Corally Wins ROAR Carpet On-Road Nats

[PeterV]

Team Corally's Chris Tosolini gives a victory salute (and a great plug for Airtronics) after winning Touring Mod at the ROAR Carpet Nats, held at West Haven CT's Hobby Chamber. The event also saw victories for Team Trinity/XRAY's Mike Dumas in 19T Touring, and the first-ever win for a brushless system at a ROAR nats as Team Associated's Jon Orr won 1/12 Mod using an LRP Sphere and Reedy NEO-1 brushless combo.

[Cain]

congrats to all on the win. Lots of discussion going on about the use of a brushless system in this race versus technology limits that ROAR has imposed on brushed motors.

[PeterV]

Can of worms open! Bring it! Key question: is it fair?

[TJMoore]

IMO: for open modified it is fair to use a brushless system, as it is a modified motor, but it should be at the race directors disgrestion. Just so long as it never hits the stock class i'm ok with it. Does anyone know where i can find a complete list of results from the 05 carpet nats?

[Sorcerer001]

Can of worms open! Bring it! Key question: is it fair?


Eh, it's about time things start shifting towards newer tech with regards to motors. The benefits of brushless are too huge to ignore. The biggest problem with brushless in the eyes of racers is that it'll be tough to gain an advantage through tuning and tweaking of a motor. I can understand this, since many racers consider these skills right up there with how well you handle a transmitter.
I guess my personal opinion is that I'm more interested in driving skill. Leave the motor magic up to the motor builder. Leave the driving and car setup up to the driver. I'm looking forward to the day we can run a 15 minute mod main using brushless motors and LiPoly packs.

[MacII]

I'm cool with Brushless being OK but I think it should only be for SHIPPING product, that is, product that is available to ALL racers. The Sphere/Neo One is not yet shipping, its 3+ months behind original release and yet somehow it made its way to a ROAR race...

If the only way someone can win is with product no one else can run, I guess its not really much of a victory at all.

MacII

(Yes, I'm a little bitter about my backorder for the Sphere/Neo One)

[stormperson]

Right now the rules are not fair, and its not because brushless should not be racing with brushed its the different rules. Brushless motors do not have a $95 retail max, they are allowed to use rare earth magnets and a few other things that brushed motors are not allowed to use due to the current rules package, although ROAR already addressed this and is allowing equal rules for brushed and brushless in '06.

Having driven novak's new prototype brushless system, I can say I am going to be bugging charlie until i get one! lol Its faster than any factory wound motor I have ever driven (and by factory I mean motors actually wound by dieter, chad, oscar, sean, etc...) and has the runtime to back it up, and unlike the orignal generation of brushless it actually has a powerband similar to a brushed motor. (BTW, the system's BQ'd both classes however qualifying was really tough at that race due to some quals being nightmares due to traffic and alot of broken fast cars, so its not a fair and accurate showing of how good the system is).

I did not drive the LRP one, but did see how fast it was on the track, i heard a rumor of a slight delay in the system, but i am sure it will be fixed by production.

Congrats to all of the winners! Toso, Peter, Mike, Chuck and of course Mr. Orr!

[chrisAtmaxx]

stormperson did u race in the nats? i was working them doing the cleanup and cleaning up everyones mess. but i did notice the the brushless motors were working very well and i think that they are good for r/c because as the demand for them increases the price will start to decline and we will have faster cars for less

[stormperson]

Yes i did.

[soreloser]

Actually ROAR has raised the Max on Mods to have retail value equal up to $110, just no one has noticed it yet because people do not read the Rule book very often.

Read Rule 8.7.3 in the 2005 rule book.

[soreloser]

I just feel that the magnet issue is the main point why brushless is more efficient. If Brushed motors could use Rare Earth Magnets, then I would bet that a 13 turn would perform just as good as a current 10 turn. This would gain the run time that the brushless has over the brushed and it would also cut down on the required maintenance because the motor is way more efficient.

Just my thoughts on the subject and my opinion on the magnets.

[stormperson]

I doubt that if brushed motors were allowed to compete on equal terms at least in the short term that they would be as good if not better then brushed motors.

And that $95 was an example, its samantics 95 vs. 110, there is still a max cost, there is none of that in brushless....

[CharlieS]

Brushed motors do use "Juiced Magnets" if they weren't they coundn't possibly have the gauss readings they do. It's physics. The motor manufactures all know this as they are the one's who tell the makers how much of what 'Rare' earth to put in.

The magnets in an R/C Motor are off the chart for a Standard non Rare Earth magnet, how is that possible.... Magic I suppose.

[PeterV]

ROAR's official rule as of March 6 (from the Novak site): http://www.teamnovak.com/news/roar_brushless/2005brushless_rule.htm

[RCSavage]

So is Orr's victory legal? It says they need to be approved, isn't approval in Sept.? It also says you need to provide hobby shops that have them avail (300 minimum) I don't think that Orr's system meets those requirements.

All that being said, I really like the idea of brushless motors and taking away the motor tuning aspect and making it more about driving. Now if they could program the torque curve and max RPM to eliminate the battery advantage, we could have some real competitive racing.

Personally I'm happy either way, I just love racing!!

[mugenX5]

I love racing too, but it's even better when you dont' have to cart around an arsenal of machinery.

[tallyrc]

i love the guys who want to keep brushless motors illegal because it takes the "skill of motor building" out of the equation... like ANY PRO RACERS build their own motors......heck, like any real race drivers even touch anything other than a steering wheel... if anything brushless motors will make our hobby more fair for all, less expensive in the long run and thus more accessable to more people. all of which i like.

[EddieO]

Chris Tosolini built his own motors to win Snowbirds and also built his own motors to win Carpet nats....would of been hard for me to build them since I was a few thousand miles away...

So much for that theory.....

Personal mechanics for the Chassis are few and far between.....Chris does get help because he runs 3 classes, but he still does a lot of the work on the cars himself...

I can tell you without a doubt, Kinwald, Francis, Burch, Dumas, etc ALL do their own work on their cars.

Have you ever even BEEN to a big race where these guys are?

Nobody wants to keep brushless illegal....people just want an equal set of rules to go by with an available product....

Later EddieO

[npresme]

Eddie- You are dead on! The only time I really recall Mechanics were at the worlds, and I am pretty sure that most of the Americans didn't have one.