Motor Maintenance

[Matt J]

Hi guy's, I have a Tamiya TL01 and i'm just pricing up a decent low turn motor and ESC but this will be the first one i've run so i need any information or links to maintain it properly, oh and if you use abreviations please explain what you mean as i havent had a motor apart before so i'm not too hot on all the internal part names, thanks in advance :cool:

[tec_41]

ok, ill take the first stab at explaining this to you. First off, in modified motors (lower turns) the brushes that make contact with the comutator have to be changed more often. The comutator is the bronze colored thing, commenly called a "comm". The comm has to be cut in a mod motor, probably at least every 10 runs, more if your racing because this keeps the motor running at its fullest potential. Every time you cut the comm, i reccomend changing the brushes. You can cut the comm using a comm lathe, or take the motor to your local hobby store and they can probably do it for you. There is a link to a website that is REALLY helpful, but it has slipped my mind right now. Im sure some one will post it later on. Hope this helps a little!

[RyanSL1374]

Sounds like a pain in the ass... I'll keep my trucks stock...

[tec_41]

Its the same maintanance that a stock motor would require, just have to do it more often.

[setharella21]

i never knew it was that complicated.....

[tec_41]

uh oh, im discouraging people! Someone help lol

[Strike 4]

Get brushless! :D

It really is not complicated, all you have to do it remove the motor from the car, pull out the endbell and remove brushes, get comm cut, get new brush's, and put it back together. I do my comm like once a month (13 packs) and replace brushes once every 2 months (26 packs) on a 19T stock. They also make something called a brush cutter so you dont have to spend 4$ on new brush's, I belive Trinity makes a good one.

If you want to reduce comm wear and maximize brush life use softer springs, softer= more torque less wear harder= more RPM more wear.

[Matt J]

Thanks for that, really useful. Right does lower the turn mean more regular comm cutting and brush replacement? if so is there a general rule for how often things need doing for whatever turn motor your running? i cant believe how cheap stuff is in the States! i've just ordered some stuff from Tower to be sent to a friend in new york so he can post it on to me (tower wouldnt send it direct declaring it as a "gift") its probably cost me 1/3 of the price it would of cost here in the UK!! Oh well bring on the hassle

[tec_41]

lower turns id say should be maintained every 15 runs if your not racing, but that is probably the max. There is no real rule established for comm cuts and brush changes, but i think 15 runs would be fine.

[Strike 4]

Thanks for that, really useful. Right does lower the turn mean more regular comm cutting and brush replacement? if so is there a general rule for how often things need doing for whatever turn motor your running? i cant believe how cheap stuff is in the States! i've just ordered some stuff from Tower to be sent to a friend in new york so he can post it on to me (tower wouldnt send it direct declaring it as a "gift") its probably cost me 1/3 of the price it would of cost here in the UK!! Oh well bring on the hassle

Just be sure to do it every once in a while and not wait 30 packs :p .

[a-man1234]

Matt,

Do you have the manual for the TLO1? If I remember correctly, there are limited options on the choice of pinion gears The way the motor mounts to the chassis is not adjustable. You have a choice of three hole settings (I think) Also, you must use Tamiya Pinions. I believe they are metric. The Manual should have the modified motor choices and the required tooth pinion.

A-man1234

[3xs]

You can check out motortuning secrets.com for a good maintence routine.

[ElectricThunder]

The TL01 only has 3 gear ratio options due to the mounting holes.. :rolleyes: But if you have a dremel handy, you may be able to dremel out the plastic in between holes to offer a wider variety of gearing options. I believe the TL01 can't handle a motor below 15 turns gear ratio wise, so beware of that. I could be wrong though.

As for motor maintenance, you should cut a mod motor comm every 10-15 runs depending on the turn, stock motors probably won't need a comm cut for maybe 30 runs! If you have no access to a lathe, and are just bashing, but want to maintain performance, and have a dremel, you can lock the armature in the dremel, turn it on to about 2,000 RPM or a lil less, then using extremely fine grit sand paper, smooth out the comm, but be very careful as there's a chance you can make the comm out of round which will cause lots of arcing and a great performance loss. The alternative to that is using a pencil eraser and "erasing" the gunk off of each section of the comm, but that only does so much. Hope I helped. :)

-Joe

[rcguy2477]

Sanding the comm doesnt do anything. A lathe is used to make the comm perfectly true(round). If it isnt, it will cause arching(when the brushes "bounce" on the comm creating sparks. You should replace the brushes in a mod every 15 runs or less, and cut the comm every 7-8 runs. For a spring combo, use red(hard) springs to decrease the arching. You should also clean the motor with motor cleaner, but not while the brushes are in as it takes out the moisture. You will also want to align the brush hoods. If you want to decrease the temperature of the motor, cut off the leading edge of the brush.

[Matt J]

Wow some of you guys rwally know what your on about, well the motor i ordered is a 8 turn reedy so we'll see what the TL01 can or cant take, if it breaks it breaks it was fairly cheap so if it breaks i'll replace it with something that can handle the motor. I dotn have the manual i'm affraid, Can i not just buy the correct pinion gear or use the one thats on the stock motor? and your right it only has 3 mounting holes 19, 21 and 23 if i remember correctly.

[Sherminator]

cutting the comm... depending on how hard you run your motor, if you run it hard and hot then you WILL have to cut the comm more frquently, but if you run it cool and undergeared you may be able to stretch it to about 20 runs..

[tec_41]

Matt, i dont know if you are new to rc or not, but that 8 turn might be more of a pain than it is fun. Number one it will go very fast, and number 2 the maintanence. This might just be me, but i think starting at a 19t spec motor and working your way down might be the way to go. Just my dos centos

[3xs]

cutting the comm... depending on how hard you run your motor, if you run it hard and hot then you WILL have to cut the comm more frquently, but if you run it cool and undergeared you may be able to stretch it to about 20 runs..

Running a motor undergeared is as bad as running it overgeared.Undergeared doesn't mean it's running cool,quite the opposite it's running hot just as it is when it's overgeared.

[Hachi_Roku]

If you are going to use an 8 turn motor, you definately can NOT use the same gearing as the stock motor. It will be extremely over geared and you will be accelerating like a snail and wearing out the motor very quickly. 8 turn modified motors (the standard kind, not the V2 kinds) with brushes with low silver content would probably get 8-10 runs out of it before you need to cut the comm. With higher silver content brushes (not recommended for bashing) you may find that you may be cutting your comm after every run. I usually cut my 8 turn around every 2-3 runs depending on if i am practicing or racing.

[Matt J]

tec_41, yes i am new in a way, i used to be into RC a very long time ago but have only recently decided to have another go, what do you think the best thing to do with this motor is then? Which 19t motor would be suitable, or can you tell me what i need to be looking at in the spec for it to be compatable with the TL01?
Thx guys

[Matt J]

tec_41, yes i am new in a way, i used to be into RC a very long time ago but have only recently decided to have another go, what do you think the best thing to do with this motor is then? Which 19t motor would be suitable, or can you tell me what i need to be looking at in the spec for it to be compatable with the TL01?
Thx guys

[tec_41]

For a 19t spec, i would go with either the chameleon 2 pro or the reedy quad mag. Both of these motors are on top right now and both would work fine in your car. As for the 8t, i think you should give it a shot and see if you can handle the maintanance and speed. Im not trying to discourage you or anything, but i havent heard of too many newer guys starting with modified 8t motors :D

[Matt J]

cheers for the quick reply mate, i'll go take a look at those 2

[Matt J]

regarding the 8 turn, maybe i'll order a 19t and run that for a while then try the 8t and see what its like, will the car need any modifications for it to fit/work? which out of the 19, 21 and 23 tooth pinions would be best suited for this? thanks again

[rcguy2477]

With a 8t, you will need to drill more holes in the mount because the gearing options arnt enough for an 8t. Also, with that low turn of a motor, you will notice that its speed will decrease after 1 or 2 runs.

[Matt J]

Explain more to me about the gearings?

[TopKatz]

Because there is such a wide range of motors, there is an equaly large range of gearing combonations to make each motor take advantage of there powerband and rpm range. Although a stock motor may never have the same top speed and acceleration as a mod, it can have the same acceleration or top speed depending ont he gearing. Not only this, but you can increase or decrease the load (strees/heat) put on the motor by increasing or decreasing teh pinion/spur.

Most kits come with a chart that shows a good place to start for each wind of motor. Starting out with this pinion is a good idea. Decreasing the pinion count will give you more accelearation, while increasing will give more top end. Its obviously a trade off, the more gearing the hotter the motor will run. At a point the motor will be over geared and melt down basicaly.

Quick question about motor lathes. Will a real lathe do the trick? I dont have a motor lathe, but I do have access to a real lathe. Anyone ever maintain there motors on a real machien lathe?

[3xs]

Yes! you can use a real lathe to true your coms.

[Voop]

About Gearing:

I'd love to help more, but I just couldn't find the transmission ratio of the tl01 anywhere... I did find the tl01b (buggy) info, so I'll use that as an example and you can change the numbers if you find the tl01 has a different ratio.

First, some definitions:

Drive Ratio: This is the ratio of your Spur Gear (the gear your motor drives, not the one attached to your motor) to your Pinion Gear (the gear attached to your motor). Eg. The tl01b has a 32T spur, and a 19T pinion providing a drive ratio of 1.68:1 (32/19)

Transmission Ratio: This is the fixed ratio of the car's transmission, sometimes called constant or (mistakenly final drive). It varies from car to car, and should be listed in your instruction manual. The TL01B is listed as having a 4.45:1 transmission ratio (quite high by modern kit standards which are mostly in the neighborhood of 1.7-2.5 or so). In order to obtain the Final Drive Ratio you multiply the Drive Ratio with the Transmission Ratio. Eg. The TL01B with this pinion/spur combo has a final drive ratio of 7.49:1. This means that for every 7.49 revolutions of the motor, the wheels will turn a single revolution.

Final Drive Ratio: As explained above, it is the ratio of the number of revolutions the motor must make in order to turn the wheels one full revolution.

Some guidelines on Final Drive Ratios:

For Touring Cars:
Rebuildable Stock Racing Motors: Final drive should be 6-7.5:1 (depending upon motor) Examples of these motors are: Trinity P2k2, Monster Horsepower, Orion Core Stock, Reedy MVP. ***the numbers above depend highly on whether the motor used is of the torquey or RPMey variety, read more about gearing for specific motors by searcing the forums or web***

19T Spec: I've seen final drives on these motors even higher than 6 (the lower the number in the ratio, the higher the ratio is considered to be. eg. 5:1 is a higher geared ratio than 6:1) all the way up to the 5.8:1 range, but only at the highest level of 19T competition driving. These can usually be geard close to a stock.

Mod Motors: Here's where things get tricky. Generally, these motors must be geared MUCH lower than their stock/19T counterparts. The lower the wind, the lower the ratio. I gear my touring car (Trinity D6 10turn double) in the 9.2:1 range. Depending upon track conditions you can go higher or lower than this. As winds drop from 10 turns, it is advisable to drop a tooth from the pinion gear for every turn you lose. (this is just a rough guideline).

Over Gearing: Characterized by a jittery or slow off the line start and a high top end. Motor gets really hot and batteries don't last. Gear lower (drop teeth on the pinion or increase teeth on the spur)

Under Gearing: Characterized by lots of speed off the line and not so much top end. Motor may get really hot but batteries may last longer. Gear Higher (increase teeth on pinion or decrease teeth on spur)

The better race drives can gear their cars higher because they are usually able to carry more speed around the track thus keeping their motors close to their ideal powerbands. It is typically when accelerating from a low speed or stop that you will most notice an over-geared car.

Try to keep your motors under 200 degrees F, (under 180 is even better). Spend the $35 on a duratrax IR thermometer and measure to be sure you've got the right gearing.

A word about tire size. All of the above gear ratio examples assume touring car sized tires. As you increase the size of the tires, you increase something called rollout which effectively creates an over-geared situation. For buggy sized tires start out aroud 9:1 final drive with a stock motor, and around 10.5:1 for a mod.

Hope this helps,

-voop