Miss Budweiser Electric Conversion

[Monitor]

I need some help.

I finally have had it with my Miss Budweiser and the touchy nitro engine setup. I have run about 5 gallons through the engine, so I feel that I got a good amount of use out of the stock setup, but now I am ready to try and convert it to electric.

I have read a few posts here and there stating how some people have tried it, but there are never any real details, including part, hardware, etc. I even read about one guy putting in a brushless motor with gearbox.

Since the technology has changed quite a bit in electrics since I was last into the hobby, I need help with all aspects of the project. For instance, what kind of motor mount are people using to mount a motor off the stock nitro blocks? As I see it, the motor sits a bit too low to line up with the prop shaft. Also, what about speed controls? I would like to wire up to 7.2V packs in series to get a good amount of voltage to the motor, but I want to make sure I have an ESC that can handle more if I choose to later on.

If anyone can help with specifics for this project, I would greatly appreciate it. I have gone to a few local hobby shops, but they are over an hour away from where I live, and none of them carry any parts for boat other than props and other simple stuff. They look at me like I am crazy when I say I want an ESC that can handle more than one battery pack. I will obviously be buying the parts online, but with all the shipping hastles, I want to make sure I order the correct parts the FIRST time.

Oh and one more thing. I am running the boat on my own private pond which is sheltered by trees. Waves are pretty much always non existant, so even if this died in the middle of the water, it should not have a problem of being swamped with waves. I say this because some people have voiced concerns over weight in the boat and possible sinking when wave wash over the back.

Again, thanks for the help, and I look forward to any replies.

Here are some links to this forum and one other that I have found with some sparce details:

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166057&highlight=miss+bud+conversion

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221930

[BoatDoc]

climate models has done the conversion before. i remember peter talking about a while back. try the climate web site. you won't see a miss bud there, but you can contact them through the site to ask questions.

http://www.climatemodels.com/

peter is a real helpful guy. the boats that climate build are some of the fastest there are. they know their stuff.

[abx131]

I saw one at a hobbie show once with a hacker brushless in it. The gas tank was removed and the motor pushed up into the nose withthe 12 cells split and placed in the side pods around where the body flairs up to the sponsons, right ahead of the skid fin mount point. I'm not sure of the drive line assembly though. It looked real clean.

[Hydro Junkie]

So how about an update? Are you still going to convert your boat?

[Monitor]

The conversion is still in progress, but it is a bit harder than I thought since the 700bb motor takes up quite a bit of room in the nose where I was planning on putting the battery packs.

I have talked to some people who took a dremel to the hull and gutted it, but I am not sure I want to go that far since it makes it impossible to go back to nitro if things don't work out

At this point, the boat is having a hard time still with cavitation. I think lighter packs would help, along with a new prop. Perhaps even a cavitation plate.

[Hydro Junkie]

People tried a cavitation plate with the nitro set up, to no avail. I've got three questions for you:
1) How deep is your prop set
2) How much weight is on the prop
3) Are you using the same prop as with the nitro setup

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Everybody
I have seen a couple of these boats converted to electric. They can run well. What 700 motor are you using? twelve Cells? Typically you will need at least a 42mm prop to get eneough push to get on plane with this size of boat. A Graupner CF K42 prop will work well here and is low cost. You do need to keep most of the weight in the front if possible. n.h.schmidt

[Monitor]

My prop and drivetrain are all the same as the stock nitro setup. I have 12 cells on the motor (or soon will) but I am having trouble finding an easily accessible place to locate and secure the batteries. At this point I am just messing around with Nicad packs, but like I said, I think they are probably too heavy.

I have some different props on order, so perhaps that will help get the boat up on plane. That was one of my biggest gripes with the nitro setup was the "all or nothing" running style. Plus getting the nitro motor started, hatch secured, and tossing it on plane was a bit tough to do by myself without major amounts of frustration.

I noticed the other day that there is a lead weight epoxied in the right sponson. I am not sure how heavy it is, but I am thinking that may need to come out.

[decoy706]

The lead weight is to keep the sponson in the water during turns otherwise it flips over. I'm using a MRP Dual drive set-up but have had to remove the mounts to line up the flex drive system and changes were made to the radio box(moved it up front) and the batts will be centered in the hull 12 cells/new gear ratio/bigger prop/ and lots of luck is needed to make it fly. testing is planned for spring

[Monitor]

Do you have any pictures? :)

[Andrewg]

Monitor

Remove the lead weight it is very heavy
Your cells can be moved to put more weight on the lh sponson
Set the centre of balance at the rear of the turn fin.

Regarding the drivline
You need a 700BB 8.4
On 12 cells to start a 48mm graupner cf prop. An octura X645 will give 36mph
On 16 cells to start a 42mm cf prop. An Octura X642 will be better = 38mph

The stock nitro setup is poor - the prop is too small and too flexible. In 700 based electric system it will be a total dog. Use a flex drive and adjustable strut so you can play wih strut depth and angle

[Monitor]

New props should be in Monday.....

Motor is mounted and attached to stock shaft via flex coupler......

Battery placement is still an issue. I can't seem to find a good place to put the batteries that allows easy access/changing without cutting into the hull. The motor is a pretty good size, and doesn't allow for sliding batteries beside it into the foward sponson. I can go back to the rear of the boat if I am careful, but then the packs would be sittting in the water not drained by the auto bailer. Plus that would really throw off the balance. I tried piggybacking them above the radio box (underneath the cowl, and that sortof worked, but then the cg is probably too high....

Thanks again, for everyone's help. I probably would have given up long ago without all this advise and discussion.

[Hydro Junkie]

You don't want to put the packs in the rear if you can avoid it. The weight on the prop will keep the boat from really getting up and running. Also, having the weight up high will make the boat unstable, due to being topheavy. One option(Decoy did this on his) is to move or cut down the radio box. I've even seen electrics that don't have a radio box, but instead use the components to help balance the boat. For that one, all you would need to do is get a waterproof servo for the rudder and balloon the receiver and battery pack, if you're not using an ESC with a BEC. That might give you the room you need for moving around the battery packs

[Watercadet]

With 12 and more cells you have to run a reciever pack right? That would be way too many volts to the reciever..
Adam

[Hydro Junkie]

That's what the BATTERY ELIMINATOR CIRCUIT is for. It gives you the lower voltage(from the battery packs through the ESC) needed by the receiver without having to carry more batteries just for the receiver. Many marine ESC's have a built in BEC, making the receiver battery pack not needed extra weight.

[decoy706]

Have a chance to pick up another T4 glass double wing Bud mrp hull 34" and make it electric to run in 10th scale.Any opinions am I foolish to think it would work?
Still working on the Pro Boat conversion so thought I would do 2 at the same time so I could have a pair

[Hydro Junkie]

You would need a variance for sizing, depending on club rules. E-RCU would require a boat meeting these size restrictions:
Length 35.8"+1"
Width 17.2"+10%
Tunnel 9.1"+10%

[Doc]

Some quick thoughts...
Why not split the battery packs? Then you can fit the individual cells around the motor/hull/etc, as space allows. The weight in the sponson could be replaced by battery cell(s), make the ballast 'work' for you. Or, if you use a receiver battery, it would be a 'useful' place to put it.
If you do split the battery packs you should re-insulate them, heat shrink tubing, liquid 'tape', whatever will work, etc...
- 'Doc

[Watercadet]

That's what the BATTERY ELIMINATOR CIRCUIT is for. It gives you the lower voltage(from the battery packs through the ESC) needed by the receiver without having to carry more batteries just for the receiver. Many marine ESC's have a built in BEC, making the receiver battery pack not needed extra weight.

I know that cool guy... did YOU know that too many drive batteries will up the voltage on the BEC and fry a reciever? Hence:

With 12 and more cells you have to run a reciever pack right? That would be way too many volts to the reciever..

Adam

[Hydro Junkie]

That's news to me. Most of the guys in E-R/CU run BEC's with 12 to 14 cells without a problem. I would agree, though, a receiver pack would be a good idea above that, as many boats using more cells are strictly for top end and bleeding off power to the receiver would be counterproductive. On a boat the size of the Bud and the 1/10th boats in E-R/CU, the weight of a separate pack would be counterproductive as well.

[Watercadet]

A small NiMh pack to only power the rudder servo would not be big. Less weight than a sub-c cell.
Adam

[Rosati]

The Miss Bud would need so serious waterproofing around the hatch because she picks up a lot of water just in normal running. Your motor, esc and packs are all prone to water damage.

[DLM]

With 12 and more cells you have to run a reciever pack right? That would be way too many volts to the reciever..
Adam
Use a 9 volt battery for rx power. it won't hurt anything except the servo arm will be a red hair quicker. Just think it as have a reserve juice when you need it. I read you guys setup plans and etc; the cg would be close to 60% from transom and would try to distribute weight in that general area. The cell packs would be soldered end-to-end so you could get the cg real close even if you have to bend the solder tabs to get it correct. The general area would be 40% from bow. Make sure the weight is equal from cowl out on both sides. this is where end-to-end soldering really comes in handy. I don't know which 700 you are using either 8.4 or SSI, both are good. To be honest, the BUD is probably as hard as the American Dream and it had NO room; next boat that would be next in hardness is the rigger and cats, and mono is the easiest. Have fun!

[Watercadet]

I have never seen a 9v hooked up to a reciever. Have you? I think that would be too high.
Adam

[DLM]

I have never seen a 9v hooked up to a reciever. Have you? I think that would be too high.
Adam
All my boats are hooked up that way.I was at the local lhs and they have have packaged units except the one lead needs to have a Radio Shack 9 volt connector soldered to the one lead. Also DuPro has a push-pull switch which should be installed for safety. The push-pull or dead man is required in the UK. on all boats,especially on race boats. Their units are the hose like bullet which is inserted for action and pulled for no action. One item to look for when 9 volt gets low, when your boat doesn't respond well . To test, just try and return boat if possible to shore and closer boat gets to shore, it ( boat ) increases speed and response. Same goes for tx batteries. When inserting leads into rx, be gentle, those ends are fragile and use a point of something and pry on side of plug in and ease out. Don't tug or pull, could pull wires off inside covering and you can't see inside. You can scratch your head for a Looooong time and wonder what the---- did i do wrong.

[DLM]

The Miss Bud would need so serious waterproofing around the hatch because she picks up a lot of water just in normal running. Your motor, esc and packs are all prone to water damage.
Double tape, by putting one row of tape on and then put another row of tape below the first row or above the first row. Take your time doing this. I use black electric tape and have used the same tape 4 times over as long as sticky side is dry. Ok, also use a small diameter hose between coupler and stuffing tube. This prevents losing prop and cable if couple loose grip. Last, get some waterproof goop and put on end of stuffing tube when cable meets coupler. put a dab of oil on cable till goop dries. Leave about 1/2" open between end of stuffing tube and coupler. Reason for goop is less water in boat thru stuffing tube. Where rudder rod comes thru boot , put half full of grease to keep water out. If your having water entering Bud,spend a lot of time looking for the problem in the bathtub and splash water. Too many boats go to bottom and i have lost my best boat this spring but my cells vented and blew cover off and sank. It gives you a SICK feeling and everything gets REAL quiet around you!! Hope this helps!

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Again
DlM is right about using 9V batterys to power the receiver.I have seen this done at many races. I have been doing this for about five years. The biggest problem is rembering to shut the thing off when i'm done with it. Anyway you can save about 3 oz using a 9v instead of 4 AA's. Use only the better Alkaline types. If you try the much cheaper standard heavy duty types,you will not make it very far. They can't even supply eneough power to last one run. The alkaline types can last all summer . If the 9V part bothers you ,a rechargeable 9v type can be used instead. They claim to be replacement for a 9v battery but, if you read the voltage on the battery it will say 7.2v.You just have to rember to keep the charge up. n.h.schmidt

[Pagemaster]

We now stock a 5mm to 3mm flex coupler to help convert the Nitro Bud and Nitro Hammer to 700 brushed electric or brushless electric power.

Steven Vaccaro
www.OffshoreElectrics.com

[48chebbie]

i am about to set out on this conversion myself,luckily i picked up one of these miss bud's,that another person,for some stupid reason,wanted the motor and radio out of it,and never ran the boat!! anywho,i plan on running a trinity monster maxx pro 17-turn 550 mod,direct thru the stock shaft and prop and a proboat esc,and run her on 10-cell 2400SCR ni-cads. my only concerns,is that when i piled all the parts on the boat,and weighed it,it came out to 4 lbs. 7 ozs. does that sound heavy for this size of a hydroplane? or is that heavy? i don't know what the miss bud weighs RTR with a full tank of fuel,so,i am guessing here. any input would be great. i have a graupner speed 700BB neodym comming,and i have a kyosho 14.4 volt water cooled esc,if i want to go the 12-cell route,but that will come out over 5 lbs. tell me what ya think folks.

[BoatDoc]

this may be my inexperience with FE's talking...but isn't 10 cells a little too much for a trinity 550?

[48chebbie]

the trinity monster maxx 550's are made for 14.4 volts,so i don't think 12 will hurt them,i run 10 cells on my hammer ep,with the same motor,and have no problems at all,motor barely gets warm,and runs for 15+ minutes on a charge.

[BoatDoc]

just checking, all of my trinity motors say not to run them on more than 6 cells. but i guess it would make sense that a "monster" motor could take more.

[Fluid]

That particular 550 is a high wind-varient suited to higher voltages. Teaming it with a small prop helps control the amp draw and the heat. Put a big enough prop and some hig voltage 3300 cells on it and it will get plenty hot too. The "normal" 05s are 540s with shorter cans than the 550s have. Trinity's low turn motors (under 10 turns) should not be run at high voltages as they can over-rev or draw excessive current and melt, particularly in direct drive applications. :eek:

[69dart]

http://www.rcflix.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=434
there is my miss llumar i put the batt pack up in the nose the gas tank mount holds the battery securly for some strange reason any ways still waitin on some hardware it should work though

[48chebbie]

i got a chance to run my converted miss bud today. ran it on 10 2400 scr cells. ran about 7-9 minutes on a charge. man this thing was cookin'!!! i don't run alot of hydros,so driving them is different for me. it takes a little to get the thing up on plane,eased on the throttle,then bam!! this thing jumped up and gone! my only comparison i have,is i had my girlfriend run my hammer EP(monster maxx pro 17 turn 550,proboat esc,8-cell 24 SCR's,octura Y535) and my miss bud flat smoked it!!! so,i am very impressed with this conversion,the monster maxx pro 550,watercooled,and waterproof proboat esc,seem very well matched for this set-up. weight came out to 4.7 lbs. took on very little water,and motor,batteries,and esc were barely warm. i like it. here are some pics of the set-up. last pic,shows i have way to many projects setting around.ya think?

[48chebbie]

i got a chance to run my converted miss bud today. ran it on 10 2400 scr cells. ran about 7-9 minutes on a charge. man this thing was cookin'!!! i don't run alot of hydros,so driving them is different for me. it takes a little to get the thing up on plane,eased on the throttle,then bam!! this thing jumped up and gone! my only comparison i have,is i had my girlfriend run my hammer EP(monster maxx pro 17 turn 550,proboat esc,8-cell 24 SCR's,octura Y535) and my miss bud flat smoked it!!! so,i am very impressed with this conversion,the monster maxx pro 550,watercooled,and waterproof proboat esc,seem very well matched for this set-up. weight came out to 4.7 lbs. took on very little water,and motor,batteries,and esc were barely warm. i like it. here are some pics of the set-up. last pic,shows i have way to many projects setting around.ya think?
pic2

[48chebbie]

pic3

[48chebbie]

pic4

[48chebbie]

last pic