Help - Getting Started

[riks]

I just do not underdstand. Like to get into flying electric but being new how does
one fly for more then 3 or 4 min with out a lot of charged up batt packs ready to be plugged in. And do they all have quick connectors (gold) for a quick change? At my retired age am facinated with park flyers.
Have built/flown free and u in the old days with OR 23's to 1/2A .049 U's.
thanks **** Scalone

[ifaberman]

Well...there are combos of planes and batteries that will fly longer. One of mine does about 15 min, but you guessed it. multiple packs and fast field chargers. That's how we do it.

[riks]

Thanks Quaker but I read about slow chargers 1. do fast field carge degrade batt?
2. do batts all have quick disconnects?
OK I'll buy and get to it.
**** :)

[jimwalker]

**** ,

It depends on what type of batteries you are charging and their capacity. Nicads are very durable and can take a lot of abuse without degrading. Nickel metal hydride batteries are the new wave and will double your flight time. They are much more touchy though and the jury is still out on the best way to charge the smallest of the NIMH type cells. The larger capacities such as 600 mah and above are fairly durable.

Weight is a concern with all slow flyers so most use light connectors. I personally use the smallest version of Dean's 2 pin connectors that weigh only a couple of grams. Some of the indoor guys are using connectors even lighter than that, but they are more expensive as well. Most people do put a connector between the battery and the electronic speed control so a person can switch packs and/or field charge the pack more conveniently. On larger models some people incorporate a charging circuit alongside the on/off switch circuit. It is a simple circuit that eliminates the need to unplug the battery, but it does add weight and most prefer to just unplug a connector. The motor output wires are usually soldered directly to the motor to save weight.

Hope this helps and don't hesitate to ask any more questions.

[riks]

Thanks Jim am thinking about how simple it was along time a go, just using a Cox .049
didnt need to know HP or Torgue etc. Oh well I'll probably get into it but it sometimes seem that this micro flight is becoming a teckys paradise. But am lookng for a very simple top/rear mounted motor about 4/5 oz/ft/sq outfit with out a V tail.
Will start the process soon and thanks for the help.
**** Scalone
:)

[gjohnson]

Something to think about. In the 350-600mAh battery capacity range, if you were flying continuously two-three packs would probably allow you to always have one fast charging in the field while flying with one of the other two. So you could almost fly all day, landing just long enough to swap battery packs. Few people seem to need to fly this long, but you could.

Give some thought to what plane you start with. For example, if you choose a Speed 280 plane with say 7x350 cell packs, and if your next plane is a similar powered plane, you can spread your investment in battery packs over two or more planes. If you get a speed 400 plane with say a recommended 8x600 then a second plane with the same recommendation could use the same pack. So, some planning helps keep you from having to buy too many packs. Of course, variety is the spice of life, but in this case the cost is proliforation of cell pack varieties in your flight box.

Check out Hobby-Lobby.com and NESAIL.com for a good assortment of park/slowflyers and recommended battery packs. You can get an idea what your second and third plane might be and then make your first decision based partially on that. Call either of these companies and they will give you lots of good advice.

Also check out the GWS planes (horizonhobby.com). I haven't researched them extensively, but you may find that depending on which battery pack you choose for one of the "stick" planes you can use it again for one of their new fuselage planes (e.g., the new biplane). In terms of the stik planes, many people fly them with more cells and larger capicitiy cells than GWS suggests. So, going up in cell count for a stik may allow you to to insure that that battery pack can be used in one of their fuselage planes down the road.

The bottom line, you can avoid having lots of different flavors of battery packs and then take two or three to the flying field with you, no matter which plane you want to fly (also helps if one is being repaired and you are flying the other in the meantime, I know a lot about this).

--Gordon

[riks]

Well why is a litestik a favoite beginers olane when it needs a smooth runway and landing space. I have a 5 acre mowed grass field and the lite stick is not going to do a smooth lading on grass. I lke the stik but think a rear motor would be best. So would like a recomendation for a plane that can land on my grass field and have gear that I can tranfer to another plane. price is not a big problem.
**** Scalone

[Overhaul]

You might want to consider a Zagi foam flying wing for getting started in electrics. I hear it's nearly impossible to break and it's easily upgradeable to a more sporty design.
I have just finished a Duskstik, and it is very cool.

[gjohnson]

The Lite Stik is a favorite because it is cheap, GWS had cheap flight packs for it, and it can be easily modified (a favorite pastime it seems for many of us), and it can be flown indoors.

Look at the Firebird and Firebird XL (written up in August RC Microflight) for pushers. Also, look at Wingo and Poppy (both pushers)and from either nesail.com or hobby-lobby.com. These are speed 400 planes with no gearbox (although gearboxes are optional). The advantage over the Firebird is that you could easily transfer your radio gear to other planes and your battery packs could be used on other speed 400 planes. Finally, the Wingo and copies have an open cockpit that some people rig Cannon Elf or other cameras into (Hobby Lobby has a kit for this) and take aerial photos. See http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingophoto.htm

By the way, I envy your 5-acre mowed field. I live on a slight hill on a culdesac. My landing approach is between two trees, over my front bank, and then onto my slightly upward sloping driveway!

--Gordon

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: gjohnson ]

[riks]

I think see the Firebird and the Toytronics
E-GULL RTF are the same plane -even the same color? The Topy woeighs 8 oz and with a 30 inch wingspan the wing loadong may be a bit higher then a beginner can handle. it seems to me.
****

[gjohnson]

Call Sal at Northeast Sailplane or the tech guy at Hobby Lobby. I've never flown a Wingo or any of the copies. So, I can't comment on whether its 7.2oz/sqft wing loading is too high for a beginner. They will know the answer. You say you want a pusher. Well, there aren't as many of those out there. I got my 78 year old dad a Teddy (sold by Nesail) since it's a pusher. I couldn't get him to take the Wingo. Now, he wishes he had gone with the Wingo because it has landing gear.

I learned to fly with a Dragonfly (sold by Nesail and others). It has a very light wing loading at 5oz/sqft, and has undercambered wings. However, it is not a pusher and the landing gear tends to go south on the first flight (I've seen posts on the Ezone where other people have similar experiences). It's a good slow flying plane, but has a weak landing gear and motor mount (common problems for beginners to destroy). I ended up making a much stronger motor mount and a stronger mounting for the landing gear that is rubber banded on and folds back in a bad landing. After crashing it a lot, it still flies better than my Lite Stik. A Lite Stick is best landed with at least some power on. The Dragonfly glides extremely well and you almost have a hard time getting it down. I routinely glide mine in for landings with the motor off.

So, there you have it. You pays your money and takes your choice. Just keep in mind that you will crash whatever you get a lot until you get the hang of it. It makes sense to have an easily repairable plane that you aren't particularly attached to for learning purposes.

--Gordon

[ 07-30-2001: Message edited by: gjohnson ]

[jimwalker]

I agree with gjohnson for whatever it's worth. Plan on your first plane ending up in the trash. Because of this reality, my first plane after 15 years was a Lite-Stik. It's cheap and I wasn't attached to it since it went together in a couple of evenings. I could tool around barely missing obstacles and land hard with the confidence of knowing it was only $27 and no personal investment getting banged up.

After about flight 25 I made a fatal error and destroyed it beyond repair. However I had all the equipment intact and lots of goodies for the junk box (just used them to make Allan Wright's guided mite for around $10). Didn't shed a tear and felt confident for the first time in my life to fly a "real" plane.

I got a Northeast Sailplanes Virus. I highly recommend it for your first or second plane.

Good Luck!

[pease1]

Something good about putting gear in the mite (under $10 worth of balsa and parts) and flying it. Total time less than a week of evenings to build so emotional investment is just slightly over a LS.

I trashed 2 this weekend trying to fly in insane winds. No tears shed. New wings on the building board already.

Definately plan to pile in a couple models before you get something you care about.

Al

[riks]

MITE?? What is the Mite?
But anyway thanks for the info . probably will by a Stick and gear and am aware the fatalty rate will be quite high - so?
Thanks but a MITE? ****

[jimwalker]

Read this topic if you're interested in the "mite" we're talking about...

Guided Emite (http://www.rcmicroflight.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000061)

[flyingbuddy]

Richard, (because your nickname becomes asterisks)
I just recently discovered this:
Scoll down to the bottom of the page and click on the box next to "Hop To," then click on "Post Your Micro Flyer Photos," then click "Go."
Do the same for the other forums.

I would like to add for consideration, the Spyder Moth from Composite Model Works at http://www.compositemodelworks.com/
See the videos that are on the site.
It meets all of your requirements, plus it can handle a breeze, loop (unlike a Litestik,) and bounce without breaking.
I would recommend for either Litestik or Spyder Moth, the GFS speed control (ESC)(http://www.siriuselectronics.com/#Products) or the Pixie 7P Programmable ESC(http://www.castlerc.com/pixie7.html)
the GWS Pico flight pack with that darling little receiver, a couple of 8 cell 120 or 280mAh NiMH battery packs from John Worth (http://www.rcmicroflight.com/cloud9rc/) and David Lewis (http://www.homefly.com/)
and a Sirius 100 or Bob Selman charger (http://www.janics.com/~bselman/)
Also, take a look at the other forums for postings on batteries, motors etc.. I put one up today about Tadiran Lithium Metal cells.

Gordon, I'm ashamed of you for not pointing out that he should go to http://www.nyblimp.com/
then look under the Articles column and click on The Famous Litestik Page.
BTW, see Gabe's new folding prop for the GWS motor! :)

[flyingbuddy]

Update: Peter at Composite Model Works has moved and the new phone number is 760-446-2534 for evening phone calls.

[flyingbuddy]

Richard,
I presume that you know that you can click directly on the web sites that are listed in the postings above and get right to them.

[riks]

Thnaks John, but do not want a front engine machine--I'd like to find a Firebird or type with a rudder/stab instead of a V-tail. I like its simplicity and no wheels and I can be the lone trainer. Of course if I can't find same I'll go with the bird. I know of 4 chaps who are not into this hobby/sport who will be when I get into it. 2 of then were my pit crew when I was racing my home built Mercury outboard H modified sport car and the other two are cash rich and hobby poor. Well actually they all are. So at least its a pusher and won't have to worry to much about bending motor shafts. Would like to know if a V-tail tho will give me some practice in coordnination,..suppose it will. Engine for up/down and left right for turns. I guess!
**** Scalone

[riks]

John saw the flying wing not interested.
Like a standard config as I've said..real tail 1st, V 2nd. **** Scalone

[gjohnson]

John,
My error on NY Blimp, should have remembered since I recently got some things from Gabe. I was focusing on pusher. Funny how the internet opens it all up. Two years ago all I knew was Hobby Lobby and Northeast Sailplane. As one gets into this hobby more all sorts of specialty vendors such as Gabe, Todd Long, Dave Lewis, John Worth, Bob Sellman, and others become much more important in order to put together really good planes.
--Gordon

[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: gjohnson ]

[flyingbuddy]

Gordon, I totally agree.
It's guys like them who help to keep this hobby on its toes. Todd Long probably does as much business as the rest of them combined, yet he says that he only spends a few hours a day on his business, after he gets home from work. These guys obviously do it for the love of the hobby.

[riks]

Well everyone who helped me thanks a lot!!
But I think I'm hooked. Just bought a Firebird - figured what the heck 120 bucks and lets see what its all about. Went out this afternoon on a 5 acre lawn, two trees at either end but a bunch of wind!!. Hey
lets go anyway. Into the wind, full on - oh I fogot I glided first for a little trim any way full on, up it went, and one turn but the wind and down it came? Luckily all the rubber bands were right handy, any way ran the battery out and had a ball -- I'm flying??
Thanks again for all your input **** Scalone

:)