DC 5-2.4 motor

[erickkr]

Hi guys,
I have a question about my Micro DC 5-2.4 motor that I got to put in my DAW PF-5 plane. Included in the package was a bag with what looks like 3 capacitors and a resistor, (but I don't think it's a resistor :confused: ). Along with these items was a confusing diagram showing what I presume is supposed to be the motor and these guys all attached to it. Two of those round, flattish capacitors, (?), have '104' imprinted on them, and the other one, (smaller), has '473' on it. The larger, resistor shaped gizmo says 'SR506', 'T101', and has a silver band at one end. I can't really make out what to do from their diagram. Can anyone clarify things for an electronic idiot :( ?
Thanks, Ken

[GWS4CEO]

Dear Ken,

GWS would like to see what you really have parts in hand and suggest you a correct linkage. For those parts are attached to reduce motor noise which may cause RX range shorter and servo jittering!

104 should solder to between motor case and "+" of motor, the other 104 should go on between case and "-" of motor. 473 are cross between "+" and "-".

I am not an American, never been educated in USA. Wish you can read my poor English and understand what I said. If any futher assistant needed, pls don't be hesitated to let me know. :D

[erickkr]

Thanks Lin. I have a little trouble understanding what you are saying sometimes, but most of the time you are as clear as some native born Americans :D
I still am not sure what to do, as the motor doesn't have any lugs on it. Is the red wire positive and the black negative?? Do I just solder to the case?? (It won't hurt anything inside??). What is the best method to route everything?? Seems like it will make kind of an awful blob of things to just hook everything right to the motor. If these things are always needed, why don't the manufacturers install them at the factory?? It would make a much neater package, and make for MUCH less headaches on our end :confused: Oh, BTW, what about the resistor thingy?
Thanks, Ken

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: Ken ]

[jberg]

Hi,

I use my DC5-2.4 without any additional capacitors and it works. I use only the JMP HF9 ESC with 133kHz (this is recommended for longer wiper life, though it it expensive).

The parts marked "104" are 1,0*10^4pF=10nF ceramic capacitors, the "473" marked one is a 4,7*10^3pF=4,7nF capacitor. Houng-Wen Lin is right with the wiring, but I doubt that it is really necessary.

The resistor-like part might be an inductance. I would expect that your wiring diagram says to put it into one of the motor wires. The reason could be to try make the motor fit for a regular (not high-frequency) ESC. I don't know if that might work.

I asked Mr. WES-Technik (walter.scholl@idnet.de) about this and he said that these motors do not need additional capacitors. I would be very careful with soldering to the case, as there are plastic parts that could melt.

[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: jberg ]

[GWS4CEO]

When GWS sell IPS, we did factory assembly the noise kill capacitor on motor pin. Its not so eazy, need a skill electronics technician to do it with right tool!

jberg is right. You may simplized omit this parts. because when we designed GWS motor for GWS servo, inside of motor already equipped with ring varistor to make noise reduced. You may just link a 104 between "+" and "-" at wires end. Many good RC power motor from GWS will less noise than TOY's motor! ;)

You will need a good quality sharp head 30W solder iron. If you can not do so, delete will be better choice than destroy you motor!
:D Most new ESC desined in high frequency will performance well even you did not add those add on parts.

[gjohnson]

There seems to be a common element here. I have been recommended to not use any additional capacitors on my coreless Firefly motor by John Worth. All my DC5-2.4 motors have thin wires already coming out the back. So, soldering additional capacitors to the case would be difficult and possibly damage it (e.g., Jochen). Can someone set me straight on this. For small coreless motors do we not need the capacitors that we are all used to soldering on our ferrite can "speed" type motors. What about the Faulber coreless motors that are larger than the DC5-2.4? Jochen, do you know the answer and why there might be less static from a coreless motor than a cored motor?
--Gordon

[jberg]

I use my Faulhaber 1524 without additional capacitors also. There are no problems. There are several possible reasons:

- These motors use very little current due to their very high efficiency. Electrical noise rises with the current.
- These motors have at least 5 poles with windings on the rotor instead of the 3 poles the cheap "can type" motors have, like the Speed xxx series and also the GWS motors. (Houng-Wen Lin, plesae note that I really mean "cheap" here and not "bad"). So only half of the supply voltage is switched at every gap of the alternator, which causes less noise.
- These motors have very low inductance which causes less energy loaded into the windings. This energy has to be forced the other way round when the wipers go to another section of the alternator ( I am searching for words here a bit, I hope you understand me :rolleyes: ). Less energy, less forcing, less noise.
- The wipers of these motors are of precious metal which conducts very good and is quite resistant against corrosion, so the contact between wiper and alternator is good. Less arcing, less noise. Besides that the alternator of the Faulhaber motors is treated with a special grease to reduce friction and stay smooth.

Hope that helps. Ken, do you have access to a scanner to scan the wiring diagram and post it here? Or draw it with M$ Paint (or similar) instead. It would help a lot to see it.

[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: jberg ]

[erickkr]

Jochen,
I don't know how to post an image here. I've scanned the diagram, but it is a .bmp file on my C: drive. I don't know how to turn it into a URL :o Sorry :(
If the electronic devices aren't really necessary, how come Wes-Technic included them with the motor? :confused:
Ken

[mcalicchia]

Ken,

I have 3 of the DC5-2.4 motors and none of them came with any capcitors nor did I install any capcitors. I have used these motors with different ESCs and have never had a problem. The motor is connected directly to the ESC with the attached wires. Hope this helps.

Mike

[jberg]

Originally posted by Ken:
Jochen,
I don't know how to post an image here. I've scanned the diagram, but it is a .bmp file on my C: drive. I don't know how to turn it into a URL :o Sorry :(
If the electronic devices aren't really necessary, how come Wes-Technic included them with the motor? :confused:
Ken

You can upload files following the directions at http://www.rcmicroflight.com/upload.asp .

Did you get the parts directly from WES-Technik? If not, then the parts might be added by your supplier. Maybe they are intended to help the motor if used with low-frequency ESC's (that are all but the JMP and Braun HF ESC's).

[rpage]

Originally posted by erickkr
If the electronic devices aren't really necessary, how come Wes-Technic included them with the motor? :confused:
Ken
I suspect someone between you and WES threw them in the bag by mistake. It would be quite a task to solder all 3 caps on. One between the 2 terminals would help if you have interference.
The "resistor" is a Shottky diode intended to recirculate the back EMF. (If you don't know what that means it doesn't matter ) The silver band must go to the positive. It isn't necessary on the 5-2.4 since the coreless motor has so little inductance. This indicates to me that these components were added by mistake.
However, keep them and use them on your next Speed 400.

Rick.

[erickkr]

Thanks guys for all the help. I think I'll just assume, (although, that's a trouble word;) ), that the components were inserted by mistake, and go ahead and use the motor without any mods.
Thanks again, Ken