger by Hobbyzone. It's an electric flyer with a decent motor that is normally promoted as suitable for beginners but aerobatic enough for intermediate pilots to enjoy. I have expressed before that I believe purchasing this plane was a mistake.

The stick-and-pod v-tail design is a bit flimsy, and the plane requires constant tweaking and realigning to keep it flyable. I've put it into the ground many, many times as I've slowly gotten better and learning how to make it fly. I've bought 2 replacement wings, a replacement tail assembly, and had to glue battery compartment canopy back onto the fuselage.

I don't think an electric RTF kit is a bad way to jump into the hobby, I just think a different kind of plane body would have made learning easier. Hobbyzone's Parkzone division makes a couple of kits that are similarly priced to the Aerobird Challenger, but they have traditional fuselages and "T" style tails. I believe a Parkzone J-3 Cub or Super Decathalon RTF kit would have been easier for me to learn to fly with.

Like yourself, I decided to go out to a local flying field and try to hook up with an R/C club so I could learn more. I went out to a club field near my home, and discovered that nobody there flew electrics.

Talking to members, I was assured I'd be much happier starting out with a nitro powered glow plane. A nice guy who was very helpful to me recommended looking at the Avistar or Nexstar by Hobbico or the Arrow by Hangar 9. These are all reasonably priced ($250 to $380) Nitro RTF kits that were available either locally or through Tower Hobbies online. I'd been frustrated with my Aerobird up to this point, and the nitro powered planes were big, fast, and flew much better in windy conditions.

A bit of research pointed me toward the Hobbico Nexstar RTF in particular. I liked the idea of practicing my flying on my computer, and the Nexstar RTF comes with a special version of the Great Plains G2 simulator right in the box. I could use the software with the radio that came in my kit to practice flying before I ever headed out to the field. Tower Hobby was running a $40 discount off orders of $300 or more, so I took the plunge and bought the Nexstar RTF kit for about $350 delivered.

What I didn't know when I ordered the Nexstar was exactly how much more I'd have to spend to fly it. I bought a field tote, power panel, 12-volt battery, 12-volt charger, glow starter with charger, voltmeter with Futaba receiver leads, engine starter, fuel, after run oil, glow plug and prop wrench, extra propellers, extra wing bolts, a set of ball joint hex wrenches, an electric fuel pump, a buddy box, and a buddy box cable. Thanks to another $20 discount and free shipping from Tower Hobbies, all of this extra stuff only cost about $165.

To learn to fly the Nexstar, I am going through our flight training program at the club I joined ($55 per year). Thursday nights we have flight instructors who take us up and let us practice flying on buddy boxes while they handle the radio and take over if we get in trouble. The club has buddy boxes, but I decided to buy my own so I could try to hook up with instructors and fly at times other than Thursday nights.

There are a few things they don't tell you when you start flying nitro planes that I wish I'd known in advance. The cost of accessories was one obvious thing. Another thing they let you find out on your own is that nitro planes dump unburnt fuel out of the engine exhaust and it coates the plane while you're flying it. The fuel is 16% to 18% lubrication, so your plane is a nice greasy mess once you land it. You get to spray the plane down with Windex and wipe it up after every flying session. It's not a huge chore, but spending ten or fifteen minutes wiping up castor oil isn't the ideal way to finish up an afternoon of flying.

When it comes to nitro planes, RTF doesn't seem to mean the same thing that it does for electrics. My wing assembly had a hole for the wing brace that wasn't drilled out properly. I had the very good fortune of running into an old friend who is a master model builder and R/C pilot. He drilled out the hole for the wing brace for me. My pre-built field tote wasn't completely pre-built, either. I had to have my buddy finish putting all of that together too. There is an assumption that anyone involved in nitro plane flying is comfortable with model building and has the tools and knowledge to drill and saw things. I would have been lost without my friend Bob.

In my opinion, the extra time and money spent to jump into nitro planes is worth it if you have the time, money and patience to spend. You can't just buy a nitro plane and throw it around the park like you can an electric, but the power and speed combined with being able to fly with much higher winds is the payoff for the extra effort. You'll need help getting started, too, and a good flying club will be an invaluable resource.

If you want to take a more casual approach to learning the hobby, gas powered planes should be avoided. A good RTF kit from ParkZone or FlyZone will give you a chance to jump in and start flying without all of the extra expense and training efforts I described above. I've talked to experienced pilots who have v-tail stick-and-pod planes like my Aerobird Challenger and they like them. I just found it a bit difficult to start with that particular plane while learning on my own.

Hope this info helps you, and feel free to post any additional questions you might have.

[icwtumn]

bigedmustafa makes some great points. A prime example of the differences one might encounter in choosing gas over electric.

Great post.

I would like to add, however, that the Aerobird Challenger (ABC) was my first plane, as well. But my experiences with it were obviously more enjoyable than biged's. I had NEVER flown anything before, save for a free RC flight simulator (called FMS) on my home computer. I had practiced for maybe 3 or 4 hours before launching the ABC for the first time. I had no instructor. Just tips I read on the internet.

In spite of my flying abilities and obvious lack of experience, the plane has not hit the ground hard once so far, out of about 15 flights. I am having a blast with it! There is a wealth of good information out there about fairly simple modifications for the ABC that will make the plane quite resistent to crash damage, and none of them require years of model building experience or even the use of power tools. These modifications are NOT necessary to fly the plane, but will protect it in the event of a crash. The plane will fly great right out of the box. In my experience, a little tape, glue, and a zip-tie here or there and the ABC can be a very durable, friendly introductory plane.

It flies well and is what I refer to as "self-leveling." Once the plane is airborne, if the pilot releases all controls at 50% throttle, the plane flies itself, flat and level. If the wind catches it for a moment and it tumbles to the right, the plane will level itself without stick input once the wind gust calms. And while there are planes out there that fly slower (easier for the beginner to respond with slow flight), the plane is slow enough to handle the beginner's learning curve and fast enough to handle winds over 5 mph. From what I have read, one of the problems with park fliers that are lighter and fly slower than the ABC is that they get tossed around so very easily by the slightest breezes, making learning to control the plane quite difficult. Factor in the beginner's excitement and lack of understanding about how much the wind plays a role in the flight of the plane (a HUGE factor, do NOT underestimate the wind), and what you get is a beginner that rushes out the door and tosses the plane, for it's maiden flight, into 10 mph winds. Crash, crash, crash. Frustration ensues and posts pop up on the internet about how the ABC (or any other beginner plane) sucks. Many of these crashes are due to pilot inexperience, not bad equipment. All of these small RTF electric planes fly, and many of them are pretty easy for a complete novice to learn on.

There is another company that makes a plane called the T-Hawk. It is nearly identical to the ABC and costs the same, and has a couple benfits. One, it comes with an extra wing and tail for repairs. Two, the radio and reciever are "standard" equipment that can be removed from the fuselage and put in another plane. The Hobbyzone planes all have proprietary equipment (built in and can't be used in other planes). However, T-Hawk supplies can't be purchased at the local hobby store, you have to order all supplies from the manufacturer via the internet. And another plus for the ABC is that the customer service is outstanding. Hobby Zone stands behind their products 100%. Nobody seems to know (or talk about) about the T-Hawk customer service. Another plane to consiger is the Easy Star. Again, "standard" components, a completely foam construction, easy to repair, easy to learn how to fly.

Like I said in the previous post, everyone getting into this has to decide what they want out of it, what they want to put into it, and where they want to be a year or two from now in regards to the hobby.

If you're just mildly curious and want to try it out for a little fun over a weekend or two, buy a RTF (ready-to-fly) electric, no question. (By the way, this is more fun that going to an amusement park, and costs the same as a weekend or two there for the family. If you only use the plane a few times - a RTF electric is still worth it) If you think you are in it for the long haul, buy yourself a basic radio and charger system ($200 combined) and then start looking for a plane.

Again, welcome and good luck to you.

[bigedmustafa]

I hope my comments about the ABC weren't overly harsh, I tried to temper my own experiences with the Aerobird by mentioning all of the positive comments I've heard about the plane.. I don't think it's a bad plane at all, and I'm still flying mine.

We've just had a really, really windy spring here. I didn't have much luck trying to fly mine solo early on, and I'm sure enthusiasm won out over caution on a couple of occassions when I flew the Challenger even though I should have known better.

I've pounded the holy living heck out of my Aerobird Challenger, it's taken numerous hard landings. What isn't very, very tough is easily replacable and the availability of spare parts at the local hobby stores is unmatched by any other brand of R/C plane.

I think Hobbyzone makes good products that are a good value, I've just been frustrated by my initial attempts to fly my ABC.

[icwtumn]

Hey Ed,

I didn't mean to imply that you were flying in too much wind or that it was your inexperience that led to your disappointing results with the ABC. I was just trying to point out that there can be reasons other than "bad plane design" that new pilots have trouble with a plane. I personally feel that the ABC, the T-Hawk, the Easy-Star, and probably quite a few other planes would make great fiirst planes. I believe that what often dictates one's success (or failure) is their preparation, training, and judgment when they make decisions regarding their first steps into RC.

That being said, some planes are lemons. And sometimes unavoidable accidents just happen. Like wind gusts or radio interference, whatever.

The point is, being prepared will reduce the chances of early failures. And a little good luck doesn't hurt anything, either. :D

[HBNelson]

Thank you all for your help..
I purchased a magazine today but it seems to be more oriented towards the "hardcore" enthusiast. Its amazing how many different planes there are. I have been looking around and I feel convinced the Aerobird challenger is the plane for me. It seems to have more versatility than the others. It is still early for me to make a purchase as I have to make sure im serious about it.

[aeajr]

OK, here is way more than you want, but exactly what you asked for.

Getting your first plane? What should you get?

If you have an instructor, follow his/her advice as to what to get as your
plane. Getting info here is good, but discuss it with the instructor before
you buy.

RTF, ARF or KIT? What does this mean?

An RTF, Ready-To-Fly, typically requires virtually no building. Everything is
built. You attach the wing and perhaps the tail and you are done. Typical
investment of time is 15 minutes to 2 hours. The Aerobird Challenger is a
good example of an RTF plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=HBZ3500
RTFs ALWAYS include an installed radio system an may also inclued the battery
and charger.

ARF vs kit. How are they different? Depends on your definition.

ARFs and kits always require you to buy and install the electroncis. However
some of the makers, such as Mountain Models and GWS, offer select packages
that include the kit and the electronics. You still have to assemble/build,
but all the guess work is taken out of what electronics to buy. This makes it
very easy for the first time builder to get it right. The radio itself is
usually not included in these "complete packages"

Most wood KITS are a box of sticks and sheet parts that are cut from larger
sheets. You glue them together to form the structure then you cover it with
heat shrink film, some other covering, or paint the finished structure. Build
time could run 10-30 hours including gluing, covering and fitting out with the
electronics. The Mountaion Models Switchback would be an example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/switchback.php

As an example, Mountain Models wood kits, are typically very complete and
often include the motor, the hardware and the covering material. For some
people, kit building is as much or more fun than flying the planes. If you
want to tackle your first wood kit, Mountain kits have an outstanding
reputation for ease and completeness. This thread talks about their planes:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295225

Wood ARFs are typically kits that are already built and covered into major
structures such as fuselage, wings, tail, etc. Here you are doing final
assembly. The Ascent is a good example.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL1075
Typical build time is in the 3-10 hour range. Much less time and
much less skill is required. Then you install the electronics.
Here are some examples from Great Planes:

All foam kits, in my opinion, are more similar to ARFs than they are to wood
kits. They typically consist of large molded pieces that glue or friction fit
together. typical is 3-10 hours to complete. The Graupner Tipsey is a good
example.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Some foam kits call for covering but the Tipsy, for example, does not.
When required, covering can often be done with tape which can be very easy for
the new
builder. So I consider most foam kits to be more ARF than kit. Multiplex and
GWS kits fall into this kit/ARF class and are usually very complete. As a
first step from an RTF, these can be very good choices.

Foam/wood kits are likely to require some stick and sheet assembly, but
typically much less work than an all wood kit. The Mountian Models
SmoothE is a good example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
The fuselage is wood but the wing is foam. Very easy for the first time
builder to be successful.

There are many other brands that provide very high quality products. I use
these companies as examples because I often recommend their planes.


SPACE

How much space do you have for flying? If you have totally clear space of at
least 600'X600', about 9 square acres, approx 6 square football/soccer fields,
then I
can recommend one class of plane. Call this class 1 - CL1

If your space is more like 200X200 (one square acre) then a different plane is
in order. Call this class 2 - CL2

If it is less than that, different again. This we will call this class 3 -
CL3

These are my own designations and are based on my subjective ranking of the
space a new flyer should have when learning on his own. An experienced flyer
can fly faster planes in smaller spaces, but a new flyer wants to have more
space so you are not in a constant state of panic trying to turn. Now, you
can get above the edges of the field and expand your space, but if you lose
control, you drop in woods, on top of kids or smash someone's
windshield. If that windshield is in a car is traveling down a road when you
hit the windshield, you could cause an accident or worse.

So much for space. You get the idea.

I don't recommend pretty planes as first planes. They are too easy to break,
too hard to fix and look bad in short order. So you won't see any especially
pretty or true scale planes. Make one of those your second or third plane. I
also don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on the
list. If you want one of these, I would suggest the Firebird series from
HobbyZone. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they can
also be very easy to lose. You should plane to fly them in dead calm air when
you are first starting.

I feel a high wing three channel R/E/T plane is your best choice for a first
plane. R/E/T will require a little more learning than the two channel R/E
planes but is a better choice as a first plane, in my opinion. These use the
same control inputs as more advanced planes and can be flown in more wind once
you have mastered them in calm conditions.

Below I list electric planes for beginners. Some come ready to fly, some are
almost ready to fly (add your own radio gear) and some are kits. All of them
are electric. If you are looking for your first plane, you should find
something here to peak your interest.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, these articles may be helpful.


RC Planes Are not like RC Cars
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=17

Stall
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31

Launch into the wind
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43

Parts of the plane and how they work
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=54

The RC Pilots Cockpit
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59

Flying the Plane
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=64

New Electric Flyer FAQs
http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/a105.shtml

Six Keys to Success for new e-flyers
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Electric Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box
These also glide well so you can thermal soar
with them under the right conditions.


Slow-V from Parkzone - $140 - Space CL2/3
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is the best choice for people
who only have a small space to fly or who have an indoor place to fly, such as
a gym or
similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2074785/anchors_2089493/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#2089493
Video
http://users.cwnet.com/dhsc19/Slo_V_Aerobatics.wmv
Night fly module on a Slo-V
http://rc-galaxy.com/messageboard/mb.asp?M=Slow_Flyers&CMD=ViewMsg&num=-8


T-Hawk - RTF - Excellent Value - $170 - space CL1
Comes with extra wing, tail and battery
Flies well and stands up to hard landings
Can be flown on 27 MHz or 72 MHz
http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243202&highlight=THawk
Videos
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawkvideos.html


Easy Star - RTF - $180 - Space CL1
Believe this goes easily back in the box to keep in the car
Super tough foam. Comes with 72 MHz radio in the US.
Good parkflyer and a good glider
Radio in RTF package can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656
Video - touch and gos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
Video - Testing the plane's behavior
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv


Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $150 - Space CL1
Great keep in the car plane - take off the wing and it goes back in the box!
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 350 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal
and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard landings. Their
add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat and drop module add
to the fun!
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=HBZ3500
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Discover/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html




ALMOST READY TO FLY and EASY TO BUILD KITS - STARTER PLANES


Below are ARF and simple kit planes. You will need to buy a radio if you don't
have
one, so you might want to read these articles on radios. The
articles are written for sailplane beginners, but all the info applies to
electrics too.

Entry Level Radios - If you have to go cheap
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44

Computer Radios - The recommended path for almost everyone
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65


Below are ARFs wood and foam packages as well as some are very
easy to build all wood kits. In each case you must add your own radio,
receiver,
servos, speed control, batteries and battery charger. They all come with a
motor.

Slow stick - $35 - CL2/3
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_53&products_id=2
or
Slow stick Complete Package incl radio - $150
(need battery charger)
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=602
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is an excellent choice for
people who have a smaller space to fly.
Can also be flown indoors in a gym or similar space.
The RTF Slo-V above is essentially a copy of this plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=GWS1040
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122951
video
http://www.skrogg.com/sun.wmv

Tiger Moth - $50 CL 2/3
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_53&products_id=20
or
Tiger moth Complete Package incl. radio - $150
(need battery charger)
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=343
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze.
This is an excellent choice for people who have a smaller space to fly. Can
also be flown indoors in a gym or similar space. Cool looking little plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=GWS1020
Review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/tiger_moth.asp

Tipsey - $55 CL 1
Remove the wing and it goes back in the box for simple
protected transport or keep in the car fun!
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Review
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pdf/gr6232.pdf
http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?sid=498277416&t=article&cat=198&id=3871

Magpie - CL 2
I recommend the $55 package with two wings.
Has slow fly/trainer wing AND an aileron sport wing.
Master the first, then advance to the second.
They offer a complete package with both wings and all the electroncis for $160
Makes it so easy to get it right!
http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php
discussion threads
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3502851#post3502851
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306795&highlight=SmoothE+build
Video - slow fly wing
http://www.mountainmodels.com/Magpie.wmv
Sport wing
http://www.mountainmodels.com/MagpieSP.wmv

SmoothE - E$50 CL2
Easy to build Balsa and foam kit. Build as 3 Channel Slow Flyer
Optional 4 channel aileron trainer when you are ready
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
Discussion Threads
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234349&highlight=SmoothE+build
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205796&page=19&pp=15
Funny video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/SmoothEsmall.WMV

Carbon Falcon ARF - $140 including servos
Almost nothing to build. This may be the ultimate take it with you plane
Folds up to almost nothing for travel or for keep in the car fun!
http://www.acesim.com/rc/p2/p2.html
Review
http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?t=article&cat=198&id=4236
Video
http://www.acesim.com/rc/p2/videos.html

Frog - Foam kit CL2 - $39
http://www.foamfly.com/customer/product.php?productid=18399&cat=&page=&XCARTSESSID=04d939c11f21a1aae3acfe94b8213f09
Instructions
http://www.foamfly.com/Plans/Frog_Instructions.PDF

Dandy - $42 - CL2
Wood kit
http://www.mountainmodels.com/dandy.php
Complete package - $122
Build thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359035
Video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/dandy.wmv

Dusk Stik $40 CL2
Balsa Wood Kit
Similar to GWS Slow stick or ParkZone Slo-V in design
http://www.mountainmodels.com/duskstik.php
Complete package with all electroncis - $112
http://www.mountainmodels.com/duskstik.php



ELECTRIC GLIDERS

Have you considered an electric glider? Usually larger than the typical
parkflyer, they also tend to be quite stable and fly a bit slower, which makes
them easy to fly.

If you would like to try soaring with the birds, then an electric glider might
be a good choice. These planes are launched with an electric motor. They can
be flown around using the motor, like a parkflyer, or they can be flown to
height, then the motor is turned off and you hunt for thermals, just like the
birds.

They can do loops and simple aerobatics, but are really optimized for thermal
soaring. The Aerobird and the T-Hawk, which are often mentioned as first
parkflyers, glide and thermal pretty well, but they come with fixed props.
These planes include folding props which make the plane more streamlined and
so it can glide better than a fixed propeller plane.

Some are RTF which are fully built, include all the radio gear with everything
installed. Battery and charger are included with the RTF planes. Some are
ARFs where you assemble the simple package, then add your own radio equipment.
Some are available either way.

With these planes you get a good first plane, a good first electric and a good
electric glider. It may not have been what you were thinking, but it may be
exactly what you were looking for.

Easy Star - RTF - also listed above CL1
This is a Park Glider - can be flown as parkflyer or glider
Great keep in the car plane!
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656
Video - touch and gos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
Video - Testing the plane's behavior
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv


Ascent - this is a park glider ARF - CL2
It can be flown as a parkflyer or a glider
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL1075
Review
http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?t=article&cat=237&id=4233


Easy Glider - This is probably too large to be considered a park flyer but the
combination of great flying ability, tough Elapor construction and great
thermal or slope soaring ability makes this an excellent first electric
sailplane. - CL2

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHS8&P=7
http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/ParkFliers/EasyGliderE.htm
http://www.modelspot.com/mpx/easyglider.htm
Video
http://www.multiplex-rc.de/cms/vorschau/upload/d_videos/easyglider_electric.wmv
http://www.elflight.dk/video5/easy-gl-hang.wmv
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347989

If you are not familiar with soaring, it is a lot of fun. Flights can be as
short as parkflyer flights, or can last for hours, if you find lift.

This article may be helpful in understanding lift and the fun that e-gliders
offer to the electric flyer.

Finding Lift
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=57

[aeajr]

I hope my comments about the ABC weren't overly harsh, I tried to temper my own experiences with the Aerobird by mentioning all of the positive comments I've heard about the plane.. I don't think it's a bad plane at all, and I'm still flying mine.

We've just had a really, really windy spring here. I didn't have much luck trying to fly mine solo early on, and I'm sure enthusiasm won out over caution on a couple of occassions when I flew the Challenger even though I should have known better.

I've pounded the holy living heck out of my Aerobird Challenger, it's taken numerous hard landings. What isn't very, very tough is easily replacable and the availability of spare parts at the local hobby stores is unmatched by any other brand of R/C plane.

I think Hobbyzone makes good products that are a good value, I've just been frustrated by my initial attempts to fly my ABC.

I think your inital post and this one are excellent and informative discussions of inital experiences and hidden costs related to RTF electrics and Glow planes.

Mine is half way between yours and icwtumn's experience. I pounded my poor Aerobird like crazy and learned how to fix the results. Today I love the plane and have added a bunch of others.

I ignored all the warnings in the Aerobird manual and took it out to fly initally in too much wind. I now know that the plane can handle quite a bit of wind, but I, as a new flyer, could not. Now I fly it in 15 mph winds if I wish, though 10 mph is much more enjoyable.


The message here is not about the Aerobird but about wind and its impact on new flyers.

The larger, heavier, more powerful glow planes will definately handle wind better than light electrics. The same applies to larger, heavier, more powerful electric models. They will handle wind better than the typical light weight parkflyer.

What is not apparent to the new flyer is that this is not a glow vs electric issue this is a size, weight issue. Bigger, heavier planes handle wind better. Even my unpowered sailplanes, which are larger and heavier than my parkflyers, handle wind better.

In fact if you take something like a slow stick, which is a slow flyer, and add a heavier battery pack to it, it handles wind better.

When I am training new pilots on Aerobirds or any other parkflyer, I insist on under 5 MPH winds for inital flights. Otherwise you are fighting the wind rather than flying the plane.

[HBNelson]

wow aeajr... You really gave me a glimpse at all angles of the hobby. I am quite interested in building my model but with limited experience i think a rtf plane is best. I can get some practice with the modeling when doing needed repairs before I go all out. By the way, they are called park flyers, but can they legally be flown in parks? Im going to call and find out to make sure.

[aeajr]

wow aeajr... You really gave me a glimpse at all angles of the hobby. I am quite interested in building my model but with limited experience i think a rtf plane is best. I can get some practice with the modeling when doing needed repairs before I go all out. By the way, they are called park flyers, but can they legally be flown in parks? Im going to call and find out to make sure.

Are they legal to fly in the parks? Depends on where you live. This is a local law thing.

[HBNelson]

Great news!

Memorial weekend was a blast. We went down to south carolina (im live in maryland) and i brought along my "Fly RC" magazine and it caught the eye of a friend of mine. I asked if he knew of any hobby shops nearby and sure enough there was one. So i get there and the gentleman was very nice and I purchased an aerobird challenger!

So i get back to their house and charge the batteries, run the tests and soon enough we were out on the field. I was so nervous.. My first flight? now? I cant be ready. So i threw on the throttle and my friend made a perfect toss into the wind. Before i could realize what was happening i was flying in the air! It was slightly windy for the first flight but all in all everything went smooth. There was a forest downwind of the field so i was nervous about making my turns too late. I noticed when gliding you have significantly less control over the plane so i would always add some throttle to help steer.

When we took it out the second time, i got a little to close to the trees and had to make a sharp turn. At the same time, a gust of wind came and the plane took a hard 20ft dive into the ground. We tried throwing but no success. The plane kept diving into the ground and we couldnt figure out what was wrong. After looking at the plane inside, i noticed the elevators on the tail were downward so i used the included tool to adjust the tension in the lines.

We took it back to the field and it flew great. Even with a dent in the front and a wing peice torn by the prop the plane flew like a charm. The wind was getting worse and once the plane was actually over the top of the 40ft trees and wasnt responding. I turned it around although i was incredably nervous about losing altitude and getting caught atop the trees but i pulled out fine. By the end of the day i was doing rolling takeoffs and landings that were so smooth. I was suprised at the power of the aerobird especially with the flimsyness of the landing gear on the tall grass it managed to takeoff and land without much issues other than turning a bit.

Comming home on the plane i got a comment from a security checkpoint agent saying he was looking to get into the hobby as well and we talked for a few minutes about the planes (not that i know too much to begin with). It was a little bulky as carry-on luggage but i wasnt going to risk checking it in and getting it damaged.

I LOVE MY AEROBIRD! i cant wait to get out soon and fly again. Thank you all for your help!

[aeajr]

Glad to hear you had a fun first experience despite ignoring the advice to fly in calm conditions for your first flights.

It also sounds like you were launching with the wind rather than into the wind. Not a good practice. You should always be flying up wind. Don't let the plane get down wind from you because if you get into trouble, you will lose the plane.

Here are some more helpful tips.

I have been flying my original Aerobird since March 2003. I added an Aerobird
Challenger a few months ago. Between them I have over 300 flights. I love
them both!

Today my fleet consists of 2 Aerobirds, 3 other electrics, 7 thermal
duration sailplanes, two discus launched gliders and three slope gliders.

I recently added lights to the original Aerobird for night flight. That was
weird. It was like flying a ghost. You can't see the plane, only the lights.
They now have a night module for the challenger. I have that too.

I pounded the original Aerobird into the ground, destroyed three wings,
and two tails. I had to build a new motor mount because I destroyed that too.
All this, and the plane still flies, but it has taken a real beating. That is
what makes it such a great three channel beginner plane. Along the way I have
had to solve many problems because I was so reckless with it while I was
learning to fly it. So, I pass on what I have learned.

Fortunately the newer Challenger has had a somewhat easier life, but it still
gets banged around a bit because I will take risks with it that I would not
expose my other planes to, because I know it can take it, and if I destroy the
fuse, for $45 I get a new body, and all the electronics. So I can afford to
take chances with my challenger.

First - RTFM - If you lost your manual, you can download it here:
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Products/Detail.aspx?ProductID=HBZ3500#manuals

Respect Wind

This plane can definitely fly in 12-15 mph winds. However wait till you have
mastered it. Most of my crashes came from flying in too much wind before I was
ready. Make your early flights in under 5 mph winds.

Always launch into the wind and land into the wind. And, fly with the wind
blowing toward you so the wind will not carry your plane away, it will tend to
bring it to you.

Motor Mount

This is the first thing you should do. Before you take a hard nose hit,
reinforce the motor mount. I will not elaborate here, visit this thread to
find the information. It contains advice from other pilots and what I finally
did to reinforce the mount. You should do this before you need it.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110532&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
This thread was posted by someone did an excellent job using photos to show
how to do the motor mount modification. I encourage you to make this
modification.
http://www.rc-forums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1173

Here are also some shots of the control board out of the plane which can be
helpful.
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b325c2c38435


Plane Does Not Fly Straight - what could cause this?

Assuming you have not displaced the motor, and you are having
problems with the plane not flying straight, check the following:

a) is the wing crooked or too damaged - try a new wing.

b) Check the trim adjustments. They may have been moved from center. Set
them to center and make all adjustments assuming you will fly with the trim
set in the center.

c) Check the tail. The foam is attached to the center plastic brace by small
pieces that punch through the foam. These can loosen up and the tail fin can
move slightly away from the plastic brace in the air which can cause the plane
to turn.

Tape or glue the tail fins to the center plastic brace. Also, look for creases
in the foam. If there is a weak spot, the tail will flex causing the plane to
turn. mine was creased at the
meeting point where the plastic support meets the tail. Looked fine on the
ground, but it was flexing in the air causing a hard right turn leading to
crashes. Replace the tail.

d) Make sure the moveable surfaces are even with the fixed surfaces on the
tail when the stick is centered and the trim levers are centered. You MUST
check this with the transmitter on and the battery attached. If they are not
even, adjust them with the screws on the control horns. The procedure is in
the manual. RTFM

Note, there is a tiny Phillips head screw on the back of the control horn on
the tail. Tighten it or the spool could unwind while the plane is in the
air, causing a crash. (Guess how I know this!)

e) Check to see that the boom is solidly attached at the body. If this comes
loose, it can move around while the plane is flying causing all kinds of
problems. It can also
twist so that the tail is no longer aligned.

If you look at where the boom is attached inside there is a pinched area. I
drilled a small hole through the top of that area and through the boom. Then
I put a 4" nylon tie through to help secure the boom. I also put packing tape
around the boom and the back of the body where the boom exits. Between the
two, the boom is well secured.

The Porpoise

When you apply power the plane starts to climb then noses up, then the nose
drops and it does it all over again. This is called a stall. The problem is
that the tail needs to be trimmed, the front is too low or the back is too
high. This causes an up elevator effect. Adjust the orange screws on the
tail. The procedure is in your instruction book. RTFM You might have to slip
a piece of thin cardboard under the front if the front is too low, to shim it
up slightly.

Longer flights

Back off on the power. Both the 6 and 7 cell battery will last six to
seven minutes at full power. However, if you back off to half power, your
flights can last 12-15 minutes depending on how you fly. You can even
catch thermals with the Aerobird and riding them for long long flights with
the motor off. I also slope soar mine. On the slope you can stay up for over
an hour with the motor off.

If you charged your batteries a few days ago, top them up just before
flying. They lose charge just sitting around.

Neck Strap for the Transmitter

If you look at the high priced Futaba, Hitec and other radios, they have a
place where you can clip a cord so that the radio can hang from a neck strap,
leaving your hands free to make adjustments on the plane. This is very
convenient.

Take a large paper clip and bend up the center piece in the middle to make a
place where you can clip a neck strap to it. Now take some sand paper and
sand a spot in the center of the radio. Epoxy the paperclip to the radio. Use
plenty so you can really embed the clip in the epoxy.

Reinforce the Wing

Got to Office Depot, or one of the other storea and get some glass reinforced
tape. The type that has a cross
pattern is best.
http://www.officedepot.com/ddMain.do?level=FM&id=171926&location_info=SG_1_DV_11_CT_1105_SC_1105001_FM_171 926
Put a piece on either side of trailing edge where the prop wants to bite the
wing if a landing is a little rough. Also centered in the front 6" on either
side of the body to help resist damage from the rubber bands. The newer wings
may come reinforced but you may wish to do this anyway.

Make sure you have a spare prop, they're cheap. Since the prop is less likely
to cut the reinforced wing, if it hits the wing, it might pop the prop off, or
break it. However normally this does not happen.

If you get a crease or a fold in the wing from a rough landing, this will be a
weak area. The foam is compressed and the wing will tend to fold up under
stress. I have a procedure for fixing wings. Post if you need it and I will
post it for you.

Learn to Glide in for a Landing

If you run the battery too long, the speed control will cut the power to the
motor while preserving power for the control surfaces. This is good! If you
learn to land with the power off, if you get caught in the air with no motor,
you will have no problem landing. Gliding in, even from 500 feet, in 15 mph
winds is my standard way of landing. In calmer air, the plane pretty much
lands itself from 10 feet in the air.

Parts

These planes have a great distribution system. Parts are very readily found
in most hobby stores. However if you can't get what you need, look here:
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Support/


HobbyZoneSports Frequently Asked Questions - Couldn't hurt to look!
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Support/FAQ.aspx

Plane Locator

When I was learning, or today if I fly strong winds, I use one of these on the
plane and one stays in my pocket.
If I put the plane down in very tall grass, or in the woods ( don't ask ) it
can be hard to find. If I am looking for the plane, I click the one in my
hand and the one on the plane answers. If you fly near woods, swamps, tall
grass, etc., get one of these. I mount it under the rubber bands that holds
on the wing. Doesn't seem to hurt the lift much at all.
www.keyringer.com

Summary

Here are a few tips to help you live happily with your Aerobird and
help it survive your poor piloting skills. With a little luck, the plane will
make it through the tough part of your training as you pound it into the
ground trying to learn to fly. Don't give up! Avoid the wind, take your time
and you will get it!

New Electric Flyer FAQs
http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/a105.shtml

Oh, and RTFM ..... read the friendly manual!!!! :-)


------------------
Best regards
AEAJR
www.lisf.org
www.rcezine.com

[Devin1]

Regarding legality of flying in the park... Do you realy want to know the answer? Good neither do I. It is far easier to ask for forgivness than permision.

My first flight was at the local park. I chose the unused baseball feild. I even had a police officer pull up closer to see what I was doing. I waved and he waved and I flew. Is it legal? Does it matter? The more important question is, is it safe to fly? Will I damage anything other than my plane and the ground if I lose control? Common sense I beleive is more important than legality.

BTW, great post!

[cornetto]

I've recently got into this hobby, and I used a Mountain Models Smoothe as recommended above, but I cut my teeth on a Graupner Tipsy, which was better because it was made of foam, cheap, and easily repairable. For more details, follow this link to my website:

http://www.mrsquires.co.uk/planes

[aeajr]

Great web site and an interesting journey. Thanks for sharing it!