Progressive suspension idea....What do you think?

[End Overend]

OK, I've been thinking of ways to make a progressive suspension for a while. I love electric buggies, but they just have very little suspension travel and bottom out very easily, which can't be good for electronics.

So I've thought of a way to make a truely progressive suspension and and just checking to see what people think and for those engineers out there would it work?

My thought is this, and if it works and anybody produces it after reading I expect some royalties (or at least to be in on the design process :D )

Take your typical shock off road shocks and replace the plastic damper with a high energy magnet (nyodeum? I know the spelling is way off) that would take the place of the plastic damper and would have the damping holes and such in typical stock sizes. Then place a second magnet at the top of the damper (very easy to do on a set of associated shocks). Set the two magnets so that the magnets repel themselves as they get closer to each other.

The aluminum shafts shouldn't cause any problems as aluminum doesn't really have magnetic properties.

With this set up as the damper approached the other magnet the resistance would go up which would help a lot with bottoming out and give a true progressive compression stroke.

The rebound stroke would take a little work as it would be faster rebounding from the top, but that may not be that bad since it would slow down as the shock extended. You might be able to do a reverse RPM damper with a plastic insert that would increase rebound damping to slow down the rebound stroke compared to the compression stroke.

It would be a somewhat expensive set of dampers, but shouldn't be too expensive considering what we are paying for in these cars anyway.

So what do you think?

[egdinger]

Sounds interesting, but neodyum(sp?) magnets are very brittle and break easy, that would be one problem.

[InspGadgt]

Interesing idea and it might work as long as the magnets are strong enough to repel each other and counteract the attraction of the shock shaft...the shock shaft is steel not aluminum. Though you could fix that by changing to titanium shock shafts.

I believe Paragon used to make a progressive piston setup allready. You might want to find a set of them first as that would be easier to do. They used a tapered pin through the piston hole to change the dampening as the shock compressed...no problems with rebound there.

[RichieRich]

Interesing idea and it might work as long as the magnets are strong enough to repel each other and counteract the attraction of the shock shaft...the shock shaft is steel not aluminum. Though you could fix that by changing to titanium shock shafts.

I believe Paragon used to make a progressive piston setup allready. You might want to find a set of them first as that would be easier to do. They used a tapered pin through the piston hole to change the dampening as the shock compressed...no problems with rebound there.

I remember those Paragon sets. Do you know if anyone ever purchased them. It seemed like they came and went pretty fast. They only had small black and white adds at the back of the R/C mags.

[TRF Drive Hard]

Neodyum ;) btw, interesting concept...

[dub-c]

Wouldn't the magnets add a bunch of weight to the car though? Also would there be any interference between the magnetic field and the other electronics? It seems like an interesting idea though. Hopefully someone knowledgeable magnetics and r/c could add some insight.

[End Overend]

Thanks for the spelling help there :rolleyes:

The weight would be a minimal increase, but I don't know how it would effect the elecronics. My guess is not a whole lot considering the size of the magnets on the back of the buggies.

One of the concerns would be the brittleness of the magnets. That could maybe be worked out with some sort of coating.

I also wasn't concerned about the shock shafts being steel I was thinking about the shock bodies (the magnets wouldn't be attracted to them and cause friction in the damping)

I suppose if you could find magnets strong enough you could actually eliminate springs all together, but those would be some very stout magnets.

I think this idea would also work much better than progressive springs as the springs don't become nearly progressive enough at the end of the travel to prevent hard bottoming.

Anyway, just a thought I've been having.

Anybody else?

[mcquto]

Wouldn't you get the same basic result if when you built the shock, you filled it to capacity and tightened the cap without pushing the piston in first? Then the shock would have so much oil in it the pressure would increase as the shock was compressed. The amount of pressure increase would be proportional with the amount of air you chose to leave in the shock. Under light loads it would damper as it should, but under a hard landing for instance, it would increase resistance as it was compressed.

[InspGadgt]

End...there's a slot car that uses magnets for it's rear suspension :) would be a lot harder though to do that with a RC car.

mcquto, That would put too much pressure on the shock seals and you'd end up with a blowout or busted seal. And it would be impossible to get it consistantly the same on all 4 shocks.

I don't think anyone bought out the Paragon design or the company as I havn't seen any of their product rebranded. Too bad too because they had some great stuff.

[Interstate]

Neodymium is the word you're all looking for.

Neodymium-Iron-Boron magnets are some of the strongest known to man. (besides electro-magnets) And are usually coated with nickel to give them strength, but are still brittle. A 1 inch, by 1 inch, by 1/8 inch will lift something in the vacinity of 150 lbs.

It seems to me though that having magnets and a travel limiter of sorts would create a pogo stick affect.

[OptimaMan]

What your idea will do is simply provide more progressive SPRING rate - and not progressive dampening. You can simply buy progressive springs that do exactly the same thing - they look like springs except some parts of the coils are closer together and the other side, the coils are farther apart.

What you need is variable dampening - such as those shocks made for the emaxx.

years ago, another company made a very simple thing to retrofit existing shocks. It was a very skinny tapered plastic rod that you simply put through the hole in the shock piston. At full extension, the piston was almost unobstucted, as you compressed the shock, the little rod got thicker and thicker making the piston hole smaller and smaller and making the dampening truly progressive... never caught on though.

Cool idea though - I believe Mercedes or Cadillac has already made electromechanical shocks. The piston is a big magnet and it actually has coils in the body to dampen. They also have shock oil that is "magnetic" and with the application of a magnetic field or electricity, the oil actually thickens and can be another way to make shock travel more progressive.

[InspGadgt]

years ago, another company made a very simple thing to retrofit existing shocks. It was a very skinny tapered plastic rod that you simply put through the hole in the shock piston. At full extension, the piston was almost unobstucted, as you compressed the shock, the little rod got thicker and thicker making the piston hole smaller and smaller and making the dampening truly progressive... never caught on though.

That's the Paragon set we were talking about further up in the thread.

[mooey1232003]

i also thought before and i havent tried it with magnets i thought about trieing it with lego magnets.and to adjust the shocks you get stronger or weaker magnets. End Overend i think you should make the shock and if it works pattent it and then sell them. if your idea works you could make some money :eek:

[rcguy2477]

recently for a school project i did this exact same design. I added some things though. Hopefully this sketch works.... The first one in inside and second is outside. The red and black things are magnetic collars to adjust the strength of the magnetic field at different locations. The blue thing on the bottom is just a seal. Otherwise, its very simular to a normal shock.

[mooey1232003]

did you make the shock? how did it work?

[NPedeInsanity]

Neodymium is the word you're all looking for.

Neodymium-Iron-Boron magnets are some of the strongest known to man. (besides electro-magnets) And are usually coated with nickel to give them strength, but are still brittle. A 1 inch, by 1 inch, by 1/8 inch will lift something in the vacinity of 150 lbs.

It seems to me though that having magnets and a travel limiter of sorts would create a pogo stick affect.

Hmmm. . .pogo stick eh. . .We can make hopping lowriders!! :D

[rcguy2477]

did you make the shock? how did it work?
No i never made the shock. I would but i dont have strong enough magnets available

[FLYBOY7]

the compression damping on your off road buggy is already progressive... how?? the angle of the shock gives it progressive damping... the more you angle the shocks, the more progressive they will be (ie- softer during the initial part of the stroke, and firmer near botteming out)...

the manufactures, have the suspension pretty close to the ballpark right now... if you went with a lot more progressive set up, the suspension would be too soft in the early part of the stroke....

btw... the easiest way to accomplished more progressive damping (compression, rebound, low speed and high speed) is via variable internal damping or an external "cam"/"linkage" set up on the shocks... take a look at the motocross world for some excellent examples (very small and low weight)....

[AEcrazyT3]

Wouldnt it kind of cut down on ease of tuning? Changing the rates would be a pain. But it would be nice not to have to mess with shock fluid any more.. I always end up making a mess...

[E-MaxxDestroyer]

Instead of those plastic clip on preload collars, you could have clip on magnets for tuning... Just an idea.

'Destroyer

[rcguy2477]

The red and black things are magnetic collars to adjust the strength of the magnetic field at different locations.
Instead of those plastic clip on preload collars, you could have clip on magnets for tuning... Just an idea.

'Destroyer

Already thought of :cool: