Firebird Day 2

[Bark65]

Flew the Outlaw this morning. There was more wind this morning than yesterday evening so I kept the plane lower. It flew fairly well again. Right turns are very slow, however the plane maintains level flight better in a right turn than a lsft turn. Right turns generally have a tendency to make the plane lose altitude quickly. Landing the thing smoothly is not easy since there is no elevator. I only managed one soft landing. It seemed to fly a slightly better without the landing gear attached. I lost the landing gear yesterday when the plane hit the ground fairly hard. I did manage to locate the gear today and will try flying it again with the landing gear attached. Yesterday the plane took off smoothly from the basketball court taking only about 60 feet to get airborn. Hand launching the plane works out allright but the plnae tends to dip down towards the ground before it starts to climb. Rolling takeoffs from the court are much smoother. This plane will fold my intrest for about a week, then I'll probably wind up buying a slow stick.

[Rc-Kamikaze]

I recommend using CA glue to glue the landing so it will stay and will not fall off. My bro has the Firebird Commander and numerous times the landing gear has fallen off so we glued it ;)

[aeajr]

Hand launching the plane works out allright but the plnae tends to dip down towards the ground before it starts to climb.

This is normal. The plane has to get up to flying speed in order to climb. A stronger throw on launch will help reduce the drop, especially on a low power plane like the outlaw.

[Bark65]

I've been throwing it harder and the plane has been climbing at a much better rate. I was being too gentle with it the first few days. Hand launching was new to me. When I flew glow powered planes I never hand launched them. Thanks for the advice.

[beefree]

i find that if i just bend the tail upwards slightly it will get airborne faster an go higher.on windy days i try to get up real high an i have better control.

[aeajr]

A critical piece of advice to you and to all two channel pilots. Respect the
wind! REALLY RESPECT THE WIND!!!!!

These planes either have throttle and rudder or throttle and differential
thrust, which does about the same thing.

If you fly on a windy day you have a very high probability of losing the
plane. Why, because you have no way to fight the wind. If the plane gets
down wind from you, and it will, here is what happens. You hit the power to
fight the wind, but these planes climb when you hit the power, so instead of
coming back to you, they climb and as they climb, the wind pushes the plane
further away.

A very very experience two channel pilot can work around this through a series
of maneuvers called the death spiral. However, this is a difficult thing to
control for a new pilot. There is a fellow in our club who has lost two
Firebird Commanders to the wind.

Now, when the wind is mild to moderate, 2-5 mph, he is very very good with
this plane. However he is still pretty new, maybe 15 flights, and has not
learned how to handle this plane in the wind.

A three channel plane with elevator control can push the nose down and dive
into the wind to come back. So, don't fly your rudder/elevator or diff thrust
plane in wind over 5 MPH until you are very good with the plane. Don't get
over 7 MPH until you can easily fight your way back from a down wind position.
The Outlaw is not recommeded for winds of over 8 mph by the manufacturer.

TIP

I don't know if this works for that Outlaw, but for the Firebird, II, XL,
Fighterbird and Commander, if you put a popsicle stick under the back of the
wing, it lowers the angle of attack of the wing and the plane will not climb
as much on power application. If you learn to manage the plane well, this can
give you better penetration into the wind, but it still will not let you put
the nose down into the wind.

Here are links to the intro videos for two of these planes:

Firebird Commander
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_videos/source/firebird_commander_high.wmv

Firebird Outlaw
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_videos/source/firebird_outlaw_high.wmv

[nonaste]

REALLY RESPECT THE WIND!!!!!



If you fly on a windy day you have a very high probability of losing the
plane. Why, because you have no way to fight the wind. If the plane gets
down wind from you, and it will, here is what happens. You hit the power to
fight the wind, but these planes climb when you hit the power, so instead of
coming back to you, they climb and as they climb, the wind pushes the plane
further away.

TIP

I don't know if this works for that Outlaw, but for the Firebird, II, XL,
Fighterbird and Commander, if you put a popsicle stick under the back of the
wing, it lowers the angle of attack of the wing and the plane will not climb
as much on power application. If you learn to manage the plane well, this can
give you better penetration into the wind, but it still will not let you put
the nose down into the wind.


I experienced this very thing that you're talking about. My first flight was at 7am with zero surface wind. But when I launched and climbed to what I guess was 150 to 200 feet the Commander drifted to the west and I couldn't get it back. There must have been an easterly wind that high. Everytime I added power and tried to turn it would turn a little, climb higher and drift further west. Bye, bye plane. Lost control and it did a 45 degree descent into somebody's backyard.

That popcicle trick. Do you glue it to the trailing edge of the wing and do you glue a stick to each side? Unsure what you mean by this.

[Bark65]

I'd bet you need to take the wing off, Place the popsicle stick down where the trailing edge of the wing sits on the mounting surface, put the wing in place and secure the wing with rubber bands. Before I did this, I would try something thinner than a popsicle stick. If you change the angle of the wing too much the plane might not climb correctly. If I were you I'd aim on keeping the plane at an altitude of less than 100 feet. I flew mine no higher than about 50 feet most of the time. I never had a problem with the wind taking it away from me. I felt it start to go a few times but I was able to spiral it down. My Firebird met its demise in my front yard. I lodged it into a tree around the second week of August. Its been there ever since. Tried many times to get it down but to no avail. The wind was not the culprit here, It was my own fault of trying to fly in to tight of a space.
Good flying,
Bark

[JoshH37]

You must frollick in the wind. Use it to your advantage go high way high just turn it into a glider thats what I did when I got bored with mine. Josh

[nonaste]

Thanks Bark. Now I know what you mean.

[nonaste]

You must frollick in the wind. Use it to your advantage go high way high just turn it into a glider thats what I did when I got bored with mine. Josh ???? Why in hell would I intentionally sail a hundred bucks into the sunset???
:eek: If I get bored with it I'd rather sell it on Ebay. And at the newbie rate I'm going I can't hold onto them long enough to get bored. :( I did learn one thing though. Respect the damn wind. :o

[Bark65]

These planes are way too much fun to just sail them off into the sunset. Still wish I was able to fly mine. Still waiting for the tree to give it up. If you do try to shim the wing, which I hear does work, try doing it in small increments. It might only require a 1/16 inch of shim, then again it might take more. I've learned to make adjustments in small increments since I became involved in rubber powered free flight models. A very small change with these models result in a drastic change in flight performance.
Good luck and good flying,
Bark

[nonaste]

These planes are way too much fun to just sail them off into the sunset. Still wish I was able to fly mine. Still waiting for the tree to give it up. If you do try to shim the wing, which I hear does work, try doing it in small increments. It might only require a 1/16 inch of shim, then again it might take more. I've learned to make adjustments in small increments since I became involved in rubber powered free flight models. A very small change with these models result in a drastic change in flight performance.
Good luck and good flying,
Bark
Thanks Bark for the tips on shimming. The unit comes with a plastic shim but it might too thick for the job. I'll have to experiment as you recommend. Hope that tree gives up your bird. Being from the Bay area and now living in Arizona I used to really love trees. Now I look at them with a slightly jaundiced eye. Lol.

[TMaxxBenny25]

I have had a Firebird Commander for 1 and 1/2 years and I have had to get: a new fuselague 2 wings 2 tails!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's INSANE!!!!!!!!!!But it has been I blsat and I have the 6 and 7 cell packs. EVERYONE OUT THERE WITH A COMMANDER SHOULD GET THE 7 CELL PACK!!! trust me!!!!!!!Thank You GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aeajr]

Everyone out there with a commander should get an Aerobird so they have three channel control.

Just my opinion.

[sircrashalot]

A critical piece of advice to you and to all two channel pilots. Respect the
wind! REALLY RESPECT THE WIND!!!!!

These planes either have throttle and rudder or throttle and differential
thrust, which does about the same thing.

If you fly on a windy day you have a very high probability of losing the
plane. Why, because you have no way to fight the wind. If the plane gets
down wind from you, and it will, here is what happens. You hit the power to
fight the wind, but these planes climb when you hit the power, so instead of
coming back to you, they climb and as they climb, the wind pushes the plane
further away.

A very very experience two channel pilot can work around this through a series
of maneuvers called the death spiral. However, this is a difficult thing to
control for a new pilot. There is a fellow in our club who has lost two
Firebird Commanders to the wind.

Now, when the wind is mild to moderate, 2-5 mph, he is very very good with
this plane. However he is still pretty new, maybe 15 flights, and has not
learned how to handle this plane in the wind.

A three channel plane with elevator control can push the nose down and dive
into the wind to come back. So, don't fly your rudder/elevator or diff thrust
plane in wind over 5 MPH until you are very good with the plane. Don't get
over 7 MPH until you can easily fight your way back from a down wind position.
The Outlaw is not recommeded for winds of over 8 mph by the manufacturer.

TIP

I don't know if this works for that Outlaw, but for the Firebird, II, XL,
Fighterbird and Commander, if you put a popsicle stick under the back of the
wing, it lowers the angle of attack of the wing and the plane will not climb
as much on power application. If you learn to manage the plane well, this can
give you better penetration into the wind, but it still will not let you put
the nose down into the wind.

Here are links to the intro videos for two of these planes:

Firebird Commander
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_videos/source/firebird_commander_high.wmv

Firebird Outlaw
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_videos/source/firebird_outlaw_high.wmv

I have two days experience with my Firebird Commander- got one for myself and for my brother in law. First day out we had 10-15mph winds gusting to 25 on the ground...Mine started to drift away downwind I just let off throttle each time and lost some altitude, then brought it back. I did eventually hit a utility line, wing separated and got chunked. 2 minutes later with some clear packing tape I was back in the air- we figured out to pretty much glide with little throttle going with the wind, start your turn, then apply power for a second. Once you are headed back into the wind just a teeny bit of throttle will gain you altitude and sometimes you can even hover. We did 2 flights each without the shim, then put it in. It did help but you gain more speed/less altitude with the shim in place. We did find that using expert mode gives you more control in the wind. Flew today in calm winds these planes are a blast for beginners- and indestructible. Brother in law got cocky and was doing stall to spirals and hit the ground at 90 degrees full throttle- cracked the wing almost completely in half- he DUCT taped it and the thing flew perfectly for the rest of the day. We both agree that the bigger battery is great- more power and more nose weight gives you more speed and maneuverability!!!