Should all TCs be 200mm?

[PeterV]

That's our latest survey question; click back to http://www.rccaraction.com/ to log in with your vote, then come back here to discuss if you feel the need to sound off at length! My vote: Make 'em all 200mm.

Special thanks to Steve Pond for coming up with the great survey question. By the way, feel free to submit your survey question suggestions to me at peterv@airage.com.

[BigCatDaddy-Outlaw]

I agree with you Peter! I think it would make it easier on us all, and maybe instead of spending so much time and money on making two size bodies, the companys could concentrate on making more bodies, like retro 80s bodies, classics, muscle cars, and so on. I would rather have a large selection of 1 size, than a slim selection of more than 1 size.

[Distro]

All 200mm would be nice, and it wouldn't be TOO hard for companies to make upgrade kits to fix it (wider chassis in some cases or longer a-arms or both.) It would also save HPI i'm sure loads of money making bodies. I'm not sue why they didn't make their pro 3 200mm. Mabye its because they have to be 190 to race, guess that is its.

[Smitty]

I think it would be awsome to have all cars 200 mm. There are some awsome bodies that don't work on the 190 mm bodies. In fact I would like to change my electric 4-TEC 200 mm. Could I use the nitro 4-TEC front/rear arms? With those arms would the Titanium Turnbuckles fit?

[XXXER]

My vote was also for 200mm, that would just make sense, you know? Plus, with the TC3, if you buy the rally conversion, it is 200mm, so, Losi, HPI, and Tamyia should follow them up

[Top End]

I don't feel strained because electrics are 190mm and nitros are 200mm. As for the strain on the manufacturers, I'm sure they can handle it.

I say 190mm for both electric and nitro! Thats where it started, nitro is what became different, why should electric have to change to accomodate nitro?

[SteveP]

Top End - don't kid yourself, the "strain" on the manfacturers is passed along to you in the form of higher prices. Nobody is suggesting that the electric cars have to change to conform to the nitro cars - the nitro cars could be made 190mm also. If there is a change however, common sense dictates a wider car. Also, anyone who already makes a rally version of their touring car already has what they need to go 200. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by SteveP (edited 03-11-2001).]

[PeterV]

Gee Steve, are ya sure ya put enough thought into your response? Tolstoy would think that post was long! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Seriously, when I wrote the text for the survey at Steve's suggestion, the only defense I could come up with for 190mm electrics was scale! Who cares? I remember racing my 200mm electric RS4, and feeling like I could do no wrong. In addition to all the points Steve made, the wide cars flat-out work better. I'm putting rally conversion arms on my TC3 to beef it up to 200mm. It's not legal, but if the track isn't teching, I'm going for it! Besides, no one cares about the legality of your setup when you don't make the A. Or the B...


An additional thought for Top End: the higher CG of a nitro car makes it easier to roll the car over, and a 190mm chassis would only exacerbate the problem.

[PeterV]

I just clicked back from the survey. I can't believe it's so close! Let's hear from the keep-electrics-190mm guys. Why do you prefer the narrower setup?

[This message has been edited by PeterV (edited 03-11-2001).]

[XXXER]

oh, oh, i know, more aerodynamic! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[joe]

hey we all know that nitro racers rule so if they want two zero zero then you little electric babies should let em have it, didn't yo mama's teach you r-e-s-p-e-c-t?


8^)

[SteveP]

Bad Joe - no nitro for you - two months! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[SteveP]

Here's my take on it: Tamiya gets credit for having started the touring car thing, and at the time, the cars were just a shade under 190mm. So, it was wise at the time to establish the 190mm limit. For some reason, the nitro cars went to 200mm (I believe HPI was the first with a 200mm car). Now, all nitro cars are 200mm and the electrics are 190mm. Many manufacturers of touring cars make both nitro and electric, but they are forced to make different components to accommodate the different widths. Also, body manufacturers have to make bodies in two different widths. I think this is an unnecessary strain on manufacturers, hobby shops and on-line retailers, distributors and consumers. It's a strain on the manufacturers because of the extra expense of tooling for these separate parts and bodies, it's a strain on the retailers and distributors because of the extra storage and retail display area required, and it's a strain on consumers because the costs of the aforementioned have to be recovered somewhere, which translates into more expensive product. The consumer is also faced with more limited choices with respect to bodies, because manufacturers either don't make the bodies in both widths, or there's a significant delay in re-tooling to accommodate another width body.
The reasons for having established the current rules were solid, but the landscape has changed and I think it would be to everyone's benefit to change with the times. I would suggest a rules change by the major sanctioning organizations that suggests something like: By whatever date in 2002, 200mm electric touring cars will be legal. That would give consumers and manufacturers enough time to respond to the change without too much fanfare. Yes, there are costs associated with making a 190mm car 200mm wide for manufacturers that don't already have a rally or nitro car with the longer arms (current rules for nitro touring and rally cars allow for 200mm width). I think however, that the costs involved is far outweighed by the long-term benefit of establishing a uniform width among these similar cars. What's your opinion?

[This message has been edited by SteveP (edited 03-11-2001).]

[joe]

hey chris, take pond's charger away for a while and see what happens

8^)

[HauntedMyst]

I think they should be kept as they are. Electrics are more challenging to drive given their power to wieght ratio and we don't need the extra 10mm training wheels the nitro guys need so why change them?


What I think would be better would be standardized body mounting postions for TC's, trucks and buggies. It would be a great benefit to everyone to be able to drill and drop like you can with an HPI body instead of marking, guessing and hoping for the best they way you do with every other manufacturer.

[BigCatDaddy-Outlaw]

Myst, for me I don't need another 10mm for "training wheels", but it would be nice to go to the hobby shop drop 60 bux on some bodies, paint em, and know that I can drop that shell on either my electric or nitro, and not worry anout changing arms and stuff to make my electric tc wide enough to rum that 200mm shell.

I also like the idea of uniform body post locations for that cut and drop ease.

that's my .02 http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[HauntedMyst]

Cat,
I actually don't care, I was just knocking the nitro ninnies who say things like "nitro racers rule" when the eletrics at my track beat them nearly every time http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

This industry needs to do more in terms of ease of use the way the computer industry has. I like the scale looks of 190mmm but am willing to give them up for the ease of use of one size fits all. Some companies still don't provide window masks and overspray film with their bodies? This isn't 1980 and I don't but their bodies unless they have one I can't get with those features. The Losi Street Weapon didn't take standard hex wheels? What was with that?
They are working on their next offering so why not just make molds for mounting that use the HPI mounting holes. Are they the optimal spots? Maybe not but they sure are easier to use.

Here's what I'd like to see:
Standard hex wheels for TC's
Standard tire mount for Trucks and buggies
Standard Servo horn mount (the round part you put the horn on)
ONE type servo connector (the Z is a great start)
On/Off switches built in all ESC.
Deans style connectors on motors and batteries (the tamiya and bullet connectors are just old)
Two styles of spec racing tire (Hard and Soft - Losi Blues are great)
The current crop of Stock motors are great but it's time to add bearings to them.
ALL motors should have built in capasitors
A true stock class with 2000 size battry limits, spec tires and bearing kit basic kits to make it easier and cost effecient for new people to join the hobby, as easy as walk in the store, buy a kit and simple peak chager and be able to run in a class for $300 or less but with a car that can be fully upgraded to a pro level.

Anyways, just my ideas. Take them for what their worth.

[This message has been edited by HauntedMyst (edited 03-13-2001).]

[BigCatDaddy-Outlaw]

You are spot on Myst. It would be nice. *floats away dreamily and sighs* Espesially the "true" stock class. I think Losi, bolink, trinity, and all these companys are putting a good foot forward towards more affordable racing for those who can't afford to rum pro level cars.

Maybe one day the r/c companies will come into the 21st century with the rest of us.

[ammoace]

My two cents is on the 200mm as a industry standard for TC car widths.
Myst has made some very good points. especially about the "true stock" class.
I also think that this hobby would be easier on all of our budgets if more things were standardized. For example:
What defines a touring car? Is it the body?
What defines a rally car? Is it the tires?
What defines a Monster Truck? Is it the suspension travel? and so on.
The only pitfall would be keeping the varity of the manufactures products so they have their own identity.
I would LOVE to be able to go into the LHS and say "I want those rims and that body." and not ask "Will they fit my "Wild Rascal" Touring car?" Having a standard would eliminate the "will it fit question."

Steve,
I agree with your short story post above. (LOL) http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

AMMOACE

[foo]

Tamiya wheel hexes pretty much are the standard size. If another company decides to produce something different, it's their fault..

Tamiya battery connectors are also industry standard. I'd rather not pay for deans plugs because I don't use deans plugs. (I don't use Tamiya's either, but if I have to pay for a plug I'm not going to use, I'd rather pay for the cheaper one.)

[Hawkeye]

I agree with Top End, make them both 190mm, I like the scale apeal. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[ctaylor8211]

Like they said, the scale look of the body would be altered. If there were 10 different body sizes, i might think they should be the same. But its not so don't change. If its not broken don't fix it.

[penday]

All bodies should be of a uniform size because I believe that an "open" class in which gas and electric cars run together will benefit the hobby.

[joe]

whats wrong with an open class with two slightly different body sizes?

[penday]

Two slightly different size bodies are OK by me, 200mm would be the max. An "open" touring car class would allow anything that could be stuffed under the body. The only restrictions being scale wheels, tires and wings. If you want to run a direct drive with foamies and eight cel quick-change packs, thats fine. So's a .21 engine with 125cc fuel tank.

Run long races on a slick track and driver

talent will still be the deciding factor. I think manufacturers would all try to invent the better mousetrap instead of copying each other.