All the Miss Buddies

[Watercadet]

I have to clear the water here on the infamous Miss Budweiser. I feel I can speak on this boat as I am an owner of two and would buy another any day.
I think one of the biggest gripes with this boat is that it is "not a good beginner boat." Well nitro motors are not the easiest things to learn and in a boat, nitro problems are amplified by the retrieval process. Nitro takes some learning and that only comes with experience. It should come as no surprise that this hobby requires a lot of patience. The Dynamite .15 is a solid motor and replacement parts are reasonable.
There are two major improvements that this boat could use. One is the prop. Although there was a lot of r&d put in here there is a different, aftermarket one that works better. Fine. Spend the $12 and learn how to sharpen and ballance it, or if you are not into this sport for the hobby aspect (which is why it is so fun) order your Octura Y535 all ready for the water for about $30. Then there is the water on-board problem. One good spinout and good luck getting it back to plane. This is where most novices will gun the throttle and over heat the motor. So we spend another $12 or so and get the autobailer from Aeromarine. Sorry, this one you have to do for your self. Now you have a great looking, fast and reliable boat for less then a new T-Maxx.
The problem here is that most people don't get past all the break-in complications, and the lack of lakes near them, and the time to travel to the pond, and that the wind is too strong to run a hydroPLANE. So they give up and write the boat off as a pile. Well maybe boats are not for you.
I maintain that the shear number of boats sold is good for the hobby in general. What I mean is this: Just like sales is a game of numbers (the more you ask the more you'll sell) the more boats sold, the more hobbiests. Even if there are prople who are turned off by their experience with their Bud, there are even more who will go on, having gained important knowledge from their practice with their "beginner boat."
With the Miss Bud there are lost of things that can be "hoped up" for those who like a challenge. The hydroplane is a difficult canvas to improve upon though.
All right there it is have at it.
Adam

[hydroracer]

hahaha! well said Adam. Get that FF12 smokin yet? I stripped mine down for the paint. I set it up and ran it for a bit to dial it in. Now I've gotta get the oil off it and do the flames and such. I like the scale looks of the bud boat, but the speed of these riggers is a h00t :) haven't got a stalker, but the stopwatch says approximately 55mph on the course, and more to go yet! -Clay

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/168/168772/folders/119357/10600901000447.JPG

[hydroracer]

hey, here's one for you-

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/168/168772/folders/119357/1021239MiamiHydroMissCircusCircus.jpg

[water dog]

Very well put ADAM!!.I couldnt have said it better .I am a newbie to boats and I like hopping up engines .My first boat is a cen Auqua jet ,and I love it .I up graded the prop ,like you have to do to most beginner boats and added a tuned pipe .I started out running in a small pond so I could make the break in proccess go much better .The motor ran super and purred like a kitten from the very first tank.I love the look of the MISS BUD ,but the water I run on is mostly choppy so I new it wsnt for me.The great thing is their is always someone here to help with any problem a boater might have.Thanks to all the guys here that have made this hobby more enjoyable.

[Watercadet]

Hey Mr. Glover! I didn't know that was you!! No progress on the FF12 yet, I am still waiting on Gary P. I sent payment the day I placed the order and that was like two weeks ago. Oh well... hey is that a MT-12 in yours? My Bud is set up like a racer, with the flex and transom mounted strut and I thought that was fast with a stock .18! I cant wait until I get the FF12 on the water with the Italian .15 :)

[hydroracer]

The motor is an MT12, but it has been changed since I took that picture. It now has a flat squishband head button, reduced head clearance, and a blue heatsink. I cut half of the fins off the blue heatsink and polished the top of it like chrome. It looks neat and is showing some serious rpm. I don't know if you like to play with modifying them or not. Preston Hall recommended that I set the exhaust timing around 170 degrees so I'm going to break out the degree wheel and dremel. He's running over 70 with a 5 port novarossi and a v937 :eek:

One of those .15's should be lots of fun in yours for sure :)

[Hydro Junkie]

As a many year builder of scale hydroplanes, as well as being someone who has access to the Miss Budweiser shop(it's nice to have most of the boats in my neck of the woods), I can tell you what's WRONG with the Pro Boat Buds too. Right of the bat, there isn't enough thickness to the hull layup. Any FIBERGLASS hull you can flex with one finger isn't layed up thick enough. I have heard several horror stories about the skidfin breaking loose. This tells me not enough planning was done in the laying out the design. Having a hollow hull has me wondering why the radio is in the back of the boat? A hydro design inherently has water over the transom, meaning the radio box is always subjected to the chance of being flooded. It also adds weight to the last place you want it in a hydroplane. Let's talk about the Canard wing. Why would Pro Boat give the wing a positive angle of attack? If anything, it should have been negative to hold the bow down at high speeds. An angle parallel to the rear bottom would have been much better than where it was put. I've heard many having problems with the boat blowing over. To me, the reason is obvious. Having the canard lifting in the front and the weight of the radio in the back is asking for trouble. In my opinion, without SERIOUS design changes, the Pro Boat Budweisers are going to keep frustrating the new boaters who buy them just because "they look cool."

[MaxxGold]

I bought mine because it looked cool. I am a beginner in every sense of the word. I initially went to the Hobby shop to get my Boy an electric boat (which I did do) so that we could spend some time playing with it. I saw the Miss Bud and like so many other people couldn't resist it. I must say that I have spent a lot of time on these Forums reading over the trials and tribulations of other owners and learned a lot. With the information that I have taken from these forums I have really enjoyed my Miss Bud. The boat has some problem areas but they are easily worked around. I don't have any expierience with any other boats but I can say 100 percent that I love the boat and I am glad that I bought it. I have made all the recommended changes to the boat. I put on the Octura Metal prop and removed the reciever switch inside the radio box. I installed an auto bailer. I installed my auto bailer in behind the transom on the back of the right sponson ( not sure exactly what that is actually called. Here is a picture of where I put it.

http://members.cox.net/maxx/Picture%20090.jpg

It lets out the most ammount of water where I have it installed. The water drains in to the sponson so I figured that I would install the auto bailer in the rear of one and it works like a charm. When I make right turns all the water rushes to the back and escapes and since the boat specializes in right turns it works great.

[Hydro Junkie]

Actually, where you put the autobailer is the left hydroshoe. The sponsons are up in the front with the canard(front wing) mounted in between. I'm impressed that you actually took the time to read up and make the changes before throwing the boat on the water. I'm sure you have seen some of my posts and know I'm not a fan of the Pro Boat Buds. Having said that, I do wish you well with your boats and a long future in R/C Boating Enjoy!!!!!

[MaxxGold]

Thanks. I figured that there was a specific name for where I installed it.

[Hydro Junkie]

Just out of curiosity, did you see my post on the stand for the Budweisers? If not, DO NOT use the supplied stand for AT THE LAKE use. If you need more info, let me know :)

[Watercadet]

being someone who has access to the Miss Budweiser shop(it's nice to have most of the boats in my neck of the woods)

That is cool but how does that pertain to what I said?

there isn't enough thickness to the hull layup. Any FIBERGLASS hull you can flex with one finger isn't layed up thick enough.

It is thin, but how heavy would you have it? There is only a .15 in there. I have not had any stress cracks in any important areas in mine and i have a little more power than stock ;) . The important areas like the non trip and ride pads are strong and straight on mine.

not enough planning was done in the laying out the design

Clearly you don't own and Ford products! LOL Just a jab at the Blue Oval Boys out there. But seriously, I have heard about the skid fin screws missing the doubler and that is unfortunate, mine made it. The fit and finnish on mine was just fine. Having the radio box in the back is standard fair where I come from. When you don't have to hide the pipe why would you have the radio box up front? There is water that splashes over the transom like you said but my tape holds just fine. Move the switch. It is not as though it is submerged every time the boat stops. And be honest when was the last time you got radio in the water box? Last week I saw Al Waters the dist. 19 scale director with water in his. It happens. The boat is so short any way the cg does not transfer like it would had the boat been longer.

Let's talk about the Canard wing. Why would Pro Boat give the wing a positive angle of attack?

I checked both of my boats with a digital level for air plane wings and the AOA is -2 degs. in relation to the front portion of the tunnel and is 0 deg. with the rear ride pads. It is a foil and that may give the illusion that there is positive angle.

I've heard many having problems with the boat blowing over. To me, the reason is obvious. Having the canard lifting in the front and the weight of the radio in the back is asking for trouble.

I too had problems with a few blow overs. So did Chip Hanuer and that is what caused Bill Munceys death, and they are the two greatest hydro drivers ever. I think that Miss Bud Jr.'s flips can be attributed to weather conditions more then manufacture "planning."

Adam

[MaxxGold]

Just out of curiosity, did you see my post on the stand for the Budweisers? If not, DO NOT use the supplied stand for AT THE LAKE use. If you need more info, let me know :)

I have been using the supplied stand at the lake and I agree it is not very good. Where can I get a better one ? Or should I just make one out of pvc ?

[Hydro Junkie]

Adam, The reason I mentioned the Bud Shop is I've talked to crew members who told me there were so many errors in the boats that they wouldn't buy one. As for the thin layup, talk to Hydromania about hull cracks and spitting seams. The skid fin doubler should be the full size of the sponson transom to spread out the pressure over a greater surface area. I don't know of very many guys that race 1/8th scale fiberglass boats who don't have 1/4 inch doublers that cover the entire sponson transom and the boat transom for added strength in these high stress areas.
As for the radio box, why take chances. You have three things against you by putting the box in the rear. First off is the water coming in over and through the transom. There is no such thing as a WATER PROOF radio box. I've seen many a boater loose a race due to FAILED TAPE. Pushrod seals eventually leak as well. The second thing against you is heat. As any electronic tech knows, heat is just as destructive to electronic circuits as water. Just look at all the ESC's that get burned up due to insufficient or ineffective cooling. The third thing is the prop weight. To get an 1/8th scale hydro to perform properly, the weight on the prop needs to be less than 1.75 pounds. On the nitro Bud, it should be even less, so the prop can lift the stern up much easier. After all, the Bud is a THREE POINT PROP RIDER, so let the prop do it's job. By moving the fuel tank to under the deck on the right side and putting the radio box box up front, you have a fixed weight in front of the engine instead of a variable one. This means that when you trim out the boat, you have it trimmed, and not having to worry about fuel burnoff. The weight of the fuel on the right side also helps to keep the skid fin in the water.
As for the Canard and flipping the boat, talk to Hydromania. His boat was damaged in a crash, resulting in the loss of the canard. His experience with the boat showed a substancial improvement with the canard removed.
As for Bill Muncey's death flip, he was trying to set a heat record and was pushing the boat WAY TOO HARD. I've also heard from various sources that he had most, if not all of the weight used to balance and stabilize the hull removed. Whether that's fact or fiction doesn't matter. His overdriving the boat is what caused the flip. It's also possible he wasn't killed by the flip, but instead by the next boat coming past. To this day, no one knows if he died on hitting the water or was hit by the other boat. What is known is he was dead when the rescue boat pulled him out of the water.
Chip's flips have been from a number of causes. A sudden gust of wind flipped both Chip in the Circus Circus and Ron Snider in the Holset Miss Madison on San Diego's Mission bay in 1988. Broken props have also caused Chip to blow over on more than one occassion. I'm sure Chip would have many stories about what has put him on his head too.
Maxx, you will have to build one yourself, unfortunately. So you have something to see, go to the R/C Unlimiteds website, click on the Our Boats section and look at the 1998 Llumar Window films and the 1989 Winston Eagle stands. Their website is www.rcunlimiteds.org

[zigzagracer]

How do you race 8 Miss Buds at once? How do you tell them apart? from both the drivers perspective,the pitmans perspective and the CD.
In the real world there are other boats besides the MB,outside of the issues with this thing,it would be nice if other schemes were available.

[bugfanatic]

It's easy to keep track of mine, it's the one out in front!!

[Hydro Junkie]

Let me think.......................................The U-16 Miss Elam Plus and the U-8 Llumar Window Film are carbon copies of the Budweiser, if you remove the tiplets. The Llumar was, in real life, the Miss Budweiser T-4. It was only qualified once and, if I remember right, never raced before being sold and rebuilt as the Llumar, prior to last season. The piston powered U-3 Vacationville.com was actually built using Budweiser molds, so that means you could have four boats, with different paint schemes using the one boat, paint and some decals. For the U-3, you would also have to build a fake Turbo-Allison to have it look right :cool: Oh, and Bug, keep dreaming. As I keep telling people, if it isn't scale and doesn't do 60, it aint worth havin' :D

[abx131]

As to the Bill Muncey accident, He died from breaking his neck when his helmet hit the water on an inverted flip. They did not run full cockpit canopys like they do now. Look at the old boats, what is the highest point above the body line.....the driver's head!!!! Anyway, as for the radio box. I upgraded the switch and relocated it to the front wall of the engine box. I replaced the lexan cover with a slightly thicker one and I siliconed it down. No leaks!!! I also installed a small blinking grean light on the canopy to see it at sunset a lot better. Make the basic upgrades as mentioned at least a thousand times on this site and have some patience. All will be fine.

[Kris Flynn]

fellas, where can the hull, with no hardware (or minimal) be found? i am looking at getting one of these, but want to convert it to electric..

Any help is appreciated

Cheers
Kris

[abx131]

Contact horizon hobbies, the hull runs for about $120 bucks. Also check the classifieds on this website, sometimes there are a few for sale. As for converting it. Most true electric junkies will tell you its too heavy of a hull if you want to race but if your'e a guy looking to just play around it would be cool. I saw one converted that had a hacker b8(??) stuffed in it. Look up bud conversions in the forum search, I know it has been there before. It talks about which set up to use and placement of the hardware.

[willmac]

Hey Adam, Thanks for the help, but where can I get these 2 parts. I've been searching google, but slim to none is showing up. Thanks

[willmac]

I found the auto bailer, but I haven't been able to find the octura y535 prop, and where do you put the auto bailer, because I can't see the pic of where someone posted theirs earlier for some reason? it looks pretty big in the pic from where I am going to buy one

http://www.rocketcityracing.com/pilot.asp?pg=products&specific=jrgpmrn0#

Thanks

[Watercadet]

Will thanlks for reading! The Autobailer is being put in the backend of the port (left)hydro shoe. Another way to look at is to think of where the water will flow TO when the boat is running and turning right. I don't run one but that is where it is supposed to go. As for the prop: http://www.props4u.com he is my guy.
Adam

[willmac]

Thanks for the help adam. I'm a newbie to boats, so this may be a super dumb question, but how do you mount it? Do you drill a hole in the rear of the left sponson, and fill the gap with epoxy or something?

Thanks again

[abx131]

Yes, make sure the bottom edge of the autobailer is level with the floor of the hull. Fill the gaps with epoxy.

[Watercadet]

Uhh... ya that! Thanks for speaking from my brain abx :p

[911Dispatch]

I love boats.

[willmac]

Hey Adam, or anyone else, the prop guy you led me to hasn't responded to me on that prop, so I'm assuming he doesn't have it. I can't find it anywhere else either. Is there another prop that would be about as good. Thanks

[Watercadet]

Mark (the prop guy) told me that he was backed up because of the gas nats that were comming up. Sorry for the delay. I am sure that he will get back to you ASAP. That is the only one I am aware of that will put it in gear with out any other major mods.
Adam

[willmac]

Alright, a few more Q's. I went to go run my Bud today to break it in, and I started it out pretty rich, then started to lean it out as I went on like you are supposed to do. Correct? Kept leaning, kept leaning, and before I know it I had a very slugish(like it was running rich) boat a 2 1/2 turns!! Factory setting is 3 1/2. I am running O' donnel 20%, which is supposed to be run lean, but what's the deal. The car was running tops 7 mph at 5th tank.

[Watercadet]

There is such thing as too lean... I am thinking that tuning is not your problem though. Check that the carb is full open when you gun it. Does the motor rev really high but the boat wont go? or is the motor just not running up?
Adam
P.S. who said that O'Donnel is supposed to run lean?? Sounds crazy too me.

[willmac]

Already checked that, the carb is WOT, I already checked that. It's not reving high. I was told that it was supposed to run lean by my LHS, because it has no die in it, and that makes it run richer?

[abx131]

Check to see that the fuel line is not restricted at the exit point. Also remove the fuel line and see it is not plugged up. The flange at the exit point also may have some plastic burs partially blocking the hole, use a drill bit to clear the pathway.

[Watercadet]

What color is O'Donnel?? Bright yellow??the yellow that stains boats real bad?? Oh that's right no dye...besides the dye would be in the oil package any way and that doesn't get burned. What ever... what does the plug look like? Is it shiney and wet? Is it greay, or is it brown to black? Also how is the lube on the prop shaft?
Adam

[willmac]

Sorry bud, it's just what I was told, everyone's wrong once in a while

[Hydro Junkie]

Unfortunately, many LHS employees don't have a clue about what is in the store. I've found it best to ask the staff if they fly/run cars/boats, to be sure they really know what they are talking about. I've found too many that try to sell a line of BS rather than try to find the answer to the question. Could this be the shape of customer service in the future? I hope not

[Watercadet]

Oh sorry Will that wasn't pointed at you. Just more of my grievences with LHS guys. Like HJ said. Have you got your Buddy running yet?

Adam

[willmac]

Got the bailer, is this the correct spot to put it?

[willmac]

bailer

[willmac]

I can't seem to get it right now, but I'll try again later

[willmac]

Since I can't seem to get a pic on here for some reason, is this the right spot. (Last pic on bottom of page

http://www.rcreality.com/missbud.htm

Thanks

[BoatDoc]

i just started using o'donell fuel. i had to set the engine a little richer. without all the dyes in the fuel there is less crap getting put into your engine. so (i think) it runs richer because of this. less crap equals more power. i noticed a HUGE imporvement in switching to o'donell fuel. until i tried it my fuel of choice was trinity monster hp. but i'll be sticking with o'donell now.

[Watercadet]

Ya Will that is the spot.
BD I am still wondering why O'donnel is YELLOW and stains everything that way. I know why actually... the oil package has DYE in it. O'Donnel is great fuel no doubt about it. Just don't let and exhaus get on anything that you don't want YELLOW/BROWN
Adam

[BoatDoc]

maybe i got the good stuff!! my fuel is crystal clear.