I can't decide. Gas or Electric?

[backyardbasher]

Ok. I'm interested in getting an R/C car, but debating between gas or electric. Few things:
1) When ppl say there's a lot more maintenance in gas cars, how much more? I don't mind doing it, but I've heard of ppl stripping down the car entirely after each run. Isn't that a little excessive? Is that called regular maintenance? What is considered regular maintenance? What's considered going overboard?
2) Seems like going gas is more convenient to me. Gas has longer running times compared to a stick of batteries? Am I right? Looks like I would have to carry at least 4 sticks of batts to have at least some decent play time. Whereas you just carry a jug of fuel and a whole gallon could last hours. And adding up the costs of batts, chargers, dischargers, etc. could be much $$$$$. Seems like there's also maintenance involved in taking care of batteries. What sort of charger would I need so that I won't have to sit and watch the batt. while it charges so I know it won't heat up too much? And how much?

That's all the comments/questions I could think of right now. Based on what I know so far:
I would say, for me, the major CONS against getting electric would be:
a) Cost of batts, chargers, dischargers, etc...
b) The down time waiting for a battery to charge. Whereas if I run out of fuel, I just go out and buy another jug. Basically I don't want to sit around waiting for the batt.

And major CONS for gas:
a) Maintenance. To me visual inspection is ok. The after-run oil procedure is ok. What seems to be a put-off for me is how often I would have to strip down the car for a thorough maintenance. Or how much time involved in the maintenance.
b) Cost of an engine replacement? I haven't researched this one yet, but I figure the cost of an engine won't be cheap, therefore, it's on my CON list. Then again, how much mileage can I expect out of an engine before replacement/rebuild? If once a year, livable. If once a month. Ouch.
c) Being able to run the car year-round. My concern here is finding organized local races to participate in during the winter months. In my area (Vancouver, Canada), so far, I know of no organized events for gas cars in winter. It's not really too much of a problem since I could always race in the parking lot for fun, but I guess better with other ppl.
d) Noise. This used to be my turn-off too, but I think I'll be sensible enough to do it at proper hours of the day. And not in the church parking lot during church sessions. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Wow. I think my posting is getting too long. Sorry administrator. Anyways, I need you guys to shed some light on this.

[tadium54]

ok
let me set you stright. From the cons of electric, there is only one, waiting for it to charge. buying batterys is pretty cheep and so isthe chargers. discharging your car is easy, unless you have an open saddle pack.all you need to do is toput wood or something to elevate the whells off the gtound, and let it run itself when the throtle is still on. engines are pretty expensive, about $114-329.to make the car run at it's best, you have toclean it every few runs. this doesn't mean that you have to dissasemble your rig, but clen it wih a pipecleaner and rag. once every year, diss asemble your rig and clen the engine more thoughorly. it als matters if yourer going off road or on road. it also matters what your mAh level your pack is. if it's anything like 3000, then youl only need oner pack, i have a 1700 pack and it runs for about 30 mins, when it's warm out. gas cars require more money to go fast, in my opinion. try to gets ome friends to join you, and look for indor racing. NiMh(nickel metal hydride) batteries require more mitenance, but run longer. look at the novak milenium if your goingn that way, it will work very well.
i ll help you in a little while, just as soon as i think of some other stuff
later
tadium

[XXXER]

I just use another tire mounted on a wheel to elevate my cars

[beeper]

Are you ever going to race? If you are you will want really nice batteries. Which can cost as much as $80 for 6 batteries. Now you can buy a lot of .12 engines for under 100. Piccos and other higher end engines will cost more. Look at this chager $30, one battery pack $30, discharger $20 sounds right, and then comes the ESC will say $60. $140 right there. Plus as many battery packs you want gets kinda $$$. For bashing around Nitro has a lot of Pros. When I drive my NXT I don't tear it down after ever run I just keep it clean. I had to make this choice no more then three months ago. I went with nitro and love it.
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[beeper]

Oh nitro cars do not require more money to go fast. You can get a TRAXXAS (not that I would get one) Nitro sport for $210 that is 35 mph.
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[backyardbasher]

tadium:

What really worries me about electric cars is the cost of all batts, chargers, etc. I guess a discharger is not really a neccesity, like you said, I could just run it till it dies. How bout a high quality charger? I'm getting confused with all this charger technology. Do I really need a high end charger? If I buy a cheap crappy charger, do I have to sit and watch it while it charges, making sure it does not overheat? I read all these stories where people say you should stop the charger right BEFORE the battery gets hot? If I'm a tad late, do I ruin the battery?

Also, you said you get 30 mins on the 1700mAh. Is that about average time? If I'm just starting out just playing around for fun and not racing, what type of battery should I be getting? 1700maH? 2000maH? And what would be the average run times for these during normal use?

[This message has been edited by backyardbasher (edited 10-29-2000).]

[backyardbasher]

Originally posted by beeper:
Are you ever going to race? If you are you will want really nice batteries. Which can cost as much as $80 for 6 batteries. Now you can buy a lot of .12 engines for under 100. Piccos and other higher end engines will cost more. Look at this chager $30, one battery pack $30, discharger $20 sounds right, and then comes the ESC will say $60. $140 right there. Plus as many battery packs you want gets kinda $$$. For bashing around Nitro has a lot of Pros. When I drive my NXT I don't tear it down after ever run I just keep it clean. I had to make this choice no more then three months ago. I went with nitro and love it.
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm not thinking of racing initially. BTW, are those prices in $USD or $CDN?

[beeper]

Those prices are US. Those are not the top of the line products. That is a cheap peak charger. About that 30 min run time on a 1700 pack. What kind of motor you got? If you run mods at all you will not get near that. It also depends on what you are running on and and the gearing. So what kind of motor are you going to use and is it going to be on or off road?
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[tadium54]

agood charger is about 60 cdn(mine was a duratrax pirahna peek charger, and it works great. a 1700 pack runninig for 30 mins is with a 540 Johnson that came with my tamiya ww2. if your a tad late, it won't matter if you have a charger like mine, once it's peeked, it will shut itself down after a few mins of use. don't get a crappy charger, you regret it. cdn prices. 2000 mah would be good. that time is like i said with a 540 motor(silver can, no brushes)stoping the charger b4 it gets hot will keep it cool and working well, you can use a fan if you want to, that will help too. using 2000 would give u more run time by about 5 mins with a motor that came from a kit
more to come
later
tadium54

[Gutter Ball]

Let me tell you my experiences so far with both. If you're a beginner, I would NOT suggest nitro. My very first car(just 3 months ago) was the Nitro Sport with an OS Max engine. Trouble from the beginning. I knew nothing about nitro cars. The car didn't start on many occasions. After a week of sore shoulders(from pulling the stupid start wire) I figured out I burned out the glow plug!!! Okay, new glow plug...vroom! Way cool! Now to break in the engine. Followed the instructions to the T. Ready to play now. Reset the fuel delivery and off we went. Started her up, put the body back on and hit the throttle...the car stalls! ARGH! We got it running again, but I guess the throttle control was loose on the car and well...it popped off and my poor car was at full throttle into a wall! One dead Nitro Sport :/ So I went with electric and like it plenty! I have the Protrax Rustler, Bandit and a rolling chasis Sledgehammer that I'm going to rebuild soon. I only run the Rustler at the moment. I have 2 15 minute quick/peak chargers along with 5 batteries. I have 3 1500Mah batteries and 2 2000Mah batteries. There's no way I get 30 minute run times with any of them. The 1500's give me 10 minutes an the 2000's give me close to 20. If you keep the chargers going, you can play for hours at a time. So for me, electric cars were much more easier to start with. I will go Nitro when I learn more about them. Good luck!

[beeper]

Constantly recharging batteries is not good for them. You wear them out a lot faster that way. Now that me tell you my experience with nitro. Well a while back I found a good deal on a Team Losi NXT. Given I had read a lot of stuff I have not had any real problems. I love my car. I went out Saturday morning around 10:30 a.m. and didn't stop until the sun went down which was around 7:00. Man that was a blast. Now with elec, you most likely will not stay with a 540 very long if you are looking for speed, so then the run time drops. Go with what you feel is best. As long as you take care and respect your nitro car or truck it will not be bad to you.
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[RC X2000]

ok here's my opinion: A battery takes 15-30 mins to charge not much, does not matter what motor you run you will get atleast 10+ mins out of a battery pack 1500mah and higher, unless if you try to run a 8turn triple with a 1500 you will most likely get 2 mins. But anything for begginners to R/C shouldn't be running mod motors. Also a good charger would be a novak millineum those are the best chargers for your money, electric motors are much cheaper then glow engine and require less maintenece. I reccomend if your a begginer to get like 2 1500's battery packs about 11-15$ each and 2 1700's battery packs about 20$ you will have good run time also if your running a stock motor then you will get a good 15-35 mins out of each pack. But it also depends on what car you want to run on/off road that will be the main difference in maintnence, off road requires more therefore on road requires less maintenence so gives us a little more info: like what car/truck you gonna run and what motor your gonna run then we can give you some good ideas on how much run time you get. Later RC X

[This message has been edited by RC X2000 (edited 10-29-2000).]

[RC X2000]

ohh yeah 35mph isn't fast at all for a nitro i got a stock tamiya my first r/c (electric)
it went about 20mph with the stock 540 can! so everyone thinks nitro is faster then elec's but the truth is if you gear your car right and use the right motor you can make elec's better then nitro's in every possible way beside run time.

[StephenB]

Nitro, nitro, NITRO! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif The realism, power, speed, endurance...it's all about nitro. Steve Pond says it best---

batteries are for flashlights! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[gubbs3]

I had an electric first truck and then 2 gas trucks. The gas trucks are more fun but for messing around or a first truck then get electric. Nitro may sound more fun but would be way too much for a first timer. Charge times don't bother you until you get used to not having to wait, like going from nitro to electric. I had a lot of fun with my electric truck because I never had to tune it every time the weather changes. For messing around electric will be cheaper, if you go all out racing nitro will be cheaper. By the sounds of your post it sound as if this is your fist car- Get an electric! You will like it better for the first part of your hobby expirienced then after a year or so when you know exactly what you're doing then consider getting a nitro.

[beeper]

My first R/C car was a nitro. I do think it is much harder to maintain. Don't take someones opinion take my word for it. Nitro isn't as hard as everyone is making it out to be.
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[tadium54]

it would help if you told us what kit(s) you're looking at getting and the gear for both sides of it(electric and gas) beeper could help you with the nitro decisions, because i can admit that i have no real experience with nitro,and rc x2000 and i could help you with electric. i just got new electrics for my car.think about it and do some more research the kits you're thinking of.
later
tadium54
ps mail me tadium54@hotmail.com for more hepl and quicker responses)

[backyardbasher]

Wow! You guys are the best. I can't believe the response I'm getting with this thread. Anyways, I've pondered more and more. Still no car. I'm still catching up on reading all the other posts with my ample free time at work http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif)

Based on what everybody's said on this thread and also others, I have come up with some conclusions. Ok. gimme a couple of minutes. I want to summarize so far what I know.

[backyardbasher]

One thing just came to my mind. For those who own electric cars, how do you charge the batteries if you're not playing around outside the house? Like if you took your car to the parking lot where there's obviously no wall outlet to stick the charger into. Or do you just hook the charger up to the car battery as a power source? Or do you usually just bring enough battery packs to last the day? I'm assuming of course that you guys don't always play where there's an available wall outlet to charge the batteries.

One thing is for sure. I am definitely NOT going to hook up the charger to my car battery. Don't want nosy people to poke around my car when I'm distracted and the hood's open. Now, if I was always playing around within walking distance from my house, I guess 2 battery packs would suffice. But I know I won't be. Just as an aside, I plan to make use of this track I have at my university or even my high school and pretend I'm doing an oval track. ^-), but it's more than walking distance away. Anyways, so that means I gotta bring at least a few to make it worthwhile. For the sake of argument, let's assume I get 15 minutes run time out of one average pack. Is that reasonable? And I buy 4 packs at a cost of say $30USD/each. So gives me about 1 hour play time, which is good enough for a days work. That's gonna run me around $120USD just for batts. Put in a charger for say $40USD?
Actually, what's the average amount of time you would spend playing around with the car each time? 15 mins? 30 mins? 1 hour? more? I just want to get an idea of whether 2 battery packs would be enough for me if I were to choose electric. But if I knew I needed more than 2 packs, due to cost constraints I would tend to sway towards nitro. Oh and I'd like to know how long gas car owners play with their car too.

[backyardbasher]

I'm not too worried about the fact that nitro cars could be frustrating to learn. One of my PROS for nitro cars is that well it would be the CONS of an electric car. If electricity was made of water and you could buy it in a one gallon jug, I would not have even considered nitro cars. Seriously, don't laugh. I know my reasoning is probably flawed. Seriously now. Think for a moment. If electricity could come in a one gallon jug just like nitro fuel, would you nitro owners still have bought a nitro car, or would you have stuck with the "electric in a jug" car? Would there be any point in a nitro car then? Hmmmm.
Anyways, I do most work on my own real car, including the right down and dirty work, changing the oil, tranny fluid, brakes, coolant. So I don't think I'll mind cleaning up a greasy nitro car. And I've fixed some stuff in my real car, so I think I'm at least minimally mechanically inclined, not to say that my rudimentary mechanic skills would be applicable to R/C cars, but I have you ppl to ask tons of questions anyways, right? http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[backyardbasher]

As to what I would be using the car for, I would say probably playing around the parking lot by myself and a little dirt action, but no major jumps, maybe teeny weeny jumps perhaps. Maybe go to a local race once or twice a month if I have the time. Just so I can play with other people on a track. I don't think I would be serious in doing hop-ups though. I'm more worried about replacement parts if anything during crashes. So I want a durable and reliable car if anything, and not one that is fast and handles like a dream out of the box. Since I want to do some minor off-roading, I want to try and get a "true" rally car. If I can't then I'll just settle for touring car and maybe raise the suspension and slap on rally tires for the dirt. Sounds okay? Ok course I have to decide gas/electric first. Heh.

[beeper]

Well I have a nitro car and I run it for hours at a time. Like I said a few post up I went out at 10:30 a.m. and didn't come back till 7:00 p.m. Is that a days worth of driven? Well about the rally car thing. HPI ( www.hpiracing.com (http://www.hpiracing.com) ) is coming out with a "super" rally. It looks really cool. Go to there web site and check it out go to the R/C Forumn. That is the Rally car I would buy. Oh It is coming out soon I do believe (check for details). About the touring car rally thing I don't think that will work with a nitro touring car the belts world get messed up. Anymore questions just ask.
Good Luck
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Gutter Ball]

No doubt that Nitro has practically unlimited run time, when it's working http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif If you're inclined with real cars, then r/c shouldn't be a major problem. I have my 5 battery packs and I get my 45 minutes of fun, then that's it for me if I'm at a parking lot or at the park. But at my friend's backyard, I can play for ever! It's hard getting the batteries cool after a run so we can charge them. All we do is leave them near a fan and that's not too bad.

[RC X2000]

ok i'm not saying nitro is bad, but the truth is , is it really for begginners? i mean i said nitro was hard to maintain if your car was off road which is true most of the time, but i agree nitro is also very fun and fast you could run for like 8hours with nitro! but anyways electric i have 3 batts and they last me 45-mins to 1hour depending what i'm doing but with a racing set up i get about 35 mins of time! but i think about 5 batts will last you a good hour and 10 mins or more depending on the car. also if your a begginner get traxxas or tamiya cars! Later RC X hey tadium54 whats up? you post at my MB! lol thats cool see ya on here and at my MB!

[tadium54]

yeh rcx2000 i did but ain't no one responin to me yet
i know: it losi xxx fault
but id still like a reply

[Bydenso]

Basically, Electric is alot cleaner.(Japan has a air problem ) so fuel cost is high). So nows days I runn only electric but years ago I ran team Yokomo gas cars. But I miss the smell and power of gas. But electric is cleaner and quite. If it your first electric, then after you mastered electric go to gas. But don`t rush ( NO NOT HPI http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/tongue.gif :*) have fun and enjoy. I seen newbies jump from electric to gas in a month and after quit the hobby because of cause and cleanup problems.
Taka http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[highguy31]

If you know someone with nitro experience and can help you whenever you have a problem then nitro would be ok for a first car, nitro is alot of fun. I got an electric first and then nitro which made things much more fun and less frustrating because I knew what I would need to keep it running and what I need to do when maintaining it. It is easy to maintain an electric, they are fun and reliable(most of the time).

[aspiringrcracer710]

It really doesn't matter. Although, I would take note of the fact that Nitro is extremely loud (not to mention very exciting to listen to http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif), electric is a better medium for jumping into the hibby. Also, consider how deep your wallet is. You can't go tryin to get the biggest, baddest stuff out there if you cannot afford it. Get what you can afford and work you way up to the big bad stuff.


BJ Williams
aka aspiringrcracer710 (e-mail me if you need any more advice)

[RC X2000]

Originally posted by tadium54:
yeh rcx2000 i did but ain't no one responin to me yet
i know: it losi xxx fault
but id still like a reply

Dude what post? I never saw any post on there! that asked a question! if you ask it again then i will try to answer it! later RC X

[tadium54]

ok its in the buy sell and trade wanted ads under the name HEY ALOT OF MISC. FO SALE!!!(RC RELATED) and i asked for servos and suff like that but if it was your site, good job and it Losi XXX started it, so hes the one selling the stuff

[RC X2000]

ohhh ok i know what your talking about ya Losi XXX is selling a bunch of stuff and selling me a Spike ESC, so what did ya need from him? Later RC X

[R_C_MAN]

Backyardbasher- in an earlier post you mentioned the fact of having to buy all the batts and chargers needed to power the electric vehicle. Well you have to continously buy nitro fuel and glow plugs to keep that nitro car running. Over time that will exceed the price of the batts and charger. The only thing you have to pay for to keep the electric car running is the electric bill(unless you break parts). I'm not saying nitro is bad but that is just another way to look at it. I myself am planning on going nitro with an HPI Nitro MT, or if something else comes out better.

[tadium54]

i asked for a strong sterring servo for a wild willy2, brake light circuitry for a novak rooster, any plug converter for it to an airtronics z connector reciever, batteries or motors.and losi stuff and backyard basher;if you are looking at any kits, tell us please. that will help us help you

[aspiringrcracer710]

tadium you could get one of the newer Z servos from Airtronics those would probably work. THey should have one that is powerful enough for your application

And Backyard basher, you ought to get a sport version whether nitro or electric. There are some new products that they showed at the National Hobby Show in Chicago also might help you. Also, you don't have to have the biggest and baddest stuff You can get stuff for real cheap for backyard bashin (1400-2000 mAh sport packs are available at your LHS and Novak makes some good sport ESCs)

[This message has been edited by aspiringrcracer710 (edited 11-03-2000).]

[Rowdie]

If you're smart enough to keep an electric car working you can keep a nitro car working. In the past Nitro was just a total pain in the azz, but now day's I think it's less hassle then keeping up with batteries. Plus it's still much cooler then those electric toys. Dangman, get a nitro car!

Here's the deal. People are constantly going from electric to Nitro, but save the one guy on this board no one goes from nitro to electric.

[backyardbasher]

Sorry for not writing sooner guys. Anyways, I've given it much thought, and you guys have been great with all the advice, comments, suggestions, etc. There were some things I hadn't considered before till someone brought it up. And that was good. It gave me another perspective to look at things instead of rushing my decision. Well, to me what it boils down to were some questions I had to ask myself and the answers I gave myself in deciding all this:

1) Noise level of nitro cars -> This is irrelevant. Noise would not bother me, and I'll be playing at large open spaces in parks and baseball diamonds, not annoying ppl.
2) Price of Electric VS Nitro -> Now I've decided that I would pay a little more to get more enjoyment. I calculated roughly what I'd pay for a nitro and electric equivalent car plus all the necessities required to get started in the hobby. Nitro comes up more expensive, about $100-$150CDN more depending on the electric model I choose. I'll come back to this point again.
3) Battery/Chargers/Maintenance VS Nitro Engine Maintenance -> To me, the WHOLE aspect of batteries, charger, the maintenance involved in the whole process of properly charging a battery, using it, then storing it is just too much for me to get any enjoyment out of it. Whereas, I feel that with a Nitro car, granted being probably frustrated by starting problems, or leaking fluid, or god knows what else engine related problems, I find that I could tolerate and get more enjoyment out of the fact that the cause of the engine not starting is because of ...... I must say that I've also been reading my fair share of threads on this forum and others as well regarding battery maintenance as well as engine maintenance. After reading all that material, I find that I would probably enjoy being frustrated and maintaining nitro engines more than maintaining batteries.
4) Year-round usage of R/C Car -> Another biggy. Obviously an electric car can be played year round and anywhere. Indoor/Outdoor. Not a nitro car. If I got a nitro car now, I would miss out on ALL organized races because they're indoors now. So I contemplated. I think this might be something I can live with. More on this point later.
5) Run time duration -> Well obviously nitro cars run longer. But this is not what I'm debating here. Rather, I was debating the fact of the longest time I would actually want to play with an R/C Car per day/per outing. This was important for me to determine how many batteries I would need to get if I were to get an electric car. Now I'm still not sure as to how long an average battery should run on an average car. So I gave myself an estimate of 15 minutes run time. I know I need at least 2 batt packs to make it worthwhile a trip to the park say. And I know I won't have a facility to charge it and I'm not driving back and forth to retrieve the freshly charged packs from the house. And I know I won't be playing anywhere near my house. And I know I'm not using the car battery as a source. I figured I would probably end up getting 4 batt packs. Now with a decent peak detection charger costing maybe $60CDN and 1 decent batt pack costing $35, that would be total $200CDN. So that was a little expensive for me. Now I know the batts would last *almost* forever, and I know nitro fuel is not unlimited, I also considered the convenience of using fuel as part of the equation.

Ok, to sum it all up:
a) I've decided price was not a concern anymore given that I've calculated nitro car to be more expensive than electric.
b) CONVENIENCE, CONVENIENCE, CONVENIENCE! I feel for me, nitro cars are more convenient overall. And I'm willing to sacrifice price in favor of convenience as I have to buy more fuel in the end costing more.
c) Nitro cars cannot be played as often as electric cars AND no organized races (as far as I know) in winter. Like I said before, a MINUS, but I can swallow it.
d) Last point. To remedy problem c), I was actually thinking of getting a beater electric car, a real beater, cheap, like a TL01. If I could find one on sale/clearance at LHS I would get it. And this would last me through winter, then I would get nitro when summer comes. But I didn't want to maintain two cars at an extra cost (at first), so I dropped the idea.

As you can see I based my decision on b) and c). I valued CONVENIENCE as a deciding factor. And it got my vote. So if it's not apparent already. I'm choosing NITRO, NITRO, NITRO. I'm gonna get a NITRO. End of story. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm actually sick of thinking about this all day, every day. Any you guys are probably sick of this long thread. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif heh

Tell me what you guys think, and I'll post back with my *favored* nitro car choice to get. I'm off to my LHS right now. Later....

[steveb3]

You'll have more fun with electric. But you'll go a littl eoverboard with money.

[beeper]

Congrats on deciding you are going with Nitro. You will love it. I know I do.
**** luck
beeper http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[LRL17Bob]

<QUOTE from Tadium>
It also matters what your mAh level your pack is. if it's anything like 3000, then youl only need oner pack, i have a 1700 pack and it runs for about 30 mins, when it's warm out.
<ENDQUOTE>

I don't know what kind of batteries those are or what car Tadium is talking about but I only get about 7mins with my 1500mAh pack and an RC10T.

[backyardbasher]

Guys, thanks again for all your help and comments. I've started another thread on the Nitro forum, it's titled "Help me decide on a nitro car" Yes, now it's time to pick out my car, finally! Hope to see you in there.