XXX Losi 2wd buggy, front broken-arm blues!

[Intellion]

Hello all,

I have a Team Losi XXX 2wd buggy and I race it, bash it, and let my friends drive it. Between my friends and I, we have broken probably 10 different front lower arms. It breaks in pretty much the same place all the time, the outer hinge pin next to the tire.

I tried using the "stronger" Graphite arms offered by Losi, they break too. Nothing seems to hold up as I would like. I have 2 cars, a XXX-4, and the 2wd. When friends come over and I let them drive the 2wd. Since most of them have no driving skills, they plow into curbs and such which is why this is a constant problem. I break the arms when I'm racing and I come off a jump bad. I've only broken 2 of those 10 arms myself with %80 usage of the car. They did the other 8 arms with %20 usage.

I don't think this is an issue of just too much abuse, as I have been in this hobby since 1985 and I have NEVER had a part break so often as this, it's rediculous. Every car I have owned in the past goes through the same beating, and probably more since my driving was worse at those times, then it is now. I tried asking my local hobby shops if there are stronger lower arms out there for the XXX 2wd buggies, but they didn't sell any, or know of any. Do any of you out there know of a more rugged set of lower front arms for the Team Losi XXX 2wd buggy?

[dalejrfan8]

I was there. I broke about 5 pivot blocks on my T3 before I fixed it. I went with the RPM ones and haven't broke them yet. For your arms places like racers edge, GPM or artshobby.com. If none of them have what you need get creative. If you have a friend who has access to a machine shop.....

[Intellion]

Well I tried looking for GPM arms, I ended up at the following spot:
http://www.hobbyetc.com/cgi-bin/catalog2.cgi?man=all&car_id=all&cat=190
no luck there, I could no find arms for the XXX 2wd. Only stock Losi replacement arms, not beefier upgrades.

I also tried http://www.artshobby.com but found no Losi XXX 2wd arm upgrades.

I think RPM might be out of business. I remember buying RPM parts for my cars awhile ago, but I found no website for RPM products, and the stuff I found for sale over the internet was old. If you know of a website for RPM, can you reply with a link?

As for Racers Edge, I could not find a main company website. I found their products on many other sites, but nothing with arms for my car. Do you have any good links for them? It's amazing that such a popular car, with a problem which much be pretty common, has either no upgrade or a very hard to find upgrade.

Thanks for the reply so far.

[Sefro]

Since most of them have no driving skills, they plow into curbs and such which is why this is a constant problem.
Dude any car when you "plow into a curb will break. Monster truck, buggy whatever. that is like saying why did the front end of my car go from 3 ft to 6 inches when I hit a 10x10 concrete box. That is the exact reason why I dont let friends drive my cars unless they have rc cars of their own. Which doesnt happen often.
Just think about what you are saying.
Sefro

[Intellion]

Yeah, I was just waiting for somebody to respond with that comment...

Actually, no. It's not that simple. I have raced RC's for years now and put cars through tons of abuse. Funny as it sounds, I'm pretty familiar with what types of crashes are bad, and which ones you can handle. Some of the curb hits were hard, no doubt. But others were really not very hard at all, certainly not the type of hit I would have expected to break an A-arm.

If you look at the lower front arms on the Losi 2wd, you'll see that they are actually pretty skinny. Not much plastic there at all, certainly less then other cars I have had in the past. It seems obvious to me that the car is designed for performance and racing versus durability for beginners. I like to race so I enjoy that car. But I also like getting my friends into the hobby.

As for the comment about not letting friends drive you cars, while I understand how you feel, I'm trying to get my friends involved in the Hobby. They are more likely to go get their own cars if they have a chance to try it out. If all I need to do is sacrifice a few arms to get some good friends racing with me, then it's worth it. At the same time, if I could find a bit beefier arm that will not break as easily, then I get the best of both worlds. A more durable car that I can let friends drive, and a car that's a competitive racer.

Which is why I made this post. Thanks for your reply though.

[Sefro]

As for the comment about not letting friends drive you cars, while I understand how you feel, I'm trying to get my friends involved in the Hobby. They are more likely to go get their own cars if they have a chance to try it out. If all I need to do is sacrifice a few arms to get some good friends racing with me, then it's worth it. At the same time, if I could find a bit beefier arm that will not break as easily, then I get the best of both worlds. A more durable car that I can let friends drive, and a car that's a competitive racer.

Which is why I made this post. Thanks for your reply though.
thats why I have a micro :)
With your low speed curb encounters. Stress risers. They might not have cracks that you are able to see with your naked eye. With the flimsy arms. Sometimes that is the price you pay for a high performance car. Like high performance fourstroke motorcycles they are winding them out so high that the motors are starting to lose duribility. The buggy maybe trying to shed weight which in turn might reduce the strength. Also the a-arms might be designed to break under certian amounts of pressure to keep from damaging another part of the car. You could look for aftermarket support on this one. And with graphite arms I wouldnt say they are stronger just stiffer and lighter. The stiffness of the graphite can cause them to break easier than a softer plastic.
Sefro

[papazilla]

RPM is not out of business and their site is rpmrcproducts.com. A search on Yahoo is all it took. I just purchased their redesigned slipper cover for the B4/T4. The stronger graphite arms you mention for the XXX are not actually stronger. They are lighter and meant more for racing. The stock plastic ones flex more and therefore will be more forgiving. I too have been around a long long time in this hobby. My first car was an AE RC12e. Parts on cars now are thinner in a lot of areas, but this is done for weight and to decrease unsprung weight. I can't say I break anything more now than I did in the 1980's, but I race and don't bash. I may bust a pivot block here and there, but back in the day I stripped out idler gears in the old AE six gear tranny like it was fun. Parts break. Simple truth. Heck, even a T-Maxx designed for bashing is not bullet proof. My advice would be to get some RPM nylon arms. The stock Losi was engineered for racing and therefore not the beefiest parts in the world.

[Cain]

Agreed with what was said above, graphite is not stronger, its just more stiff to give the car a more direct feel. It will actually break easier.

You may want to look into the RPM protection stuff as well like the wide front bumper. I believe they make one for the truck and if there are nylon arms for the XXX offered by them, get them as those DON"T break. had a set on my B3 and I beat the crap out of it, no breakages. Just don't plan on this feeling as direct as graphite.

[redbaron]

The RPM Wide front bumper will help take some of the stress off the front A arms. This would be the first thing i would do.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCTW1&P=7

[redbaron]

You could also try the new BK2 front arms. They appear to be a little more beefy at the outer hinge pin.

[Intellion]

Thanks for finding the RPM website. I was using Google and not finding it. There was one link I clicked on, which seemed the same as the link listed here for RPM, but that website lagged for 30 min then the page froze. So perhaps the website was down when I tried? /shrug.

Anyways, I looked over the RPM website and I found front arms for the XX, but not the XXX 2wd buggy. I sent them a mail asking if there are any plans on making those arms. Maybe never, who knows.

I have a hard time believing I'm the only one experiencing this. Yeah that car is designed to be raced, but lots of us race and bash. I live almost 2 hours from the closest track, and in Oregon so it rains all the time. Bashing on the street is one of my only options most of the time. Between that, and not driving at all, I'll take that. Before making the first post here, I had also considered the possibility of those arms being designed weak so they would break before something else. That's a definite tactic in Engineering, break the cheap piece before the expensive piece. But after considering it, I thought back to how much thicker arms were in the past on previous cars I had owned and how often I bashed those cars with no breakage. I have bent a few hinge pins, maybe one bulkhead over the years. Mainly tie rods break before other things. But on this car... the arms are just brittle and that's all there is to it. I fully believe a lower arm that's just a bit thicker will be far more break resistent, as well as not causing a huge impact on drivability, or threatening more expensive pieces to break.

No, I think Losi made this arm thin and light for race reasons not for breakage reasons. I have no problems replacing parts on my cars when crashes happen and things break. But 5-6 sets of arms? No way man, at what point do we just say "ok that part is probably a little weak."

As for the BK2 arms...

I looked on the Losi website on the instructions for that car. Here's the link. http://www.teamlosi.com/pdfs/bk2/BAGB.pdf and it does appear that the arms are beefier right next to the outer hinge pin EXACTLY where my arms keep getting broken. Coincidence? I think not :) I suppose the only question now is whether or not those arms will fit on a XXX? I'll try to figure that out.

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

[Pro3/nmt105]

I'd try the bk2 arms, I have yet to break an arm and mine had been in some pretty bad crashes. When someone turned on a radio on my frequency my car kept going at the end of the straight and into a cinderblock wall, the only thing that broke was my servo, the motor burnt out. I'd expect parts to break if you crash into curbs or bash a buggy in general. Buggys are meant to be track cars, if you want to bash or bash and race you'd be better off with a truck.

[Pro3/nmt105]

The bk2 arms do fit the XXX but you may need to get the new caster blocks too.

[Intellion]

Yeah, but I don't want a truck! I like my cars, I just need to beef up a few small parts then it's all good.

The part number for the lower arm in the instructions of the BK2 is A-9700. I called up the local hobby shop and asked them if they have that. They said that one package listed several different cars on it. So either it was the same arm listed in the instructions for the BK2 and it works directly with the XXX, or perhaps the old part number for the XXX arm was also 9700 and they just made a new part. I'll just have to go there and check it out.

[redbaron]

The Bk2 arm will fit the xxx. the only difference is the additional hole for the caster block. I have used bk2 front arms on a xxx and just used the inner hole.

[Rick Hohwart]

When friends come over and I let them drive the 2wd. Since most of them have no driving skills, they plow into curbs and such which is why this is a constant problem.

Running into things breaks parts.

The Losi XXX is a competition car and is designed for maximum performance. If it were designed to run into curbs and not break, it would not be much of a racing car. You should look into a non-racing vehicle for playing with in the street.

[Intellion]

Running into things breaks parts.

The Losi XXX is a competition car and is designed for maximum performance. If it were designed to run into curbs and not break, it would not be much of a racing car. You should look into a non-racing vehicle for playing with in the street.

Hmm, well considering that nothing else on that car seems to break on a regular basis, and adding lower arms that are slightly thicker will have a very minimal impact on the cars overall performance, while most likely addressing the problem of a common breakage, I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm willing to put up with any loss in performace by just a bit thicker front A-arm, that's ok with me. My racing isn't even close to the level where such a minor difference like that is going to make/break the race. Instead of dropping another $400 on a whole new car, I would make far more headway by installing thicker arms and spending $250 on some good NiMH cells and a Smart Tray.

Everything else on the car has been great for how I use it. I just go through too many lower A arms, that's all :)

Thanks for the input though.

[papazilla]

I don't think it is as simple as putting slightly thicker arms on the car. I know Mr. Howart has been a Losi man for years racing on the world scene. Trust his input.

[Sefro]

also one thing to think about. you strengthen on think you something else will be the weak point..
Sefro

[Intellion]

also one thing to think about. you strengthen on think you something else will be the weak point..
Sefro
Yes, I had already considered that. I mentioned it earlier in this thread too. "Break the cheapest part first" is indeed a design technique. I think you need to consider the rest of that theory, where you identify and remove the weakest link. The next weakest link was stronger then the first, meaning your overall system is stronger then it was before. If the weakest link could hold 10lbs of pressure before breaking, but the next link can hold 20lbs of pressure, you effectively made the entire system twice as durable by removing that weak link.

I don't think it is as simple as putting slightly thicker arms on the car. I know Mr. Howart has been a Losi man for years racing on the world scene. Trust his input.
I fully agree he has valuable input. I don't think he understood my position very well. I'm aware that the XXX is a racer, not a basher. I'm aware that parts are made for performance, not durability. I'm willing to put up with replacing parts every once in awhile and maintaining a race car instead of a bash car. The one difference here, is that those A-arms broke TOO MUCH. On the scale of "brittle but performs, versus strong but slow" I think Losi made the XXX lower A arms too brittle.

Case in point, Please note that the lower front arms on the BK2 are stronger EXACTLY where I stated I have broken mine 10 times now. Seems to me that was the answer I was looking for at the start of this thread.

Again, thanks for your input. I'm off to buy BK2 arms for my car.

[elecracr]

Have you seen if the evader bx's front arms fit, im not sure but if they do i have not broken but one in over a year.

[sofast]

Here's how you solve your problem, either 1. dont let newbie friends drive the buggy, or 2. buy a bandit and let them bash it into curbs all day long.. lol

Sofast

[TexRacer]

Intellion-I would try getting a STOCK composite set of arms and boil them in water for a few minutes.This will make the arms have a lil more flex in them.

#2 would be to buy a set of the newwer arms and newwer front spindles to see if they will hold up better while using the inside hole.

If not then I would be getting stock arms and boiling them.

P.S.GET THE RPM FRONT BUMPER. RPM 73602 is the part #.

Hope this helps.

[Intellion]

Here's how you solve your problem, either 1. dont let newbie friends drive the buggy, or 2. buy a bandit and let them bash it into curbs all day long.. lolWell, like I stated above getting my friends into RC is more important to me then having to replace a few arms. A Bandit? Remember I do race sometimes and I need a car that can perform at the track. Everything else about my XXX is super for both bashing and racing. My only problem has been the overly weak lower front arms. Seriously guys, you don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater here... It is possible for a company to make a few parts on a car a little too weak. I think that's all that happened here. The losi XXX and BK2 are great cars, I love mine very much. I just wanted to find that happy middle ground of a good racer, and a bit stronger for bashing. I think I have found my solution BTW, read below.

Intellion-I would try getting a STOCK composite set of arms and boil them in water for a few minutes.This will make the arms have a lil more flex in them.
Now there's an interesting suggestion. I'll give that a try and see how it works. Thanks :)

P.S.GET THE RPM FRONT BUMPER. RPM 73602 is the part #.
I had the exact same thought. I already ordered that bumper from my local hobby store and picked it up. It's mounted on my car already and definately gives a lot of protection from the front. Thanks for that suggestion too, and for going the extra mile to provide the number.

#2 would be to buy a set of the newwer arms and newwer front spindles to see if they will hold up better while using the inside hole.That was my original plan, as you can see from the posts above. The guy at my local hobby store said that even though the BK2 arms are thicker at that outer hinge pin hole, they are made of graphite which is more brittle. So in his opinion, the brittleness of graphite will weaken the arm more then the thickness of that spot will strengthen it. It's a tough judgement to make without testing, I could see it going either way. So for the moment, I picked up a set of the cheap arms again, and the RPM bumper. I'll try boiling the cheap arms in the next few days and then invite my buddy over to drive the car for awhile and see how it works. Between the new bumper and the more flexible arms I might have a solution.